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The Republican party is in a death spiral... (1 Viewer)

-fish- said:
I think he just asked for an unsafe space.
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Thanks -fish-.  I'm not surprised in his answer since he regularly gets things completely wrong, but I thought it was obvious.  The last thing I want is a safe space.  Safe spaces are for those that need to make a separate thread for "supporters" and even delete the thread when they don't like how it goes.  I want an anti-safe space.  I want a "if you can't handle it then don't go in" thread.  I want a relaxed moderation thread, but it's not happening, so let's just forget it.

 
Dedfin said:
Thanks -fish-.  I'm not surprised in his answer since he regularly gets things completely wrong, but I thought it was obvious.  The last thing I want is a safe space.  Safe spaces are for those that need to make a separate thread for "supporters" and even delete the thread when they don't like how it goes.  I want an anti-safe space.  I want a "if you can't handle it then don't go in" thread.  I want a relaxed moderation thread, but it's not happening, so let's just forget it.
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All I asked was a simple question. :shrug:  

It was really more humor than anything else and I feel bad that you felt you had to make it personal.  If I offended you in anyway, I really do apologize.

 
Dedfin said:
Thanks -fish-.  I'm not surprised in his answer since he regularly gets things completely wrong, but I thought it was obvious.  The last thing I want is a safe space.  Safe spaces are for those that need to make a separate thread for "supporters" and even delete the thread when they don't like how it goes.  I want an anti-safe space.  I want a "if you can't handle it then don't go in" thread.  I want a relaxed moderation thread, but it's not happening, so let's just forget it.
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Please don't go down this path. We need to put a stop to this.

 
adonis said:
I don't mind the name change
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There was nothing wrong with the thread title. You gave your opinion and people are free to disagree. There was nothing offensive about it. It may not bother you but it doesn't sit well with me.

"I think I'm dying."

"No, you're just changing."

Is Frank Luntz running the board now?  :thumbdown:

 
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Mister CIA said:
I'd give Lisa Murkowski my undivided attention if she were to seek higher office and presented a slightly right of center message.
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Murkowski appears to be an amazing politician. Consider the fact that in 2010, the Tea Party successfully primaried her, with the help of Sarah Palin. Murkowski then had to run as an independent but her name was not on the ballot; voters had to write in "Murkowski". And they did. 

I believe that it is likely that in 2020 a Republican is going to run against Trump in the GOP primaries. Murkowski might be the perfect choice. 

 
Gachi said:
Governor John Kasich told Bill Maher that one of the former senators of Ohio that he looked up to (Robert Taft), a staunch conservative, once said "if somebody can't afford healthcare then the government should get it for them." 

How did "conservatives" go from that line of thinking to repeatedly voting to take away healthcare from 20+ million americans? 
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You could go back to Bismark - he was an arch-conservative, authoritarian who made democratic compromises when necessary, yet he instituted national health care in Germany. But then Euro conservatism was traditionally nationalist.

US conservatism broke away from that sort of conservatism after WW2, it became about limited government. Taft was an isolationist, a paleo-conservative, which was more protectionist and nationalist in character.

 
The republicans are establishing a new winning narrative.  That narrative is the democrats are racist against white people.  BLM, not enforcing immigration laws, being against the border wall, anti-Russia, being anti-cop, claiming women need to be more equal.....all of these issues are repackaged into one GIANT negative that it is ALL veiled racism against whites.  They could make jokes like "if Russia was full of latinos and Mexico was full of whites, democrats would want a border wall with Mexico" and it would actually get laughter.

This is how liberalism dies.  It dies because the republicans successfully link liberalism with racism.  When that link gets firmly established, it truly destroys Obama's legacy.  it becomes shameful to have voted for Obama.  The people who voted in Obama will be viewed as racists, people who hated whites for the color of their skin, and we need to move past color to progress.

 
Riversco said:
The republicans are establishing a new winning narrative.  That narrative is the democrats are racist against white people.  BLM, not enforcing immigration laws, being against the border wall, anti-Russia, being anti-cop, claiming women need to be more equal.....all of these issues are repackaged into one GIANT negative that it is ALL veiled racism against whites.  They could make jokes like "if Russia was full of latinos and Mexico was full of whites, democrats would want a border wall with Mexico" and it would actually get laughter.

