The San Antonio Raiders (1 Viewer)

[The Kansas Comet]

The Vikings were going to move there too about 10 years ago. How's the saying go?

Fool me once...

Yeah. I remember when teams like Edmonton and Pittsburgh kept saying they were going to move to Houston when I lived there. I fell for it every time.

But, again, this is more of a "What if..." question. Similar to the one I had about the A's moving to Philadelphia. Although, that one didn't turn out like I planned, either.

What I'd be interested to see is how well the Raiders convert the Cowboy fans in SA. Most all football families in SA have been Dallas fans for generations.

The Saints did very well that one season they played in the Alamodome after Katrina, I think the Raiders too would be a big draw, just curious to see how fandom went. Would they try to keep the black hole and encourage fans to dress like Legion of Doom to keep that tradition going or would it fade away. I'd miss that.

San Antonio would embrace the whole Raider attitude, no doubt. Play the evil empire stigma against the "holy" blue star and the antiseptic Texans persona. I can see where it would work well.

Plus many of the locals already have silver and black gear from being Spurs fans.

 

[comfortably numb]

They would move to London before San Antonio

 

[TheIronSheik]

They would move to London before San Antonio

Pfft. London doesn't even rank in the top 50 biggest US cities.

 

[Gr00vus]

We don't want you in L.A.

 

[timschochet]

The Raiders belong in Irwindale.

 

[Chadstroma]

I don't see it happening. But to be fair, I may be blinded by my own prejudices. That being said, here is my thinking...

1) I still see the greater L.A. area being the smart move. There has been a lot of movement on prepping for a team back in L.A. and the Raiders still have a huge fanbase there not to mention being the second biggest market in the country which this time around they would own to themselves and not be stuck in another crappy stadium like last time.

2) What I have read, does not feel more to me than doing due diligence. If you have a city coming to you to say hey- we got this great deal for you. You listen. It does not mean you go. Plus, while you listen it could help strengthen your position elsewhere.

3) Let's say it is a move they want to do- I don't see them getting the votes. The Cowboys and Texans will be against it and I am sure they could rally another 5 teams to side with them.

This always confuses me. Why would they care? Are they stealing fans that would normally pay for their tickets? San Antonio is not THAT close to these cities.

I'd guess most people in SA are already fans of one of those two teams.

And team revenues are impacted by more than just ticket sales.

 

[roadkill1292]

This is a time for cities around the nation to stand firm and collude not to bid against each other for a franchise. Let those rich bastards build their own damn stadiums.

 

[Chadstroma]

I don't see it happening. But to be fair, I may be blinded by my own prejudices. That being said, here is my thinking...

1) I still see the greater L.A. area being the smart move. There has been a lot of movement on prepping for a team back in L.A. and the Raiders still have a huge fanbase there not to mention being the second biggest market in the country which this time around they would own to themselves and not be stuck in another crappy stadium like last time.

2) What I have read, does not feel more to me than doing due diligence. If you have a city coming to you to say hey- we got this great deal for you. You listen. It does not mean you go. Plus, while you listen it could help strengthen your position elsewhere.

3) Let's say it is a move they want to do- I don't see them getting the votes. The Cowboys and Texans will be against it and I am sure they could rally another 5 teams to side with them.

This always confuses me. Why would they care? Are they stealing fans that would normally pay for their tickets? San Antonio is not THAT close to these cities.

I'd guess most people in SA are already fans of one of those two teams.

This is the case. About 70% Cowboy, 20% Texan, 10% other. Cowboys used to host their camp here.

This is all hard to take seriously, as it has become an annual occurrence for rumors about someone (usually Red McCombs) moving an NFL team here. I'll believe it when I see it.

ETA - would need a new stadium or a drastic renovation project in the Alamodome.

The loose plan as I have read it would be to do a quick renovation to the Alamodome as a temporary home before a new stadium is built.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Please move out of here.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I think it would oversaturate the San Antonio market. Certain cities can only handle 1 sports team, like SA & OK City. They all act like they want the teams, but will likely have attendance issues with 1 of the teams.

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

SA is the 7th largest city in the US. I'm not sure they'd have a problem drawing people.

25th largest MSA, which is what matters more.

What is MSA?

Metro statistical area

Why would that matter more than population?

Really? We just went through all of this in your hypothetical what if the A's moved to philadelphia.

So you have some fetish for wondering about moving teams out of Oakland, it seems.

