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****The 2019 Carolina Panthers Thread**** We Rhule At Losing (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter BassNBrew
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NCCommish
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
Most of those guys will be gone and some of the others look like a reach for guys who aren't going to be game changers to pick at 8. But we'll see.
spider321
Footballguy
QB's, and pressure on QB's, win and lose football games, not RB's and WR's.
Game Changers is just an NFL Network hype show starring Steve Mariucci.
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NCCommish
Footballguy
SF isn't taking Fournette at 2. There has been a rumor of Fournette going to every top 7 team that isn't set (Tennessee with Murray/Henry, SD with Gordon and Bears with Howard). Honestly, I am sure there is the same rumor floating around about the same teams with any team (like Trubisky going to SF for the Browns) that has draft capital. We have draft capital as do the Browns.
I also ignore many mocks where I see guys going to us at 8 or 40 that we haven't even talked to yet. We have met with Howard, Njoku and Engram (in the 1st/2nd round range), so TE is definitely on the table. DE is definitely on the table. That said, outside of those 3 and a couple late round guys, we haven't been that active at TE. We've met with 10+ DEs/OLBs who could be 4-3DEs that are slated anywhere from 1st to 3rd rounds.
The positions that we really haven't met with much at all are C, G, P, K, QB and DT. We've met with a few LBs, but mainly later round guys or as I mentioned above, guys who could end up being 4-3DEs like Watt. We have met with a ton of OTs, WRs (a lot in the 2nd-3rd round grades) and DEs. We've met with a good amount of RBs, CBs and Ss.
We could go a lot of different ways in the 1st and at 40/64. It's really going to depend on the guys we really like and who's there. I'm sure some of the guys we like a lot are well liked elsewhere.
NCCommish
Footballguy
As I recall they tried to hide their interest in Luke. Who we meet with is a nice indicator but it isn't a way to rule people out necessarily.
That wasn't Gettleman. One of the only 1st to 3rd round picks we didn't meet with was Star, but only because we never expected him to fall. I remember that draft and I recall Star (before the heart condition came out) being talked about as potentially the #1 overall pick. So, yes, if someone drops, we could absolutely shift gears. That said, I do believe we've met with just about all of the players who are in play for us. Garrett is going #1 and we've met with Allen (not a DT, please), Fournette, Adams, Thomas, McCaffery, Barnett and Howard. That's 7 players, plus Garrett, so seems like the pick at 8 will be one of those 7. I think 1 or 2 QBs, Hooker and Lattimore may also show up, so we may have to choose among those 7.
I think even Gettleman isn't fully open, because even though we had Bradberry in for a visit, I don't think it was publicized before the draft. I've only seen 27 official visits listed for us and in his press conference, he said we used 29, so that kind of leaves some doors open.
I do, love this stuff. I have never been as into a draft as I have with this one. I really like the draft class and we have better picks than I can recall. Even in Cam's year, we didn't have a 2nd rounder. Last year we had (thanks to the Pats and Chiefs) 30, 62, 77, 141 and 252 and this year we have 8, 40, 64, 98, 115, 152, 192 and 233. Even though we trade up in the 3rd and 5th, we still have way better picks than last year at every spot and 3 additional picks. 8 instead of 30, 40 instead of 62, 64 instead of 77, a freebie at 98, 115 instead of 141, a freebie at 152, a freebie at 192 and 233 instead of 252. Also, as I mentioned above, I think the talent available at every pick is better than last year. It is going to be a helluva lot more fun analyzing what we get this year compared to last year, especially knowing we improved the team in FA instead of losing Norman.
NCCommish
Footballguy
To be honest I like our current corners a lot. Now don't get me wrong it would've been great to keep Norman but the price was way too high and these guys are going to get better. Of course keeping them.may prove problematic financially in the future but let's worry about that then.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I always felt like CAR only liked WR in two flavors. Either a hulking NBA power-forward or lightning fast smaller guys. Seems to me that Ted Ginn role could be filled(and maybe eclipsed) by Dede Westbrook, Carlos Henderson, or even KD Cannon. Those guys aren't big but they run in the 4.4's and depending on who you believe one(or maybe all three of them) will be available on day-3 of the draft. On the other end of the spectrum a hulking WR that fits the CAR mold that will also be available very late is Kenny Golladay. I'm not saying I think Godwin/Jones are bad players they just don't jump out to me as the CAR type WR's that have been successful in their offense recently. I do worry a bit with both of them that they have slid up draft boards long after the college season ended in DEC in much the same way Nelson Agholor did.
