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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (5 Viewers)

SaintsInDome2006 said:
Let me ask you something: let's say everything you think and feel about the dossier is proved true. - What specific indictment, conviction, or even allegation in the Mueller report do you think would be reversed, overturned, or discredited?
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Everything about the dossier was fake. The Barr is open now thankfully and I can’t wait until he gets to the bottom of it.

 
Widbil83 said:
Everything about the dossier was fake. The Barr is open now thankfully and I can’t wait until he gets to the bottom of it.
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I'm not giving you or anyone a hard time, I'm just trying to understand what you think this affects. You don't see any single indictment, conviction or claim from the Mueller report affected by this then?

I'm just saying you crack the dossier wide open like a coconut - hey I want to know who Sources A-E are, just as an example - and no one indicted and no claim from the OSC will be changed, right?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I'm not giving you or anyone a hard time, I'm just trying to understand what you think this affects. You don't see any single indictment, conviction or claim from the Mueller report affected by this then?

I'm just saying you crack the dossier wide open like a coconut - hey I want to know who Sources A-E are, just as an example - and no one indicted and no claim from the OSC will be changed, right?
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This is the weird part. I think - and I think most people think - if the FBI did something wrong in its investigation - great, punish them. I'm always for strict police oversight.

But - as you said - that doesn't change what's in the Mueller report. F

 
Widbil83 said:
Everything about the dossier was fake. The Barr is open now thankfully and I can’t wait until he gets to the bottom of it.
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Umm...what?  

Barr getting to the bottom of what?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
It's the late trumpeting of prior reported MSM information. AP reported Manafort's lawyers saying it in court, that's in public and the transcript was even published.

Solomon says it 4 months later - without saying where he got the info - Eureka, deep state discovered.
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No one is trumpeting the IRI stuff.  No one did that.  

In a story about Kilimnik, Solomon mentions that Kilimnik worked with IRI.  This is not the new information being "trumpeted".  It is common practice in news items to restate information that gives context on the subject of the article.

The new information here is that Kilimnik was reportedly an informant to the state department about Russia/Ukrainian issues.  Assuming it's true, the most apparent reason this was concealed was because it painted a darker picture to suit the prosecutor narrative.  It was never explained how exactly he had "ties to Russian intelligence" or "maintained those ties in 2016". 

Did he ask a former colleague how their kids were doing?  Was it something more troubling than that?  Nobody knows- Mueller won't testify about it and refused to ever explain the connection.  Another reason to stop pretending the report is fully truthful, and written by unbiased individuals.  

 
Clayton Gray said:
Calling people trolls just because you don't agree with what they are saying still isn't allowed.
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Funny, I got a TO for calling Trump and his supporters traitors.  Silly but whatever.  Just use my @krista4alias. Now I meant in Congress, not posters here so maybe that's why. He has openly violated his Oath of Office numerous times. He has said on several occasions he believes Putin over the US Intelligence Agencies. I would think that would make him treasonous but would would like to hear from all of the people here much smarter than me.

Anyhow, noticed today that the mod who gave me a month off put "go trolling somewhere else".  :lmao: Weird times we are in GB. 

 
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Sheriff Bart said:
Funny, I got a TO for calling Trump and his supporters traitors.  Silly but whatever.  Just use my @krista4alias. Now I meant in Congress, not posters here so maybe that's why. He has openly violated his Oath of Office numerous times. He has said on several occasions he believes Putin over the US Intelligence Agencies. I would think that would make him treasonous but would would like to hear from all of the people here much smarter than me.

Anyhow, noticed today that the mod who gave me a month off put "go trolling somewhere else".  :lmao: Weird times we are in GB. 
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No self awareness at all.

 
ren hoek said:
No one is trumpeting the IRI stuff.  No one did that.  

In a story about Kilimnik, Solomon mentions that Kilimnik worked with IRI.  This is not the new information being "trumpeted".  It is common practice in news items to restate information that gives context on the subject of the article.

The new information here is that Kilimnik was reportedly an informant to the state department about Russia/Ukrainian issues.  Assuming it's true, the most apparent reason this was concealed was because it painted a darker picture to suit the prosecutor narrative.  It was never explained how exactly he had "ties to Russian intelligence" or "maintained those ties in 2016". 