This is how liberalism dies.  It dies because the republicans successfully link liberalism with racism.  When that link gets firmly established, it truly destroys Obama's legacy.  it becomes shameful to have voted for Obama.  The people who voted in Obama will be viewed as racists, people who hated whites for the color of their skin, and we need to move past color to progress.
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No. The "winning narrative" dies when all the 70 yr old racist Trump supporting  bigots die.

 
Riversco said:
The republicans are establishing a new winning narrative.  That narrative is the democrats are racist against white people.  BLM, not enforcing immigration laws, being against the border wall, anti-Russia, being anti-cop, claiming women need to be more equal.....all of these issues are repackaged into one GIANT negative that it is ALL veiled racism against whites.  They could make jokes like "if Russia was full of latinos and Mexico was full of whites, democrats would want a border wall with Mexico" and it would actually get laughter.

This is how liberalism dies.  It dies because the republicans successfully link liberalism with racism.  When that link gets firmly established, it truly destroys Obama's legacy.  it becomes shameful to have voted for Obama.  The people who voted in Obama will be viewed as racists, people who hated whites for the color of their skin, and we need to move past color to progress.
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Yea, I don't get how anyone can seriously look at this country and think for a second that white males are discriminated against.  By any metric you can look at, being born white and male gives you tremendous advantages in this country.  I think part of the issue is that working class young white men who have this belief need someone to blame for their own deficiencies.  I mean, if they don't make tons of money, have tons of chicks, someone out "there" must be working against them.

That's the tone I get when I read their posts on the heavily right leaning board I frequent. 

 
Riversco said:
The republicans are establishing a new winning narrative.  That narrative is the democrats are racist against white people.  BLM, not enforcing immigration laws, being against the border wall, anti-Russia, being anti-cop, claiming women need to be more equal.....all of these issues are repackaged into one GIANT negative that it is ALL veiled racism against whites.  They could make jokes like "if Russia was full of latinos and Mexico was full of whites, democrats would want a border wall with Mexico" and it would actually get laughter.

This is how liberalism dies.  It dies because the republicans successfully link liberalism with racism.  When that link gets firmly established, it truly destroys Obama's legacy.  it becomes shameful to have voted for Obama.  The people who voted in Obama will be viewed as racists, people who hated whites for the color of their skin, and we need to move past color to progress.
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And you don't think Dems are trying to shame Republicans with similar tactics?  I would go much further and suggest Dems are far worse in going about using such tactics. 

 
Riversco said:
The republicans are establishing a new winning narrative.  That narrative is the democrats are racist against white people.  BLM, not enforcing immigration laws, being against the border wall, anti-Russia, being anti-cop, claiming women need to be more equal.....all of these issues are repackaged into one GIANT negative that it is ALL veiled racism against whites.  They could make jokes like "if Russia was full of latinos and Mexico was full of whites, democrats would want a border wall with Mexico" and it would actually get laughter.

This is how liberalism dies.  It dies because the republicans successfully link liberalism with racism.  When that link gets firmly established, it truly destroys Obama's legacy.  it becomes shameful to have voted for Obama.  The people who voted in Obama will be viewed as racists, people who hated whites for the color of their skin, and we need to move past color to progress.
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So lying? 

 
JIslander said:
sure we do
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Lets not forget this gem

One by one, we are finding the illegal gang members, drug dealers, thieves, robbers, criminals, and killers. And we are sending them the hell back home where they came from,” President Trump told the crowd prompting applause.

“And once they are gone, we will never let them back in, believe me. The predators and criminal aliens who poison our communities with drugs and prey on innocent young people - these beautiful, beautiful, innocent young people - will find no safe haven anywhere in our country.”

And you’ve seen the stories about some of these animals. They don’t want to use guns because it’s too fast and it’s not painful enough. So they’ll take a young, beautiful girl, 16, 15, and others, and they slice them and dice them with a knife because they want them to go through excruciating pain before they die.”
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Riversco said:
The republicans are establishing a new winning narrative.  That narrative is the democrats are racist against white people.  BLM, not enforcing immigration laws, being against the border wall, anti-Russia, being anti-cop, claiming women need to be more equal.....all of these issues are repackaged into one GIANT negative that it is ALL veiled racism against whites.  They could make jokes like "if Russia was full of latinos and Mexico was full of whites, democrats would want a border wall with Mexico" and it would actually get laughter.

