The Death/Loss Of Religion In America (2 Viewers)

[dgreen]

Yeah, I like Father Mike's thought that using a word without intention can be problematic. If someone claims to be a follower of God, shouldn't they think more about how they use the word "God" and not approach it so flippantly?

For another perspective on the third commandment, check out Carmen Imes' book Bearing God's Name: Why Sinai Still Matters. Her proposal is that we should read it as "don't bear God's name in vain" and she uses the metaphor of an athlete wearing their team's jersey. When they bear that jersey, they represent the team. If you claim allegiance to God, you should bear his name well by representing him well. What you do, reflects him. I like that she interprets the commandment to a larger principle rather than a more narrow singular act of words we say (that's my understanding of how ancient laws worked - the example of the singular act should drive you towards a larger principle).

Now, having said that, I know some people who have read Imes' book and somehow took that as license to say "Oh my God". They'll say, "Well, what it really meant in that culture was to bear his name well. It's not a commandment about whether or not you say 'Oh my God'." To which I'd reply, "Ok, well, do you think you are bearing God's name well and representing him well to others when you say 'Oh my God'?"

I really like @Sullie 's last post on how he's been working on his language for a long time. I think everyone, regardless of who or what ideal they follow, should consider how their words (and actions!) represent that ideal and work towards improvement. It's good to hear others struggle, too, to make incremental improvements over long periods of time. I'm not alone there.

 

[dgreen]

is now a bad time to ask about the way people dressing and what they’d have been thrown in jail for back in the day? That one has me shuked

People used to dress more modest. I was walking into Walmart the other day and out comes this young lady in her bikini. Several others inside were wearing shear cover-ups over bathing suits. You may not agree, but to me it is because of a lack of morals that this is acceptable. Maybe because of a lack of religious instruction. But people see this now everywhere in entertainment and it somehow is acceptable when it did not use to be. People used to be thrown in jail for public nudity. I think that rarely happens today.

I've definitely been pretty surprised at how many young girls dress at HS football games. I'm not sure if they hide their outfit when they leave the house or if the parents just don't care. I guess based on the types of pictures many teens will openly post on social media, I'd conclude some parents don't care. I'm not sure I see it as having to do with religion or some larger national moral decline, but I think there's definitely been a change in attitudes towards this stuff.

There's a very simple explanation for why young women started dressing very immodestly about 10 years ago, and it has to do with the fact that colleges now skew about 60-40 female. That's all it is.

Can you (anyone) name 1 generation in the last 4 that didn’t feel like the young people of the “current” generation didn’t dress less modestly then theirs? It’s one of the classic middle age and old person tropes. “Back in my day…. “ it’s right up there with “work ethic” and “lacking respect”

Are you saying teenagers and college-age girls dress with about the same modesty as those of the previous 4 generations?

 

[Captain Cranks]

Are you saying teenagers and college-age girls dress with about the same modesty as those of the previous 4 generations?

I took what he said to mean that it's a continuation of a longer term trend of women dressing less modestly and shouldn't be viewed as just a 10 year phenomenon.

Kinda like every generation thinks their kid's music sucks.

 

[General Malaise]

I think we're grossly understating how much the internet and social media have impacted most of the topics we've discussed in this thread (how women dress, increased isolation, access to information, etc.)

The people who cared about how women dress are either dead or dying. I'm 51 - GenX. Our generation is driving the bus right now. We don't care how women dress. Janet Jackson's Nipple 20 years ago threw this country into a grand mal seizure. Those puritans who cried about it are gone or have relinquished power. WE - the Royal We - us.....don't care.

We legalized weed. We cay say God D**n on TV and radio. The people outraged at JLo and Shakira shaking their thangs at a recent SB got laughed back to the dark corners of their outdated world views. We don't care if a man marries a man - in fact, we support it.

It's a sea change. A good one. We have information available to us in nanoseconds. We don't have to wait for a paper to get our news. Religion was used by mankind to keep the masses ignorant and illiterate. That's a fact. That's why the Bible remained in Latin for so long and people were discouraged from learning how to read.

We are evolving faster and faster and soon enough, our generation will relinquish power to a new generation of folks who have even less use for religion or outdated puritanical ideals of what a woman should wear or who should get married or what I smoke outside in my home. Soon enough, religion here will be but a footnote.

Imo

I think you assessment is skewed by you personal and ideas of morality.

In other words, that's just like you're opinion, man.

