General Malaise
Footballguy
WHAT A BUNCH OF CLOWNS!!!!!!
They should have armed themselves.
I'll see myself out.
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The 100 Greatest movies of the 1990s 7. Hoop Dreams (119 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
WHAT A BUNCH OF CLOWNS!!!!!!
They should have armed themselves.
I'll see myself out.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Listen here, chucklebutt - you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall. You were soiling diapers when this masterpiece came out. You're out of your element, out of your depth and I'd just prefer you say thank you to me and carry on about your day with the freedom I've provided you.
BLOCKED_PUNT
Footballguy
All this talk of Kevin Spacey, whom I like as an actor, made me think of another Spacey movie that an 18 year old BP liked, The Life of David Gale. I'm interested in rewatching this since when I looked it up and the critics, at least on RT, HATED this thing. It has a 19% but has a 7.5 on IMDB and a 81% on RT so my fellow peons liked this. I assume since this isn't a comedy @KarmaPolice agrees with them that this movie blows.
TripItUp
Footballguy
IMHO, one of the more under recognized films of the decade. To me this film is a piece of art. Excellent acting, writing, cinematography. Could rank it top 10 without much pushback from me.
Trip's Official Ruling: Appropriately Ranked
TripItUp
Footballguy
Everybody knows the movie(except maybe Shuke who doesn't watch bangers)
When I was in law school it was probably the most quoted film. I actually think it's one of Cruise's better performances and Demi Moore was better than I expected. I thought Bacon was miscast. It has its flaws, particularly the writing is a little lazy/cliche at times but overall one of the bettre films of the decade.
Trip's Official Ruling: Appropriately Ranked
BLOCKED_PUNT
Footballguy
looks like they made a tv series based on it
Zow
Footballguy
Wonderful movie. This and another movie (which may make this list so I won't spotlight it) are the two most accurate lawyer/courtroom movies ever made. Some thoughts and observations:
1. The relationship between Cruise and Bacon's characters is very realistic. Prosecutors and defense attorneys get to know each other in similar ways and the way they talk is relatively close - even down to the frustration with the "you're a lousy softball player, Jack!" Very well done.
2. Similarly, Cruise's relationship with Dawson is very realistic - particularly Dawson's disdain and lack of appreciation for Caffey and Caffey's perhaps initial disregard from the gravity of Dawson's job. As a defense attorney myself, the scene where Caffey goes off on Dawson for Dawson being entirely unimpressed for the offer Caffey worked hard to get him strikes a chord because I've had similar conversations (I once threw my briefcase against a wall in frustration when, after some damn good legal work and negotiations with a workable prosecutor, I got my client a misdemeanor and no jail for a crime he was facing 20 years for and the client literally had the audacity to complain about the offer and that I was part of "railroading" him).
3. Dawson and Downey should have taken the plea and Cruise was 100% right to advise them to accept it. They also were arguably guilty of some of the more serious charges. I liked that they were found guilty and dishonorably discharged at the end as I believe that was a realistic outcome.
4. Moore's character is annoying but she realistically portrays the book smart new defense attorney still doe-eyed about fundamental justice who doesn't yet understand how to pragmatically approach a case or trial. The "strenuously object scene slays me because I have watched actual lawyers make a similar objection and get the same result.
5. The courtroom scenes are realistic. Well done by the director/producers.
6. The late evening strategy sessions... *chef's kiss*
About the only unrealistic depiction in the movie is that Caffey has no other cases and the trial is set super quickly (in state courts no chance this gets tried within 6 months of the incident and I don't believe military trials are much different). I get that that had to happen though to keep the movie going.
Zow
Footballguy
The tension between the lawyer and the high ranking official is great. I got that tension a lot when I was younger when a law enforcement lieutenant or some similarly high ranking officer would have to subject himself to my questions while his disdain for me and what I do is obvious.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yes although there were obviously several years between them and it wasn’t like he married them right out after school or anything. He was older when I knew him but I believe his 2nd marriage lasted a long time like 15-20 years. When he married his 3rd formers student. He was like 30 years her senior. But she was graduated from college, full time working adult, etc when they got together so while it’s weird, they were full on adults.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I went to High School with a kid named David Cox. He was in the same grade as me. After he graduated high school he went into the Marines. He was eventually stationed at Guantanamo Bay.
