THE FBG Fashion Thread :style: (3 Viewers)

[offdee]

Would any of you fashionistas care to tell me why it is frowned upon to where a black shirt w/brown pants? The wife gave me the "Really?" look recently as I was getting ready for work but she would not explain.

Because brown and black don't go together well. It just doesn't look good.

 

[Otis]

winter coat sales start yet? any of you homos know when they typically do?

 

[ditka85]

Would any of you fashionistas care to tell me why it is frowned upon to where a black shirt w/brown pants? The wife gave me the "Really?" look recently as I was getting ready for work but she would not explain.

Because brown and black don't go together well. It just doesn't look good.

Pardon my ignorance. I thought most anything goes with black. It's not like I was wearing green pants with a purple shirt.

 

[RudiStein]

The Mrporter site is ridiculous. $445 for a short-sleeve white shirt. ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

ETA: $545 t-shirt No, seriously. This place is a joke right? Like The Onion?

Why are you guys complaining about the price of premium items? If you can't afford it, move on. They have plenty of various options depending on what you want to spend. It's only $37 for this timeless classic.

Premium items? It's sweats and a t-shirt, slick.

you obviously don't understand :style:

Obviously. So style = wasting money?

Wasting money is relative. I think $435 for a t-shirt is absolutely ridiculous but I recently purchased a $135 Maison Martin Margiela shirt to see if there really was any difference. Unfortunately, I can't go back. Wearing a $12 T-shirt from the Gap feels like I'm walking around in sandpaper.

$135 for a t-shirt is a huge waste. You honestly mean to tell me that a regular $15 Hanes Beefy-T is too coarse for you to wear?

 

[RudiStein]

The Mrporter site is ridiculous. $445 for a short-sleeve white shirt. ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

ETA: $545 t-shirt No, seriously. This place is a joke right? Like The Onion?

Why are you guys complaining about the price of premium items? If you can't afford it, move on. They have plenty of various options depending on what you want to spend. It's only $37 for this timeless classic.

Premium items? It's sweats and a t-shirt, slick.

you obviously don't understand :style:

Obviously. So style = wasting money?

Wasting money is relative. I think $435 for a t-shirt is absolutely ridiculous but I recently purchased a $135 Maison Martin Margiela shirt to see if there really was any difference. Unfortunately, I can't go back. Wearing a $12 T-shirt from the Gap feels like I'm walking around in sandpaper.

$135 for a t-shirt is a huge waste. You honestly mean to tell me that a regular $15 Hanes Beefy-T is too coarse for you to wear?

 

[offdee]

Would any of you fashionistas care to tell me why it is frowned upon to where a black shirt w/brown pants? The wife gave me the "Really?" look recently as I was getting ready for work but she would not explain.

Because brown and black don't go together well. It just doesn't look good.

Pardon my ignorance. I thought most anything goes with black. It's not like I was wearing green pants with a purple shirt.

Everything goes with black except brown.It would be like wearing black pants with brown shoes....just doesn't work.

 

[Major]

Would any of you fashionistas care to tell me why it is frowned upon to where a black shirt w/brown pants? The wife gave me the "Really?" look recently as I was getting ready for work but she would not explain.

Because brown and black don't go together well. It just doesn't look good.

yep....go with a blue, any hue will do.

 

[Cunk]

<!--quoteo(post=10510877:date=Jul 2 2009, 06:10 PM:name=MacArtist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MacArtist @ Jul 2 2009, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=10510877"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And if you're a man, please keep your neck hair shaved. You don't want any neck trails in the back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->This is a good one. Also goes for potruding chest hair barrelling out the top of your shirt. If it looks like 10 tarantulas are trying to escape out of your collar, time to get a trimmer.

This is a good one. It also prevents your g/f from shoving her face in a tank of tarantulas when she thought she was cuddling up to you. Could be fatal.

 

[Major]

The Mrporter site is ridiculous. $445 for a short-sleeve white shirt. ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

ETA: $545 t-shirt No, seriously. This place is a joke right? Like The Onion?

Why are you guys complaining about the price of premium items? If you can't afford it, move on. They have plenty of various options depending on what you want to spend. It's only $37 for this timeless classic.

