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The 2009 K Thread (2 Viewers)

RT @dcsportsbog: Shaun Suisham departs as the most accurate field goal kicker in Washington Redskins history. That's bizarre. about 4 hours ago from TweetDeck

RT @Kornblue: 1 year ago today, Graham Gano was honored at the Groza Kicker of the Year banquet; today, he was signed by the Redskins! about 4 hours ago from TweetDeck

RT @kicker34: Selection committee to vote for 2009 Fred Mitchell Award winner on Friday. http://bit.ly/6RChw2 about 5 hours ago from TweetDeck

 
Ex-kicker Tony Franklin: Hold off on ripping Dallas Cowbots punter/holder Mat McBriar http://bit.ly/7bjyjH #NFL 3 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Dallas Cowboys must fix whatever is holding field goal operation back http://bit.ly/7kttIl #NFL 4 minutes ago from TweetDeck

San Francisco 49ers punter Andy Lee conquers elements to be Mr. Reliable http://bit.ly/5qxXTx #NFL 8 minutes ago from TweetDeck

RT @fbguys: Baltimore Sun, reports Baltimore Ravens PK Billy Cundiff suffered a concussion on opening kickoff Week 13 http://bit.ly/4uqpHS 8 minutes ago from TweetDeck

"Unfortunately, this seems to be the life of a kicker." - Shaun Suisham #NFL http://bit.ly/8ovOID about 10 hours ago from TweetDec

 
I'm not saying Hartley isn't a good late season pick up, but isn't the 'grab the kicker from the best offense' sentiment a little overstated? I mean, under most scoring systems, you want a kicker who will drill FGs, not extra points, as they score more in fantasy. While a great offense will obviously give you more opportunities to get points of any kind out of your kicker, there will be games when the Saints are too efficient in the opposition half and just pile on TDs. In that week, a guy who plays on a decent but unspectacular offense that often has to settle for FGs might score better if he kicks 3 or 4 of those. I'm just saying....it's still a crapshoot.

 
RushHour said:
I'm not saying Hartley isn't a good late season pick up, but isn't the 'grab the kicker from the best offense' sentiment a little overstated? I mean, under most scoring systems, you want a kicker who will drill FGs, not extra points, as they score more in fantasy. While a great offense will obviously give you more opportunities to get points of any kind out of your kicker, there will be games when the Saints are too efficient in the opposition half and just pile on TDs. In that week, a guy who plays on a decent but unspectacular offense that often has to settle for FGs might score better if he kicks 3 or 4 of those. I'm just saying....it's still a crapshoot.
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No. Field goals are unpredictable. If the Saints offense is too efficient and Hartley gets no field goal opps, he still has 4-5 fantasy points from the extra points.

If another kicker gets shut out of field goal opps, he may get just one or two fantasy points. Either way, the Saints are going to make far more trips to field goal territory than the other kicker. Throw in the fact that Hartley is in a dome for Weeks 14, 15, & 16, and it only gets better. Kickers see their production fall off significantly in December because of the elements. Having a dome kicker in an explosive offense means much more in the fantasy playoffs than it does in the first month of the season.

 
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Fear & Loathing said:
RushHour said:
I'm not saying Hartley isn't a good late season pick up, but isn't the 'grab the kicker from the best offense' sentiment a little overstated? I mean, under most scoring systems, you want a kicker who will drill FGs, not extra points, as they score more in fantasy. While a great offense will obviously give you more opportunities to get points of any kind out of your kicker, there will be games when the Saints are too efficient in the opposition half and just pile on TDs. In that week, a guy who plays on a decent but unspectacular offense that often has to settle for FGs might score better if he kicks 3 or 4 of those. I'm just saying....it's still a crapshoot.
Click to expand...
No. Field goals are unpredictable. If the Saints offense is too efficient and Hartley gets no field goal opps, he still has 4-5 fantasy points from the extra points.

If another kicker gets shut out of field goal opps, he may get just one or two fantasy points. Either way, the Saints are going to make far more trips to field goal territory than the other kicker. Throw in the fact that Hartley is in a dome for Weeks 14, 15, & 16, and it only gets better. Kickers see their production fall off significant in December because of the elements. Having a dome kicker in an explosive means much in the fantasy playoffs than it does in the first month of the season.
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Some possibly related statistics:73% of top five kickers came from top ten scoring offenses, while 60% came from top ten yardage offenses.

LINK

 
I've had several inquiries on my thoughts on whether Hartley is definitely the Saints kicker from here on out...

While Hartley would be the choice that makes sense to everyone outside of the organization, I'm very wary until the Saints actually release Carney. There is several years of Saints kicking history that could still be factoring into their decisions (now and in the weeks to come).

