The political machine is terrified of Trump (1 Viewer)

[Bronco Billy]

FYI, going to plagiarize this  

By all means

 

[MaxThreshold]

And we're not going to get it with Trump either.  He's not even in office yet and walking back a good portion of his promises.  Sound familiar?  I give him credit for beginning that walk back in an obvious way so there is no real way to argue it's not what he's doing.  It's clear to anyone watching.  He's "drained the swamp" and refilled it with more sludge.  There's one special person out there though, the likes of which I have never seen and that's his pick for Sec of Education....she's special, even by Trump's standards.

While I agree that on appearance it doesn't look good, maybe we should wait and see what happens.

Questions for you and anyone else that wants to answer:  What do you think "drain the swamp" means?  Who or what types should he be nominating for these positions in order for you to consider the swamp drained?

 

[beavers]

And the left still doesn't get this - they continue to call everyone who voted for Trump a moron or racist or some other type of "phobe".  It wasn't about Trump at all, really.  It was about "change" - the same "change" (sprinkled with a little "hope") we we're supposed to get with Obama but ended up with neither change nor hope.

I'm not sure if it's cute, or mildly annoying when Trumpkins think the "left" doesn't understand their ideology.

I respect both sides of the political spectrum. Hard core Trumpkins are not conservatives, therefore I do not need to understand them, or tread lightly when sharing what they really are. Some hard core Trumpkins are racists, bigots, etc. Not all who voted for Trump are hard core, and with those, I can (and want to) understand their viewpoint. I want to hear their story - why did they vote for Trump? Economic disparity? Fear of immigration laws? Dislike of Hillary?

I can work with these ... But for those who blindly accept fake news as reality, who are okay with the Russian ties, who are okay with the blantant attack on democracy ... Well, I have nothing to say to you, nor do I owe you any type of understanding (or an attempt at understanding) at all. You are not a conservative. You are not the "right" while I'm the "left." You do not deserve the same respect as a conservative does. I respect all view points; but I don't respect anti-democratic individuals, who are completely fine with an authoritarian leader totally pissing on democracy and serving as a Putin Puppet. I could go on and on ...

I personally have no regrets supporting Hillary as the candidate. She received 3 million more in the popular vote, and there were several factors that contributed to her loss. Her message with blue collar voters was lacking. The emails. She's a woman. Obama is black. The obstruction from Congress. I can go on and on ...

Remember this ... Trump is starting his presidency with one of the worst approval ratings in our history. And, assuming that he does not change his behavior, or approach, he will continue to divide the country with his rhetoric.

I will continue to remain on the right side of history, inform myself with FACTS and wait patiently through this disaster of a president.

 

[Slapdash]

Well, you may not be a lot of things, including truthful.  But damn, you are tenacious.

This must be a different Bronco Billy:  https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/477387-the-birther-conspiracy-thread/?page=46#comment-13061260

You're lucky search engine isn't good enough to find you best ones.

 

[The Commish]

While I agree that on appearance it doesn't look good, maybe we should wait and see what happens.

Questions for you and anyone else that wants to answer:  What do you think "drain the swamp" means?  Who or what types should he be nominating for these positions in order for you to consider the swamp drained?

Doesn't really matter what I think it means.  It matters that I understand the context under which he said it.  That context points directly to getting rid of Washington DC retreads who are part of the "good ole boy" network in Washington DC.  There was no other way to interpret that.  As such, that's what I'd expect if I thought he believed what he was saying (which I don't/didn't).  I'm the last person you want answering your last question....you'd have to dig way down to the state, or local level to get to people I think aren't tainted enough by power to fit this bill.  I'm sure there are some in Washington who fit this bill, but I am not very informed on people from other states.  From my perspective, political experience is of little interest to me.  I'd want people who were genuine and had a quality record of helping others and doing what they felt was in the best interest of their constituents (regardless of what their party says).  

 

[Bronco Billy]

This must be a different Bronco Billy:  https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/477387-the-birther-conspiracy-thread/?page=46#comment-13061260

You're lucky search engine isn't good enough to find you best ones.