Premium items? It's sweats and a t-shirt, slick.

you obviously don't understand :style:

Obviously. So style = wasting money?

Wasting money is relative. I think $435 for a t-shirt is absolutely ridiculous but I recently purchased a $135 Maison Martin Margiela shirt to see if there really was any difference. Unfortunately, I can't go back. Wearing a $12 T-shirt from the Gap feels like I'm walking around in sandpaper.

$135 for a t-shirt is a huge waste. You honestly mean to tell me that a regular $15 Hanes Beefy-T is too coarse for you to wear?

It's a :style: thing, you wouldn't understand $135

 

[RudiStein]

The Mrporter site is ridiculous. $445 for a short-sleeve white shirt. ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

ETA: $545 t-shirt No, seriously. This place is a joke right? Like The Onion?

Why are you guys complaining about the price of premium items? If you can't afford it, move on. They have plenty of various options depending on what you want to spend. It's only $37 for this timeless classic.

Premium items? It's sweats and a t-shirt, slick.

you obviously don't understand :style:

Obviously. So style = wasting money?

Wasting money is relative. I think $435 for a t-shirt is absolutely ridiculous but I recently purchased a $135 Maison Martin Margiela shirt to see if there really was any difference. Unfortunately, I can't go back. Wearing a $12 T-shirt from the Gap feels like I'm walking around in sandpaper.

$135 for a t-shirt is a huge waste. You honestly mean to tell me that a regular $15 Hanes Beefy-T is too coarse for you to wear?

It's a :style: thing, you wouldn't understand $135

If you say so.

 

[offdee]

Stay away from the wire frame aviators, Goose. I got this pair of Paul Smith aviators pair and love them.

Thanks for the link, been eyeing up some Paul Smith's for a while. Just purchased. ETA: looks like Major's link goes to a different pair now that I bought the other ones. These retail for $300+, so $155 isn't too bad. Original sunglasses linked below...

http://cgi.ebay.com/...M%253D=

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

The Mrporter site is ridiculous. $445 for a short-sleeve white shirt. ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

ETA: $545 t-shirt No, seriously. This place is a joke right? Like The Onion?

Why are you guys complaining about the price of premium items? If you can't afford it, move on. They have plenty of various options depending on what you want to spend. It's only $37 for this timeless classic.

Premium items? It's sweats and a t-shirt, slick.

you obviously don't understand :style:

Obviously. So style = wasting money?

Wasting money is relative. I think $435 for a t-shirt is absolutely ridiculous but I recently purchased a $135 Maison Martin Margiela shirt to see if there really was any difference. Unfortunately, I can't go back. Wearing a $12 T-shirt from the Gap feels like I'm walking around in sandpaper.

I, too, have sensitive nipples.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Finally getting around to replacing sunglasses I destroyed awhile back.

Bought these

Hope they fit my huge skull.

classic enough to not become dated?

Aviators tend to go in and out of style... but they're on the way back in currently, so you'll be fine for 2/3 years IMHO.ETA: I see offdee disagrees. I'll admit they never really go all the way out, but there are definitely times they're more in than usual.

I see Rudi... wait a sec... Rudi?! got this one right?Aviators are not on the way back in- they've been back for a long while now which means they'll be heading out before too long. And Rudi is totally right- it was pretty much moustache-wearing motorcycle cops who were the only guys wearing aviators for a while there.

Stay away from the wire frame aviators, Goose. I got this pair of Paul Smith aviators pair and love them.

ya, there is no way I could pull those off. no fn way.

 

[Joe Bryant]

ya, there is no way I could pull those off. no fn way.

Don't worry jtg. Nobody can without looking like Uncle Rico. You just know it. J

 

[Major]

Finally getting around to replacing sunglasses I destroyed awhile back.

Bought these

Hope they fit my huge skull.

classic enough to not become dated?

Aviators tend to go in and out of style... but they're on the way back in currently, so you'll be fine for 2/3 years IMHO.ETA: I see offdee disagrees. I'll admit they never really go all the way out, but there are definitely times they're more in than usual.