Well, yeah.....I know. That's why are the end of my screed I wrote IMO which stands for In My OPINION.

Just one man's opinion, which I'm told is often wrong by my wife and loved ones, so....

 

[General Malaise]

is now a bad time to ask about the way people dressing and what they’d have been thrown in jail for back in the day? That one has me shuked

People used to dress more modest. I was walking into Walmart the other day and out comes this young lady in her bikini. Several others inside were wearing shear cover-ups over bathing suits. You may not agree, but to me it is because of a lack of morals that this is acceptable. Maybe because of a lack of religious instruction. But people see this now everywhere in entertainment and it somehow is acceptable when it did not use to be. People used to be thrown in jail for public nudity. I think that rarely happens today.

I've definitely been pretty surprised at how many young girls dress at HS football games. I'm not sure if they hide their outfit when they leave the house or if the parents just don't care. I guess based on the types of pictures many teens will openly post on social media, I'd conclude some parents don't care. I'm not sure I see it as having to do with religion or some larger national moral decline, but I think there's definitely been a change in attitudes towards this stuff.

There's a very simple explanation for why young women started dressing very immodestly about 10 years ago, and it has to do with the fact that colleges now skew about 60-40 female. That's all it is.

Can you (anyone) name 1 generation in the last 4 that didn’t feel like the young people of the “current” generation didn’t dress less modestly then theirs? It’s one of the classic middle age and old person tropes. “Back in my day…. “ it’s right up there with “work ethic” and “lacking respect”

Are you saying teenagers and college-age girls dress with about the same modesty as those of the previous 4 generations?

Did you not watch MTV Spring Break in the 90s because I sure did and boy, lemme tell you.....that was at least ONE generation ago and buddy!

 

[AAABatteries]

I think I'm less sure of the future than you are there and have less certainty about how everything will go. You definitely seem to have much more figured out about everything than I do.

The trend certainly supports his thesis, both in the short and long term. A more interesting question for me is whether humanity replaces it with atheistic community structures. I know there is a yearning for this by some in the atheist community who do acknowledge the personal and social benefits of belonging to a "church".

How would that work? I mean - while most churches focus a lot on community and groups it’s still centered around God/deity and fostering a relationship and worshipping the same. I’m unclear what an atheist community would be - unless it’s just clubs which we already have.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

is now a bad time to ask about the way people dressing and what they’d have been thrown in jail for back in the day? That one has me shuked

People used to dress more modest. I was walking into Walmart the other day and out comes this young lady in her bikini. Several others inside were wearing shear cover-ups over bathing suits. You may not agree, but to me it is because of a lack of morals that this is acceptable. Maybe because of a lack of religious instruction. But people see this now everywhere in entertainment and it somehow is acceptable when it did not use to be. People used to be thrown in jail for public nudity. I think that rarely happens today.

I've definitely been pretty surprised at how many young girls dress at HS football games. I'm not sure if they hide their outfit when they leave the house or if the parents just don't care. I guess based on the types of pictures many teens will openly post on social media, I'd conclude some parents don't care. I'm not sure I see it as having to do with religion or some larger national moral decline, but I think there's definitely been a change in attitudes towards this stuff.

There's a very simple explanation for why young women started dressing very immodestly about 10 years ago, and it has to do with the fact that colleges now skew about 60-40 female. That's all it is.

Can you (anyone) name 1 generation in the last 4 that didn’t feel like the young people of the “current” generation didn’t dress less modestly then theirs? It’s one of the classic middle age and old person tropes. “Back in my day…. “ it’s right up there with “work ethic” and “lacking respect”

Are you saying teenagers and college-age girls dress with about the same modesty as those of the previous 4 generations?

I resolved a few years ago to try to avoid arguments of the "what color is the sky?" variety. I've lived my entire life surrounded by a sea of young people. I can look out my window right now and see them walking by. In three weeks or so, we'll have snow on the ground, the dire wolves will be afoot, and everybody will be bundled up under 13 layers of stuff. But for a brief period every fall and spring, I get to see the latest trends in youth fashion in the upper Midwest. I can see this with my own two eyes, so it's not really the kind of thing that I can be talked out of.

But what do I know. Maybe it's totally different in other parts of the country. Maybe young women are still wearing knee-length shorts in his area. I have no way of knowing that, and if that poster wants to tell me that that's the style that he observes, cool. We just live in slightly different worlds. No point in arguing about it.