Yeah, it's convenient that you couldn't find the very early post of mine in that thread where I stated that I believed he was born in Hawaii and didn't believe that he was foreign born. Very convenient, as is your memory.

That said, this is a completely different topic that has nothing to do with that, so you can continue your little fanciful narrative as you see fit and I'll just ignore you since you don't have any rational contribution to add.

.

 

[shadrap]

Trump's first executive order?   Revoke all of Obama's executive orders.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

Trump's a populist. I think he's going to disappoint both sides, which means there's a chance his Presidency might not be all that bad. Not remotely saying Trump compares to Reagan, but I well remember the frothing diatribes and doomsday prognostications against Reagan as he won the election and took office.

Like for example? 

 

[bagger]

Trump's first executive order?   Revoke all of Obama's executive orders.

Genius. It's like when a genie gives you a wish and you ask for more wishes.

 

[Slapdash]

Yeah, it's convenient that you couldn't find the very early post of mine in that thread where I stated that I believed he was born in Hawaii and didn't believe that he was foreign born. Very convenient, as is your memory.

That said, this is a completely different topic that has nothing to do with that, so you can continue your little fanciful narrative as you see fit and I'll just ignore you since you don't have any rational contribution to add.

.

I was looking for the one where you copy and pasted a ton of fake news about Obama's past as a secret Kenyan Muslim with communist ties, which was about a year before that birther thread was started.  Even then, it is odd you spent ~100 posts defending birther garbage you didn't believe. 

I think it is relevant to remember when you spout off about how Trump voters aren't racist or morons.  Not something I believe, but also not something you have a leg to stand on.

 

[Bronco Billy]

I was looking for the one where you copy and pasted a ton of fake news about Obama's past as a secret Kenyan Muslim with communist ties, which was about a year before that birther thread was started.  Even then, it is odd you spent ~100 posts defending birther garbage you didn't believe. 

I think it is relevant to remember when you spout off about how Trump voters aren't racist or morons.  Not something I believe, but also not something you have a leg to stand on.

Crap. Seriously last time I'm dealing with this. I was actually bored enough to go back through that thread, and in it stated on multiple occassions that I thought Obama was born in Hawaii. You can look for yourself since it is so dire in your processing of this.

Of course that means when it comes to credibility based upon that thread - which is your criteria - you simply don't have any. 

So keep publishing your fake news, or go back and then come here and apologize if you so choose. Either way I'm done.

 

[James Daulton]

A lot of people simply not getting it. I guess it's denial because of their core beliefs and the certainty that they simply know better. 

7 out of 10 people in this country believe it is headed the wrong direction. It's been that way for a while. More than that do not have faith in Congress as a body, presumably because they continually refuse to act in the country's (read average person trying to make their lives and their kids' lives a little better) best interest. 

So as flawed a person or a candidate as Trump was/is, he is seen as a better alternative than what has been put forth by the DC stalwarts - in this case, the allegedly most qualified person ever to run for office. 

Trump wasn't elected by a seething mass of morons or racists. He was elected by average people who are tired of watching career politicians not giving a rip about their constituencies, wasting their hard earned money, and walking away from DC filthy rich while these average people continue to slog through their lives gaining little to no traction on a better future. 

The country knew what it was getting with Hillary. Status quo. As bad as Trump is, and the polls show the country is very aware of his shortcomings, he was seen as a preferable alternative to simply more of the same.

Trump was elected by a seething mass of mainly white men who don't possess the requisite skills to compete in today's marketplace.  And by the religious right who would rather suffer through an idiot as president than lose any more ground to abortion. 

 

[MaxThreshold]

Trump was elected by a seething mass of mainly white men who don't possess the requisite skills to compete in today's marketplace.  And by the religious right who would rather suffer through an idiot as president than lose any more ground to abortion. 

@Slapdash - Remember when I talked about the left calling everyone a moron or racist who voted for Trump?  Yeah, prime example #1 above.  This may not be you, but it certainly is the majority of the left.

Thanks, @James Daulton, for validating my previous post.

