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****The 2019 Carolina Panthers Thread**** We Rhule At Losing (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter BassNBrew
- Start date
NCCommish
Footballguy
Yeah Allen looked pretty good. He has obviously been studying the offense as it looked like they ran the entire playbook.
As to the draft pick and the win. You play to win. You don't play to lose regardless. Once you start doing that it seeps into the teams culture and that isn't good. So I am glad they played to win. I'm glad Ryan got to go out on a win. Maybe Pep and TD as well.
On to next season. This team has a lot going for it. We have some serious questions to answer but we also have some great talent to build with. I'm looking forward to what's next.
On a personal note won my championship game by 4 points. It was back and forth all day with both teams holding the lead at various times. In the end it was Tyler Lockett who came through with the points that would seal the deal.
As to the draft pick and the win. You play to win. You don't play to lose regardless. Once you start doing that it seeps into the teams culture and that isn't good. So I am glad they played to win. I'm glad Ryan got to go out on a win. Maybe Pep and TD as well.
On to next season. This team has a lot going for it. We have some serious questions to answer but we also have some great talent to build with. I'm looking forward to what's next.
On a personal note won my championship game by 4 points. It was back and forth all day with both teams holding the lead at various times. In the end it was Tyler Lockett who came through with the points that would seal the deal.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Other than Taylor there aren't any really good tackles that deserve a first round pick coming out. And he is unlikely to last until our pick. This isn't a great tackle class.
pantherclub
Footballguy
I havent really looked except for the bleacher report mock this morning (Bama safety) but if thats the case then trade down or something. They must IMO come out of the first 3 rounds with at least 2 olineman and a pass rusher. Maybe even 3 lineman. This business of not protecting cam has to get fixed asap. It will be interesting to see our cap space after all of the decisions are made. I saw today where the jags are looking to blow things up and Jalen Ramesy will be available. Not sure what it would take for him but its at least worth looking at. That would make our dbacks set for a while. But all in all they must figure out the oline situation. I wonder if Dwilliams will take a hometown hurt discount to come back?
Just looked. Greg Little looks to be a mid round pick. I would get him if we could at 16. Dude seems legit and could at least play RT right away.
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NCCommish
Footballguy
Little will only be a first rounder because of how weak this class is. His own coaches call him an underachiever who doesn't play to his full potential and displays a lack of interest in playing better. Guys who will never play an NFL down outplayed him consistently getting pressure on the QB. Little is the trap of drafting someone based on need. You draft him, you think you can get him to his level and then he gets cut because he never does and you wasted a first rounder on a project.
Worm
slimy ninja
Bolded players were significant contributors / starters for us. Yikes. At least 6 of those 8 spots have no one near as capable behind them.
UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS
S Mike Adams
RB Cameron Artis-Payne
RB Kenjon Barner
RB Travaris Cadet
K Chandler Catanzaro
OT Chris Clark
LB Thomas Davis
WR Devin Funchess
DE Wes Horton
LB Ben Jacobs
S Colin Jones
C Ryan Kalil (retiring)
DT Kyle Love
LB David Mayo
OT Marshall Newhouse
DE Julius Peppers
S Eric Reid
G Amini Silatolu
RB Fozzy Whittaker
OT Daryl Williams
UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS
S Mike Adams
RB Cameron Artis-Payne
RB Kenjon Barner
RB Travaris Cadet
K Chandler Catanzaro
OT Chris Clark
LB Thomas Davis
WR Devin Funchess
DE Wes Horton
LB Ben Jacobs
S Colin Jones
C Ryan Kalil (retiring)
DT Kyle Love
LB David Mayo
OT Marshall Newhouse
DE Julius Peppers
S Eric Reid
G Amini Silatolu
RB Fozzy Whittaker
OT Daryl Williams
NCCommish
Footballguy
I would welcome that move because the man can run a defense and he's a good assistant head coach so I would love to see that
JFS171
Footballguy
As for the draft, middle of the OL has to be a priority with Kalil retiring. I think his play has gradually slipped the last few years, but they’ve got very little behind him.
I admit I wasn’t able to watch games as closely this year as I would’ve liked, but were the tackles really the problem? Moton and Williams seemed pretty solid when they played, and they’re stuck with Matt Kalil for another year. Mahon and Turner seem established as the Gs. Need a C to bring it all together, and some depth at a swing tackle (perhaps bring back Clark).
