The Trent Richardson Thread (3 Viewers)

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Herron is where my money is. I'm not expecting much but he's better Richardson

give it a few weeks

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Herron was a 6th round pick who failed to make an impact in a mediocre Bengals backfield that only featured BJGE and Bernard Scott at the time. In fact, he didn't even make the initial 53 man roster. He was signed in the middle of the season last year. Why was he available on the scrap heap? Because nobody else wanted him. He was a practice squad player. You don't have to believe that Trent Richardson is great to think he's better than Dan Herron. Therein lies the problem. Even if I bought the idea that Trent Richardson has performed horribly this preseason (which I don't), I'd still have to buy the idea that Herron is capable of doing better (which I don't).

Bradshaw was drafted by the New York Giants in the seventh round with the 250th overall pick.

Green-Ellis was signed by the Patriots as an undrafted free agent on May 1, 2008. He was waived by the team on August 30, 2008, and signed to the team's practice squad on September 1,

He was a practice squad player.

Running back Priest Holmes was an undrafted free agent pickup of the Baltimore Ravens' in 1997.

Running back Arian Foster was an undrafted free agency pickup by the Houston Texans in 2009

all these guys are better than richardson and nobody else wanted them

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I respect EBF's posts, but his philosophy that starters are starters because they are not backups and backups are backups because they are not starters is alien to me.

 

[monk]

Herron is where my money is. I'm not expecting much but he's better Richardson

[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]As they say, "The backup quarterback is always the most popular player on the team."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]Who says this? And Why? Because it's not true and it doesn't make much sense ... I cant name the backup QBs on a lot of teams[/SIZE]

 

[EBF]

I think a lot of the frustration in this thread is people who take the draft position and talent and then fail to incorporate more recent (and more relevant) information into account. Like actual NFL play. He looks bad. His numbers are bad.

I'd agree that his numbers are bad, but the idea that he looks bad is more open for debate. That's probably the main source of disagreement at this point. Obviously his stats suck. They sucked all last year and they've sucked all preseason. Is that because he sucks or because he hasn't been put in a position to succeed? I think answering that question is the key to assessing his value. He certainly doesn't look like he's going to be a Tomlinson/Peterson level one man wrecking crew. At the same time, I haven't seen a lot of good blocking for him when I've watched the Colts play. I think he has been put in a position to fail by his blocking and playcalling. So I'm not really convinced that he isn't just a good back mired in a bad context (i.e. Thomas Jones in Arizona, Lynch at times in Buffalo).

As for your point about the NFL being an inefficient market, it is but only to an extent. First rounders are exponentially more likely to succeed than UDFAs, even if you can think of exceptions on both sides. Where a player was picked becomes less relevant the longer he plays, but it's not irrelevant. Guys like Reggie Bush, Thomas Jones, Knowshon Moreno, and recently Mark Ingram went through long dry patches where you would've abandoned all optimism if you didn't consider that at one point in time they showed the talent necessary to convince people that they were top NFL prospects and that this talent might still be present.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I think a lot of the frustration in this thread is people who take the draft position and talent and then fail to incorporate more recent (and more relevant) information into account. Like actual NFL play. He looks bad. His numbers are bad.

I'd agree that his numbers are bad, but the idea that he looks bad is more open for debate. That's probably the main source of disagreement at this point. Obviously his stats suck. They sucked all last year and they've sucked all preseason. Is that because he sucks ?

yes

so, you can evaluate an o-line that sux, and playcalling that sux, but richardson looks like a good rb to you?

 

[werdnoynek]

I think a lot of the frustration in this thread is people who take the draft position and talent and then fail to incorporate more recent (and more relevant) information into account. Like actual NFL play. He looks bad. His numbers are bad.

I'd agree that his numbers are bad, but the idea that he looks bad is more open for debate. That's probably the main source of disagreement at this point. Obviously his stats suck. They sucked all last year and they've sucked all preseason. Is that because he sucks ?

yes

so, you can evaluate an o-line that sux, and playcalling that sux, but richardson looks like a good rb to you?