 

[sublimeone]

Lefties keep working themselves into a lather trying to convince themselves of things that simply aren't so. A few points you guys fail to understand:

1. Trump benefited from a perfect storm during the primaries. The usual suspects all ran in the primary, not because they had a chance, but because it's the best free publicity people in this arena can get. They get the pub, focus on a constituency, sell some books, rinse and repeat every 4 years. Without the crowded field, no way Trump comes out the winner.

Now, Trump did resonate with some people, obviously, but like it was mentioned many times in the run-up to the election... it wasn't about the issues. It was about a segment of people being tired of getting ridiculed, tired of being marginalized and bullied, tired of the Alinsky tactics. This was a response to that. They finally had a candidate that was willing to punch back. For enthusiastic Trump supporters it was more about 'eff-you' than anything else.

2. Trump received a number of votes consistent with what republicans always get - Romney had about a million more than McCain and Trump had around a million more than Romney. There were plenty of republicans who held their nose and voted for Trump and there were many who abstained. The abstainers were made up for by former democrats - blue collar, union types. The truth of the matter is, most Trump voters (mostly republicans) weren't enthusiastic Trump supporters... it was more of a 'anyone but Hillary' vote. I believe almost any other republican candidate would have received a greater number of overall votes than Trump.

3. Obama is popular but America is not happy with the direction of the country. The cult of personality has allowed him to separate his popularity from this fact. So, this election was ripe for a republican to win. If you've been paying attention you know that republicans have been dominating elections since Obama took office. Republicans should have won this election and the best hope for the democrats was if the republicans ran a bad candidate... which is point #4

4. With as poor a candidate as Trump was, the only chance he had was if democrats ran an even worse candidate... which they did. The corrupt democrat machine had a candidate (bernie), an authentic, albeit insane, candidate with a message and charisma and the machine instead rigged it for Hillary - a corrupt and super-unlikable individual... and that is why you guys have nobody to blame but your beloved party.

 

[beavers]

@Slapdash - Remember when I talked about the left calling everyone a moron or racist who voted for Trump?  Yeah, prime example #1 above.  This may not be you, but it certainly is the majority of the left.

Thanks, @James Daulton, for validating my previous post.

Hey snowflake, get over it. It's the era of no political correctness. Stop whining about what you're being called ...

 

[James Daulton]

@Slapdash - Remember when I talked about the left calling everyone a moron or racist who voted for Trump?  Yeah, prime example #1 above.  This may not be you, but it certainly is the majority of the left.

Thanks, @James Daulton, for validating my previous post.

If they possess the skills to compete in today's economy, why are they so concerned about "getting jobs back."  I called no one a moron or racist, just stated the fact that plumbers, electricians, hvac guys aren't worried about losing their jobs overseas.  Manufacturing is, and if you think manufacturing is a sustainable job skill I don't know what to tell you.

And you don't dispute the religious right do you?

 

[Slapdash]

@Slapdash - Remember when I talked about the left calling everyone a moron or racist who voted for Trump?  Yeah, prime example #1 above.  This may not be you, but it certainly is the majority of the left.

Thanks, @James Daulton, for validating my previous post.

Far too many, I agree.  I have called some posters out about it before.  Not only is it untrue, but its counter-productive.  As is generalizing about "the left"

 

[Slapdash]

Crap. Seriously last time I'm dealing with this. I was actually bored enough to go back through that thread, and in it stated on multiple occassions that I thought Obama was born in Hawaii. You can look for yourself since it is so dire in your processing of this.

Of course that means when it comes to credibility based upon that thread - which is your criteria - you simply don't have any. 

So keep publishing your fake news, or go back and then come here and apologize if you so choose. Either way I'm done.

Whatever makes you feel better, dude. 

You know what you posted under Bronco Billy, Pony Boy, and PBoy alias.  Claiming that you think Obama is born in Hawaii while making hundreds of posts quoting and supporting birther crap doesn't absolve you.  I remember and I'm not going to apologize.  It is just sad that your most outrageous work has been lost in a purge.