It was his direct group that got caught up in the code red. In the real instance, the marine they terrorized did not die but was severely injured. The group who hazed, including Cox, all got court martialed. All but three of the marines took a plea and left with a dishonorable discharge. Cox and two others went through with the full court case and were able to prove they were following orders. He was convicted of simple assault but was allowed to stay in the marines.
Aaron Sorkin obtained the court records from which he then wrote A Few Good Men even though he and the film company have denied that this was based on a true story.
Many years later, when the movie came out, Cox was out of the marines and back living here in Mass and was very upset because the character of Louden Downy (the dumb white hick) seemed to be loosely based on him. He got upset enough to publicly declare he was going to sue Castle Rock Entertainment.
A few months later in January, he went missing. Months later in April, his body was found after the snow had melted. He had been murdered by 4 gun shot wounds. One to the back of his neck, and three to his torso. The extra interesting part was what he was wearing which was his marine jacket, which his family said he never wore even once after he got out of the marines years earlier.
The murder has never been solved even after the tv show Unsolved Murders featured his demise.
It was his direct group that got caught up in the code red. In the real instance, the marine they terrorized did not die but was severely injured. The group who hazed, including Cox, all got court martialed. All but three of the marines took a plea and left with a dishonorable discharge. Cox and two others went through with the full court case and were able to prove they were following orders. He was convicted of simple assault but was allowed to stay in the marines.
Aaron Sorkin obtained the court records from which he then wrote A Few Good Men even though he and the film company have denied that this was based on a true story.
Many years later, when the movie came out, Cox was out of the marines and back living here in Mass and was very upset because the character of Louden Downy (the dumb white hick) seemed to be loosely based on him. He got upset enough to publicly declare he was going to sue Castle Rock Entertainment.
A few months later in January, he went missing. Months later in April, his body was found after the snow had melted. He had been murdered by 4 gun shot wounds. One to the back of his neck, and three to his torso. The extra interesting part was what he was wearing which was his marine jacket, which his family said he never wore even once after he got out of the marines years earlier.
The murder has never been solved even after the tv show Unsolved Murders featured his demise.
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Holy **** man…..that’s insane.
BLOCKED_PUNT
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Can’t really argue with that
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
That was my thought as well. I was expecting more of a make-up award for somebody who hadn't won but should have previously.
dgreen
Footballguy
Because he's not as intimidating? He doesn't come off as someone who would try to hurt someone?
FarFromHome
Footballguy
That's how I feel. They went the good ol mamas boy approach for sympathy votes. Or. It's just racism. Ha ha
dgreen
Footballguy
I'm not sure if the movie intended us to think of the race angle, but, yeah...big, angry, black guy vs small, calm, white guy. Downey was just following orders. Dawson was following orders, but comes off as someone who would have agreed with the orders that Santiago needed to be disciplined in a severe way for the good of the unit.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
In re-reading about it last night I saw that his body was found only one town over from where I currently live now. Very spooky. The family feels he was executed as there was no robbery motive. His wallet was found on him and still had all his cash on him.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I feel like Supporting Actor is one that they actually do a very good job with. You go down the line through the whole history and I don’t see many total blunders. The 90s winners were really good
Joe Pesci , Jack Parlance, Gene Hackman, Tommy Lee Jones, Martin Landau, Kevin Spacey, Cuba Gooding, Robin Williams, James Coburn, Michael Caine.
They aren’t batting 1000 but it’s a very good group. I would probably only make 2 changes.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I guess, but the defense wasn't denying that they did it. They had to know Downey was vulnerable (Bacon's character certainly did). And his prep session didn't go well.