 
Thanks as always for the info - a few folks will win championships based on this thread I am sure :shrug:

Thought about this during the Bengals game and was wondering if you had thoughts/analysis on it. How much of an anomaly is Jason Hanson??!? I thought it was pretty common for kickers to lose a little bit of their distance on their kicks as they get older (Hanson is 39) but Hanson certainly seems to be the exception as he narrowly missed a 55-yarder against my Who Deys that hit the crossbar and bounced out.

If this guy was on better teams throughout his career I'm wondering if he'd get the due props as one of the best that's ever played.

If there's a record for 50+ field goals after age 35 I'm sure this guy holds it.

-QG

 
I know several people have asked for the status of the NO kicking situation, so...

New Orleans Saints will stick with Garrett Hartley at kicker, for now

By Mike Triplett, The Times-Picayune

December 09, 2009, 7:59PM

Saints Coach Sean Payton said he plans to stick with Garrett Hartley at kicker - for this week, at least - after the second-year pro performed well in his 2009 debut at Washington last week. But veteran John Carney remains on the roster, so the Saints apparently have not made a permanent decision.

"I think the two of them have really done a good job of handling this and working with each other," Payton said.

In fact, Hartley said it was Carney who first informed him that he was going to be activated for the Washington game last Saturday morning.

"That meant a lot," Hartley said. "John just came up to me, looked me right in my eyes and said, 'You're in.' I said, 'Don't mess with me, man.'

"It's been a roller coaster ride emotionally with the (four-game) suspension and then coming back and being inactive and family and friends trying to keep me up through everything. And he said, 'I wouldn't mess with you with something this serious.'
Click to expand...
NOLA.com
 
I'm in the camp that believes that the wheels just fall off for kickers at age 45 (much like RBs fall when they turn 30). Outsider looking in, I think it's plain to see Hartley is the better kicker.

Looks like Carney is playing the teammate role very nicely, and with some good fortune he'll get a Super Bowl ring in the end.

 
New Orleans kicker Garrett Hartley knows peaks, valleys http://bit.ly/7VLn73 #NFL 6 minutes ago from TweetDeck

On Hold Again: Cowboys Looking To Romo Again To Cure Holding Issues http://bit.ly/5oUVFD #NFL about 9 hours ago from TweetDeck

Graham Gano finds comfort level as Redskins' new kicker http://bit.ly/5efIiu #NFL about 11 hours ago from TweetDeck

Buffalo Bills kicker Rian Lindell having another strong season http://bit.ly/7K74Ha #NFL about 19 hours ago from TweetDec

 
Do the same strict guidelines for QB/RB/WR concussion recoveries apply to kickers (i.e. Cundiff)? I like his matchup, but it's against my religion to hold two kickers on my roster.

 
Baltimore PK Billy Cundiff (head) was a limited participant in practice on Thursday as the team prepares for its Week 14 game against the Lions. Cundiff had just two points on Monday in the team's Week 13 game against the Packers.

homers is he good to go? he has good matchup against the lions.

 
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LOCO said:
Baltimore PK Billy Cundiff (head) was a limited participant in practice on Thursday as the team prepares for its Week 14 game against the Lions. Cundiff had just two points on Monday in the team's Week 13 game against the Packers.

homers is he good to go? he has good matchup against the lions.
Click to expand...
LINK...
Even though Ravens kicker Billy Cundiff suffered a concussion on the opening kickoff of Monday's game in Green Bay, he continued to kick for the Ravens through the night. Special teams coordinator Jerry Rosburg said Cundiff was cleared by sideline doctors to play. "They said that he was cleared to play and at that point in time, I started talking with Billy to find out what we needed to do from that point forward," Rosburg said. "Based on my conversations with Billy and my conversations with the other players, Billy was our best option at that point. We made some tactical adjustments, like we do in all game situations, and we chose to go with Billy and those kickoffs. Had Billy not been cleared by our medical staff, then, obviously, the situation would have changed. Bill was our kicker, and we felt like we could get through it with Billy." If Cundiff had been unable to kick, punter Sam Koch would have attempted all place kicks and handled kickoffs.

Cundiff said this week he was fine and would play Sunday against Detroit. The Ravens obviously are counting that no Ben Roethlisberger-type situation develops in the interim. Roethlisberger practiced all week for the Steelers before the Ravens game, then was scratched on Saturday when he complained of headaches. What if Cundiff complained of headaches after team preparation was done, Rosburg was asked? "Well, if it happens Sunday, it would be a lot different than if it happened on Saturday, obviously," he said. What would Rosburg do if it were to happen? "I'd walk up to [GM Ozzie Newsome's] office with John [Harbaugh} and see what he thought."
Click to expand...
 
