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This is part of the systemic problem I am referring too. It's not clear if Richardson is committed to winning. He has players swearing that he is, but his actions don't mix. His actions say he's all about having a successful organization from a business perspective. If they keep Cam around and continue to try and fit that square peg in the round hole without letting Gettleman do his things, I'll believe that to be 100% true.Slapdash said:
Can you name anything that Cam has improved on when it comes to the field of play? Being completely honest with you, I see nothing worth noting. He's better mentally when it comes to his pouting, the way he carries himself etc, but that's about it. He has the talk down....I'm still waiting to see it translate to the field.
I don't think he wants to bail either and I don't think the Panthers want to pay him over 20 million for one sulky season. That is where franchise tag would put him. He will get a deal or they will let him bail. They won't trade him because there is no one going to give them a top ten 1st rounder for him if they think they can get him after the team quits on him or he quits on them. I mean I guess they could take a low pick but then the fans would crucify them as bad as if they let him get away altogether.
Yes I can. He is taking what the defense gives him and being much better in his decision making. His biggest problem IMO is that he still tends to lock on a receiver. He needs to run his progressions better. As I said earlier. But then given his crap line, admit it the right side is a turnstile, and the fact that he can not both throw the ball and catch it maybe that isn't all on him.
Cam's arms aren't long enough for him to catch Cam's passes. He doesn't just lock on a receiver, he stares them down until every defender on the field knows where he is throwing.
Don't get me wrong...I'm not suggesting it's ALL on him, but I have to beg to differ with your comment regarding him taking what the D gives him. That was true last half of last season, but I don't see it this season. He's not only missed a ton of wide open WRs (perhaps that's what you're talking about with respect to making his progressions?), but last week he was just throwing the ball deep to throw the ball deep. I'm not sure I've seen him audible YET after being in the league for three years either. I just don't think there's been a significant step forward. Perhaps it's a problem with my expectations, but HE set my expectations.
Michael Vick just stared down his receiver, and
got picked. Lots of QBs that have been in the league for years are guilty of that.
Yup. And what happened? The Vick collects a "L" just like Cam is so good at collecting.Michael Vick just stared down his receiver, and
Nice job in here, NCC.
Does Cam play defense? Because it is the defense that lost most of those games last year and lost to the Bills this year.Yup. And what happened? The Vick collects a "L" just like Cam is so good at collecting.Michael Vick just stared down his receiver, and
Nice job in here, NCC.
I think we can all get on the same page in pointing the finger first at Teflon Ron and the coaching staff.Does Cam play defense? Because it is the defense that lost most of those games last year and lost to the Bills this year.Yup. And what happened? The Vick collects a "L" just like Cam is so good at collecting.Michael Vick just stared down his receiver, and
Nice job in here, NCC.
My finger points at Richardson first. It begins and ends with him....the other "problems" are just symptoms of the larger.....and if I have to pinpoint a particular event of his, it was the firing of his kids. It's been a monumental plummet since then. Coincidence? Don't know, but a strong argument can be made.I think we can all get on the same page in pointing the finger first at Teflon Ron and the coaching staff.Does Cam play defense? Because it is the defense that lost most of those games last year and lost to the Bills this year.Yup. And what happened? The Vick collects a "L" just like Cam is so good at collecting.Michael Vick just stared down his receiver, and
Nice job in here, NCC.
In order of blame for the current situation:
1) Jerry Richardson - for letting Hurney run it right into the f**king ground before finally firing him, and leaving Fox in the lame duck year that led to this place
2) Hurney - need I really explain this one? His drafts created a dearth of both talent and depth on the roster.
3) Rivera - an extension of the Hurney one in reality (as I never thought he should have been hired in the first place), he clearly has zero in-game management skills. They never make adjustments, time management is atrocious, and preparation is piss poor at best.
4) Shula - an extension of Rivera, really. Sure the OC hasn't treated this offense right in 2 years now, but Shula's a new low. Should have never been hired.
5) Gettleman - yes, down here at 5th, because he's cleaning up the mess the first three laid at his feet. That being said, he's not exactly re-invested the cap space they have to build depth or even add veteran talent to a depleted roster. At least he can draft first AND second rounders, unlike Hurney's ability to only draft a first.
6) The players (all of them) -- ####ty situation all around. It's not Cam's fault, and it's not the defenses fault.
