The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (6 Viewers)

[SaintsInDome2006]

>>Fmr. Nixon White House counsel John Dean: "In many ways, the Mueller report is to President Trump what the so-called Watergate road map ... was to President Richard Nixon." Via ABC<<

KGriffin

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

John Dean’s statement.

- This is a side by comparison of events from the Mueller report to impeachment charges of Nixon.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Jim Jordan, folks.

 

[Mario Kart]

Some highlights.

His best quote/truth is when he said, "...you were not born at the time this all happened." It is Gaetz's job, as well as others, to do their homework if they are asking questions about Nixon and that impeachment process. At minimum, do the homework from Clinton. But, Gaetz and Jordan and possibly others have done little to no homework. This demonstrates his/others simple-mindedness and/or close-mindedness. These are no way to govern.

 

[Opie]

>>Fmr. Nixon White House counsel John Dean: "In many ways, the Mueller report is to President Trump what the so-called Watergate road map ... was to President Richard Nixon." Via ABC<<

KGriffin

So this is what...the third time that Dean has compared a Republican POTUS to Watergate?

THIS is the leadoff hitter for the Democrats?

A disbarred, convicted felon who was a "star witness" from an trial that took place over forty years ago?

A man who cannot remember how much money he made from a book he wrote about how he became a disbarred, convicted felon?
A man who cannot remember how much money he has made by being a paid contributor to CNN?
A man who has posted 970 anti-Trump tweets.
A man whose first words out of his mouth was that he was not a "fact" witness?

If not a "fact" witness...was his only purpose to tie the names of Nixon and Watergate to this circus?

Jeez...if you're going to present him as a witness for a cover up, will Bill Clinton be the first witness in any impeachment hearing?

 

[Widbil83]

I'm not giving you or anyone a hard time, I'm just trying to understand what you think this affects. You don't see any single indictment, conviction or claim from the Mueller report affected by this then?

I'm just saying you crack the dossier wide open like a coconut - hey I want to know who Sources A-E are, just as an example - and no one indicted and no claim from the OSC will be changed, right?

Sorry for the late response, I was given a vacation by one of the 5 posters who reports on anybody anti Democrat for any little thing imaginable. 

Yes I think the entire investigation is completely bogus and people caught up in in it should have their convictions over turned immediately.  It’s insane how people’s lives have been ruined over this. 

 

[knowledge dropper]

So this is what...the third time that Dean has compared a Republican POTUS to Watergate?

THIS is the leadoff hitter for the Democrats?

A disbarred, convicted felon who was a "star witness" from an trial that took place over forty years ago?

A man who cannot remember how much money he made from a book he wrote about how he became a disbarred, convicted felon?
A man who cannot remember how much money he has made by being a paid contributor to CNN?
A man whose first words out of his mouth was that he was not a "fact" witness?

If not a "fact" witness...was his only purpose to tie the names of Nixon and Watergate to this circus?

Jeez...if you're going to present him as a witness for a cover up, will Bill Clinton be the first witness in any impeachment hearing?

I think Rachel Maddow is up next.  

 

[Opie]

I think Rachel Maddow is up next.  

She'll be batting cleanup.

 

[Widbil83]

So this is what...the third time that Dean has compared a Republican POTUS to Watergate?

THIS is the leadoff hitter for the Democrats?

A disbarred, convicted felon who was a "star witness" from an trial that took place over forty years ago?

A man who cannot remember how much money he made from a book he wrote about how he became a disbarred, convicted felon?
A man who cannot remember how much money he has made by being a paid contributor to CNN?
A man who has posted 970 anti-Trump tweets.
A man whose first words out of his mouth was that he was not a "fact" witness?

If not a "fact" witness...was his only purpose to tie the names of Nixon and Watergate to this circus?

Jeez...if you're going to present him as a witness for a cover up, will Bill Clinton be the first witness in any impeachment hearing?

Even the usual Democrat suspects seem to be embarrassed by this approach. CNN doesn’t even have this on their front page and the guy works for the network.

 

[Skoo]

Sorry for the late response, I was given a vacation by one of the 5 posters who reports on anybody anti Democrat for any little thing imaginable. 

Yes I think the entire investigation is completely bogus and people caught up in in it should have their convictions over turned immediately.  It’s insane how people’s lives have been ruined over this. 

You mean the people who committed crimes and got jail time?

Kind of feel like it's their fault. They're the ones who broke the law.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Sorry for the late response, I was given a vacation by one of the 5 posters who reports on anybody anti Democrat for any little thing imaginable. 