I see Rudi... wait a sec... Rudi?! got this one right?Aviators are not on the way back in- they've been back for a long while now which means they'll be heading out before too long. And Rudi is totally right- it was pretty much moustache-wearing motorcycle cops who were the only guys wearing aviators for a while there.

Stay away from the wire frame aviators, Goose. I got this pair of Paul Smith aviators pair and love them.

ya, there is no way I could pull those off. no fn way.

that wasn't my original link (actually never seen those before)...teh shades offdee got were the ones I purchased and linked.

 

[jdoggydogg]

The Mrporter site is ridiculous. $445 for a short-sleeve white shirt. ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

ETA: $545 t-shirt No, seriously. This place is a joke right? Like The Onion?

Why are you guys complaining about the price of premium items? If you can't afford it, move on. They have plenty of various options depending on what you want to spend. It's only $37 for this timeless classic.

I'm not complaining because I can't afford them. I am complaining because it's disgusting and obscene.

 

[offdee]

I want these boots, but can't find them in stock anywhere. Would be great both casual and dressy.http://www.my-wardrobe.com/grenson/tan-wing-tip-darby-brogue-boots-297907

http://www.my-wardrobe.com/grenson/tan-wing-tip-darby-brogue-boots-297907

 

[Major]

I want these boots, but can't find them in stock anywhere. Would be great both casual and dressy.http://www.my-wardrobe.com/grenson/tan-wing-tip-darby-brogue-boots-297907

http://www.my-wardrobe.com/grenson/tan-wing-tip-darby-brogue-boots-297907

I think these would look better

 

[jdoggydogg]

I want these boots, but can't find them in stock anywhere. Would be great both casual and dressy.http://www.my-wardrobe.com/grenson/tan-wing-tip-darby-brogue-boots-297907

http://www.my-wardro...ue-boots-297907

They'd go perfect with this outfit.

 

[RudiStein]

I want these boots, but can't find them in stock anywhere. Would be great both casual and dressy.http://www.my-wardrobe.com/grenson/tan-wing-tip-darby-brogue-boots-297907

http://www.my-wardro...ue-boots-297907

They'd go perfect with this outfit.

The first thing I thought of when I saw those was "It's like Steam-Punk casual Friday."

 

[offdee]

Stay away from the wire frame aviators, Goose. I got this pair of Paul Smith aviators pair and love them.

Thanks for the link, been eyeing up some Paul Smith's for a while. Just purchased. ETA: looks like Major's link goes to a different pair now that I bought the other ones. These retail for $300+, so $155 isn't too bad. Original sunglasses linked below...

http://cgi.ebay.com/...M%253D=

Received the shades in the mail today. :thumbsup:

 

[Otis]

Wait, did someone here really pay $135 for a t-shirt?

 

[BobbyLayne]

Wonder how many FBGs could pull off this look.

I can't imagine anything more intimidating than trying to wear the scarf as tie with a straight face. Cary Grant, yes. BobbyLayne, no.

Ditto for the wide white belt - though I do think Kaymer looks less ridiculous than Lefty.

 

[RudiStein]

Wait, did someone here really pay $135 for a t-shirt?

Wearing anything cheaper is like being in an iron maiden.

 

[Major]

Wait, did someone here really pay $135 for a t-shirt?

$165once you go Thom Browne, it's tough to go back.

 

[jdoggydogg]

Wait, did someone here really pay $135 for a t-shirt?

$165once you go Thom Browne, it's tough to go back.

That shirt has nothing on this shirt's :style:

 

[Idiot Boxer]

offdee and major are really just committed to the :style: schtick, right. No one actually dresses this way. Right? Right?

 

[glock]

Okay- I saw a brief mention of shorts for the coming spring/summer copy/pasted from some fashionista site a coupla pages back, but very little on just what FBG's are rocking very soon. Hell- it's March 9th. I'm a shorts guy who wears shorts year round to work (uniform choice) so I need to get a heads up on whats what this year.

My dilemna? Once a guy is given casual shorts with lotsa pockets- see cargo shorts and their derivatives- how the hell is he supposed to just give them back? Wallet, glasses, sunglasses, keys, knife (always packing a folding knife- Be PreparedTM) and pockets to put them in! Now I'm told those shorts have to go away?