You've both made good points here, but Cam hasn't been put in a position to succeed by the OC the past two years. The defense has been strung out by an offense inept at moving the ball at times, and by poor coaching decisions. When your backfield is completely decimated, and you've got a 6'5" 250lb short yardage hammer, and can win the game by gaining a foot, why on earth wouldn't you do it? Instead, let's throw our 5th-8th DBs on the field and see what happens.
So fed up with this team and organization. They need to completely clean house - scouting department, coaching, etc. Top to bottom. I sincerely hope they choose to build around Cam, but I'm tired of the indecision and clear misaligment of team vision (what they want to be) and talent acquired (who they actually are / can be). Just align the two already and let's move forward.
I don't disagree, obviously.My finger points at Richardson first. It begins and ends with him....the other "problems" are just symptoms of the larger.....and if I have to pinpoint a particular event of his, it was the firing of his kids. It's been a monumental plummet since then. Coincidence? Don't know, but a strong argument can be made.I think we can all get on the same page in pointing the finger first at Teflon Ron and the coaching staff.Does Cam play defense? Because it is the defense that lost most of those games last year and lost to the Bills this year.Yup. And what happened? The Vick collects a "L" just like Cam is so good at collecting.Michael Vick just stared down his receiver, and
Nice job in here, NCC.
In order of blame for the current situation:
1) Jerry Richardson - for letting Hurney run it right into the f**king ground before finally firing him, and leaving Fox in the lame duck year that led to this place
2) Hurney - need I really explain this one? His drafts created a dearth of both talent and depth on the roster.
3) Rivera - an extension of the Hurney one in reality (as I never thought he should have been hired in the first place), he clearly has zero in-game management skills. They never make adjustments, time management is atrocious, and preparation is piss poor at best.
4) Shula - an extension of Rivera, really. Sure the OC hasn't treated this offense right in 2 years now, but Shula's a new low. Should have never been hired.
5) Gettleman - yes, down here at 5th, because he's cleaning up the mess the first three laid at his feet. That being said, he's not exactly re-invested the cap space they have to build depth or even add veteran talent to a depleted roster. At least he can draft first AND second rounders, unlike Hurney's ability to only draft a first.
6) The players (all of them) -- ####ty situation all around. It's not Cam's fault, and it's not the defenses fault.
You've both made good points here, but Cam hasn't been put in a position to succeed by the OC the past two years. The defense has been strung out by an offense inept at moving the ball at times, and by poor coaching decisions. When your backfield is completely decimated, and you've got a 6'5" 250lb short yardage hammer, and can win the game by gaining a foot, why on earth wouldn't you do it? Instead, let's throw our 5th-8th DBs on the field and see what happens.
So fed up with this team and organization. They need to completely clean house - scouting department, coaching, etc. Top to bottom. I sincerely hope they choose to build around Cam, but I'm tired of the indecision and clear misaligment of team vision (what they want to be) and talent acquired (who they actually are / can be). Just align the two already and let's move forward.
Yeah the buck stops at his desk. And if rumors are to be believed a lot of the blame Hurney got belonged to JR. The ridiculous Delhomme contract was allegedly all JR for instance.My finger points at Richardson first. It begins and ends with him....the other "problems" are just symptoms of the larger.....and if I have to pinpoint a particular event of his, it was the firing of his kids. It's been a monumental plummet since then. Coincidence? Don't know, but a strong argument can be made.I think we can all get on the same page in pointing the finger first at Teflon Ron and the coaching staff.Does Cam play defense? Because it is the defense that lost most of those games last year and lost to the Bills this year.Yup. And what happened? The Vick collects a "L" just like Cam is so good at collecting.Michael Vick just stared down his receiver, and
Nice job in here, NCC.
In order of blame for the current situation:
1) Jerry Richardson - for letting Hurney run it right into the f**king ground before finally firing him, and leaving Fox in the lame duck year that led to this place
2) Hurney - need I really explain this one? His drafts created a dearth of both talent and depth on the roster.
3) Rivera - an extension of the Hurney one in reality (as I never thought he should have been hired in the first place), he clearly has zero in-game management skills. They never make adjustments, time management is atrocious, and preparation is piss poor at best.
4) Shula - an extension of Rivera, really. Sure the OC hasn't treated this offense right in 2 years now, but Shula's a new low. Should have never been hired.