This is how liberalism dies.  It dies because the republicans successfully link liberalism with racism.  When that link gets firmly established, it truly destroys Obama's legacy.  it becomes shameful to have voted for Obama.  The people who voted in Obama will be viewed as racists, people who hated whites for the color of their skin, and we need to move past color to progress.
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you are a weird dude

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
This is what happens when a party abandons ideas.
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Trump's election isn't about ideas...it's a reaction to the liberalization of America.  It's a reaction to folks being told they were wrong, politically incorrect, being told that minorities need special advantages, being told that immigrants are welcome in our country and can enjoy the services we pay for.  

Trump was a primal cry from white folks, mainly white males, who felt like the direction the country had been going is wrong and that they were being left out, and demonized.  

Trump was here to tell the country emphatically, boorishly, confidently that this was all wrong.  Cut the PC stuff.  Let's make America back like it used to be.  No immigrants...no muslims...keep it christian.  Let's put US first, because we've been left behind for decades!

This message really resonated with folks, but it spoke to their emotional state ONLY.  The policies were horrible.  A path to get there to many was non-existent.  And in reality, these were not GOP positions, although the GOP has been using those feelings for decades to win in many places.

So here we have the culmination in Trump of all the emotions and feelings about the country and its government the GOP has been fomenting for decades, and we find that it's almost completely asinine.  It's not based in fact.  It's not based in any solid policy.  It's not good for the country.  It's just an outgrowth of anger at white folks, largely, being marginalized and passed up by women, blacks, gay folks, transgender folks, muslims, immigrants, and on and on....all at the hands, seemingly, of the federal government and Obama.

So we get Trump...who taps into this anger very effectively, but has essentially NO policy positions that make sense whereby we can improve the country and lives of our citizens.  We can't recapture a former imaginary glory, where things were largely good for white-landowning males.  The world is different, our country is different, and Trump was basically lying (or incredibly naive) to suggest that we could.

Which gets us back to the idea that the GOP has intellectually been bankrupted, and Trump shows the 0 balance in the account.  Many other GOP leaders also have a 0 balance because they are hugging Trump like he's some paragon of values or ideas or GOP orthodoxy.  But when it's time to put up or shut up, Trump has no ability to either put up, or shut up.  He's bankrupt, the GOP is bankrupt of ideas, and the US citizens are along for the ride.

 
Mile High said:
The whole white American males are discriminated against in this country has got to be a joke.
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It's not.  I think folks who feel this way wouldn't say, outright, they're being discriminated against, but rather that all other groups are being advantaged over/before them.  Gays, blacks, women, immigrants, muslims, and so on are all getting benefits that aren't extended to white males, and society is changing they'd say for the worse because of it.  And what's worse is that it's THEIR tax dollars being taken by the government to pay for all these benefits to all these other people.

If you don't think there's a HUGE population of folks who think this way, then you probably don't live in the south :) .

 
Riversco said:
The republicans are establishing a new winning narrative.  That narrative is the democrats are racist against white people.  BLM, not enforcing immigration laws, being against the border wall, anti-Russia, being anti-cop, claiming women need to be more equal.....all of these issues are repackaged into one GIANT negative that it is ALL veiled racism against whites.  They could make jokes like "if Russia was full of latinos and Mexico was full of whites, democrats would want a border wall with Mexico" and it would actually get laughter.

This is how liberalism dies.  It dies because the republicans successfully link liberalism with racism.  When that link gets firmly established, it truly destroys Obama's legacy.  it becomes shameful to have voted for Obama.  The people who voted in Obama will be viewed as racists, people who hated whites for the color of their skin, and we need to move past color to progress.
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What? This post is not even remotely in touch with a bit of reality or in part with facts. 

 
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Ilov80s said:
How so?
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Okay maybe i dont get it. Ive never seen a candidate on a ballot (for major office) with no political party.  I thought the parties dictate to our election offices who makes the ballot based on the organization and money to do so. Where am i wrong?