The defense needs better coaching, but it also needs a talent infusion. The CBs are probably fine if the pass rush is strong. They’re not good enough to elevate the pass rush. The pass rush was a mess all year. Both safety spots need addressing. Kuechly didn’t seem to have a ton of help at LB either with Davis clearly falling off and Thompson possibly playing hurt.
Lot of things to address, but a lot in place as well.
I admit I wasn’t able to watch games as closely this year as I would’ve liked, but were the tackles really the problem? Moton and Williams seemed pretty solid when they played, and they’re stuck with Matt Kalil for another year. Mahon and Turner seem established as the Gs. Need a C to bring it all together, and some depth at a swing tackle (perhaps bring back Clark).
The defense needs better coaching, but it also needs a talent infusion. The CBs are probably fine if the pass rush is strong. They’re not good enough to elevate the pass rush. The pass rush was a mess all year. Both safety spots need addressing. Kuechly didn’t seem to have a ton of help at LB either with Davis clearly falling off and Thompson possibly playing hurt.
Lot of things to address, but a lot in place as well.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Yeah, he should have gotten some time to develop his team. One year isn't enough to do much of anything, especially with a rookie QB. I do wish they'd grab him back to Charlotte.
stratocatter
Footballguy
Gosh I guess I disagree with almost everyone. Well, whoever wants OL in the 1st and Wilkes as DC. I loved Wilkes as secondary coach but not so much as a blitz happy DC. But maybe experience helps and he could be a better DC this time around, I don't know. I just know I was not crazy about him as DC, and the secondary suffered from his absence. As far as OL I just don't see a step-right-in stud LOT happening mainly because schools just aren't turning them out. It's about the only or maybe the second thing I agreed with Gettleman about, we never took that 1st round LOT because the right one wasn't there; not because we didn't want one, I have to credit his discipline in that regard. I think we just missed one or two being there but they were snatched.
Our draft, DL, pass rush. Stack it up. Best player once that is done because lord knows we have plenty of positions open. We have so many spots to fill, as pointed out, it is gonna be tough.
And no one knows what to think about Cam, from where we sit. I think it could be a very big problem but the information to decide isn't available to fans. Probably a crap shoot if you are a doctor for that matter.
Our draft, DL, pass rush. Stack it up. Best player once that is done because lord knows we have plenty of positions open. We have so many spots to fill, as pointed out, it is gonna be tough.
And no one knows what to think about Cam, from where we sit. I think it could be a very big problem but the information to decide isn't available to fans. Probably a crap shoot if you are a doctor for that matter.
pantherclub
Footballguy
I can easily argue that for the panthers the bpa strategy is a huge failure.
Jayrok
Footballguy
I think our secondary is better now than when Wilks was DC. If we keep Reid and draft/sign another S and or CB, it will be even better. Our two CBs have developed very well, imo, and I'd like to see more blitzes from a Wilks-run defense. We certainly need to address the safety position, though. Way too many wide-open WR running around the middle of the field this season.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Not sure you can. Luke seemed like a luxury glad we made that pick. No team, no talking head, no one is 100% on draft choices.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Funchess - BPA, Shaq - BPA, Vernon-BPA
3 drafts that DG's strategy buried us in the hole we are in now. We didnt a wideout that draft, sure as hell didnt need another linebacker and at the time we had short and star on the roster. Totally ignoring oline and pass rusher and safety. Gettlemans BPA strategy for us (now it may work for others) was a big failure as it pertains to this team. I dont like it and never have. If you have a hole on your roster and there is a guy that can help in fill that up then what does it matter if you reach a bit for said player if you have done your due diligence on him?
Like I said earlier it is imperative we draft a tackle in the first or second reach be damned. For instance if the best player on the board is a linebacker are you implying we should take that him over our actual more pressing needs? No man we have to fill out our roster instead of over drafting at postions
NCCommish
Footballguy
We did need a receiver when we drafted Funchess. Shaq was ou led to take the place of TD who is always an injury risk and Vernon was drafted because we knew we couldn't keep the interior together.
And if we reach and then guy craters then what? I'm sure everyone will be very forgiving of the reach if it doesn't pan out.
stratocatter
Footballguy
Our cornerbacks are sort of better just this past season. 2 of them anyway. Truthfully it's hard to do worse than the way we went into 2016, that was a lot to fix. There does seem to be hope. Reid may be good seems like he is better acclimated and is at least an athlete. Too many big hits not enough wrap up mentality.