5) Gettleman - yes, down here at 5th, because he's cleaning up the mess the first three laid at his feet. That being said, he's not exactly re-invested the cap space they have to build depth or even add veteran talent to a depleted roster. At least he can draft first AND second rounders, unlike Hurney's ability to only draft a first.
6) The players (all of them) -- ####ty situation all around. It's not Cam's fault, and it's not the defenses fault.
You've both made good points here, but Cam hasn't been put in a position to succeed by the OC the past two years. The defense has been strung out by an offense inept at moving the ball at times, and by poor coaching decisions. When your backfield is completely decimated, and you've got a 6'5" 250lb short yardage hammer, and can win the game by gaining a foot, why on earth wouldn't you do it? Instead, let's throw our 5th-8th DBs on the field and see what happens.
So fed up with this team and organization. They need to completely clean house - scouting department, coaching, etc. Top to bottom. I sincerely hope they choose to build around Cam, but I'm tired of the indecision and clear misaligment of team vision (what they want to be) and talent acquired (who they actually are / can be). Just align the two already and let's move forward.
At least it's a sign. Hope it continues. They may want to also look at their practice squad a little closer...perhaps some answers are there to be found.
What I liked was Cam was a lot more Cam. I feel like he almost needs a hard run or two to get into it. And I hope the next time they are 4th and 1 trying to close out they remember that touchdown run where Cam pushed a DT into the end zone. They could have gotten that one and we'd 2 and 1 now in sole possession of second place in our division.See Ron....play with a sense of urgency and good things can happen
Agreed. And hopefully while watching film this week, Cam notices his success increases when he doesn't stare down his WR. I don't fault him completely for the INT, but I think everyone on the field knew where he was throwing in the first half. Second half was much better. Now, I just hope Rivera and company keep the foot on the gas. I was looking at the records of the NFC as a whole just a minute ago and there's only 5-6 teams with a better record than the Panthers right now, so all is not lost.What I liked was Cam was a lot more Cam. I feel like he almost needs a hard run or two to get into it. And I hope the next time they are 4th and 1 trying to close out they remember that touchdown run where Cam pushed a DT into the end zone. They could have gotten that one and we'd 2 and 1 now in sole possession of second place in our division.See Ron....play with a sense of urgency and good things can happen
And of course that defense we saw is what they envisioned from the beginning. Tremendous pressure up front making teams one dimensional and forcing them to take chances which lead to mistakes.
I loved the game obviously but yeah it got me a little mad thinking of the times we punted on 4rth and 1 with Newton this year. Yesterday at the goal line he picked up that Dlinemen and walked him into the end zone. That was awesome.What I liked was Cam was a lot more Cam. I feel like he almost needs a hard run or two to get into it. And I hope the next time they are 4th and 1 trying to close out they remember that touchdown run where Cam pushed a DT into the end zone. They could have gotten that one and we'd 2 and 1 now in sole possession of second place in our division.See Ron....play with a sense of urgency and good things can happen
And of course that defense we saw is what they envisioned from the beginning. Tremendous pressure up front making teams one dimensional and forcing them to take chances which lead to mistakes.
Eli didn't have time to breathe with the way the cats were pouncing him. It was a thing of beauty.
our dline is awesome but holy hell that offensive line for the Giants is pretty horrific. They all seemed slow and weak. Its going to be hard for the Giants to win very much unless they figure something out and quick. Manning is going to get killed at this rate.Eli didn't have time to breathe with the way the cats were pouncing him. It was a thing of beauty.
That pick was all on Lafell IMO. One of the knocks on him is he rounds off routes instead of being sharp. In fact that same route was run several more times and everyone else did it right leading to receptions. The announcers pretty much made a point of it when Ginn ran the same route and it was a completion. You got to actually come back on a come back route.Agreed. And hopefully while watching film this week, Cam notices his success increases when he doesn't stare down his WR. I don't fault him completely for the INT, but I think everyone on the field knew where he was throwing in the first half. Second half was much better. Now, I just hope Rivera and company keep the foot on the gas. I was looking at the records of the NFC as a whole just a minute ago and there's only 5-6 teams with a better record than the Panthers right now, so all is not lost.What I liked was Cam was a lot more Cam. I feel like he almost needs a hard run or two to get into it. And I hope the next time they are 4th and 1 trying to close out they remember that touchdown run where Cam pushed a DT into the end zone. They could have gotten that one and we'd 2 and 1 now in sole possession of second place in our division.See Ron....play with a sense of urgency and good things can happen
And of course that defense we saw is what they envisioned from the beginning. Tremendous pressure up front making teams one dimensional and forcing them to take chances which lead to mistakes.