Mike Herman said:
LOCO said:
Baltimore PK Billy Cundiff (head) was a limited participant in practice on Thursday as the team prepares for its Week 14 game against the Lions. Cundiff had just two points on Monday in the team's Week 13 game against the Packers.

homers is he good to go? he has good matchup against the lions.
Click to expand...
LINK...
Even though Ravens kicker Billy Cundiff suffered a concussion on the opening kickoff of Monday's game in Green Bay, he continued to kick for the Ravens through the night. Special teams coordinator Jerry Rosburg said Cundiff was cleared by sideline doctors to play. "They said that he was cleared to play and at that point in time, I started talking with Billy to find out what we needed to do from that point forward," Rosburg said. "Based on my conversations with Billy and my conversations with the other players, Billy was our best option at that point. We made some tactical adjustments, like we do in all game situations, and we chose to go with Billy and those kickoffs. Had Billy not been cleared by our medical staff, then, obviously, the situation would have changed. Bill was our kicker, and we felt like we could get through it with Billy." If Cundiff had been unable to kick, punter Sam Koch would have attempted all place kicks and handled kickoffs.

Cundiff said this week he was fine and would play Sunday against Detroit. The Ravens obviously are counting that no Ben Roethlisberger-type situation develops in the interim. Roethlisberger practiced all week for the Steelers before the Ravens game, then was scratched on Saturday when he complained of headaches. What if Cundiff complained of headaches after team preparation was done, Rosburg was asked? "Well, if it happens Sunday, it would be a lot different than if it happened on Saturday, obviously," he said. What would Rosburg do if it were to happen? "I'd walk up to [GM Ozzie Newsome's] office with John [Harbaugh} and see what he thought."
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Click to expand...
thanks. i need all the points i can get this playoff weekend, and the lions give up a lot of points to kickers.

 
Kickology blog: Kicking in the Cold http://kickology.blogspot.com/2009/12/kicking-in-cold.html 6 minutes ago from TweetMeme

Garrett Hartley's second chance has a nice kick to it with Saints http://bit.ly/8Evpjj #NFL 34 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Feet of these two veterans deliver rare, needed feats: Oakland Raiders' Sebastian Janikowski and Shane Lechler http://bit.ly/5YMC6c #NFL 35 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Adapting to a new kicker on the fly http://bit.ly/4TocRO #NFL #Redskins about 18 hours ago from TweetDeck

"It's the [kicker] that makes the least amount of mental and physical errors." - Nick Novak http://bit.ly/8363Kj #NFL #Redskins 2:20 PM Dec 11th from TweetDeck

 
David Akers has had some of his worse games at the Meadowlands. That is is the back of my head with this weeks games. I went back and checked here are some of his stats for previous games there.

YEAR ................Fg's .................Xtra pts ..............Long................... Score

2008 Playoffs ...............3-3 .....................2-2....................45.......................23-11 W

2008 .......................... 2-4 (2 blk's)........2-2 ...................52....................... 20-14 W

2007........................... 1-2 ..............................................53.......................3-16 L

2006............................0-1.......................4-4 .............................................36-22 W

2005............................1-2.......................2-2....................20.......................23-26 L

2004............................2-2.......................3-3....................47.......................27-6 W

2003........................................................2-2 .............................................14-10 W

2002........................................................1-1..............................................7-10 W

 
Now A Concern: Nick Folk's Struggles Has Dallas Cowboys Officially Worried http://bit.ly/6qu2yA #NFL 6 minutes ago from TweetDeck



Rob Bironas hit four FGs (27, 34, 36 & 50 yards) in Tennessee Titans win over St. Louis. #NFL 15 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Garrett Hartley hits winning 38 yard FG with 4:42 remaining in New Orleans Saints win over Atlanta. #NFL 19 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Jay Feely hits four FGs (40, 24, 49 & 49 yards) in New York Jets win over Tampa Bay 31 minutes ago from TweetDeck

RT @KickingWorld: NFL NEWS: Nate Kaeding San Diego Chargers Kicker has made 64 consecutive FGs inside 40 yards= WOW! Crazy Consistency! about 12 hours ago from TweetDeck

 
Sean Payton press conference

Are you troubled by Garrett Hartley’s missed PAT?

“The way he has been kicking in practice has been real good. Last week he was solid for us and he’ll come back and be strong.”

Between Thomas Morstead and Michael Koenen yesterday they had seven touchbacks on kickoffs. Do you think the league will possibly push the kickoff line back to the 25-yard line?

“I think where it’s at now is a good spot. I think those guys are the exception to the rule. I wouldn’t say that that would never happen, but where it’s at now is fine.”



Did you think Morstead had this kickoff ability when you drafted him?