 

[dgreen]

is now a bad time to ask about the way people dressing and what they’d have been thrown in jail for back in the day? That one has me shuked

People used to dress more modest. I was walking into Walmart the other day and out comes this young lady in her bikini. Several others inside were wearing shear cover-ups over bathing suits. You may not agree, but to me it is because of a lack of morals that this is acceptable. Maybe because of a lack of religious instruction. But people see this now everywhere in entertainment and it somehow is acceptable when it did not use to be. People used to be thrown in jail for public nudity. I think that rarely happens today.

I've definitely been pretty surprised at how many young girls dress at HS football games. I'm not sure if they hide their outfit when they leave the house or if the parents just don't care. I guess based on the types of pictures many teens will openly post on social media, I'd conclude some parents don't care. I'm not sure I see it as having to do with religion or some larger national moral decline, but I think there's definitely been a change in attitudes towards this stuff.

There's a very simple explanation for why young women started dressing very immodestly about 10 years ago, and it has to do with the fact that colleges now skew about 60-40 female. That's all it is.

Can you (anyone) name 1 generation in the last 4 that didn’t feel like the young people of the “current” generation didn’t dress less modestly then theirs? It’s one of the classic middle age and old person tropes. “Back in my day…. “ it’s right up there with “work ethic” and “lacking respect”

Are you saying teenagers and college-age girls dress with about the same modesty as those of the previous 4 generations?

Did you not watch MTV Spring Break in the 90s because I sure did and boy, lemme tell you.....that was at least ONE generation ago and buddy!

My comment about what I've observed underaged girls wearing at HS football games wasn't an attempt to make a larger claim that females have never presented themselves with minimal clothing.

 

[dkp993]

Are you saying teenagers and college-age girls dress with about the same modesty as those of the previous 4 generations?

I took what he said to mean that it's a continuation of a longer term trend of women dressing less modestly and shouldn't be viewed as just a 10 year phenomenon.

Kinda like every generation thinks their kid's music sucks.

This

 

[Joe Bryant]

I resolved a few years ago to try to avoid arguments of the "what color is the sky?" variety. I've lived my entire life surrounded by a sea of young people. I can look out my window right now and see them walking by. In three weeks or so, we'll have snow on the ground, the dire wolves will be afoot, and everybody will be bundled up under 13 layers of stuff. But for a brief period every fall and spring, I get to see the latest trends in youth fashion in the upper Midwest. I can see this with my own two eyes, so it's not really the kind of thing that I can be talked out of.

But what do I know. Maybe it's totally different in other parts of the country. Maybe young women are still wearing knee-length shorts in his area. I have no way of knowing that, and if that poster wants to tell me that that's the style that he observes, cool. We just live in slightly different worlds. No point in arguing about it.

I try to do more of this too. I think it was Keanu Reeves that said something like, "I'm at a point in my life where if someone says '2+2=5', I just say, 'You're right, have fun.'"

 

[Joe Bryant]

We did a little of this in the Brandon Aiyuk thread this summer where some folks seemed to be personally offended I cared what a person I follow in Twitter said.

I had less than zero interest in changing their mind about the person. I only care what I think about the person.

 

[dgreen]

is now a bad time to ask about the way people dressing and what they’d have been thrown in jail for back in the day? That one has me shuked

People used to dress more modest. I was walking into Walmart the other day and out comes this young lady in her bikini. Several others inside were wearing shear cover-ups over bathing suits. You may not agree, but to me it is because of a lack of morals that this is acceptable. Maybe because of a lack of religious instruction. But people see this now everywhere in entertainment and it somehow is acceptable when it did not use to be. People used to be thrown in jail for public nudity. I think that rarely happens today.

I've definitely been pretty surprised at how many young girls dress at HS football games. I'm not sure if they hide their outfit when they leave the house or if the parents just don't care. I guess based on the types of pictures many teens will openly post on social media, I'd conclude some parents don't care. I'm not sure I see it as having to do with religion or some larger national moral decline, but I think there's definitely been a change in attitudes towards this stuff.

There's a very simple explanation for why young women started dressing very immodestly about 10 years ago, and it has to do with the fact that colleges now skew about 60-40 female. That's all it is.

Can you (anyone) name 1 generation in the last 4 that didn’t feel like the young people of the “current” generation didn’t dress less modestly then theirs? It’s one of the classic middle age and old person tropes. “Back in my day…. “ it’s right up there with “work ethic” and “lacking respect”

Are you saying teenagers and college-age girls dress with about the same modesty as those of the previous 4 generations?