 
Dedfin said:
Okay maybe i dont get it. Ive never seen a candidate on a ballot (for major office) with no political party.  I thought the parties dictate to our election offices who makes the ballot based on the organization and money to do so. Where am i wrong?
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Each state has their own ballot access laws, but none restrict the ballot only to candidates of certain political parties.  The Democratic nominee might not have to specifically petition for ballot access in Nebraska the way an independent candidate might, but nothing bars the independent from being on the ballot if other conditions (typically petition signatures) are met.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
It's not like I'm a huge fan of the Democratic party, but they're not the problem here.
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I am not blaming Democrats for out current problem. I am partially blaming the party system though. The entire idea of partisan politics leads to groupthink or votes against personal beliefs or the beliefs on the constituents in order to fall in line with the party. It also leads to less informed voters who just look for a D or an R when they vote without often knowing much about the person or their beliefs. It also leads to people treating politics like sports where anything their team does is good and the other side does is bad. 

 
This isn't really Devos related but it's her old gang of GOP Michigan legislators dicking around with Michigan social studies standards.

Here are some of the great highlights:

- Reduce references to the NAACP to 1

- Eliminate teaching about the KKK

- Removal of Roe v Wade and mentions of LGTBQ, disabled and immigrants as minority groups. Instead it has been replaced with this:" teach how the expansion of rights for some groups can be viewed as an infringement of rights and freedoms of others"   Stealthy would like that one

- No more mentioning of "democratic core values" because it has the word democratic in it.

https://www.bridgemi.com/talent-education/history-gets-conservative-twist-michigan-social-studies-standards

The removal of the KKK is because the GOP couldn't get what they wanted in about the KKK. The original standard was to teach the KKK was an anti-Republican group and only targeted blacks because they typically voted Democrat. 

Also I love how they continue to say they want this to be apolitical (hence removing the any word that has "democrat" in it but there are zero Democratic legislators involved in this process. 

 
Ilov80s said:
I am not blaming Democrats for out current problem. I am partially blaming the party system though. 
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The two party system where both are beholden to special interests.  This is the ultimate problem.  It's good to see people like Beto and Kamala Harris not taking super pac money.  I'm curious how this trend plays out.  I'm curious if any R's have made this commitment. 

 
although I have heard Harris takes Raytheon money. Get rid of all corporate donors so the people can get what they want.

 
urbanhack said:
The two party system where both are beholden to special interests.  This is the ultimate problem.  It's good to see people like Beto and Kamala Harris not taking super pac money.  I'm curious how this trend plays out.  I'm curious if any R's have made this commitment. 
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Are you okay with Harris taking union money?  I know I am.  And union money is absolutely special interest money.

I agree that money is a big problem in politics.  I don't know how to fix it.  But I think we go too far when we automatically equate money with evil influence.  Lobbying is an absolutely necessary and valuable part of our system.  How can we expect our political leaders to make big systemic policy decisions without being informed of the facts and impacts?  

 
Ilov80s said:
I am not blaming Democrats for out current problem. I am partially blaming the party system though. The entire idea of partisan politics leads to groupthink or votes against personal beliefs or the beliefs on the constituents in order to fall in line with the party. It also leads to less informed voters who just look for a D or an R when they vote without often knowing much about the person or their beliefs. It also leads to people treating politics like sports where anything their team does is good and the other side does is bad. 
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Why would a party change it's behavior if when they go crazy, the populance blames both sides?  They essentially get to screw over the populance, while only getting half the blame.  

Nothing personally IIlov80s, b/c I'm a fan of yours as a poster, but stuff like this boils my blood.  Both sides-ing everything contributes to the problem. 

 
tommyGunZ said:
Why would a party change it's behavior if when they go crazy, the populance blames both sides?  They essentially get to screw over the populance, while only getting half the blame.  

Nothing personally IIlov80s, b/c I'm a fan of yours as a poster, but stuff like this boils my blood.  Both sides-ing everything contributes to the problem. 
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I am not both sidesing anything. I am not putting any blame on the Democrats in my posts above. The system has flaws and could be improved IMO. Simple as that. 

 
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