Yes I think the entire investigation is completely bogus and people caught up in in it should have their convictions over turned immediately.  It’s insane how people’s lives have been ruined over this. 

Thanks for the response, but you understand I was asking for something specific? I’m just asking you to think about what you have seen or read on this from your end.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

If not a "fact" witness...was his only purpose to tie the names of Nixon and Watergate to this circus?

Just in response to my specific point, he was saying the return of the grand jury’s finding of facts in 1974 was comparable to the Mueller report. The GJ also said they could not indict the President.

I actually agree that starting with Dean or even calling him is not helpful, but the GOP was pretty ridiculous in its attacks given how simple his overarching point was.

 

[Sheriff Bart]

You mean the people who committed crimes and got jail time?

Kind of feel like it's their fault. They're the ones who broke the law.

Kind of a agree with Bill. You get busted in some bullcrap speed trap and they find a bunch of drugs on you, well that should be overturned immediately. 

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Just in response to my specific point, he was saying the return of the grand jury’s finding of facts in 1974 was comparable to the Mueller report. The GJ also said they could not indict the President.

I actually agree that starting with Dean or even calling him is not helpful, but the GOP was pretty ridiculous in its attacks given how simple his overarching point was.

Over the last few days, when people were saying that they were starting with John Dean, I thought they meant it metaphorically — the present-day version of John Dean. I didn’t know who they meant (maybe Don McGahn?), but it didn’t remotely occur to me that they meant John Dean.

 

[Mario Kart]

Over the last few days, when people were saying that they were starting with John Dean, I thought they meant it metaphorically — the present-day version of John Dean. I didn’t know who they meant (maybe Don McGahn?), but it didn’t remotely occur to me that they meant John Dean.

He makes good sausages. Have to start every hearing with a good breakfast.

 

[Henry Ford]

Over the last few days, when people were saying that they were starting with John Dean, I thought they meant it metaphorically — the present-day version of John Dean. I didn’t know who they meant (maybe Don McGahn?), but it didn’t remotely occur to me that they meant John Dean.

This is why, with a party as wretched as the Republican Party that also happens to take stances against what the majority of people want in this country, Democrats still have tough election battles. 

“If liberals are so ####ing smart, how come they lose so ###-damned always?” -Aaron Sorkin, through Will McAvoy.

Or, as they’d say in New Orleans, “those idiots could #### up a one-man second line.”

 

[pecorino]

Not sure if this is the right thread to posit this, but it's now almost mid-June, the Mueller report has been out for a couple months and we keep hearing about impeachment but no direct action is happening on that front. Dawned on me that the best strategy for the Dems to is to just continue the rhetoric, keep the "I" word in the public ear, go ahead and conduct some interviews, but generally ride this out until next November. I believe I read this theory a month or two ago (don't remember the source) but it makes sense given where we are in the election cycle. There is very little downside for the Dems in that, despite some calls to begin impeachment hearings, they are not going to lose much support if they don't. So it's a very low risk proposition. At the same time, it lets them beat the drum right up until the election without any vote that they would likely lose in the Senate. Pelosi has shown herself to be a smart cookie--this seems like the wisest path to take.

 

[zoonation]

Not sure if this is the right thread to posit this, but it's now almost mid-June, the Mueller report has been out for a couple months and we keep hearing about impeachment but no direct action is happening on that front. Dawned on me that the best strategy for the Dems to is to just continue the rhetoric, keep the "I" word in the public ear, go ahead and conduct some interviews, but generally ride this out until next November. I believe I read this theory a month or two ago (don't remember the source) but it makes sense given where we are in the election cycle. There is very little downside for the Dems in that, despite some calls to begin impeachment hearings, they are not going to lose much support if they don't. So it's a very low risk proposition. At the same time, it lets them beat the drum right up until the election without any vote that they would likely lose in the Senate. Pelosi has shown herself to be a smart cookie--this seems like the wisest path to take.

Unless you believe that Congress has a constitutional duty to take steps to remove Trump from office for high crimes and/or misdemeanors.  Trump is a man who, but for holding the office of President, would have been indicted.  He is unfit for office.

If all you care about is 2020, then yeah, I agree with you.

 

[pecorino]

Unless you believe that Congress has a constitutional duty to take steps to remove Trump from office for high crimes and/or misdemeanors.  Trump is a man who, but for holding the office of President, would have been indicted.  He is unfit for office.

If all you care about is 2020, then yeah, I agree with you.