I wouldn't HATE Fournette at 8 but I would have a tough time taking any RB in the first round unless you think he never needs to come off the field(like a Zeke). There are also some good RB values expected in the last four rounds of this draft on day 3. McNichols/Mack/Hunt are all good enough to share time with Stewart right now for instance, and you could even double dip and take a between the tackles and short yardage grinder late to compete with Artis-Payne for a roster spot like Jamaal Williams/Perine/Hill/DeVeon Smith/Clement/Conner later. Don't most RB's wear-out after a short window(unless they avoid a lot of wear-and-tear by missing time due to injury) anyway? It just seems silly to me to spend that much draft capital into a position that is cheap to compliment via FA any year. The tenth highest paid NFL RB is $5mil/season.
In general though I think if CAR were really interested in keeping Cam healthy they would invest in the OL and in this draft that means burning an early pick. Protect Cam, build the defense back up seems like the best recipe for success to me. Take EDGE/OL/Secondary in the first two days and compliment your offensive pieces on the last day.
Not a Panther fan, just my 2 cents.
I'm not seeing room on the roster for many draft picks to stick. I expect some moving up or deferring picks until 2018
pantherclub
Footballguy
spider321
Footballguy
Lmao!
Have you ever wanted the team to draft anything but fantasy football players, cub?
pantherclub
Footballguy
Jayrok
Footballguy
I never liked Fournette much and wouldn't mind if he's gone before we have to make that decision. As strong as he can run, I'm just afraid he will be oft-injured with that ankle But, like NCC, if he is the pick I hope he's the next ADP or LT.
I like Thomas or Adams if either are there at #8. A hard hitting safety who can fill up 8 or 10 years would be great. I would be cautiously optimistic if we were to get McCaffrey at #8. The idea of having a play maker in the backfield, slot, and kick return game is exciting.
I'd rather have Barnett than Howard, Hooker, or Lattimore... or Allen.
I like Thomas or Adams if either are there at #8. A hard hitting safety who can fill up 8 or 10 years would be great. I would be cautiously optimistic if we were to get McCaffrey at #8. The idea of having a play maker in the backfield, slot, and kick return game is exciting.
I'd rather have Barnett than Howard, Hooker, or Lattimore... or Allen.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Scout Greg Gabriel tweet from yesterday.
Told yesterday that McCaffrey doesn't get past Carolina
Not sure who told him and/or how he or they know this. Would this happen if Fournette is gone or is CMac the pick according to this guy? What if both Fournette and CMAc are there at 8? Or probably this is all a smoke screen to fish other teams to make moves. Wish Thursday would hurry up and get here.
Told yesterday that McCaffrey doesn't get past Carolina
Not sure who told him and/or how he or they know this. Would this happen if Fournette is gone or is CMac the pick according to this guy? What if both Fournette and CMAc are there at 8? Or probably this is all a smoke screen to fish other teams to make moves. Wish Thursday would hurry up and get here.
100% agree. My dream scenarios for trade ups are to use the 5th, 6th and 7th picks to move up a bit. I like the 8th pick in the 4th because it gives us time to digest who didn't go in the 3rd. Our 6th would potentially move the 4th all the way to the top of the 4th. The 5th could get the 4th to the end of the 3rd (right below our 98). The 7th is basically worthless in trades, but can still be used. If you wanted to go balls out and just get the best 4 guys you wanted, we could package up rounds 4-7 and move our 3rd round comp pick from 98 to 74. Then we'd have 8, 40, 64 and 74 and get 4 really solid players. I think 5 might be the minimum, so I'd say 4th + 5, 6 and 7 so we'd have 8, 40, 64, 97 and 98. 5 top 100.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Actually I disagree. I see guys who haven't really proven it and older guys who will be strictly situational in nature on this roster. We got rid of one guy who hadn't proven it already and Funchess better not be very comfortable. The situational guys, like Pep, leave openings for young guys to get snaps. Now I'm not saying trade ups won't happen but this idea that the roster is pretty much set seems off target to me.
Noah Davis
Footballguy
Dave Gettlemen disagrees with you. He said you need to do three things to win games:
- Run the football
- Stop the run
- Rush the passer
Not set, but how many actual roster spots are there. Funchess isn't comfortable, but do you really think he doesn't make the 53? Unlike Bene, he'd get sniped immediately. I don't have time to do it, but take a look at the actual roster and just see how many spots you think are available. I know there is no way we keep 8 rookies. I don't care if we actually trade up at all, but I'd rather us use the lower rounds to ensure we grab a guy we love in the 3rd instead of taking a guy in the 4th and 5th that we think are just OK. Only in that case, though.
Like your post above, I like Worley more than most, I think our CBs are solid this year although we definitely need to upgrade the depth beyond Bradberry, Captain and Worley. Fortunately, this is a solid draft to do that.