Did he ask a former colleague how their kids were doing?  Was it something more troubling than that?  Nobody knows- Mueller won't testify about it and refused to ever explain the connection.  Another reason to stop pretending the report is fully truthful, and written by unbiased individuals.  
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So what are you implying?  He was an informant for the department - so what?  Connect the dots for me please.  Why should I care?

 
Sheriff Bart said:
Funny, I got a TO for calling Trump and his supporters traitors.  Silly but whatever.  Just use my @krista4alias. Now I meant in Congress, not posters here so maybe that's why. He has openly violated his Oath of Office numerous times. He has said on several occasions he believes Putin over the US Intelligence Agencies. I would think that would make him treasonous but would would like to hear from all of the people here much smarter than me.

Anyhow, noticed today that the mod who gave me a month off put "go trolling somewhere else".  :lmao: Weird times we are in GB. 
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We have national leadership that has clearly shown authoritarian desires. And an entire party that has cow-towed and fallen in line to protect, at ever step, this authoritarian leader, his approach and his actions.

This same group of people and their supporters have bludgeoned truth and objective reality to such a point that clear, fact based truths are fake news, and outlandish lies must be accepted as, at the least, true objective possibilities if not actual reality.

Falling prey to this post-truth world, sadly, are communities such as this. Where we are not allowed to call things as they truly are - be it clear trolling behavior (not simply a different viewpoint or opinion, but purposefully antagonistic lies like staying ad nauseam that we all should take Barr at his word since he has proven himself to only put forth unfettered truth and never would distort the words nor intent of Mueller) or when we call into question the alliance and allegiance of another poster who so clearly pushes Russian propaganda at literally every turn to the extent that I can’t honestly recall ONE instance of this poster putting forth any fact or argument that would call into question then Russians and/or undercut the Russians position. Every single post is supportive of Russia and those who work toward their means without one strike against that goal - yet we get castigated for suggesting that at best this behavior is not only furthering the aims of our greatest historic international adversary, but is in such lockstep as to appear to be a collaborator to that end. 

We can not be truthful about what we feel are the underpinnings of those who support either the greatest national threat to our Democracy (even if it helps their IRAs), nor those who appear 100% aligned with foreign adversaries.

Yet, the purveyors of post truth doctrine are allowed to posit and promote not only outright lies, but to do so while purposefully antagonizing (apparently trolling) and looking to get a rise from others.

It makes you wonder why bother participating in such a forum, when the truth is not permitted; when we are unable to adequately call into question the underlying rationale and motivations of what many of not most of us see as legitimate threats to our nation’s well being and democracy itself.

for some of us, there is no wonder left, and so we have left. Those who sought to destroy truthful discourse because such truths hurt their particular cause have won the battle here. 

So other than occasional notes of sadness such as this, there is no point in engaging in meaningful discourse on these essential issues in this forum. And why bother participating on a forum that has bent to the wishes of those who desire a post-truth world.

It should, however, be known that these notes are layered with the hope that those who control moderation here might recognize that they have fallen into the trap set by national and foreign threats to freedom, and our democratic norms and institutions, and as such, reset the discourse to again allow fair, if uncomfortable, truths to be told.

Until then, those who sought and seek to destroy truth to promote their propaganda  as the new reality continue to win, at the expense of everything I once though this nation stood for. And with it, a casualty has become one of the communities I used to hold most dear - because truth can no longer exist here. And until it does, what use does such a forum have?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
It's the late trumpeting of prior reported MSM information. AP reported Manafort's lawyers saying it in court, that's in public and the transcript was even published.

Solomon says it 4 months later - without saying where he got the info - Eureka, deep state discovered.
Click to expand...
Manfort’s lawyers making claims in court is one thing, but Solomon reporting it in The Hill iends the claim much more credibility as fact, and if this is fact, was does that say about the veracity of the Mueller Report? This is a very big deal.

 
moleculo said:
So what are you implying?  He was an informant for the department - so what?  Connect the dots for me please.  Why should I care?
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If he was an informant, a literal US asset not just to McCain's IRI and Manafort's Ukraine/EU initiative but to the Obama administration as well, it undercuts the idea that he was a Russian spy.  It places him much closer to the West than it ever did with Russia.  The big picture was always much more complicated than the childish, cartoonlike collusion narrative.  