 

[timschochet]

Whatever makes you feel better, dude. 

You know what you posted under Bronco Billy, Pony Boy, and PBoy alias.  Claiming that you think Obama is born in Hawaii while making hundreds of posts quoting and supporting birther crap doesn't absolve you.  I remember and I'm not going to apologize.  It is just sad that your most outrageous work has been lost in a purge.

Your memory is accurate, Slapdash.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Hey snowflake, get over it. It's the era of no political correctness. Stop whining about what you're being called ...

I'm the snowflake?  Get real.  You're the one completely lost your bacon on election night and has continued with your meltdown in the subsequent weeks.  

I was simply pointing out that as long as hateful people like you continue to degrade and demean voting blocks because they don't vote like you, guys like Trump will continue to get elected.  I don't know - maybe learn something from your mistakes now and then... or not - but then don't complain that things didn't go your way.

 

[timschochet]

Please explain how supporting Hillary Clinton to the exclusion of all others was the correct decision. 

It wasn't to the "exclusion of all others." It was against Bernie Sanders, and then against Donald Trump.

I supported Hillary Clinton against Bernie Sanders because (a) I preferred her centrism to his populist leftism and (b) because I thought she would have a better chance to defeat Donald Trump, whom by then I believed would be the Republican nominee. I may have been wrong about point (b); despite tons of arguments about this, we will never know. If I had known beforehand that Hillary would lose to Trump and Bernie might not have lost, then of course I would have chosen Bernie as I far prefer him to Trump. But I could not have known beforehand, and my main reason for preferring Hillary was my preference of her policy positions.

But beyond myself, even those people who voted for Hillary over Bernie mainly for what they believed to be pragmatic reasons (because they thought Bernie could not win in November) are not themselves responsible for Hillary's victory over Bernie- this is a myth, spread by the same people who believe the DNC significantly impacted the nomination on behalf of Hillary. Neither is true. Hillary won the nomination against Bernie for the same reason that Obama won the nomination against Hillary- because the black vote in the south controls who wins the Democratic nomination.

 

[timschochet]

I was simply pointing out that as long as hateful people like you continue to degrade and demean voting blocks because the don't vote like you, guys like Trump will continue to get elected.  I don't know - maybe learn something from your mistakes now and then... or not - but then don't complain that things didn't go your way.

Hey Max, I hear this over and over again, and maybe it's true. But if it IS true, it's less a slam on the "hateful people" than it is on the voters who react to them. I can't imagine going to the voting booth and saying to myself, "You know what? I'm going to vote for this guy, because it will piss these people off! That'll show' em!" I mean it's a really silly reaction, don't you think?

 

[MaxThreshold]

Hey Max, I hear this over and over again, and maybe it's true. But if it IS true, it's less a slam on the "hateful people" than it is on the voters who react to them. I can't imagine going to the voting booth and saying to myself, "You know what? I'm going to vote for this guy, because it will piss these people off! That'll show' em!" I mean it's a really silly reaction, don't you think?

I think it's one of the reasons, not the only reason.  For people on the fence, it just might be the thing that pushes them over the edge.  People don't like to be called racists and "phobes" day in and day out for simply having different views.

 

[Wrigley]

Trump was elected by a seething mass of mainly white men who don't possess the requisite skills to compete in today's marketplace. 

So what?

Arent most elections determined by people that can't compete in today's marketplace?  

The democrates have cornered the market exploiting this.  

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow]

If they possess the skills to compete in today's economy, why are they so concerned about "getting jobs back."  I called no one a moron or racist, just stated the fact that plumbers, electricians, hvac guys aren't worried about losing their jobs overseas.  Manufacturing is, and if you think manufacturing is a sustainable job skill I don't know what to tell you.

And you don't dispute the religious right do you?

Lots of reasons for the bolded part above imo:

1) Highly skilled people in regards to today's economy usually live within a family, community, etc. that has others in need of jobs; they support these important members of their lives.

2) They believe it is good for the power, stability, growth, economy, etc. of the USA.