NCCommish
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
Yeah I don't think Fun would be that hot a commodity. He has shown little ability to get separation and still hasn't shown the ability to consistently use his physicality to win against smaller DBs. I liked the pick and I have held out hope but at this point starting to look like a failed experiment. Some team may pay him minimum for a camp look but I don't see people rushing in to scoop him up as their next starter. And it seems to me he better show up big time this year in OTAs and camp if he wants to keep his roster spot. Unless Bersin will loan him those pictures he has of JR and goat in a compromising position.
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NCCommish
Footballguy
As to open spots. There are a lot of depth spots open IMO. Now again how many guys do you get in the 5th or later that are productive? Not many that's why the guys that are stand out. So I don't mind getting a higher rated guy at all so trading up is cool with me. UDFAs will still be available to sign and we have had some luck there in recent years. Heck may even be a QB to groom as a backup available there.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Worley IMO has a higher upside than Bradberry. I think we really see him take a big step this year. He started to figure it out in the second half of the season last year and I think he will continue to improve. Depth wise I see DG bringing in vets on cheap short deals more so than drafting for it. I do really like a couple of the safeties in the draft though.
NCCommish
Footballguy
If someone in the Panthers organization told him this it sounds like trade baiting to me.
pantherclub
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
As long as we get good value I guess. I like a lot of guys that are supposed to be there late first and second round.
NCCommish
Footballguy
So we are a couple of days away and despite not being much for predictions I thought I'd throw one out there. Johnathon Allen DE at 8. I've just been thinking about DG and what he loves. What he really loves is defensive lineman. We all know that. Pep is a low snap count guy. Johnson is a short timer. Addison is really a rotation guy. So a line that looks stocked right now really isn't. Allen looks like he can play inside and out. Imagine him and KK inside on 3rd and long, that could be something to behold and give this team some real bite for years to come. So there is my contrarian pick.
I disagree with your post above on Funchess, there are a ton of teams that would grab him if we tried to stash him on the PS. This is his 3rd year and he's still 22. He's looked solid at times, but last year was just awful all around. I don't expect any WRs to look good when Cam's completion % is bottom of the league. 53% is awful.
Anyway, back on looking at roster, 53 man roster. Dump 3 for K, P and LS, so down to 50.
Guaranteed O (9): Kalil, Kalil, Turner, Norwell, D. Williams, Cam, Stewart, Benjamin, Olsen
Should be on the roster (5): Larsen, Silatolu or Scott (basically backup G), Funchess, Shepard, Anderson
Open for Business (10): Oher (if top OT drafted), Gradkowski, Silatolu or Scott, Charles Johnson, Bersin, Dickson, Fozzie, Young, CAP, Webb
Guaranteed D (14): Bradberry, Worley, Captain, TD, Luke, Shaq, Adams, Coleman, Short, Star, Butler, Addison, Peppers, CJ
Should be on the roster (6): Mayo, Boston, Love, Horton, Cash, T. Williams
Open for Business (4): Sanchez, Dixon (backup S), Jones, Jacobs
That's 51 of 53 and I am probably missing someone. There are definitely a lot of open roster spots where rookies could challenge. I'd expect our first 4 picks to make it no matter what, so honestly there will be at least 2 off the open for business gone. If the 4th and 5th rounders are decent, then likely at least 4 gone and that doesn't include UDFAs, street FAs (still alot left) or cuts from other teams, etc. There could be a lot of movement, but again I think this makes a decent case about moving up with some of the later picks as there isn't a real good chance of the 5th, 6th and 7th rounders making the team, especially with our track record of UDFAs.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Thanks for doing this. Regarding the offensive open for business
Charles Johnson (WR) - Would cost 2.5 mill in dead money if we cut.
Oher - Don't see us cutting him unless it's a medical issue.
Dickson - Maybe not so much him specifically, but unless we are going in the season with Olsen and two rookies, another TE roster spot is a lock.
QB - We're keeping 3. I guess we could draft one late, but that hasn't been the MO here.
FB - Devon Johnson or Darell Young. Again, we could draft one this year, but one will be on the roster.
When all the talk was about him shifting to TE, it was pretty easy to figure that he wouldn't be a top caliber WR in the league.
omally
Footballguy
Funchess had a set back as a rookie from getting hurt in training camp. Last year he wasn't utilized as much as I thought he would be, and he was up and down when he played but so was the guy throwing him the ball, and the whole team in general. This year is probably a make or break year for him.