Oh, I care about the truth and holding people accountable but I don't think for a second that Nancy and the rest of the Democrats are interested in anything more than winning in 2020.

 

[Sinn Fein]

oof - I guess the devil is in the details:

Betsy Woodruff‏Verified account @woodruffbets

New: Two senior administration officials tell me the White House will work with DOJ to decide what Mueller evidence Nadler and House Judiciary get to see

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

oof - I guess the devil is in the details:

Betsy Woodruff‏Verified account @woodruffbets

New: Two senior administration officials tell me the White House will work with DOJ to decide what Mueller evidence Nadler and House Judiciary get to see

Of course. I think Nadler is still holding the vote because of eventualities just like this.

 

[Gr00vus]

Not sure if this is the right thread to posit this, but it's now almost mid-June, the Mueller report has been out for a couple months and we keep hearing about impeachment but no direct action is happening on that front. Dawned on me that the best strategy for the Dems to is to just continue the rhetoric, keep the "I" word in the public ear, go ahead and conduct some interviews, but generally ride this out until next November. I believe I read this theory a month or two ago (don't remember the source) but it makes sense given where we are in the election cycle. There is very little downside for the Dems in that, despite some calls to begin impeachment hearings, they are not going to lose much support if they don't. So it's a very low risk proposition. At the same time, it lets them beat the drum right up until the election without any vote that they would likely lose in the Senate. Pelosi has shown herself to be a smart cookie--this seems like the wisest path to take.

A problem with this approach (beyond not doing the right thing in general) is that the thing that was being investigated, and was found to have actually taken place - Russian interference in our election process - is still going on. By not embarking on a continuance of that investigation via the Impeachment route, you lose an avenue for informing the public of the scope and urgency of that problem, removing pressure from the public to have something done about it. And the Russian's aren't acting on behalf of the Democrats (currently). Thus it might not be the best move politically either.

 

[The Commish]

oof - I guess the devil is in the details:

Betsy Woodruff‏Verified account @woodruffbets

New: Two senior administration officials tell me the White House will work with DOJ to decide what Mueller evidence Nadler and House Judiciary get to see

Wait....Barr is finally going to look at the evidence?  What a novel concept for an Attorney General  

 

[Sinn Fein]

Wait....Barr is finally going to look at the evidence?  What a novel concept for an Attorney General  

Not necessarily - might just be someone else at DOJ who has run the evidence past the white house first...

 

[Jackstraw]

Mitch McConnell is blocking a bill to prevent foreign interference in 2020. Absolute traitor. If I could run any one person up the yard arm it would be him. No American has worked more actively to destroy democracy in this country maybe....ever. 

 

[sho nuff]

Mitch McConnell is blocking a bill to prevent foreign interference in 2020. Absolute traitor. If I could run any one person up the yard arm it would be him. No American has worked more actively to destroy democracy in this country maybe....ever. 

It’s cool though...because emails, or Fusion GPS, or Uranium One...or something.

And telling that all those who don’t actually support Trump and scream “both sides!” won’t say a word about McConnell.

 

[ren hoek]

Mitch McConnell is blocking a bill to prevent foreign interference in 2020. Absolute traitor. If I could run any one person up the yard arm it would be him. No American has worked more actively to destroy democracy in this country maybe....ever. 

Absolute traitor?  What’s actually in the bill?  

 

[dkp993]

Absolute traitor?  What’s actually in the bill?  

So this you want to read.  Interesting 

 

[eurotrashman]

Sorry for the late response, I was given a vacation by one of the 5 posters who reports on anybody anti Democrat for any little thing imaginable.

Yes I think the entire investigation is completely bogus and people caught up in in it should have their convictions over turned immediately. 

So people found guilty in a court of law where their crimes were discovered as part of the original instructions for the special council should be set free??  If the same evidence appears during the 2020 election that Iran or China are trying to interfere in our election regardless of party should we not investigate?  

 

[ren hoek]

Reason I ask is because there was a headline a while back about how the US had spent "zero" of $120 million to "fight Russian meddling".  Major press outlets were begging Trump to make use of this program.

Turns out, the program was used to smear supporters of US-Iran diplomacy.  Even better, the State Dept. appears to have done so in collaboration with the FDD for regime change in Iran.  This is basically an American version of the UK's Integrity Initiative program which was used to smear Jeremy Corbyn as a Russian agent. 