I resolved a few years ago to try to avoid arguments of the "what color is the sky?" variety. I've lived my entire life surrounded by a sea of young people. I can look out my window right now and see them walking by. In three weeks or so, we'll have snow on the ground, the dire wolves will be afoot, and everybody will be bundled up under 13 layers of stuff. But for a brief period every fall and spring, I get to see the latest trends in youth fashion in the upper Midwest. I can see this with my own two eyes, so it's not really the kind of thing that I can be talked out of.

But what do I know. Maybe it's totally different in other parts of the country. Maybe young women are still wearing knee-length shorts in his area. I have no way of knowing that, and if that poster wants to tell me that that's the style that he observes, cool. We just live in slightly different worlds. No point in arguing about it.

Agree. I'm honestly not trying to argue. But, I do now realize that starting off "Are you saying..." is a typical way to be argumentative. I could have asked that question to more directly ask him what he observes.

 

[Joe Bryant]

On the flip side, I am interested in what people think. Especially when it's different than what I think.

So I might be like Keanu Reeves in not trying to argue with them. But I am interested in what they think and more importantly why.

 

[Joe Bryant]

But, I do now realize that starting off "Are you saying..." is a typical way to be argumentative.

Interesting. I don't think that at all.

I often will ask that to make sure I understand what they are saying. And that I'm not misinterpreting what they are saying. Or assuming something they don't mean.

When I ask if this is what they are saying, I mean it to be asking if that is what they are saying.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

y!

My comment about what I've observed underaged girls wearing at HS football games wasn't an attempt to make a larger claim that females have never presented themselves with minimal clothing.

I literally just dealt with my 17 yo daughter going to the HS football game wearing little more than an Orange Safety Vest because it was "Orange Out" night.
Then I saw what her friends were wearing and decided we weren't the worst parents in the world.

 

[dkp993]

is now a bad time to ask about the way people dressing and what they’d have been thrown in jail for back in the day? That one has me shuked

People used to dress more modest. I was walking into Walmart the other day and out comes this young lady in her bikini. Several others inside were wearing shear cover-ups over bathing suits. You may not agree, but to me it is because of a lack of morals that this is acceptable. Maybe because of a lack of religious instruction. But people see this now everywhere in entertainment and it somehow is acceptable when it did not use to be. People used to be thrown in jail for public nudity. I think that rarely happens today.

I've definitely been pretty surprised at how many young girls dress at HS football games. I'm not sure if they hide their outfit when they leave the house or if the parents just don't care. I guess based on the types of pictures many teens will openly post on social media, I'd conclude some parents don't care. I'm not sure I see it as having to do with religion or some larger national moral decline, but I think there's definitely been a change in attitudes towards this stuff.

There's a very simple explanation for why young women started dressing very immodestly about 10 years ago, and it has to do with the fact that colleges now skew about 60-40 female. That's all it is.

Can you (anyone) name 1 generation in the last 4 that didn’t feel like the young people of the “current” generation didn’t dress less modestly then theirs? It’s one of the classic middle age and old person tropes. “Back in my day…. “ it’s right up there with “work ethic” and “lacking respect”

Are you saying teenagers and college-age girls dress with about the same modesty as those of the previous 4 generations?

I resolved a few years ago to try to avoid arguments of the "what color is the sky?" variety. I've lived my entire life surrounded by a sea of young people. I can look out my window right now and see them walking by. In three weeks or so, we'll have snow on the ground, the dire wolves will be afoot, and everybody will be bundled up under 13 layers of stuff. But for a brief period every fall and spring, I get to see the latest trends in youth fashion in the upper Midwest. I can see this with my own two eyes, so it's not really the kind of thing that I can be talked out of.

But what do I know. Maybe it's totally different in other parts of the country. Maybe young women are still wearing knee-length shorts in his area. I have no way of knowing that, and if that poster wants to tell me that that's the style that he observes, cool. We just live in slightly different worlds. No point in arguing about it.

I wasn’t arguing with you. I was addressing the string of post in general and I was merely pointing out that I think it’s been trend that has been going on for generations. Your theory about the ratio of girls at colleges could very well be the factor. I think it has something more to do with women finding their freedom and power over the generations. Regardless, I was merely pointing out that it’s a long running thing that’s been happening and it certainly hasn’t been isolated to only recently.

 

[dgreen]

But, I do now realize that starting off "Are you saying..." is a typical way to be argumentative.

Interesting. I don't think that at all.