Jayrok
Footballguy
I saw a couple of mocks that had Allen fall to 8. I'd rather have Jamal Adams if Getts goes defense (if both are there of course). I think Adams would have a bigger impact on this defense. Like having another Shaq Thompson back there, but at safety. I'd love to see the blitz packages with Adams coming off the edge.
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
interesting...
ESPN's Todd McShay has heard the Panthers could select Stanford RB Christian McCaffrey with the No. 8 overall pick "even if LSU's Leonard Fournette is still on the board."
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/12198/christian-mccaffrey
ESPN's Todd McShay has heard the Panthers could select Stanford RB Christian McCaffrey with the No. 8 overall pick "even if LSU's Leonard Fournette is still on the board."
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/12198/christian-mccaffrey
NCCommish
Footballguy
There are several different people.saying their sources have been saying the McCaffrey love is real. That the Panthers are a bit worried about the injury history with Fournette and the ankle. They've been there done that and want to avoid the problem with this pick. But who knows? Could all be smoke.
stratocatter
Footballguy
A few years back Rivera was lusting over getting a Panthers version of Sproles. So I suppose McCaffrey could well be in play. My biggest question would be can he catch a 95 mph fastball from 20 feet? Because that is a skill he will need.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Interestingly enough our new wide receiver coach was McCaffrey's coach in college. And it's going to be a minute before Cam has the velocity he did. Maybe even force him to learn to rely on something other than a fastball. So it may not be the worst thing if it helps him develop some touch.
stratocatter
Footballguy
You know, I overlooked Lance Taylor as a factor in this. We'll know before too long. I'm not sold on him being worth #8 but I am no pro so what do I know. I am an OL guy anyhow not that I think we should take one instead, just not really convinced you take anything less than a transcendent talent at RB or WR that high. I'm not sure McCaffrey is that guy. I probably would prefer Barnett out of who will likely be there to be honest.
Cam having touch, and accuracy, would be a dream. Maybe you are on to something with the adjustment due to physical limitations thing but that isn't something he'll just be able to do though, I don't think. It will take some time for him to accept he doesn't have that fastball and learn to compensate. I hope for better but I fear we're in for another "wait till next year" season because of this surgery.
Cam having touch, and accuracy, would be a dream. Maybe you are on to something with the adjustment due to physical limitations thing but that isn't something he'll just be able to do though, I don't think. It will take some time for him to accept he doesn't have that fastball and learn to compensate. I hope for better but I fear we're in for another "wait till next year" season because of this surgery.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Well he is going to have to rework his throwing motion to some degree so maybe he cuts down on the high throws a bit and maybe he learns to throw a guy open a bit? I'm looking for a silver lining. As to McCaffery he sure seems like someone who can add a lot of versatility to this offense. His ability to be a return man will also be greatly appreciated.
Jayrok
Footballguy
For the last couple of seasons we've (at least I have) been wondering where any type of screen game had gone. Fozzy had a couple of moments over a 3 year span but it is exciting to think how Christian would be with the ball in the open field (providing CMac is the pick tomorrow). Cam never was that good at checking down to the RB for a release valve... maybe that'll change if McCaffrey is on the field. Also good point about his velocity after the shoulder surgery.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Just don't see DG moving up from 8, but I do see him moving down if the price is right. If we trade with the Browns for the #8 spot, what scenario would you like to see? Is there any chance McCaffrey could slide down to #12? Assuming the Browns jump up to grab Trubisky in front of the Bills...
9. Bengals - Seems they're looking for defense, not RB.
10. Bills - QB. Probably the reason Cleveland wants to jump ahead of them, for Trubisky or maybe Watson. If no QB, they probably go defense to replace S. Gilmore who left.
11. Saints - They just signed Peterson and have Ingram. Their defense is a mess, bet they stay defense in round 1.
12. Panthers - Christian McCaffrey and a Browns 2nd or 3rd in the pocket?
Could that work, or do you think some team would jump up and grab McCaffrey?
9. Bengals - Seems they're looking for defense, not RB.
10. Bills - QB. Probably the reason Cleveland wants to jump ahead of them, for Trubisky or maybe Watson. If no QB, they probably go defense to replace S. Gilmore who left.
11. Saints - They just signed Peterson and have Ingram. Their defense is a mess, bet they stay defense in round 1.
12. Panthers - Christian McCaffrey and a Browns 2nd or 3rd in the pocket?
Could that work, or do you think some team would jump up and grab McCaffrey?
pantherclub
Footballguy
I think your entire scenario depends on the first couple of picks to see if there will be a qb run or not.
There seems to be talk now that maybe both CM and LF are gone before 8 so that means a top notch defensive player slides or we can trade with someone who wants a top QB. If not take whoever is left between LF or Cmac
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