It's always backhanded remarks and negativity with you it seems Larry. Do you ever add anything to a thread that isn't a bashfest of someone who's struggling or has struggled? I have a hard time recalling the last post I've seen of yours where you actually added anything with substance in this thread or any other one for that matter.

I'd say it's disappointing... but frankly it's not, I've come to expect it.

 

[cstu]

I think a lot of the frustration in this thread is people who take the draft position and talent and then fail to incorporate more recent (and more relevant) information into account. Like actual NFL play. He looks bad. His numbers are bad.

I'd agree that his numbers are bad, but the idea that he looks bad is more open for debate. That's probably the main source of disagreement at this point. Obviously his stats suck. They sucked all last year and they've sucked all preseason. Is that because he sucks or because he hasn't been put in a position to succeed? I think answering that question is the key to assessing his value. He certainly doesn't look like he's going to be a Tomlinson/Peterson level one man wrecking crew. At the same time, I don't see a lot of good blocking for him when I've watched the Colts play. I think he has been put in a position to fail by his blocking and playcalling. So I'm not really convinced that he isn't just a good back mired in a bad context (i.e. Thomas Jones in Arizona, Lynch at times in Buffalo).

As for your point about the NFL being an inefficient market, it is but only to an extent. First rounders are exponentially more likely to succeed than UDFAs, even if you can think of exceptions on both sides. Where a player was picked becomes less relevant the longer he plays, but it's not irrelevant. Guys like Reggie Bush, Thomas Jones, Knowshon Moreno, and recently Mark Ingram went through long dry patches where you would've abandoned all optimism if you didn't consider that at one point in time they showed the talent necessary to convince people that they were top NFL prospects and that this talent might still be present.

EBF, I usually agree with you but this is where we are seeing two different things. Richardson has an occasional good carry but even with poor blocking he should be making decisive cuts and using his power to break tackles. Instead, he's mostly tiptoeing around the LOS and dancing his way through traffic. His brute strength gets him a couple extra yards but his poor vision is leaving a lot of yards on the field.

I'm very interested to see how Herron does with the 1's tomorrow. Even though he's a mediocre talent he at least does the things I described.

 

[georg013]

I think a lot of the frustration in this thread is people who take the draft position and talent and then fail to incorporate more recent (and more relevant) information into account. Like actual NFL play. He looks bad. His numbers are bad.

I'd agree that his numbers are bad, but the idea that he looks bad is more open for debate. That's probably the main source of disagreement at this point. Obviously his stats suck. They sucked all last year and they've sucked all preseason. Is that because he sucks ?

yes

so, you can evaluate an o-line that sux, and playcalling that sux, but richardson looks like a good rb to you?

It's always backhanded remarks and negativity with you it seems Larry. Do you ever add anything to a thread that isn't a bashfest of someone who's struggling or has struggled? I have a hard time recalling the last post I've seen of yours where you actually added anything with substance in this thread or any other one for that matter.

I'd say it's disappointing... but frankly it's not, I've come to expect it.

In Larrys defense he does contribute quite a bit over in the idp section during the season with his snap breakdowns. Much thanks for that. Boredom sets in though and makes us post strange things. Once the regular season begins we wont need to generate our own drama and Koolaid can go back to busting through walls delivering sweetness to idp owners everywhere!

 

[Bronco Billy]

This blaming of the O line and play calling is getting tiresome. Forte ran behind an awful O line in a horrendous offense, didn't have a QB anywhere remotely close to being as talented as Luck (Kyle Orton plus some Rex Grossman for good measure, for reference) and he still managed to be productive. 1238 rushing yds and 1715 total yds plus 12 total TDs to be exact.

If Richardson is so incredibly talented as we keep hearing over and over, why can't he get something going on his own?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I think a lot of the frustration in this thread is people who take the draft position and talent and then fail to incorporate more recent (and more relevant) information into account. Like actual NFL play. He looks bad. His numbers are bad.

I'd agree that his numbers are bad, but the idea that he looks bad is more open for debate. That's probably the main source of disagreement at this point. Obviously his stats suck. They sucked all last year and they've sucked all preseason. Is that because he sucks ?

yes

so, you can evaluate an o-line that sux, and playcalling that sux, but richardson looks like a good rb to you?

