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The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads (1 Viewer)

Quick Question: What is the best way to hid wealth so the court can not find it?

Side question; If you have property in another state like a second house what is the best way to ensure that it stays unmentioned in say a divorce case.

 
But tell a chancery judge you have a jury demand for your money claims and it's an automatic transfer for the jury trial.
Yup.  Early in my practice I put a jury demand in a Chancery General Equity Complaint.  I say put in, loosely, I used the form for our law division complaints, changed the facts and the court title and filed it.  Judge's secretary called me to let me know that the judge wanted me to know that his courtroom has literally no jury box and he wasn't going to build one for me.

Loved that guy.  Good judge.

 
Quick Question: What is the best way to hid wealth so the court can not find it?

Side question; If you have property in another state like a second house what is the best way to ensure that it stays unmentioned in say a divorce case.
Probably the best way is to commit fraud on the Court, leaving yourself open to the judgment being nullified at any time during your life and leaving yourself open to contempt and fraud charges, including criminal charges.  Google Teresa Giudice.

 
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Back when I went to trial with the attorneys that I worked with in a previous life, some knew each other so well that they would exchange note cards with three words or terms (Stuff like: Hamster, Ferris Wheel, Gettysburg) that the other lawyers needed to try to work into direct or cross.  Beer/Wine/Happy Hour bets and the like were at stake.  Obviously, all civil cases and not super Woz type stuff.

You guys play any lawyer games in court with opposing counsel you know well?

 
Law Division - Suits seeking money damages in excess of $30k

Chancery Division - Suits seeking equitable relief; class actions; foreclosures; mechanic's liens; administrative review

Domestic Relations Division

Domestic Violence Division

County Division - Mental health; adoption; tax; elections

Probate Division

Criminal Division

Elder Law and Miscellaneous Remedies Division

Child Protection Division

Juvenile Justice Division

Municipal Department - Suits seeking money damages less than $30k; eviction; housing; misdemeanor; traffic


so no Pudding Division? :kicksrock:   ... that sucks.

 
Doesn't sound like she was in equity if she was doing insurance fender benders and slip and falls.
She was stuck in Municipal. The 11th floor of the Daley Center is a cattle-call. A collections attorney will stand there for 20 straight cases asking for $200-$500 judgments against people who can't pay. She eventually became a pre-trial judge for Municipal jury trials. That's where she handled the slip and falls and fender benders.

 
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I made a federal judge pull out a copy of the FRCP today on the bench during argument and follow along with me.  After which she said she didn't agree with the rule, but she conceded that it said what I said it did.

It was vindicating.  Also, it was Rule 69, so I was giggling a little inside every time I cited to it.
How do you pull that off without sounding incredibly condescending?

 
Took the NY/UBE bar two weeks back. Moved on to the patent bar study material, any advice? I'm pretty ... burnt out. The test is on the 17th and I start soon thereafter.

 
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So this might be premature because he doesn't have many posts... but this judge served my city for a crapload of time.  He helped to impliment one of the first "drug courts" in Reagan Country.  

About 25 years ago I got sent to his courtroom by mistake.  I had a bench warrant in my name thanks to a 2 year old open container violation that I paid but never served to the court (or whatever).  So I sat there for like 3 hours as he heard BS misdemeanor cases.  Long story short I was blown away by his ability to see through the crap (or not) and "judge".

https://inchambersblog.wordpress.com/blog/

 
She was stuck in Municipal. The 11th floor of the Daley Center is a cattle-call. A collections attorney will stand there for 20 straight cases asking for $200-$500 judgments against people who can't pay. She eventually became a pre-trial judge for Municipal jury trials. That's where she handled the slip and falls and fender benders.
Ugh, that's awful.  Is that just how Cook County is organized, or all of Illinois?  In "my" states, with the exception of North Carolina (which has two tiers of county courts), if you're a county judge the only real divisions are civil/criminal/probate/family. 