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

offdee and major are really just committed to the :style: schtick, right. No one actually dresses this way. Right? Right?

some gay guys do (NTTAWT)

 

[offdee]

Okay- I saw a brief mention of shorts for the coming spring/summer copy/pasted from some fashionista site a coupla pages back, but very little on just what FBG's are rocking very soon. Hell- it's March 9th. I'm a shorts guy who wears shorts year round to work (uniform choice) so I need to get a heads up on whats what this year.

My dilemna? Once a guy is given casual shorts with lotsa pockets- see cargo shorts and their derivatives- how the hell is he supposed to just give them back? Wallet, glasses, sunglasses, keys, knife (always packing a folding knife- Be PreparedTM) and pockets to put them in! Now I'm told those shorts have to go away?

Avoid:

- Jorts- Cargo shorts

- Plaid shorts

- thin linen shorts

Acceptable:

- Khaki shorts (no cargo pockets or pleats. Can get them in a number of colors...tan, grey, black)

- Long pants/jeans when weather permits (the extra 16" of fabric on your legs won't make you melt)

Only acceptable when playing sports or working out:

- Athletic type shorts

Unfortunately hot summer days suck for men's :style:. The only real play is to rotate 3-4 simple khaki type shorts in different colors and a plain v-neck tee or short-sleeve button up. Anytime temps are 70 and below put some long pants on and up your overall :style: game.

 

[RudiStein]

- Long pants/jeans when weather permits (the extra 16" of fabric on your legs won't make you melt)

It gets pretty balmy in other parts of the country.That's like me telling some dude in Wisconsin that there's no need for a parka.

 

[El Floppo]

Okay- I saw a brief mention of shorts for the coming spring/summer copy/pasted from some fashionista site a coupla pages back, but very little on just what FBG's are rocking very soon. Hell- it's March 9th. I'm a shorts guy who wears shorts year round to work (uniform choice) so I need to get a heads up on whats what this year.

My dilemna? Once a guy is given casual shorts with lotsa pockets- see cargo shorts and their derivatives- how the hell is he supposed to just give them back? Wallet, glasses, sunglasses, keys, knife (always packing a folding knife- Be PreparedTM) and pockets to put them in! Now I'm told those shorts have to go away?

Avoid:

- Jorts- Cargo shorts

- Plaid shorts

- thin linen shorts

Acceptable:

- Khaki shorts (no cargo pockets or pleats. Can get them in a number of colors...tan, grey, black)

- Long pants/jeans when weather permits (the extra 16" of fabric on your legs won't make you melt)

Only acceptable when playing sports or working out:

- Athletic type shorts

Unfortunately hot summer days suck for men's :style:. The only real play is to rotate 3-4 simple khaki type shorts in different colors and a plain v-neck tee or short-sleeve button up. Anytime temps are 70 and below put some long pants on and up your overall :style: game.

Cut off jeans are ok in the right situation.

 

[Major]

Okay- I saw a brief mention of shorts for the coming spring/summer copy/pasted from some fashionista site a coupla pages back, but very little on just what FBG's are rocking very soon. Hell- it's March 9th. I'm a shorts guy who wears shorts year round to work (uniform choice) so I need to get a heads up on whats what this year.

My dilemna? Once a guy is given casual shorts with lotsa pockets- see cargo shorts and their derivatives- how the hell is he supposed to just give them back? Wallet, glasses, sunglasses, keys, knife (always packing a folding knife- Be PreparedTM) and pockets to put them in! Now I'm told those shorts have to go away?

:fannypack:

 

[glock]

Okay- I saw a brief mention of shorts for the coming spring/summer copy/pasted from some fashionista site a coupla pages back, but very little on just what FBG's are rocking very soon. Hell- it's March 9th. I'm a shorts guy who wears shorts year round to work (uniform choice) so I need to get a heads up on whats what this year.

My dilemna? Once a guy is given casual shorts with lotsa pockets- see cargo shorts and their derivatives- how the hell is he supposed to just give them back? Wallet, glasses, sunglasses, keys, knife (always packing a folding knife- Be PreparedTM) and pockets to put them in! Now I'm told those shorts have to go away?