I'm just a doofus and not a lawyer, but I'd have put Dawson up there. He would have told the truth. Then let the chips fall where they may.
I get the reason why the writers did it this way, but it always bugged me from a Watsonian perspective.
Zow
Footballguy
Well, the best answer is probably that that made for the best movie scene.
That said, I could see a few reasons:
1. Dawson clearly drank the intense marine Kool-Aid and probably would have come off poorly to the jury - especially if he's all icy with his attorney. The movie didn't really touch on the makeup of the jury, but it's plausible that maybe it was made up of non-combat service members who may not understand and therefore not appreciate the intensity of a Dawson.
2. As mentioned above, Downey seems more likeable and innocent. Given that they both received the order (at least that's what the lawyers thought in prep) they didn't need to both go up there if Downey mentions the fact already. Cruise had also already basically established the second meeting after the first meeting where the unit was told not to touch Santiago and he did a good job with cross of Sutherland's character where maybe he included if Downey's testimony went well that Dawson wasn't needed. Oftentimes in a trial, less is more.
3. The most realistic reason is that Dawson chose not to testify. In a criminal proceeding, there are two decisions left solely to the discretion of a defendant: whether to accept a plea agreement and whether to waive the right to remain silent and testify. In other words, lawyers don't really get to decide whether to put their clients up on the stand. Now, realistically, if a lawyer and his client have a good relationship the lawyer can usually give advice as to whether it is a good idea for the defendant to testify (or as is often the case whether his testimony is necessary to prove their theory of defense) and the client listens but that decision is ultimately up to the defendant. Personally, I always try to tread lightly (though I did recently advise a particularly difficult client that if he goes to trial and testifies and is himself that the jury will hate him and he will lose) with this though as it is my client's right to make the decision and I may be eroding that right if I come off too strong Here, while the movie didn't show it, it could just be that Dawson decided not to and Cruise was okay with that decision whereas Moore's character (who does overstep at times during the movie) convinced Downey to testify and thought she could prep him adequately.
To me, after Downey's testimony that he wasn't in the room when Dawson got the order, if the risky cross of Nicholson didn't go very far I probably would have advised Dawson that his testimony was necessary to establish that he was given an order and he can choose not to testify but that an unfavorable verdict is very likely if he doesn't testify.
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timschochet
Footballguy
20. Toy Story (1995)
Directed by: John Lasseter
Featuring the voices of: Tim Allen, Tom Hanks, Annie Potts
Synopsis: Woody and Buzz Lightyear compete to be Andy’s favorite toy.
Excuse me, I think the word you’re looking for is “space ranger” - Tim Allen as Buzz Lightyear
The other day someone expressed the hope that there wouldn’t be any more animated films on this list. Sorry about that but relax this is the last one! It’s also, in the golden age of animated movies (the 1990s) the best one, the first Pixar film, and a family classic to rival all time great children’s films like Pinocchio, The Wizard of Oz, Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, and E.T. The Extraterrestrial. Yes I think it’s that’s good and deserves to be in such august company.
What makes it so great is the depth of the characters, and their interaction, and the timelessness of the story.
Directed by: John Lasseter
Featuring the voices of: Tim Allen, Tom Hanks, Annie Potts
Synopsis: Woody and Buzz Lightyear compete to be Andy’s favorite toy.
Excuse me, I think the word you’re looking for is “space ranger” - Tim Allen as Buzz Lightyear
The other day someone expressed the hope that there wouldn’t be any more animated films on this list. Sorry about that but relax this is the last one! It’s also, in the golden age of animated movies (the 1990s) the best one, the first Pixar film, and a family classic to rival all time great children’s films like Pinocchio, The Wizard of Oz, Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, and E.T. The Extraterrestrial. Yes I think it’s that’s good and deserves to be in such august company.
What makes it so great is the depth of the characters, and their interaction, and the timelessness of the story.
Mr. Mojo
Footballguy
I agree with your comments. Hackman was great in Unforgiven so he was also deserving.
I just think it's ironic that Jack's best role didn't win when he won so many other times.