It's always backhanded remarks and negativity with you it seems Larry. Do you ever add anything to a thread that isn't a bashfest of someone who's struggling or has struggled? I have a hard time recalling the last post I've seen of yours where you actually added anything with substance in this thread or any other one for that matter.

I'd say it's disappointing... but frankly it's not, I've come to expect it.

well, at least I keep my bashing and negativity on the players

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I think a lot of the frustration in this thread is people who take the draft position and talent and then fail to incorporate more recent (and more relevant) information into account. Like actual NFL play. He looks bad. His numbers are bad.

I'd agree that his numbers are bad, but the idea that he looks bad is more open for debate. That's probably the main source of disagreement at this point. Obviously his stats suck. They sucked all last year and they've sucked all preseason. Is that because he sucks or because he hasn't been put in a position to succeed? I think answering that question is the key to assessing his value. He certainly doesn't look like he's going to be a Tomlinson/Peterson level one man wrecking crew. At the same time, I don't see a lot of good blocking for him when I've watched the Colts play. I think he has been put in a position to fail by his blocking and playcalling. So I'm not really convinced that he isn't just a good back mired in a bad context (i.e. Thomas Jones in Arizona, Lynch at times in Buffalo).

As for your point about the NFL being an inefficient market, it is but only to an extent. First rounders are exponentially more likely to succeed than UDFAs, even if you can think of exceptions on both sides. Where a player was picked becomes less relevant the longer he plays, but it's not irrelevant. Guys like Reggie Bush, Thomas Jones, Knowshon Moreno, and recently Mark Ingram went through long dry patches where you would've abandoned all optimism if you didn't consider that at one point in time they showed the talent necessary to convince people that they were top NFL prospects and that this talent might still be present.

EBF, I usually agree with you but this is where we are seeing two different things. Richardson has an occasional good carry but even with poor blocking he should be making decisive cuts and using his power to break tackles. Instead, he's mostly tiptoeing around the LOS and dancing his way through traffic. His brute strength gets him a couple extra yards but his poor vision is leaving a lot of yards on the field.

I'm very interested to see how Herron does with the 1's tomorrow. Even though he's a mediocre talent he at least does the things I described.

how many 1's do you expect to see out there in week 4?

but if a guy looks good he looks good --- doesn't take a generational talent to run through a hole.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

This blaming of the O line and play calling is getting tiresome. Forte ran behind an awful O line in a horrendous offense, didn't have a QB anywhere remotely close to being as talented as Luck (Kyle Orton plus some Rex Grossman for good measure, for reference) and he still managed to be productive. 1238 rushing yds and 1715 total yds plus 12 total TDs to be exact.

If Richardson is so incredibly talented as we keep hearing over and over, why can't he get something going on his own?

What's truly amazing is the fact the the line evidently decided last year that they were just going to block well for every single RB on the team except Richardson. Either that, or Donald Brown is just that damn good I guess.

The excuses will get really interesting by about mid-season when Bradshaw is missing time and Richardson is on the bench / getting outplayed by a street FA like Dan Herron.

Some people just have a really, really hard time with "I was wrong."

 

[habsfan]

I'm not exactly sure as to what the question was that Pagano was answering but..

"I don't look at it that way," Pagano said. "I just know Boom has had a really good camp and a good preseason. He's made some nice runs. It's comforting knowing that you have a guy that not only excels on special teams, but you've got another guy in the backfield that can run and get yards for you when you need them."

He also said this earlier in the month..

"Boom's been practicing really well. He's had a great camp until this first preseason game so I'm not surprised at all that he played the way that he played," head coach Chuck Pagano told the team's official site. "We always talk about you play like you practice, and he's been doing great. He's been having a great camp and you could see the results tonight in what he did on the football field."

In my deeper 20-28 rounds redrafts I have no problem targeting Daniel "Boom" Herron.

I see the word "comforting" and I think, "He's 3rd on the depth chart"...

 

[Brewtown]

I just took him at pick 40 in a redraft as my RB2. He looked great running last week in the pre-season and is still very talented.