Avoid:

- Jorts- Cargo shorts

- Plaid shorts

- thin linen shorts

Acceptable:

- Khaki shorts (no cargo pockets or pleats. Can get them in a number of colors...tan, grey, black)

- Long pants/jeans when weather permits (the extra 16" of fabric on your legs won't make you melt)

Only acceptable when playing sports or working out:

- Athletic type shorts

Unfortunately hot summer days suck for men's :style:. The only real play is to rotate 3-4 simple khaki type shorts in different colors and a plain v-neck tee or short-sleeve button up. Anytime temps are 70 and below put some long pants on and up your overall :style: game.

16" of fabric don't touch my legs year 'round if I can help it. Hell- I even have a coupla kilts in my quiver for special occasions...I'm talking suburban/rural casual/active wear shorts, not Sunday afternoon Mid-Town NYC stroll shorts. On weekends I dress for my day in the morning, and- with the exception of the rare night out- don't change again. Light yard work, a run to the store, taking in my son's sporting events- something like these fits the bill more often than not.

Eddie Bauer says cargos still work.

Guess those bold plaids didn't last too long. Neutrals still seem okay.

 

[glock]

Okay- I saw a brief mention of shorts for the coming spring/summer copy/pasted from some fashionista site a coupla pages back, but very little on just what FBG's are rocking very soon. Hell- it's March 9th. I'm a shorts guy who wears shorts year round to work (uniform choice) so I need to get a heads up on whats what this year.

My dilemna? Once a guy is given casual shorts with lotsa pockets- see cargo shorts and their derivatives- how the hell is he supposed to just give them back? Wallet, glasses, sunglasses, keys, knife (always packing a folding knife- Be PreparedTM) and pockets to put them in! Now I'm told those shorts have to go away?

:fannypack:

Talk about utilitarian goods put to pasture in the name of fashion... I remember how back in school- years 6-12- toting anything with your books in it or even wearing a coat in the winter was considered an absolute fau pax.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

amazon has shipped the wrong sunglasses to me twice now (mirrored instead of smoke lens aviators). might be a sign.

Opinions on these?

Not sure I could pull them out for every day use but they'd work with a suit, ect.

(ETA: obvious the price is ######ed... style opinions)

 

[menobrown]

Would any of you fashionistas care to tell me why it is frowned upon to where a black shirt w/brown pants? The wife gave me the "Really?" look recently as I was getting ready for work but she would not explain.

Because brown and black don't go together well. It just doesn't look good.

Pardon my ignorance. I thought most anything goes with black. It's not like I was wearing green pants with a purple shirt.

Everything goes with black except brown.It would be like wearing black pants with brown shoes....just doesn't work.

Blue and Black is a horrible combo.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

These are kind of cool



gilt has a ton up today fwiw.

 

[offdee]

These are kind of cool



gilt has a ton up today fwiw.

your link isn't showing anything for me.The Oliver Peoples Conways and Paul Smith Zy Shield sunglasses at Gilt caught my eye today. (but I just recently bought some Paul Smith plastic aviators a week or so ago so no need for me)

 

[offdee]

amazon has shipped the wrong sunglasses to me twice now (mirrored instead of smoke lens aviators). might be a sign.

Opinions on these?

Not sure I could pull them out for every day use but they'd work with a suit, ect.

(ETA: obvious the price is ######ed... style opinions)

Not bad (a streamlined take on Wayferers). You definitely don't want those in mirrored frames though. Hold out for the smoked black lens.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

These are kind of cool



gilt has a ton up today fwiw.

your link isn't showing anything for me.The Oliver Peoples Conways and Paul Smith Zy Shield sunglasses at Gilt caught my eye today. (but I just recently bought some Paul Smith plastic aviators a week or so ago so no need for me)

this work

http://www.mosleytribes.com/media/catalog/product/cache/3/image/980x490/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/i/file_1_10.jpg

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

amazon has shipped the wrong sunglasses to me twice now (mirrored instead of smoke lens aviators). might be a sign.

Opinions on these?

Not sure I could pull them out for every day use but they'd work with a suit, ect.

(ETA: obvious the price is ######ed... style opinions)

Not bad (a streamlined take on Wayferers). You definitely don't want those in mirrored frames though. Hold out for the smoked black lens.

nonono.the ones I ordered were straight ray ban aviators. supposed to be smoke, they keep mailing mirrored.