“We knew he had leg talent. To answer question, it has been somewhat of a surprise in regards to his kickoff ability. I don’t think any of us envisioned that. We did see a player that we thought had a lot of ability as a punter and we felt good about his athleticism, we felt good about a lot of things when we selected him and fortunately we were right.”

 
Mike Herman said:
Sean Payton press conference

Are you troubled by Garrett Hartley’s missed PAT?

“The way he has been kicking in practice has been real good. Last week he was solid for us and he’ll come back and be strong.”

Between Thomas Morstead and Michael Koenen yesterday they had seven touchbacks on kickoffs. Do you think the league will possibly push the kickoff line back to the 25-yard line?

“I think where it’s at now is a good spot. I think those guys are the exception to the rule. I wouldn’t say that that would never happen, but where it’s at now is fine.”



Did you think Morstead had this kickoff ability when you drafted him?

“We knew he had leg talent. To answer question, it has been somewhat of a surprise in regards to his kickoff ability. I don’t think any of us envisioned that. We did see a player that we thought had a lot of ability as a punter and we felt good about his athleticism, we felt good about a lot of things when we selected him and fortunately we were right.”
Click to expand...
Sounds like Hartley will be fine, but I'll be watching the inactive list for Carney roughly 90 minutes before the game.
 
Mike Herman said:
"David [buehler] is working more on field goals, but he's a ways away.'' - Dallas Cowboys head coach Wade Phillips http://bit.ly/5K9dx1 #NFL 14 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Arizona Cardinals kicker Neil Rackers injury aggravated http://bit.ly/6vBKVl #NFL 15 minutes ago from TweetDeck
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So Folk is more likely than not going to be kicking in the dome this weekend against the Saints. If he misses early, I guess he' be done for the day. This looked like a nice match-up in a dome in the winter earlier in the year . . . now I have to think about Lindell in bad New England weather.
 
Mike Herman said:
Sean Payton press conference

Did you think Morstead had this kickoff ability when you drafted him?

“We knew he had leg talent. To answer question, it has been somewhat of a surprise in regards to his kickoff ability. I don’t think any of us envisioned that. We did see a player that we thought had a lot of ability as a punter and we felt good about his athleticism, we felt good about a lot of things when we selected him and fortunately we were right.”
Click to expand...
It never gets mentioned on this board or on national talk tv/radio shows or in print, but Morstead has been one of the MVP's of this year's Saints season.
 
RushHour said:
I'm not saying Hartley isn't a good late season pick up, but isn't the 'grab the kicker from the best offense' sentiment a little overstated? I mean, under most scoring systems, you want a kicker who will drill FGs, not extra points, as they score more in fantasy. While a great offense will obviously give you more opportunities to get points of any kind out of your kicker, there will be games when the Saints are too efficient in the opposition half and just pile on TDs. In that week, a guy who plays on a decent but unspectacular offense that often has to settle for FGs might score better if he kicks 3 or 4 of those. I'm just saying....it's still a crapshoot.
Click to expand...
To me, it seems like teams with good defenses and conservative offenses (and they often go hand in hand) make for the best FF kicking.Opportunities + red zone stalls = FF K points.
 
New Orleans Saints kicker Garrett Hartley misses practice with a hip injury. http://bit.ly/6OfKNj #NFL 5 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Ageless Wonder Of The Meadowlands: Giants’ punter Jeff Feagles keeps on kicking through 22 NFL seasons http://bit.ly/4PJKFb #NFL 12 minutes ago from TweetDeck

University of Wisconsin-Whitewater Senior place-kicker Jeff Schebler wins the 2009 Fred Mitchell Award http://bit.ly/5GnGlG #NCAA 22 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Dependable San Diego Chargers kicker Nate Kaeding quietly holding record http://bit.ly/81vA52 #NFL 24 minutes ago from TweetDe

 
Anyone have any suggestions on PKs for the playoffs? Are you guys just looking at the match-ups to determine which team is more likely to score? I noticed the cheatsheets have in order Hartley, Cundiff, Brown, Prater, etc. Why isn't Nugent higher on the list?

 
Nugent draws the sweet Lions matchup but it's tough to look past his record of 2 completed FGs in 6 attempts from earlier this season.

 
mawaru said:
Anyone have any suggestions on PKs for the playoffs? Are you guys just looking at the match-ups to determine which team is more likely to score? I noticed the cheatsheets have in order Hartley, Cundiff, Brown, Prater, etc. Why isn't Nugent higher on the list?
Click to expand...
Is Nugent kicking for sure this week or is there a chance that Rackers can kick? I know in the past Rackers has been hurt but still kicked.
 
I read that Rackers is out 1-2 weeks. What intrigues me about Nugent is that he's teamed up with his holder from NYJ.

 
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