I often will ask that to make sure I understand what they are saying. And that I'm not misinterpreting what they are saying. Or assuming something they don't mean.

When I ask if this is what they are saying, I mean it to be asking if that is what they are saying.

That's how I meant it, more in the literal sense of asking if that's what he was saying. But, that type of phrasing is often used to take what someone is saying and then suggest they are saying something more extreme.

"I don't think the Ravens looked very good last night."

"Are you saying you think they'll have a top 5 pick next year!?!?"

That kind of thing.

 

[Captain Cranks]

I try to do more of this too. I think it was Keanu Reeves that said something like, "I'm at a point in my life where if someone says '2+2=5', I just say, 'You're right, have fun.'"

There's a difference between a person's experience and the conclusions they draw from that experience. Some like to assign a disagreement with the latter as a disagreement with the former.

 

[dkp993]

is now a bad time to ask about the way people dressing and what they’d have been thrown in jail for back in the day? That one has me shuked

People used to dress more modest. I was walking into Walmart the other day and out comes this young lady in her bikini. Several others inside were wearing shear cover-ups over bathing suits. You may not agree, but to me it is because of a lack of morals that this is acceptable. Maybe because of a lack of religious instruction. But people see this now everywhere in entertainment and it somehow is acceptable when it did not use to be. People used to be thrown in jail for public nudity. I think that rarely happens today.

I've definitely been pretty surprised at how many young girls dress at HS football games. I'm not sure if they hide their outfit when they leave the house or if the parents just don't care. I guess based on the types of pictures many teens will openly post on social media, I'd conclude some parents don't care. I'm not sure I see it as having to do with religion or some larger national moral decline, but I think there's definitely been a change in attitudes towards this stuff.

There's a very simple explanation for why young women started dressing very immodestly about 10 years ago, and it has to do with the fact that colleges now skew about 60-40 female. That's all it is.

Can you (anyone) name 1 generation in the last 4 that didn’t feel like the young people of the “current” generation didn’t dress less modestly then theirs? It’s one of the classic middle age and old person tropes. “Back in my day…. “ it’s right up there with “work ethic” and “lacking respect”

Are you saying teenagers and college-age girls dress with about the same modesty as those of the previous 4 generations?

I resolved a few years ago to try to avoid arguments of the "what color is the sky?" variety. I've lived my entire life surrounded by a sea of young people. I can look out my window right now and see them walking by. In three weeks or so, we'll have snow on the ground, the dire wolves will be afoot, and everybody will be bundled up under 13 layers of stuff. But for a brief period every fall and spring, I get to see the latest trends in youth fashion in the upper Midwest. I can see this with my own two eyes, so it's not really the kind of thing that I can be talked out of.

But what do I know. Maybe it's totally different in other parts of the country. Maybe young women are still wearing knee-length shorts in his area. I have no way of knowing that, and if that poster wants to tell me that that's the style that he observes, cool. We just live in slightly different worlds. No point in arguing about it.

Agree. I'm honestly not trying to argue. But, I do now realize that starting off "Are you saying..." is a typical way to be argumentative. I could have asked that question to more directly ask him what he observes.

For the record I didn’t find your post argumentative. I thought you were just asking me a question and had Cranks not answered I would have.

 

[Zow]

is now a bad time to ask about the way people dressing and what they’d have been thrown in jail for back in the day? That one has me shuked

People used to dress more modest. I was walking into Walmart the other day and out comes this young lady in her bikini. Several others inside were wearing shear cover-ups over bathing suits. You may not agree, but to me it is because of a lack of morals that this is acceptable. Maybe because of a lack of religious instruction. But people see this now everywhere in entertainment and it somehow is acceptable when it did not use to be. People used to be thrown in jail for public nudity. I think that rarely happens today.

I've definitely been pretty surprised at how many young girls dress at HS football games. I'm not sure if they hide their outfit when they leave the house or if the parents just don't care. I guess based on the types of pictures many teens will openly post on social media, I'd conclude some parents don't care. I'm not sure I see it as having to do with religion or some larger national moral decline, but I think there's definitely been a change in attitudes towards this stuff.

There's a very simple explanation for why young women started dressing very immodestly about 10 years ago, and it has to do with the fact that colleges now skew about 60-40 female. That's all it is.

Can you (anyone) name 1 generation in the last 4 that didn’t feel like the young people of the “current” generation didn’t dress less modestly then theirs? It’s one of the classic middle age and old person tropes. “Back in my day…. “ it’s right up there with “work ethic” and “lacking respect”

Are you saying teenagers and college-age girls dress with about the same modesty as those of the previous 4 generations?