 

[Eephus]

I think it would oversaturate the San Antonio market. Certain cities can only handle 1 sports team, like SA & OK City. They all act like they want the teams, but will likely have attendance issues with 1 of the teams.

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

SA is the 7th largest city in the US. I'm not sure they'd have a problem drawing people.

25th largest MSA, which is what matters more.

What is MSA?

Metro statistical area

Why would that matter more than population?

Really? We just went through all of this in your hypothetical what if the A's moved to philadelphia.

So you have some fetish for wondering about moving teams out of Oakland, it seems.

Not even fetishists like the Oakland Coliseum

 

[TheIronSheik]

Just trying to pass some time at work. My bad.

 

[TenTimes]

This is a time for cities around the nation to stand firm and collude not to bid against each other for a franchise. Let those rich bastards build their own damn stadiums.

Chris Hansen and his group wanted to build their own Sonics arena as well as renovate Key Arena as a temporary home. The owners shot him down and let the city of Sacramento pay for a new one. I'm all for owners buying their own stadiums, but how do we get around this situation?

I'm bored at work so if anyone wants to educate me- why do cities fund stadium/arena construction? Do they eventually recoup the costs, and if so, how?

 

[dickey moe]

Can they get Kawhi to play tight end?

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

I would be all for it but only if they took all of the California Raider fans with them.

 

[dgreen]

This is a time for cities around the nation to stand firm and collude not to bid against each other for a franchise. Let those rich bastards build their own damn stadiums.

Chris Hansen and his group wanted to build their own Sonics arena as well as renovate Key Arena as a temporary home. The owners shot him down and let the city of Sacramento pay for a new one. I'm all for owners buying their own stadiums, but how do we get around this situation?

I'm bored at work so if anyone wants to educate me- why do cities fund stadium/arena construction? Do they eventually recoup the costs, and if so, how?

Here's an opinion.

 

[dgreen]

Just trying to pass some time at work. My bad.

Golden State Warriors to Fargo, ND thread in a couple weeks?

 

[Leroy Hoard]

They would move to London before San Antonio

Pfft. London doesn't even rank in the top 50 biggest US cities.

You have to go to Canada for that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_100_largest_municipalities_in_Canada_by_population

 

[roadkill1292]

This is a time for cities around the nation to stand firm and collude not to bid against each other for a franchise. Let those rich bastards build their own damn stadiums.

Chris Hansen and his group wanted to build their own Sonics arena as well as renovate Key Arena as a temporary home. The owners shot him down and let the city of Sacramento pay for a new one. I'm all for owners buying their own stadiums, but how do we get around this situation?

I'm bored at work so if anyone wants to educate me- why do cities fund stadium/arena construction? Do they eventually recoup the costs, and if so, how?

Here's an opinion.

All my friends agree with that opinion. It's the "happiness" factor that they think is a good use of public funds.

I think if cities are going to do that, though, then they should also own the team.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Just trying to pass some time at work. My bad.

Golden State Warriors to Fargo, ND thread in a couple weeks?

I'm just going off of what's in the news.

 

[Phil Elliott]

According to this story...Raiders current stadium contract expires after next season. Would need to double the number of suites of the Alamodome to 100 and then try to build a new stadium in a few years. Henry Cisneros' (ex-mayor of SA and pushed for building Alamodome) son-in-law, Brad Badger works for the Raiders. Spurs owner, Peter Holt and Red McCombs were in some of the discussions and expressed interest in investing in team ownership. (McCombs owned the Vikings when Vikings considered moving to SA).

(Mark) "Davis told San Antonio civic and business leaders he isn't seeking a “Jerry Jones-type facility” and prefers “a small, intimate” stadium that he can place “a statue of his father in front of,” a source said.,,

..."Finally, tired of being used as leverage for teams to gain better deals in their markets, Wolff and other leaders decided after the Marlins left that they would only negotiate with teams that had the relocation blessing of their respective leagues."

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/pro-sports/article/Oakland-Raiders-owner-in-talks-with-SA-to-5654812.php

 

[TenTimes]

This is a time for cities around the nation to stand firm and collude not to bid against each other for a franchise. Let those rich bastards build their own damn stadiums.

Chris Hansen and his group wanted to build their own Sonics arena as well as renovate Key Arena as a temporary home. The owners shot him down and let the city of Sacramento pay for a new one. I'm all for owners buying their own stadiums, but how do we get around this situation?

I'm bored at work so if anyone wants to educate me- why do cities fund stadium/arena construction? Do they eventually recoup the costs, and if so, how?