These are sort of a left field option. Not sure I can really use them for every day, at the lake with the kids and milfs, action though.

 

[offdee]

Would any of you fashionistas care to tell me why it is frowned upon to where a black shirt w/brown pants? The wife gave me the "Really?" look recently as I was getting ready for work but she would not explain.

Because brown and black don't go together well. It just doesn't look good.

Pardon my ignorance. I thought most anything goes with black. It's not like I was wearing green pants with a purple shirt.

Everything goes with black except brown.It would be like wearing black pants with brown shoes....just doesn't work.

Blue and Black is a horrible combo.

Depends.Light blues and bright/royal blues and black is perfectly fine. Navy blue and black is questionable.Actually, lots of fashion sources have been showing the black and navy blue combo.

 

[offdee]

These are kind of cool



gilt has a ton up today fwiw.

your link isn't showing anything for me.The Oliver Peoples Conways and Paul Smith Zy Shield sunglasses at Gilt caught my eye today. (but I just recently bought some Paul Smith plastic aviators a week or so ago so no need for me)

this work

http://www.mosleytri...i/file_1_10.jpg

They're fine, but I'd look for something with a thicker plastic frame (instead of thin metal)Plastic framed aviators (non-mirrored lenses) are the thing now.

 

[shuke]

Blue and Black is a horrible combo.

Wrong.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

Would any of you fashionistas care to tell me why it is frowned upon to where a black shirt w/brown pants? The wife gave me the "Really?" look recently as I was getting ready for work but she would not explain.

Because brown and black don't go together well. It just doesn't look good.

Pardon my ignorance. I thought most anything goes with black. It's not like I was wearing green pants with a purple shirt.

Everything goes with black except brown.It would be like wearing black pants with brown shoes....just doesn't work.

Blue and Black is a horrible combo.

Depends.Light blues and bright/royal blues and black is perfectly fine. Navy blue and black is questionable.Actually, lots of fashion sources have been showing the black and navy blue combo.

Possibly the first time I ever agreed with offdee in this thread.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

Can't wait to see pics of offdee and major rocking the white denim this summer.

 

[The Z Machine]

Plaid or linen shorts are definitely not out. They have to be hip and modern cut though.\

If you're a hipster you could just cut off some Dickies pants into shorts, pair with a white V-neck T that shows off your sleeve/neck tattoos, and tuck that mini U-lock into your belt when you ride off on your fixie.

 

[menobrown]

Would any of you fashionistas care to tell me why it is frowned upon to where a black shirt w/brown pants? The wife gave me the "Really?" look recently as I was getting ready for work but she would not explain.

Because brown and black don't go together well. It just doesn't look good.

Pardon my ignorance. I thought most anything goes with black. It's not like I was wearing green pants with a purple shirt.

Everything goes with black except brown.It would be like wearing black pants with brown shoes....just doesn't work.

Blue and Black is a horrible combo.

Depends.Light blues and bright/royal blues and black is perfectly fine. Navy blue and black is questionable.Actually, lots of fashion sources have been showing the black and navy blue combo.

Possibly the first time I ever agreed with offdee in this thread.

Light blues yes and I should have clarified but I don't care what fashion sources state, I think dark blue paired with black is a horrible look.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Would any of you fashionistas care to tell me why it is frowned upon to where a black shirt w/brown pants? The wife gave me the "Really?" look recently as I was getting ready for work but she would not explain.

Because brown and black don't go together well. It just doesn't look good.

Pardon my ignorance. I thought most anything goes with black. It's not like I was wearing green pants with a purple shirt.

Everything goes with black except brown.It would be like wearing black pants with brown shoes....just doesn't work.

Blue and Black is a horrible combo.

Depends.Light blues and bright/royal blues and black is perfectly fine. Navy blue and black is questionable.Actually, lots of fashion sources have been showing the black and navy blue combo.

Possibly the first time I ever agreed with offdee in this thread.

Light blues yes and I should have clarified but I don't care what fashion sources state, I think dark blue paired with black is a horrible look.

why do you hate the Navy?