Did you not watch MTV Spring Break in the 90s because I sure did and boy, lemme tell you.....that was at least ONE generation ago and buddy!

Yep. The Lake Havasu channel even permitted pasties back then (which the city then outlawed shortly before I moved there ).

 

[Captain Cranks]

I literally just dealt with my 17 yo daughter going to the HS football game wearing little more than an Orange Safety Vest because it was "Orange Out" night.
Then I saw what her friends were wearing and decided we weren't the worst parents in the world.

There's a good chance that whatever they were wearing will be considered modest relative to what their kids wear in 20 years.

 

[Zow]

When somebody says “If I were” it means they aren’t, in general terms, doing that which they follow it with. It’s the subjunctive.

Woz, I don’t even know what to say. You just took a page to refute something nobody had done.

I think it's called "apologetics."

 

[Joe Bryant]

But, I do now realize that starting off "Are you saying..." is a typical way to be argumentative.

Interesting. I don't think that at all.

I often will ask that to make sure I understand what they are saying. And that I'm not misinterpreting what they are saying. Or assuming something they don't mean.

When I ask if this is what they are saying, I mean it to be asking if that is what they are saying.

That's how I meant it, more in the literal sense of asking if that's what he was saying. But, that type of phrasing is often used to take what someone is saying and then suggest they are saying something more extreme.

"I don't think the Ravens looked very good last night."

"Are you saying you think they'll have a top 5 pick next year!?!?"

That kind of thing.

Thanks. I see what you mean.

I think it's important to make sure when one asks this that they are seeking clarity. In that way, and that's how I try to do it, I don't see it as argumentative at all. It's more respecting the other person and wanting to make sure you understand them.

It's the Steven Covey, "Seek first to understand. Then to be understood" thing.

 

[Zow]

I think we're grossly understating how much the internet and social media have impacted most of the topics we've discussed in this thread (how women dress, increased isolation, access to information, etc.)

The people who cared about how women dress are either dead or dying. I'm 51 - GenX. Our generation is driving the bus right now. We don't care how women dress. Janet Jackson's Nipple 20 years ago threw this country into a grand mal seizure. Those puritans who cried about it are gone or have relinquished power. WE - the Royal We - us.....don't care.

We legalized weed. We cay say God D**n on TV and radio. The people outraged at JLo and Shakira shaking their thangs at a recent SB got laughed back to the dark corners of their outdated world views. We don't care if a man marries a man - in fact, we support it.

It's a sea change. A good one. We have information available to us in nanoseconds. We don't have to wait for a paper to get our news. Religion was used by mankind to keep the masses ignorant and illiterate. That's a fact. That's why the Bible remained in Latin for so long and people were discouraged from learning how to read.

We are evolving faster and faster and soon enough, our generation will relinquish power to a new generation of folks who have even less use for religion or outdated puritanical ideals of what a woman should wear or who should get married or what I smoke outside in my home. Soon enough, religion here will be but a footnote.

Imo

I'm not preaching/scolding or anything at you but that expression caught my attention. And, again, I know everyone says it so this isn't necessarily directed at you just for everyone that's reading this. And I started to write a big thing out but I stopped myself because I'm not the correct person who can eloquently explain why saying this is a problem. I believe that Fr. Mike Schmitz does a fantastic job of explaining why taking the Lord's name in vain is a problem, without being preachy, without being judgmental but rather explaining it in well formed thoughts and words. Please consider giving it a view.

An interesting video. Thanks for bringing up the issue. I’ll need to think on it a bit as I have always had a different take on what it means to take the Lord’s name in vain. If it’s a sin to say Oh my God in surprise because you are using His name without intentional awareness and reverence, that would mean saying God bless you when someone sneezes is similarly a sin.

I gave it a watch. The priest is a really good public speaker and relatable so kudos to him. Further, he presents a clear and concise argument as to why using G/god's name can be a mortal sin and, frankly, this was my dogmatic interpretation from a couple decades ago as well. In other words, I think this priest is spot on with his interpretation of the "sin" and how behaviors need to be corrected to be in line with the Ten Commandments. He also correctly defines "in vain" which I do think is a phrase whereby most don't understand what it means.