Here's an opinion.

All my friends agree with that opinion. It's the "happiness" factor that they think is a good use of public funds.

I think if cities are going to do that, though, then they should also own the team.

Dammit, knew I should have listened to dad and majored in cultural amenities.

 

[B Maverick]

Heard on Jay Mohr Sports today they should change the team name from Raiders to....

San Antonio Banderas!!!

buh dum dum.....

 

[TheIronSheik]

San Antonio Redskins.

 

[Quez]

Here is a pretty cool map showing population within the 75mile buffers of the NFL stadiums. This is the distance the NFL uses for blackouts. The larger the circle the greater the number of people within the 75mile buffer.

http://www.arcgis.com/home/item.html?id=67c7abb0738d4d549e221abe667ffac3

 

[TenTimes]

San Antonio Refried Beans

 

[Don Quixote]

Any way they can move to Florence, Italy, so they can be the Tuscan Raiders?

 

[Raider Nation]

Pointless hypothetical. Won't happen.

 

[The Z Machine]

More likely, Tucson Raiders.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Pointless hypothetical. Won't happen.

Really pulling for Oakland, but something has to give on the stadium front, right?

 

[Raider Nation]

Pointless hypothetical. Won't happen.

Really pulling for Oakland, but something has to give on the stadium front, right?

These things have a way of working themselves out before anything drastic happens. San Antonio is a pipe dream. That is Cowboys territory and Jerruh carries a big stick in the league.

 

[bentley]

Heard on Jay Mohr Sports today they should change the team name from Raiders to....

San Antonio Banderas!!!

buh dum dum.....

Bandera is a small town outside of San Antonio. Is it something else?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

You probably couldn't have two more diametrically opposed professional sports franchises inhabiting the same city.

 

[jon_mx]

Pointless hypothetical. Won't happen.

New here?

 

[Premier]

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

This is wrong. Tampa could support the Rays just fine. If they ever play there.

 

[Mister CIA]

Heard on Jay Mohr Sports today they should change the team name from Raiders to....

San Antonio Banderas!!!

buh dum dum.....

Bandera is a small town outside of San Antonio. Is it something else?

It's a breeding ground for bank robbers.

 

[massraider]

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

This is wrong. Tampa could support the Rays just fine. If they ever play there.

Everyone in Florida are/were already fans of teams before baseball arrived. Tampa can support a ballclub. So can Miami.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Any way they can move to Florence, Italy, so they can be the Tuscan Raiders?

I bet they'd run the I-formation a lot.

 

[Quez]

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

This is wrong. Tampa could support the Rays just fine. If they ever play there.

What is "just fine"? I doubt they would have averaged a much higher attendance this year if they were in Tampa (maybe 4k more). They could even have a lower attendance if the team was one of the worst in the league like they were their first decade.

The Bucs stadium has seemed pretty empty for the last few years. Entire sections empty. There are only 8 Bucs home games, and NFL is much more popular than football. If we have trouble filling up the Bucs stadium then I don't see how we are going to fill up a baseball stadium for 80 games a year.

 

[Quez]

I think it would oversaturate the San Antonio market. Certain cities can only handle 1 sports team, like SA & OK City. They all act like they want the teams, but will likely have attendance issues with 1 of the teams.

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

Having formerly lived in the Seattle region I can tell you that it can easily support basketball and would be one of the highest attendance of the league. Their MLS attendance rivals that of Euro clubs. They feverishly love their sports teams.

Now it's more like they love their football/soccer. Baseball attendance is horrible despite them finally being in contention this season, averaging about 50% capacity at the stadium. Tampa and Cleveland are lower.

The SF Giants on the other hand, Seattle needs to copy whatever they are doing. Leading the league with 99.3% capacity on the season.

People consider Seattle a great sports town because their football team has been good for a few years, and its really loud. If it was a great sports town the NBA wouldn't of moved out.

The fact of the matter is that sports teams are competing with each other, and other things (golf courses, fishing tackle, Disney, etc) for the peoples entertainment dollar. There is only so much money a certain population can spend on entertainment.

For example, if a local Ford dealership has budgeted for 80k a year in sports tickets/ suites. They aren't just going to be able to raise the budget to 100k if the city lands another sports team.

 

[Tom Servo]

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

This is wrong. Tampa could support the Rays just fine. If they ever play there.

What is "just fine"? I doubt they would have averaged a much higher attendance this year if they were in Tampa (maybe 4k more). They could even have a lower attendance if the team was one of the worst in the league like they were their first decade.