When the US govt’s Global Engagement Center was codified by Congress at the peak of the Fake News Panic in late 2016/early 2017, I and others warned it would be used to propagandize American citizens.(https://www.thenation.com/article/us-officials-wont-say-if-a-new-anti-russia-propaganda-project-is-targeting-americans/) Shocker: this is exactly what it was used for.

And the only reason the State Dept stopped this one campaign is because it was shoddy and staffed out to the FDD. Who know what their sophisticated propaganda campaigns look like? But recall that last spring liberal and centrist media were BEGGING trump to ramp up the program.

One of the many net downsides of the Fake News Panic is it has liberals pressuring a far rightwing, hostile president to use his State Dept to anonymously & without disclosure manipulate social media to combat so-called “foreign propaganda”. Of course this was going to be abused.

In March 2017 the Global Engagement Center nor the GAO would tell me if their new $120 million program to combat “foreign propaganda” would be used on American citizens. The reason they wouldn’t answer the question is because it’s obvious it would. Now we know it is.

The Russia hysteria gift just keeps on giving.  What horrible programs will they think of to "prevent foreign interference" next? 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Turns out, the program was used to smear supporters of US-Iran diplomacy. 

Yep, I agree this is awful on two counts.

 

[Jackstraw]

Absolute traitor?  What’s actually in the bill?  

There’s PLENTY more than that.....brah. Member how he said he would accuse Obama of meddling in the election if O publicized....meddling in the election. Virtually destroying the Senate’s ability to function. Unprecedented obstruction when he’s out of power. unprecedented abuse when he’s in power. Lying. CORRUPTION WITH A CAPITAL C. He’s a really really bad person. Really bad. 

 

[Herb]

Reason I ask is because there was a headline a while back about how the US had spent "zero" of $120 million to "fight Russian meddling".  Major press outlets were begging Trump to make use of this program.

Turns out, the program was used to smear supporters of US-Iran diplomacy.  Even better, the State Dept. appears to have done so in collaboration with the FDD for regime change in Iran.  This is basically an American version of the UK's Integrity Initiative program which was used to smear Jeremy Corbyn as a Russian agent. 

The Russia hysteria gift just keeps on giving.  What horrible programs will they think of to "prevent foreign interference" next? 

I used to think of the phrase "post-truth world" as a sort of snarky tagline uttered by people who mostly just didn't philosophically agree with the subject matter at which they were pointing that jibe.

Now...

The Matrix seems less like science fiction every day. Just inject your brain with your predisposed beliefs and hold on for dear life cuz no one knows wtf is even real anymore.

 

[zoonation]

I used to think of the phrase "post-truth world" as a sort of snarky tagline uttered by people who mostly just didn't philosophically agree with the subject matter at which they were pointing that jibe.

Now...

The Matrix seems less like science fiction every day. Just inject your brain with your predisposed beliefs and hold on for dear life cuz no one knows wtf is even real anymore.

Trump World.  Brought to you by Silicon Valley. 

 

[Rove!]

So people found guilty in a court of law where their crimes were discovered as part of the original instructions for the special council should be set free??  If the same evidence appears during the 2020 election that Iran or China are trying to interfere in our election regardless of party should we not investigate?  

The only one found guilty of a crime in a court of law is Manafort.  Others pleaded guilty to make the persecution go away.  According to the latest transcripts, it looks like Flynn didn’t lie, for example.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The only one found guilty of a crime in a court of law is Manafort.  Others pleaded guilty to make the persecution go away.  According to the latest transcripts, it looks like Flynn didn’t lie, for example.

Good lord, do you think he might tell a judge that one day?

Actually no snark, he still hasn’t revealed who his lawyers are. 

 

[Herb]

The only one found guilty of a crime in a court of law is Manafort.  Others pleaded guilty to make the persecution go away. 

Sure they did.

IMO you're one of the more thoughtful, engaging Trump supporters around here and I respect your opinions,  even if I don't agree with many of them. But this line of thinking is pure partisan horse####. 

Like SiD said, tell it to the judge. 

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

The only one found guilty of a crime in a court of law is Manafort.  Others pleaded guilty to make the persecution go away.  According to the latest transcripts, it looks like Flynn didn’t lie, for example.

I’m not a lawyer so I could be wrong but all that correct.

Client: I didn’t commit any crimes at all

Lawyer: Are you telling the absolute truth? You’re totally not guilty?

Client: Yes! I didn’t do anything illegal. I’m being persecuted!

Lawyer: Well then my advice to you is to plead guilty. That will make the persecution go away.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I’m not a lawyer so I could be wrong but all that correct.