Basically I remember Wilkes as doing a lot with what he was given to work with, until 2016 which the lord himself would have had a hard time making lemonade out of that situation. But I was real happy with his work as secondary coach. Hey I'm just a fan, make no claims of being infallible, maybe I am way off in thinking Wilkes was an above average secondary coach and that he wasn't that great a DC.
The BPA vs need well I think early if a transcendent talent somehow falls to you then you take him regardless of position. Otherwise it is more of BPA at a position of need, and we have plenty so we should have some good options.
Past players mentioned, I didn't buy Funchess as best WR on the board let alone player. And on top, we traded up for him. I think I probably held reasonable hope he'd develop into a good #2 but that was about it. He was young, so you could have some patience but it's hard to justify sticking with him after this past season.
Butler was sort of a wtf for me, drafting two years into the future which personally I do like that way of thinking but you had better have a stacked roster to do it with a 1st round pick. As to whether he was the best available, there are guys who turned out better, but I think some other teams liked him too. I do feel like you are adding risk to something that is already a gamble when you take a guy from a smaller school/lesser conference.
I didn't have a huge problem with Shaq but haven't seen what I expected or hoped. Can't win them all.
Basically I remember Wilkes as doing a lot with what he was given to work with, until 2016 which the lord himself would have had a hard time making lemonade out of that situation. But I was real happy with his work as secondary coach. Hey I'm just a fan, make no claims of being infallible, maybe I am way off in thinking Wilkes was an above average secondary coach and that he wasn't that great a DC.
The BPA vs need well I think early if a transcendent talent somehow falls to you then you take him regardless of position. Otherwise it is more of BPA at a position of need, and we have plenty so we should have some good options.
Past players mentioned, I didn't buy Funchess as best WR on the board let alone player. And on top, we traded up for him. I think I probably held reasonable hope he'd develop into a good #2 but that was about it. He was young, so you could have some patience but it's hard to justify sticking with him after this past season.
Butler was sort of a wtf for me, drafting two years into the future which personally I do like that way of thinking but you had better have a stacked roster to do it with a 1st round pick. As to whether he was the best available, there are guys who turned out better, but I think some other teams liked him too. I do feel like you are adding risk to something that is already a gamble when you take a guy from a smaller school/lesser conference.
I didn't have a huge problem with Shaq but haven't seen what I expected or hoped. Can't win them all.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Dont get me wrong. Funchess was a head scratcher especially given the trade up. Butler was highly regarded but injury setbacks are hard to bake into the equation. And Shaq has shown promise if not so far consistently dazzling play. But with hindsight I am sure we could do better in every case. We could have made better decisions on our tackles a couple of years ago and be much better off today. This team has certainly made mistakes. And they have reached before for need with poor results. Bet we can all name a couple or 3. So for me rather than grab a guy a round early I'd try to grab the next Luke or CMC in those early rounds.
stratocatter
Footballguy
Cmac was BPA for us. If we did not have a QB nope, but he has held his own and then some. Love watching the guy play.
He will will end up being Gettleman's best move, better than Short after Star. I think.
It is the black cat curse, we finally have some fine skill players on offense and QB goes from sugar to sh....
He will will end up being Gettleman's best move, better than Short after Star. I think.
It is the black cat curse, we finally have some fine skill players on offense and QB goes from sugar to sh....
Jayrok
Footballguy
He's no Luke but I think Shaq has been fine at LB. Vernon hasn't been as good as hoped but he has been oft-injured. I didn't care much for the Funchess pick at the time. I wish we could hit a HR at the interior OL in this draft (C, G or OT). But I don't have a problem with BPA in the first round.
pantherclub
Footballguy
stratocatter
Footballguy
I actually wanted The Tennessee DE in the 1st and did think we could target Kamara later. Not because I am so brilliant in scouting college players or knew how much of an impact Kamara would have, it was really because of my draft philosophy which is keep the trenches strong and you can nearly always get a good RB later ( I was really pissed at Hurney when we took Stew and then traded back up for Otah). Kamara is one I thought would be a good pro and would possibly be there. Like when we took Stew; Forte I think, we could have had, and still had our LT and our future 1st. Never give up a future 1st. Just don't.
But McCaffrey is looking really good.
But McCaffrey is looking really good.
Jayrok
Footballguy
There are some players that I'd be happy to give up a future first round pick for...
As a Clemson fan, I admit I'm a little biased, but I'm telling you, this kid is special. 19 years old and is fearless in the pocket. Monday night's title game showed his poise and abilities on the grandest stage in college football.