We definitely could be 3-0. We should be 3-0. To think we had the team everyone is calling the best in the NFL played that close. Pretty much shut them down and let it get away. Oh well can't replay them but if we can make the playoffs, a big if, I'm not sure the Seahawks would be that happy to see us again.
They looked like us against the Bills.our dline is awesome but holy hell that offensive line for the Giants is pretty horrific. They all seemed slow and weak. Its going to be hard for the Giants to win very much unless they figure something out and quick. Manning is going to get killed at this rate.Eli didn't have time to breathe with the way the cats were pouncing him. It was a thing of beauty.
I always thought McDermott got a very raw deal in Philly. That defense performed pretty well overall. But it's hard to follow a guy like he did.
I guess the defense gets credit for this last win?Does Cam play defense? Because it is the defense that lost most of those games last year and lost to the Bills this year.Yup. And what happened? The Vick collects a "L" just like Cam is so good at collecting.Michael Vick just stared down his receiver, and
Nice job in here, NCC.
Not enough credit given there
That was a little bit of tongue in cheek. Getts nailed it here.
Largely yes. Does anyone think the Panthers could have won a shootout Sunday? I don't. Heck I was still wondering how they were going to lose it in the 3rd quarter.I guess the defense gets credit for this last win?Does Cam play defense? Because it is the defense that lost most of those games last year and lost to the Bills this year.Yup. And what happened? The Vick collects a "L" just like Cam is so good at collecting.Michael Vick just stared down his receiver, and
Nice job in here, NCC.
Gettleman has really done solid work. And I agree on Cam and Ginn. They get in sync it could be scary.
If I'm being honest, you weren't alone in this thinkingLargely yes. Does anyone think the Panthers could have won a shootout Sunday? I don't. Heck I was still wondering how they were going to lose it in the 3rd quarter.I guess the defense gets credit for this last win?Does Cam play defense? Because it is the defense that lost most of those games last year and lost to the Bills this year.Yup. And what happened? The Vick collects a "L" just like Cam is so good at collecting.Michael Vick just stared down his receiver, and
Nice job in here, NCC.
It's OK. They have teased us so many times. At some point you just say "no I am not going to try to kick the football". I swear I didn't start celebrating until it would have taken a historic comeback to win and even then I was a tad nervous.If I'm being honest, you weren't alone in this thinkingLargely yes. Does anyone think the Panthers could have won a shootout Sunday? I don't. Heck I was still wondering how they were going to lose it in the 3rd quarter.I guess the defense gets credit for this last win?Does Cam play defense? Because it is the defense that lost most of those games last year and lost to the Bills this year.Yup. And what happened? The Vick collects a "L" just like Cam is so good at collecting.Michael Vick just stared down his receiver, and
Nice job in here, NCC.
The Panthers have had too many 4th quarter implosions to not be nervous about losing the lead. The whole first half of last season was like that, and the beginning of this season. Hopefully that pattern was stopped in week 3.
a glass half full type might argue the start of this season was the best thing for this coaching staff
Hopefully they learned some things. Like 250 lb QBs change the formula on going for one yard for one example.
That's not what he said. He said practice was good but not good enough. I like that they are setting a high bar in practice and I like that Rivera is honest enough to say it wasn't good enough and to call out the players on it as he did after the practice.Exactly what we want to hear coming off a bye week: "We didn't really practice well and that has to get better"
I'm not sure of the distinction you are making. I don't see much of a difference in your phrasing and mine. I have no idea what "good" means to them, so I'm not really sure how high the bar's been set. I also like Rivera's honesty about them not practicing to his expectation, but either way it's not what you want to hear coming out of a bye. That's really the only point I was attempting to make.That's not what he said. He said practice was good but not good enough. I like that they are setting a high bar in practice and I like that Rivera is honest enough to say it wasn't good enough and to call out the players on it as he did after the practice.Exactly what we want to hear coming off a bye week: "We didn't really practice well and that has to get better"
I agree with most everything you have written in here recently.