However, while I think the priest is correct in dogmatic interpretation, I still struggle mightily with the "big picture meaning" of the whole thing. The priest correctly points out that "thou shall not take the Lord's name" is in the top three of the Ten Commandments (included amongst two other Commandments which, frankly, focus solely on G/god commanding that we worship on H/him like some 14 year old girl). The priest then argues that we need to take this Commandment more seriously because the Commandments are effectively ranked in order of importance. So, the logical takeaway and extension here, is that G/god apparently cares more about whether people say his name in a way H/he doesn't like (even if they do so without cognizant ill intent) than if somebody murders (6th Commandment) or rapes (7th and 10th Commandments) somebody. While I suppose this logical takeaway shouldn't be surprising given that the Old Testament portrays G/god as a jealous homicidal maniac who endorses slavery, it is still just striking to me that issues like cursing take such a high priority in the Catholic/Christian faith(s) when there are objectively worse things out there to focus on.

Tl;dr: I think the priest is 100% correct in dogmatic interpretation but it just further demonstrates that G/god is kind of a jealous jerkface with seriously skewed values.

 

[General Malaise]

is now a bad time to ask about the way people dressing and what they’d have been thrown in jail for back in the day? That one has me shuked

People used to dress more modest. I was walking into Walmart the other day and out comes this young lady in her bikini. Several others inside were wearing shear cover-ups over bathing suits. You may not agree, but to me it is because of a lack of morals that this is acceptable. Maybe because of a lack of religious instruction. But people see this now everywhere in entertainment and it somehow is acceptable when it did not use to be. People used to be thrown in jail for public nudity. I think that rarely happens today.

I've definitely been pretty surprised at how many young girls dress at HS football games. I'm not sure if they hide their outfit when they leave the house or if the parents just don't care. I guess based on the types of pictures many teens will openly post on social media, I'd conclude some parents don't care. I'm not sure I see it as having to do with religion or some larger national moral decline, but I think there's definitely been a change in attitudes towards this stuff.

There's a very simple explanation for why young women started dressing very immodestly about 10 years ago, and it has to do with the fact that colleges now skew about 60-40 female. That's all it is.

Can you (anyone) name 1 generation in the last 4 that didn’t feel like the young people of the “current” generation didn’t dress less modestly then theirs? It’s one of the classic middle age and old person tropes. “Back in my day…. “ it’s right up there with “work ethic” and “lacking respect”

Are you saying teenagers and college-age girls dress with about the same modesty as those of the previous 4 generations?

Did you not watch MTV Spring Break in the 90s because I sure did and boy, lemme tell you.....that was at least ONE generation ago and buddy!

My comment about what I've observed underaged girls wearing at HS football games wasn't an attempt to make a larger claim that females have never presented themselves with minimal clothing.

You also had a question: Are you saying teenagers and college-age girls dress with about the same modesty as those of the previous 4 generations?

I attempted to answer by saying teenagers and college-age girls ARE dressing with about the same modesty of at least ONE previous generation - the 90s. I'm citing Music Television as my source here.

 

[dgreen]

You also had a question: Are you saying teenagers and college-age girls dress with about the same modesty as those of the previous 4 generations?

I attempted to answer by saying teenagers and college-age girls ARE dressing with about the same modesty of at least ONE previous generation - the 90s. I'm citing Music Television as my source here.

And my last post was attempting to say that I understand spring break on MTV is an example of women wearing little clothing, but I find that to be irrelevant to what's worn to HS football games. An MTV spring break show is a different context. The beach is a different context. If someone goes to the beach, they expect to see a lot of skin. And maybe it's silly and inconsistent to consider that level of clothing at the beach to be relatively "modest" while considering it "immodest" at a HS football game.

I was actually just thinking about the movie Mean Girls and the scene about the Halloween party. That movie was 20 years ago so also just one pervious generation. That scene talked about how Halloween parties are just an excuse for HS girls to dress in slutty costumes (IIRC, I'm using the movies language and I'm making no comment regarding whether they are or aren't "slutty"). Teenagers behaving sexual is nothing new. So, it's not lost on me that there have been (and will continue to be) contexts in which less clothing is worn, even among underage HSers. However, to me, a private Halloween party in someone's house is different than a HS football game in front of the community. Again, maybe that's silly and inconsistent, but those varying contexts do tend to affect how I think about things. It just seems different.