3) They possess the skills but may lack other prerequisites (e.g. health, clean legal record, etc.) to compete in today's economy.

4) They rely on those once holding the lost jobs as a customer base.

5) They care for thier fellow woman/man.

Note: I am incredibly biased against Trump; can't stand the man; mock him mercilessly...for fun; and did not vote for him, but I love many people who did.  My life works much smoother when I try to get into their heads.  Also, since this is an experience of empathy, I am probably missing many, many other reasons.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Crap. Seriously last time I'm dealing with this. I was actually bored enough to go back through that thread, and in it stated on multiple occassions that I thought Obama was born in Hawaii. You can look for yourself since it is so dire in your processing of this.

Of course that means when it comes to credibility based upon that thread - which is your criteria - you simply don't have any. 

So keep publishing your fake news, or go back and then come here and apologize if you so choose. Either way I'm done.

Whatever makes you feel better, dude. 

You know what you posted under Bronco Billy, Pony Boy, and PBoy alias.  Claiming that you think Obama is born in Hawaii while making hundreds of posts quoting and supporting birther crap doesn't absolve you.  I remember and I'm not going to apologize.  It is just sad that your most outrageous work has been lost in a purge.

Yeah Pony Boy is among the most ignorant posters this forum has ever known.  Birther, Global Warming apologist, OBL mission was some sort of ruse, etc, etc, etc.  Thought he quit posting in here years ago after so many instances of just embarrassing himself, so glad to see he got the cholesterol under control though. 

 

[Bronco Billy]

Yeah Pony Boy is among the most ignorant posters this forum has ever known.  Birther, Global Warming apologist, OBL mission was some sort of ruse, etc, etc, etc.  Thought he quit posting in here years ago after so many instances of just embarrassing himself, so glad to see he got the cholesterol under control though. 

Okay, so we're going to take an opportunity to pile on here, huh?

Let's get right to the heart on this whole issue.  Yes, I supported those who were asking for Obama's BC. It wasn't because I agreed with them. I stated numerous times that I thought Obama was born in Hawaii. What I also stated numerous times was the application of the law. The Constitution is clear about the requirements of President, and Federal law is quite clear on what is required for identity of citizenship when it comes to basic documents, such as the requirement of an original BC to acquire a passport.  A level if proof is required, and that same level of proof should be reasonably expected for someone running for the highest office in the land.

So while I disagreed with their position, I supported their expectation that the law be applied.  It's the same kind of principle as that which allows the KKK to march in Skokie, IL.  I find the KKK abhorant in every aspect, but I will absolutely support their right to assemble as guaranteed by the Constitution.  The same with burning the flag.  I think it is a vile act of disrespect but I will unequivocably support a person's right to do so.

Unfortunately our progressive friends here think that only applies when it favors their ideology.  For some odd reason they think rights only flow one way.  So their ideology tramples others' rights when it makes them feel good about it.  It's why they think it's wonderful that a small bakery can be driven out of business by the Federal government because it they want to exercize their freedom of religion.  I think they are misgiven for turning down the business, but I support their 1st Amendment protections.  That protection goes both ways.

It's also what makes our progressive friends like those above dangerous.  They love to stoop to smear tactics when things don't go as they feel is the "proper" way it should go.  Unfortunately, though they don't seem to be thoughtless, they for sone reason never consider the consequences to what they support in skirting the law and others' rights.

At the time they just don't think ahead at all, and so they don't consider that Donald Trump also "has a pen and a phone" or that someone in the incoming administration may also wantoning fail to pro-actively protect information and instead circumvent the security of classified documents in an effort to shield their communications from public scrutiny.

If that happens, I'll be on their side in calling for the law to be properly applied and the law of the land and its citizens adequately protected.  Because you progressives are so short sighted in advancing your ideology by whatever means does not mean that we all are.  We see the value of the law working both ways as the way to move this country forward.  It is definitely not a one way street. 

What I don't get is why you can't get that.

 

[skol asylum]

Progressives are short sighted in advancing their ideology. Interesting take. That's pretty much my same view on conservatives.