Client: I didn’t commit any crimes at all

Lawyer: Are you telling the absolute truth? You’re totally not guilty?

Client: Yes! I didn’t do anything illegal. I’m being persecuted!

Lawyer: Well then my advice to you is to plead guilty. That will make the persecution go away.

I think that happens with some frequency.

Not in Flynn’s or Gates’s or Cohen’s case, though. All of the convictions stemming from the Mueller investigation seem extremely well supported by evidence in the public record.

 

[Sheriff Bart]

I’m not a lawyer so I could be wrong but all that correct.

Client: I didn’t commit any crimes at all

Lawyer: Are you telling the absolute truth? You’re totally not guilty?

Client: Yes! I didn’t do anything illegal. I’m being persecuted!

Lawyer: Well then my advice to you is to plead guilty. That will make the persecution go away.

Sounds pretty lawyery. 

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

I think that happens with some frequency.

Not in Flynn’s or Gates’s or Cohen’s case, though. All of the convictions stemming from the Mueller investigation seem extremely well supported by evidence in the public record.

What’s the frequency, Kenneth?

 

[badmojo1006]

The only one found guilty of a crime in a court of law is Manafort.  Others pleaded guilty to make the persecution go away.  According to the latest transcripts, it looks like Flynn didn’t lie, for example.

Who would plead guilty if they are innocent?

 

[zoonation]

Who would plead guilty if they are innocent?

Lots and lots of people do, unfortunately.  The criminal justice system is broken.  

Not guys like this though, to your point.  

 

[Raylan]

I think Rachel Maddow is up next.  

Disbarred and indicted extortionist, fraudster, and embezzler Creepy Porn Lawyer was the hero of the anti-Trump crowd just a few months ago.

They are not sending their best.

 

[Raylan]

Unless you believe that Congress has a constitutional duty to take steps to remove Trump from office for high crimes and/or misdemeanors.  Trump is a man who, but for holding the office of President, would have been indicted.  He is unfit for office.

If all you care about is 2020, then yeah, I agree with you.

Can we get a list of these "high crimes and misdemeanors"?

You may want to forward it to Mueller since he was unable to find them even with his $30 million dollar budget, no time limit, no scope limit, FBI predawn SWAT raids, altered 302s and transcripts, hundreds of witness interviews, millions of pages of turned over documents, and cover from a complicit media.

 

[Raylan]

Mitch McConnell is blocking a bill to prevent foreign interference in 2020. Absolute traitor. If I could run any one person up the yard arm it would be him. No American has worked more actively to destroy democracy in this country maybe....ever. 

Obama did a pretty fine job.

Weaponizing the intelligence community to spy on an opposing party's presidential candidate in order to first prevent him from winning an election then to undermine his presidency will go down as the biggest scandal/disgrace in US history.

I know you guys are pot committed to your conspiracy so it is difficult to evaluate actual evidence, but it is not looking good. It will be interesting to look back on this thread a year from now and see who was actually honest with their disdain for Russia collusion and quest for justice, no matter where it led and who was involved, and who just wanted to see Trump taken out no matter what. 

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Can we get a list of these "high crimes and misdemeanors"?

You may want to forward it to Mueller since he was unable to find them even with his $30 million dollar budget, no time limit, no scope limit, FBI predawn SWAT raids, altered 302s and transcripts, hundreds of witness interviews, millions of pages of turned over documents, and cover from a complicit media.

Somebody should send the Mueller report to Mueller.

 

[zoonation]

Can we get a list of these "high crimes and misdemeanors"?

You may want to forward it to Mueller since he was unable to find them even with his $30 million dollar budget, no time limit, no scope limit, FBI predawn SWAT raids, altered 302s and transcripts, hundreds of witness interviews, millions of pages of turned over documents, and cover from a complicit media.

Obstruction of Justice into investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election.  

You know, the thing 1000+ prosecutors said he would be criminally indicted for if he wasn’t president?

 

[Snorkelson]

Russia stole material, offered it up to trump, met with jr, released the material, trump campaign gave them voter info, Russian company dumping millions into Kentucky (McConnell’s state). McConnell blocking election security legislation, 2020 around the corner. 

Its all just coincidence I guess. 

 

[Opie]

The "witnesses" were just hilarious yesterday.

I swear to god....I really thought that it was a CNN panel gathering.

Seriously though...when IS Rachel Maddow scheduled to appear or has MSNBC even been invited to participate in this forum?