Several years ago when Luck came out the saying was "suck for Luck". I imagine there will be teams that will think about "Tanking for Trevor" or something. I think he is a transcendent talent that will change a franchise and make them competitive for years to come. I'd love for him to be a Panther.
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pantherclub
Footballguy
We had a chance to get luck if ####### Jerry Richardson would have hire Harbaugh. Turns out he didnt even know who he was.
Jayrok
Footballguy
I remember this. Didn't Luck stay in school when we had the first pick? And we drafted Cam instead.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Yes but conventional wisdom and common knowledge says he would have followed his beloved college coach to the pros given the chance. When Jerry was asked about it following firing John Fox he looked completely out of touch and didnt even seem to know who he was.
stratocatter
Footballguy
Man, I was all for Luck over Cam if we'd have had a choice. Though Cam turned out about as good as I dared hope. If only he'd have been concerned about refining his techniques. Luck is one goofy looking dude though.
With a proven player in the league at least you are getting a known quantity vs a speculative value so yeah I would consider that. There is that thing where any player that is worth a first is probably gonna get a boatload of dough where you are trading a pick that should get you a good player at a controlled 5 year price. There are probably guys who are worth it but none come immediately to mind. A great LOT signed to a reasonable deal might get my attention. A quarterback but who would trade one that is really worth a first, for just a first?
I am not sure we have any that I would give a 1 for. Maybe Luke but doubtful with the concussion issues. Cam is sure not worth a first as things stand now, if I were buying.
I should have stipulated draft pick trades. Like moving back up into the first as we did in that Otah example using next year's first (plus whatever else there was... a 2nd and probably one more I don't remember). I don't mind giving future 4ths or 6ths so much but heck I'd have a real hard time giving up a 2nd to move up. Now would I trade my current first for a haul that included a 1 next year? Heck yes I would.
With a proven player in the league at least you are getting a known quantity vs a speculative value so yeah I would consider that. There is that thing where any player that is worth a first is probably gonna get a boatload of dough where you are trading a pick that should get you a good player at a controlled 5 year price. There are probably guys who are worth it but none come immediately to mind. A great LOT signed to a reasonable deal might get my attention. A quarterback but who would trade one that is really worth a first, for just a first?
I am not sure we have any that I would give a 1 for. Maybe Luke but doubtful with the concussion issues. Cam is sure not worth a first as things stand now, if I were buying.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Cam would definitely ner a first if his shoulder is good by the time of the trade. It isn't even a question.
Would you guys give up this years 1st for Antonio Brown? Pittsburgh wants to shop him. We have a strong connection to the Steelers. Would he be worth it? Is he too much of a diva?
Would you guys give up this years 1st for Antonio Brown? Pittsburgh wants to shop him. We have a strong connection to the Steelers. Would he be worth it? Is he too much of a diva?
pantherclub
Footballguy
stratocatter
Footballguy
I'd say no to Brown. The timing is just wrong. Why invest that when you may not have anyone to get him the ball? And if you have to acquire someone to get him the ball what is left to get him with?
Nothing against Brown in a football sense, he is great, but I want to stop losing at the LOS.
No comments on Rivera being named DC?
I thought Smitty had some great thoughts on it, heard him on WFNZ today. There is probably a podcast up.
Nothing against Brown in a football sense, he is great, but I want to stop losing at the LOS.
No comments on Rivera being named DC?
I thought Smitty had some great thoughts on it, heard him on WFNZ today. There is probably a podcast up.
NCCommish
Footballguy
I like Brown but I wouldn't want to trade a first rounder for him. Just had a lot of people tell me they think we should and thought I'd get you guys take on it to see if I was the crazy one. Apparently I'm not.
On Rivera I dont really like to see HC also coordinate. I think it's too much really. HC and DC are both full time jobs and require full focus. With that said the D improved noticeably under Ron so I guess we'll have to see.
simey
Footballguy
stratocatter
Footballguy
Smitty mentioned that Sean Payton is the Saints' OC. He mentioned that he thinks Eric Washington is a hell of a DL coach but not ready for DC. That he can learn under Ron for when he's ready, which Smitty thinks he can be. And we won't lose him.
Kicker is that, contrary to the opinions passionately promoted by many people with high post counts at a popular Panthers discussion board, Smitty thinks Rivera is among the best DCs around (you mean Ron is not a moron?). Innovative I believe was one of the words he used. And you guys probably remember Smitty has said some uncomplimentary things about Rivera in the past. It was a good few minutes of radio from him today, I thought. Even had a Jeff Davidson reference tossed in
Not that Rivera does not have his faults. I just think most are exaggerated. I do believe he needs to hire an analytical assistant type to help with timeouts and stuff like that.