 
Twice in the last week I've done intake on new clients who have made my jaw drop when they describe their previous lawyer.

  • Client is purchasing his third or fourth commercial building.  Lender requires the owner/borrower to be an LLC.  Lawyer forms the LLC but does not ask the client what he wants to call it.  Client has named each prior LLC after his kids.  The new one, named by the lawyer, is just the address of the property (123 Main Street, LLC).
  • Lawyer goes to an eviction hearing for client with dozens of rental units.  Lawyer reaches an agreement to give 30 extra days to tenant before the eviction judgment becomes effective.  Does not ask client if this is acceptable, just cuts a deal in the courthouse lobby.
On the plus side I have two new clients.

 
I made a federal judge pull out a copy of the FRCP today on the bench during argument and follow along with me.  After which she said she didn't agree with the rule, but she conceded that it said what I said it did.

It was vindicating.  Also, it was Rule 69, so I was giggling a little inside every time I cited to it.
No better time to cite rule 69 than during oral argument to  a Judge whose sex is opposite of one's own.

 
PS anyone got any stories of other lawyers' unethical/unprofessional behavior that shocked you?

:popcorn:  

 
PS anyone got any stories of other lawyers' unethical/unprofessional behavior that shocked you?

:popcorn:  
Many years ago a guy I went to law school with got caught getting oral sex from a prostitute inside the criminal courthouse.  Not his client nor was he a prosecutor.

 
I knew a lawyer once who was pretty much the recognized expert in his area of law, and wrote a guidebook on it. Most of his cases involved him, the judge, and the opposing lawyer all arguing points out of his own book, instead of the law book.
Oh, I wrote the book on 69. High five?

 
Twice in the last week I've done intake on new clients who have made my jaw drop when they describe their previous lawyer.

  • Client is purchasing his third or fourth commercial building.  Lender requires the owner/borrower to be an LLC.  Lawyer forms the LLC but does not ask the client what he wants to call it.  Client has named each prior LLC after his kids.  The new one, named by the lawyer, is just the address of the property (123 Main Street, LLC).
  • Lawyer goes to an eviction hearing for client with dozens of rental units.  Lawyer reaches an agreement to give 30 extra days to tenant before the eviction judgment becomes effective.  Does not ask client if this is acceptable, just cuts a deal in the courthouse lobby.
On the plus side I have two new clients.
Ehhhh some times these descriptions may or may not actually be based in reality or fact.  

 
PS anyone got any stories of other lawyers' unethical/unprofessional behavior that shocked you?

:popcorn:  
I arrived at the office shortly after she left, but a younger, relatively good-looking female attorney was caught getting it from behind by a client/inmate in the attorney-client booth at a jail.*  She then, while her disciplinary action was pending and she was basically on probation, manipulated the case assignment system so she was assigned to the same client's/inmate's new case.  

* I've been in that exact booth pretty fifty times.  It is one of the rare booths where you can have physical contact with a client, but it's very easy to see in from the outside and, at any given moment, there's probably like 50 other people within 20 yards of where you are, including an elevated guard station. Not sure how she thought they could get away with it. 

 
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Ehhhh some times these descriptions may or may not actually be based in reality or fact.  
Yeah, it's usually a precursor to them claiming they've already paid too much and could I give them a discount. Oh, and they really don't trust lawyers.

 
PS anyone got any stories of other lawyers' unethical/unprofessional behavior that shocked you?

:popcorn:  
When I was a baby lawyer, I was covering a deposition of a Louisiana State Trooper in a death case involving a truck disabled on the shoulder of I-55 which was struck from behind by a pickup in which deceased plaintiff was a passenger. During the course of the deposition, scumbag plaintiff's lawyer presented the Trooper with a diagram from his accident report, altered by the plaintiff lawyer, to show that the truck trailer was in the roadway at the time of the accident.  The Trooper's actual report showed the trailer completely on the shoulder of the interstate. I've never objected so hard and so true in my entire legal career as I did that day.