The Bucs stadium has seemed pretty empty for the last few years. Entire sections empty. There are only 8 Bucs home games, and NFL is much more popular than football. If we have trouble filling up the Bucs stadium then I don't see how we are going to fill up a baseball stadium for 80 games a year.

I would think that giant mausoleum the Rays call a home has something to do with it too.

 

[Gr00vus]

I think it would oversaturate the San Antonio market. Certain cities can only handle 1 sports team, like SA & OK City. They all act like they want the teams, but will likely have attendance issues with 1 of the teams.

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

Having formerly lived in the Seattle region I can tell you that it can easily support basketball and would be one of the highest attendance of the league. Their MLS attendance rivals that of Euro clubs. They feverishly love their sports teams.

Now it's more like they love their football/soccer. Baseball attendance is horrible despite them finally being in contention this season, averaging about 50% capacity at the stadium. Tampa and Cleveland are lower.

The SF Giants on the other hand, Seattle needs to copy whatever they are doing. Leading the league with 99.3% capacity on the season.

People consider Seattle a great sports town because their football team has been good for a few years, and its really loud. If it was a great sports town the NBA wouldn't of moved out.

The fact of the matter is that sports teams are competing with each other, and other things (golf courses, fishing tackle, Disney, etc) for the peoples entertainment dollar. There is only so much money a certain population can spend on entertainment.

For example, if a local Ford dealership has budgeted for 80k a year in sports tickets/ suites. They aren't just going to be able to raise the budget to 100k if the city lands another sports team.

You should really check into the story of how that went down before you say stuff like this. The Sonics fans (and there were plenty of them) got royally screwed by the NBA/new owners.

The Mariners on the other hand...

 

[TenTimes]

Honestly I don't know if Seattle could support basketball, but I think they potentially could. I moved up here right around the time the Sonics were getting yanked. I think their "failure" or lack of support was due to an outdated arena in an outdated part of downtown which is hard to get in to, park, and get out of.

The previous owner couldn't get $500mill from the city/county to renovate or build a new arena, so he sold to Clay Bennett, who also failed to get that money and in turn moved. (I read on wiki that OKC's arena cost $89.2 mill so I don't know why they needed five times as much money in Seattle, but I'm sure there's a good reason.)

Chris Hansen got Seattle/King county to offer up $200mill towards renovations/new arena for the Sacramento Kings after months of proposals, rallies, etc, so I guess that's the extent that the government can support basketball.

The proposal Hansen had for the new Sonics arena was going to work. I think basketball would thrive in Seattle given a new arena closer in downtown to where the baseball and football fields are. Hockey would do well too, and if/when Seattle gets the NBA back, that won't be too far behind.

 

[Quez]

I'm sure if the Sonic owners were making money hand over fist from the 12th man they wouldn't of left.

 

[Gr00vus]

I'm sure if the Sonic owners were making money hand over fist from the 12th man they wouldn't of left.

The new owner wanted to move the team to OKC because that's where he was from - it had little to do with attendance in Seattle. He used the stadium finance glitch to screw over the Sonic fans.

 

[DocHolliday]

The Raiders have to do something. They cannot continue in that crappy stadium. Moving to LA makes the most sense. That is a huge market and it is filled with many Raider fans alread.

SA seems like a bad idea. It would be more difficult than moving to LA.

 

[culdeus]

If you think the Coliseum is bad then you obviously haven't seen the Alamodome.

I agree they would have to put it out in New Braunfels or even San Marcos to draw from both Austin and SA.

 

[TenTimes]

I'm sure if the Sonic owners were making money hand over fist from the 12th man they wouldn't of left.

Can we at least agree that if Key Arena were renovated or a new Sonics arena built in a more desirable location, that the Thunder would be making more money in Seattle as the Sonics than they are in OKC?

 

[jonessed]

I don't think Oakland has the ability to push a new stadium through. They have serious financial issues and the cost in Oakland would be astronomical.

There is a real possibility they move.

 

[Mister CIA]

If you think the Coliseum is bad then you obviously haven't seen the Alamodome.

I agree they would have to put it out in New Braunfels or even San Marcos to draw from both Austin and SA.

Who would fund a stadium in New Braunfels or San Marcos?

Put a team in SA and someone will build a fleet of party buses to shuttle Austin residents to the games. Who would not want to experience the gameday round-trip ride on Fred Smoot Trailways?