 
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ren hoek said:
If he was an informant, a literal US asset not just to McCain's IRI and Manafort's Ukraine/EU initiative but to the Obama administration as well, it undercuts the idea that he was a Russian spy.  It places him much closer to the West than it ever did with Russia.  The big picture was always much more complicated than the childish, cartoonlike collusion narrative.  
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So because he is an informant for the State Department, he cannot be a Russian asset?  I'm not sure it works like that.

 
sho nuff said:
A second posting of a Solomon oped. :lmao:
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:thumbup: Yep, truth hurts. 

John Solomon is an award-winning investigative journalist whose work over the years has exposed U.S. and FBI intelligence failures before the Sept. 11 attacks, federal scientists’ misuse of foster children and veterans in drug experiments, and numerous cases of political corruption. He serves as an investigative columnist and executive vice president for video at The Hill. Follow him on Twitter @jsolomonReports.

 
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Rove! said:
Manfort’s lawyers making claims in court is one thing, but Solomon reporting it in The Hill iends the claim much more credibility as fact, and if this is fact, was does that say about the veracity of the Mueller Report? This is a very big deal.
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Sorry, why is this? Isn’t he just getting it from Manafort? Or it’s in the Mueller report, either redacted or not.

 
It's unclear if it's merely coincidence that the April 17 court order resolving the case came one day before the Justice Department released a redacted version of the Mueller report to the public.

While the stand-off pressed on from winter into spring, case had become one of the most closely watched of the Mueller investigation. News organizations had revealed the case appeared to relate to Mueller last fall, and courts took extra steps to keep the attorneys and the company's name secret as it appealed its contempt ruling.

The company had pointed to the fact that a foreign government owns it as one reason to resist the subpoena before appeals courts. That argument didn't work.

CNN had named the law firm of the attorneys involved, Alston & Bird, in January, prompting Howell to order even more secrecy in the case, according to the newly unsealed documents.

The company's name, the country that owns it and its area of business is still unknown.

But one reference the company made raises the possibility it could involve a foreign country's central bank.

"The US Government would rightly be outraged if a foreign country in litigation argued that Jerome Powell or Mike Pompeo had lied about the existence of documents," defense attorneys wrote in a footnote, referencing the US secretary of state and the chairman of the Federal Reserve.

More on the mystery company investigation

Many of the documents released by the court Friday have extensive redactions -- with entire pages blocked out in some of the records.

Yet prosecutors revealed that the information it needed from the company is part of an investigation that started before Mueller and continues on.

The investigation "is very much a live issue that requires, I think, a great deal of resources, time, and attention by the Government, which is why we believe the subpoena is in fact still a live controversy that requires contempt because it goes to the core of the question of this investigation," prosecutor Zia Faruqui said at a sealed hearing in late March, before Howell decided to end the dispute, according to the new records.

When Mueller ended his work, he transferred the investigation to the DC US Attorney's Office, where Faruqui works.

Agents continued to work on it with a plan to "go forward with our investigative steps," Faruqui said. "We are in constant communication with the special counsel's office."

Faruqui also called the Mueller investigation a "separate focused matter."

The issues in the investigation, Faruqui said in March, "have not nor are in any way close to being resolved."
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The battle against the mystery company somewhere vs someone for some purposes continues on, but it seems almost certain it is a bank now.

 
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Koya said:
We have national leadership that has clearly shown authoritarian desires. And an entire party that has cow-towed and fallen in line to protect, at ever step, this authoritarian leader, his approach and his actions.

This same group of people and their supporters have bludgeoned truth and objective reality to such a point that clear, fact based truths are fake news, and outlandish lies must be accepted as, at the least, true objective possibilities if not actual reality.

Falling prey to this post-truth world, sadly, are communities such as this. Where we are not allowed to call things as they truly are - be it clear trolling behavior (not simply a different viewpoint or opinion, but purposefully antagonistic lies like staying ad nauseam that we all should take Barr at his word since he has proven himself to only put forth unfettered truth and never would distort the words nor intent of Mueller) or when we call into question the alliance and allegiance of another poster who so clearly pushes Russian propaganda at literally every turn to the extent that I can’t honestly recall ONE instance of this poster putting forth any fact or argument that would call into question then Russians and/or undercut the Russians position. Every single post is supportive of Russia and those who work toward their means without one strike against that goal - yet we get castigated for suggesting that at best this behavior is not only furthering the aims of our greatest historic international adversary, but is in such lockstep as to appear to be a collaborator to that end. 