But I will argue until the end that Osment should have won for The Sixth Sense instead of Caine. Nothing against Caine, but it's the best kid performance I've ever seen.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I would not disagree one bit. Toy Story is an amazing accomplishment - both in technology and in storytelling.
"The word I'm searching for - I can't say, because there's preschool toys present."
And would someone please tell me that it's not really 30 years old? Where does the time go?
Softballguy
Footballguy
While not my favorite movie, it is easily the movie I am least likely to turn off when I see it on TV. Has been since the first time I saw it in the theater.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Username checks out.
Uh oh........Trip is going to have a conniption
zamboni
Footballguy
To infinity and beyond
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
It takes a pretty black heart to not like that movie.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I think trip was Syd next door.
But it's animated so it can't be good.......
In general I don't rush out for animated movies but there are a handful that worth it for sure. Shrek, Toy Story, Shark Tale, Aladdin, Monsters Inc, are a few off the top of my head. Definitely needs to have some subtle adult humor to bump it to great level for me.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
He is a sad strange little man and has my pity.I think trip was Syd next door.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Toy Story deserves its place. With it being revealed as the last animated film on the list, and there were a lot of great ones in the 90s included here, I feel like Princess Mononoke should have gotten a spot alongside the others.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I agree on Caine. Especially since Caine already had one Oscar. I would also have chosen Jude Law of Talented Mr Ripley over Caine that year. But overall solid decade.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Of course I think the Gooding one is terrible. Much better options that year.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Good call there as well. IMO THIS is the bigger whiff.
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
Let's all hope GM's edible has kicked in before he replies.
Princess Mononoke is brilliant! It was my introduction to Studio Ghibli and Hayao Miazaki and what a wonderful journey it was to follow his masterpieces of animation. Rivals(and surpasses, imo) Disney's run in the mid-1900's. Just awesome stuff.
Zow
Footballguy
Huh, then we should congratulate Trip on his retirement from the Saints.I think trip was Syd next door.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I think it’s a perfectly good choice but Ed Norton and William H Macy would also have been stellar choices.
Dennis Castro
Footballguy
Same here. I’ve probably seen the ending 25-30 times. The beginning? Maybe twice.
BlackCrowes
Footballguy
i´d like to request that it be i who am assigned....
zamboni
Footballguy
Agreed. Sometimes I forget that there was an actual actor playing Santiago.
timschochet
Footballguy
19. American History X (1998)
Directed by: Tony Kaye
Starring: Edward Norton, Edward Furlong, Fairuza Balk
Synopsis: White teenagers in Los Angeles join a Neo-Nazi movement.
Hate is baggage. Life’s too short to be pissed off all the time. - Edward Furlong as Danny
Great movie that explores a subject which is just as relevant today, perhaps more so, as it was 27 years ago. Ed Norton is masterful in this role, so is Furlong (though I know he seems to annoy some people.) The rest of the cast is outstanding as well, particularly the big kid who also appeared in Remember The Titans (Ethan Suplee). Excellent drama.
Directed by: Tony Kaye
Starring: Edward Norton, Edward Furlong, Fairuza Balk
Synopsis: White teenagers in Los Angeles join a Neo-Nazi movement.
Hate is baggage. Life’s too short to be pissed off all the time. - Edward Furlong as Danny
Great movie that explores a subject which is just as relevant today, perhaps more so, as it was 27 years ago. Ed Norton is masterful in this role, so is Furlong (though I know he seems to annoy some people.) The rest of the cast is outstanding as well, particularly the big kid who also appeared in Remember The Titans (Ethan Suplee). Excellent drama.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
zamboni
Footballguy
A big favorite of mine - thought it might rank a bit higher but no quibbles. Norton absolutely knocked it out of the park as Derek (that look on his face when he was being cuffed by the police - chef's kiss), and Furlong and Avery Brooks were also extremely good. An extremely poignant look at racial relations that is indeed highly relevant to this day. Powerhouse film.
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