Just deserts: the case went to trial in federal court and the lawyer got sanctioned 3 times during the trial and the plaintiff, deservedly, got $0.00.

 
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The cool thing about this job is it doesn't get old. Some days I feel like I'm one of the best in my firm, one of the best in the business, at what I do.  Other days I feel like a clown. I can't imagine many other professions causing such highs and lows. 

But it sure keeps things interesting. 

 
Back when I went to trial with the attorneys that I worked with in a previous life, some knew each other so well that they would exchange note cards with three words or terms (Stuff like: Hamster, Ferris Wheel, Gettysburg) that the other lawyers needed to try to work into direct or cross.  Beer/Wine/Happy Hour bets and the like were at stake.  Obviously, all civil cases and not super Woz type stuff.

You guys play any lawyer games in court with opposing counsel you know well?
Not necessarily a "game", but several years ago a prosecutor and I (both assigned to the same misdemeanor court at the time) had a sort of "agreement"* where neither of us would strike any decently attractive female under 35 in the jury pool. He created this game on his belief that he'd "never lose to [me] in any sort of competition involving hot girls." Despite this insistence, and probably have more to do with the fact he was a pretty terrible prosecutor, I never lost to him (4-0 IIRC).  

The "game" came to a head after a trial where, despite perhaps the general facts of the case (suggesting my guilty was pretty guilty), the jury returned an acquittal in a very short amount of time.  The judge, somewhat perturbed (not at me, but at the prosecutor), inquired of this prosecutor as to why in the world he didn't move to strike the girl on the jury who indicated in voir dire that her husband played softball with defense counsel and that she liked defense counsel, heard defense counsel is a "good attorney" and that she'd "probably believe anything [defense counsel] said and argued."  The prosecutor indignantly claimed that he'd "take his chances against [Woz] with anything to do with women any day." The judge, just straight dead-panned, retorted, "but you've never beaten him."  

I'd note this is also the prosecutor who:

1) Once gave what he referred to as the "Yoda closing."  The Yoda closing consisted solely of the following three question-answer statements: 1) drunk driving? proven; 2) guilty? your call; 3) your service? appreciated.  

2) Just before he left the office, sent out a large number of last-minute too-good-to-be-true plea offers which caused his boss, after learning what had happened (and the prosecutor now gone) to have to send out a letter to defense bar basically apologizing but withdrawing any of the outstanding offers which hadn't been accepted -- a huge no-no in our area of practice, but, frankly, somewhat understandable.  

*Note: I would have easily broken the rules of this game if my client's best interests would have been best served by doing so - i.e. no way I was going to let this "game" create an ethical issue for me but, thankfully, that scenario never arose. 

 
When I was a baby lawyer, I was covering a deposition of a Louisiana State Trooper in a death case involving a truck disabled on the shoulder of I-55 which was struck from behind by a pickup in which deceased plaintiff was a passenger. During the course of the deposition, scumbag plaintiff's lawyer presented the Trooper with a diagram from his accident report, altered by the plaintiff lawyer, to show that the truck trailer was in the roadway at the time of the accident.  The Trooper's actual report showed the trailer completely on the shoulder of the interstate. I've never objected so hard and so true in my entire legal career as I did that day.

Just deserts: the case went to trial in federal court and the lawyer got sanctioned 3 times during the trial and the plaintiff, deservedly, got $0.00.
holy crap.

 
The cool thing about this job is it doesn't get old. Some days I feel like I'm one of the best in my firm, one of the best in the business, at what I do.  Other days I feel like a clown. I can't imagine many other professions causing such highs and lows. 

But it sure keeps things interesting. 
We all feel that way, gb.  Imposter Syndrome some days.

 
Twice in the last week I've done intake on new clients who have made my jaw drop when they describe their previous lawyer.