Kicker is that, contrary to the opinions passionately promoted by many people with high post counts at a popular Panthers discussion board, Smitty thinks Rivera is among the best DCs around (you mean Ron is not a moron?). Innovative I believe was one of the words he used. And you guys probably remember Smitty has said some uncomplimentary things about Rivera in the past. It was a good few minutes of radio from him today, I thought. Even had a Jeff Davidson reference tossed in
Not that Rivera does not have his faults. I just think most are exaggerated. I do believe he needs to hire an analytical assistant type to help with timeouts and stuff like that.
stratocatter
Footballguy
Very sad day. He is a top five all time Panther if not Top 1. Dammit. I get it but still.
If TD is gone, wonder who else is... Olsen, probably see ya too. Munnerlyn has NO shot lol.
Wonder if they are now really gonna pay Shaq 8 or 9 mil whatever it is,
If TD is gone, wonder who else is... Olsen, probably see ya too. Munnerlyn has NO shot lol.
Wonder if they are now really gonna pay Shaq 8 or 9 mil whatever it is,
Just listened to it.
https://wfnz.radio.com/blogs/clubhouse-kyle-bailey/steve-smith-ron-rivera-calling-panthers-defense-2019-i-dont-see-problem
And I feel like I'm a bit dumber after listening to it. Great player and one of my favorites on the field, but I've forgotten more about football than this clown knows.
NCCommish
Footballguy
End of an era. I do think time is starting to catch up to him. Saw him miss tackles he never would've before. And he seems to have lost some recovery speed for when he gets out of position. Still one of the all time Panthers. I can't imagine he won't retire as a Panther.
pantherclub
Footballguy
True. Its sad but part of it. The missing tackles and weird angles he took this year told me the time finally had caught up. Another thing that nobody seems to mention is that I also noticed Luke wasnt his usual self this season. Missed a lot of tackles and assignments during games. He was still good but it was strange seeing people run through him at times.
simey
Footballguy
I think the root problem of many timeouts is Cam. He needs to be more aware of the time clock, and get back to the line or huddle quicker. Sometimes I think he is rattled from some of the hits he takes, and that makes him lose track of how much time has already ticked off the clock, cause it happens most often when he has just ran the ball.
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simey
Footballguy
I knew what you were going to post before even looking. I don't think it is that, and other QBs do the first down sign too (Rivers did this past weekend after he ran for a first), but they make it back to the line in time to get the ball off before time expires.
.
simey
Footballguy
Sean McVay, Andy Reid, Mike McCarthy, Kyle Shanahan, Frank Reich, Adam Gase, Pat Shurmur, Bill O'Brien, and Doug Pederson all called their offensive plays in 2018. I think John and Jay Gruden also were the offensive play callers in 2018.
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Jayrok
Footballguy
So rumors of missing next season for Cam. If he has the same problem as A. Luck, does he also have the same work ethic to come back strong from it? I think so, but what do we do in the meantime? What do we do if he doesn't? Should we wait and see and go with Kyle Allen as starter in '19?
Other options... Nick Foles? Hard pass for me. Think he'll want too much for what he's done in relief of Wentz. I'd rather have Wentz. Foles has been playing on house money the last two seasons as a guy who comes in and rallies the troops. What does he do as a starter at the beginning of the season where there's pressure/expectations of continued magic. No thanks.
Teddy Bridgewater? He wants a starting job. Maybe. I think he'd perform well in a Panther uniform.
Rent Ryan Fitzpatrick for a year? yeesh, I don't know.
To sign either of those guys, or anyone else, they'd probably need to move some cap space. Release people and contracts like Munnerlyn and Matt Kalil might be a good start.
Other options... Nick Foles? Hard pass for me. Think he'll want too much for what he's done in relief of Wentz. I'd rather have Wentz. Foles has been playing on house money the last two seasons as a guy who comes in and rallies the troops. What does he do as a starter at the beginning of the season where there's pressure/expectations of continued magic. No thanks.
Teddy Bridgewater? He wants a starting job. Maybe. I think he'd perform well in a Panther uniform.
Rent Ryan Fitzpatrick for a year? yeesh, I don't know.
To sign either of those guys, or anyone else, they'd probably need to move some cap space. Release people and contracts like Munnerlyn and Matt Kalil might be a good start.
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