 

[dutch]

Women used to wear body suits and tights on the beach and full length skirts around town while men wore fedoras and trousers everywhere; June wore pearl necklace(tee-hee) and heels to greet Ward. Now, men wear shorts whenever they can including to church(Catholic anyway) and golf while women, and girls, wear bikinis at the beach and comfy jammy pants around town. Times change, I can't think of a more relaxed time in out culture as far a dress goes and I like it. Casual Fridays have become tie-less everydays unless your schedule dictates otherwise. And yes, todays music is the worst ever, kids today are lazy and disrespectful and girls are dressing more provocative than ever. But I'm not old or judgey.

 

[dutch]

If it’s a sin to say Oh my God in surprise because you are using His name without intentional awareness and reverence, that would mean saying God bless you when someone sneezes is similarly a sin.

Not if you subscribe to one of the theories for how this tradition came to be.

Some have offered an explanation suggesting that people once held the folk belief that a person's soul could be thrown from their body when they sneezed, that sneezing otherwise opened the body to invasion by the Devil or evil spirits, or that sneezing was the body's effort to force out an invading evil presence. In these cases, "God bless you" or "bless you" is used as a sort of shield against evil. The Irish Folk story "Master and Man" by Thomas Crofton Croker, collected by William Butler Yeats, describes this variation. Moreover, in the past some people may have thought that the heart stops beating during a sneeze, and that the phrase "God bless you" encourages the heart to continue beating.

In some cultures, sneezing is seen as a sign of good fortune or God's beneficence. Writing around 400 BC, Xenophon records a chance sneeze as being seen as a good omen from god. Alternative responses to sneezing exist in various languages.

God bless you - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My sister and BIL are Jehova's and they never say god bless you or oh my god, those are stringent proscriptions and are insults to them.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

But, I do now realize that starting off "Are you saying..." is a typical way to be argumentative.

Interesting. I don't think that at all.

I often will ask that to make sure I understand what they are saying. And that I'm not misinterpreting what they are saying. Or assuming something they don't mean.

When I ask if this is what they are saying, I mean it to be asking if that is what they are saying.

That's how I meant it, more in the literal sense of asking if that's what he was saying. But, that type of phrasing is often used to take what someone is saying and then suggest they are saying something more extreme.

"I don't think the Ravens looked very good last night."

"Are you saying you think they'll have a top 5 pick next year!?!?"

That kind of thing.

Isn't this called a Straw Man? Or am I misusing that phrase?

 

[dgreen]

But, I do now realize that starting off "Are you saying..." is a typical way to be argumentative.

Interesting. I don't think that at all.

I often will ask that to make sure I understand what they are saying. And that I'm not misinterpreting what they are saying. Or assuming something they don't mean.

When I ask if this is what they are saying, I mean it to be asking if that is what they are saying.

That's how I meant it, more in the literal sense of asking if that's what he was saying. But, that type of phrasing is often used to take what someone is saying and then suggest they are saying something more extreme.

"I don't think the Ravens looked very good last night."

"Are you saying you think they'll have a top 5 pick next year!?!?"

That kind of thing.

Isn't this called a Straw Man? Or am I misusing that phrase?

Yeah, I think that can fit in the strawman category of rhetorical devices.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Women used to wear body suits and tights on the beach and full length skirts around town while men wore fedoras and trousers everywhere; June wore pearl necklace(tee-hee) and heels to greet Ward. Now, men wear shorts whenever they can including to church(Catholic anyway) and golf while women, and girls, wear bikinis at the beach and comfy jammy pants around town. Times change, I can't think of a more relaxed time in out culture as far a dress goes and I like it. Casual Fridays have become tie-less everydays unless your schedule dictates otherwise. And yes, todays music is the worst ever, kids today are lazy and disrespectful and girls are dressing more provocative than ever. But I'm not old or judgey.

Even my conservative mother laughed at June Cleaver walking around the house wearing a necklace and high heels.

 

[Jayrod]

But, I do now realize that starting off "Are you saying..." is a typical way to be argumentative.

Interesting. I don't think that at all.

I often will ask that to make sure I understand what they are saying. And that I'm not misinterpreting what they are saying. Or assuming something they don't mean.

When I ask if this is what they are saying, I mean it to be asking if that is what they are saying.

That's how I meant it, more in the literal sense of asking if that's what he was saying. But, that type of phrasing is often used to take what someone is saying and then suggest they are saying something more extreme.

"I don't think the Ravens looked very good last night."

"Are you saying you think they'll have a top 5 pick next year!?!?"

That kind of thing.

Isn't this called a Straw Man? Or am I misusing that phrase?

I'll be the judge of that.