We can not be truthful about what we feel are the underpinnings of those who support either the greatest national threat to our Democracy (even if it helps their IRAs), nor those who appear 100% aligned with foreign adversaries.

Yet, the purveyors of post truth doctrine are allowed to posit and promote not only outright lies, but to do so while purposefully antagonizing (apparently trolling) and looking to get a rise from others.

It makes you wonder why bother participating in such a forum, when the truth is not permitted; when we are unable to adequately call into question the underlying rationale and motivations of what many of not most of us see as legitimate threats to our nation’s well being and democracy itself.

for some of us, there is no wonder left, and so we have left. Those who sought to destroy truthful discourse because such truths hurt their particular cause have won the battle here. 

So other than occasional notes of sadness such as this, there is no point in engaging in meaningful discourse on these essential issues in this forum. And why bother participating on a forum that has bent to the wishes of those who desire a post-truth world.

It should, however, be known that these notes are layered with the hope that those who control moderation here might recognize that they have fallen into the trap set by national and foreign threats to freedom, and our democratic norms and institutions, and as such, reset the discourse to again allow fair, if uncomfortable, truths to be told.

Until then, those who sought and seek to destroy truth to promote their propaganda  as the new reality continue to win, at the expense of everything I once though this nation stood for. And with it, a casualty has become one of the communities I used to hold most dear - because truth can no longer exist here. And until it does, what use does such a forum have?
Click to expand...
Sad that I have only one like to give this post.

 
Koya said:
We have national leadership that has clearly shown authoritarian desires. And an entire party that has cow-towed and fallen in line to protect, at ever step, this authoritarian leader, his approach and his actions.

This same group of people and their supporters have bludgeoned truth and objective reality to such a point that clear, fact based truths are fake news, and outlandish lies must be accepted as, at the least, true objective possibilities if not actual reality.

Falling prey to this post-truth world, sadly, are communities such as this. Where we are not allowed to call things as they truly are - be it clear trolling behavior (not simply a different viewpoint or opinion, but purposefully antagonistic lies like staying ad nauseam that we all should take Barr at his word since he has proven himself to only put forth unfettered truth and never would distort the words nor intent of Mueller) or when we call into question the alliance and allegiance of another poster who so clearly pushes Russian propaganda at literally every turn to the extent that I can’t honestly recall ONE instance of this poster putting forth any fact or argument that would call into question then Russians and/or undercut the Russians position. Every single post is supportive of Russia and those who work toward their means without one strike against that goal - yet we get castigated for suggesting that at best this behavior is not only furthering the aims of our greatest historic international adversary, but is in such lockstep as to appear to be a collaborator to that end. 

We can not be truthful about what we feel are the underpinnings of those who support either the greatest national threat to our Democracy (even if it helps their IRAs), nor those who appear 100% aligned with foreign adversaries.

Yet, the purveyors of post truth doctrine are allowed to posit and promote not only outright lies, but to do so while purposefully antagonizing (apparently trolling) and looking to get a rise from others.

It makes you wonder why bother participating in such a forum, when the truth is not permitted; when we are unable to adequately call into question the underlying rationale and motivations of what many of not most of us see as legitimate threats to our nation’s well being and democracy itself.

for some of us, there is no wonder left, and so we have left. Those who sought to destroy truthful discourse because such truths hurt their particular cause have won the battle here. 

So other than occasional notes of sadness such as this, there is no point in engaging in meaningful discourse on these essential issues in this forum. And why bother participating on a forum that has bent to the wishes of those who desire a post-truth world.

It should, however, be known that these notes are layered with the hope that those who control moderation here might recognize that they have fallen into the trap set by national and foreign threats to freedom, and our democratic norms and institutions, and as such, reset the discourse to again allow fair, if uncomfortable, truths to be told.

Until then, those who sought and seek to destroy truth to promote their propaganda  as the new reality continue to win, at the expense of everything I once though this nation stood for. And with it, a casualty has become one of the communities I used to hold most dear - because truth can no longer exist here. And until it does, what use does such a forum have?
Click to expand...
:tinfoilhat:

 
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