  • Client is purchasing his third or fourth commercial building.  Lender requires the owner/borrower to be an LLC.  Lawyer forms the LLC but does not ask the client what he wants to call it.  Client has named each prior LLC after his kids.  The new one, named by the lawyer, is just the address of the property (123 Main Street, LLC).
  • Lawyer goes to an eviction hearing for client with dozens of rental units.  Lawyer reaches an agreement to give 30 extra days to tenant before the eviction judgment becomes effective.  Does not ask client if this is acceptable, just cuts a deal in the courthouse lobby.
On the plus side I have two new clients.
The first one is really a non-issue. Setting up an LLC is paralegal stuff, and its common practice for a single purpose real estate LLC to be named after the property. If the client doesn't make a point of asking for a particular name, I don't think he can complain if the para doesn't call to ask him what he wants to call his LLC. It can easily be changed anyway. The second one really depends on the circumstances.

 
We all feel that way, gb.  Imposter Syndrome some days.
Imposter is a good word.  Lots of days it feels like I somehow have duped everyone around me for 15 years into thinking I belong.  Other days I look around and think, "damnit people, pull your weight."

wtf

 
The cool thing about this job is it doesn't get old. Some days I feel like I'm one of the best in my firm, one of the best in the business, at what I do.  Other days I feel like a clown. I can't imagine many other professions causing such highs and lows. 

But it sure keeps things interesting. 
Don't sell yourself short.  You're a hell of a clown.

 
Imposter is a good word.  Lots of days it feels like I somehow have duped everyone around me for 15 years into thinking I belong.  Other days I look around and think, "damnit people, pull your weight."

wtf
It's an actual diagnostic term.  It's only felt by actually brilliant people.

 
I know I posted in here about the DUI guy that hit my son.  Too lazy to find the posts.

On a whim I checked the county court records do the guy to see if he's done anything since.

Looks like he violated his probation by not completing his DUI classes etc.  But nothing about any consequences.

 
The first one is really a non-issue. Setting up an LLC is paralegal stuff, and its common practice for a single purpose real estate LLC to be named after the property. If the client doesn't make a point of asking for a particular name, I don't think he can complain if the para doesn't call to ask him what he wants to call his LLC. It can easily be changed anyway. The second one really depends on the circumstances.
Yeah, I couldn't really tell what was supposed to be wrong with this.

 
PS anyone got any stories of other lawyers' unethical/unprofessional behavior that shocked you?

:popcorn:  
Alright, here's one. Someone in my law school class who I knew pretty well is now in prison for using settlement money that he held in trust to fund personal business interests including, but not limited to, a synthetic marijuana ring.

A couple of my favorite parts of the story:

1) I was the person in my law school class who discovered that he was arrested because he had not re-joined the fantasy football league that I commish despite my several e-mails to him and our draft was a few days away. I decided to google him to see if I could find an alternative e-mail address for him, and instead found several news stories about it.

2) He was charged with obstruction of justice because he told someone to destroy evidence while on the jailhouse phone, proving that he skipped day one of criminal law.

 
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Imposter is a good word.  Lots of days it feels like I somehow have duped everyone around me for 15 years into thinking I belong.  Other days I look around and think, "damnit people, pull your weight."

wtf
Totally know the feeling. Go through it a lot. 

 
I know I posted in here about the DUI guy that hit my son.  Too lazy to find the posts.

On a whim I checked the county court records do the guy to see if he's done anything since.

Looks like he violated his probation by not completing his DUI classes etc.  But nothing about any consequences.
Assuming CA is similar enough to AZ (which it may not be), that's a relatively minor violation and, in the event a petition to revoke his probation b/c of the violation (or, there could just be an "order to show cause" hearing for contempt), it could take some time to figure out the sanctions/sentence. 

It's also possible, because it's a smaller violation, that probation just imposed an "intermediate sanction". This may not become people record. 

Finally, it's possible that the clerk tasked to update the public record either screwed up or is slow. This also happens. 

 

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