This forced me to take another RB in the early 6th as my 3rd: Ray Rice...

 

[DoubleG]

This blaming of the O line and play calling is getting tiresome. Forte ran behind an awful O line in a horrendous offense, didn't have a QB anywhere remotely close to being as talented as Luck (Kyle Orton plus some Rex Grossman for good measure, for reference) and he still managed to be productive. 1238 rushing yds and 1715 total yds plus 12 total TDs to be exact.

If Richardson is so incredibly talented as we keep hearing over and over, why can't he get something going on his own?

While I don't disagree with the overall sentiment, the Forte analogy is not a great one. First off, Forte's O-line was a bad pass blocking o-line - not a bad run-blocking o-line (Bear's fan here). It's also worth noting that Forte and Richardson are very different backs. Forte is a taller, quicker slasher-type RB who has great wiggle. Richardson is a more stout (3" shorter but heavier) power back (despite his tiptoeing) and was never known for great agility - although he can catch out of the backfield too.

I think this is simple a make or break season for Richardson. For the first time since coming into the NFL he is healthy through preseason, and is the same offense he was last year. His back is against the wall. I have him as my RB4 and am simply curious to see how he will respond to the situation.

 

[Bronco Billy]

This blaming of the O line and play calling is getting tiresome. Forte ran behind an awful O line in a horrendous offense, didn't have a QB anywhere remotely close to being as talented as Luck (Kyle Orton plus some Rex Grossman for good measure, for reference) and he still managed to be productive. 1238 rushing yds and 1715 total yds plus 12 total TDs to be exact.

If Richardson is so incredibly talented as we keep hearing over and over, why can't he get something going on his own?

While I don't disagree with the overall sentiment, the Forte analogy is not a great one. First off, Forte's O-line was a bad pass blocking o-line - not a bad run-blocking o-line (Bear's fan here). It's also worth noting that Forte and Richardson are very different backs. Forte is a taller, quicker slasher-type RB who has great wiggle. Richardson is a more stout (3" shorter but heavier) power back (despite his tiptoeing) and was never known for great agility - although he can catch out of the backfield too. I think this is simple a make or break season for Richardson. For the first time since coming into the NFL he is healthy through preseason, and is the same offense he was last year. His back is against the wall. I have him as my RB4 and am simply curious to see how he will respond to the situation.

We'll have to agree to disagree. That O-line couldn't do anything well. And we keep hearing from the pro-Richardson crowd how great of an athlete he is. Maybe he is, but there's a lot more to playing RB than just being athletic.

 

[RBM]

Can't believe this fn thread is always at the top. Look, the kid is a mess upstairs because he's not seeing giant holes like he did in college. That explains the tip toeing and dancing. He's looking for room and it's just not registering with him that there just isn't going to be much. So either a light goes on and he starts running like someone just stuck a lit firecracker in his ### (unlikely), or he continues his crap and averages 3 yards a carry and the Colts are in an ugly RBBC by week 5.

Now lock this #### up.

 

[False Start]

Can't believe this fn thread is always at the top. Look, the kid is a mess upstairs because he's not seeing giant holes like he did in college. That explains the tip toeing and dancing. He's looking for room and it's just not registering with him that there just isn't going to be much. So either a light goes on and he starts running like someone just stuck a lit firecracker in his ### (unlikely), or he continues his crap and averages 3 yards a carry and the Colts are in an ugly RBBC by week 5.

Now lock this #### up.

This is true, and have no problem agreeing that he is not the best RB out there.

That being said, at some point his value becomes a reward. I grabbed him as my #4 RB in the 9th round. For people like me that is a great value to have the possible upside in my #4 RB, if not cut.

We can continue to bash him and from the looks that is going to continue---

But at some point his talent upside regardless of current status turns into value.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Can't believe this fn thread is always at the top.

the way the board mechanics work is when you post in it the thread is bumped to the top

 

[cstu]

I just took him at pick 40 in a redraft as my RB2. He looked great running last week in the pre-season and is still very talented.

This forced me to take another RB in the early 6th as my 3rd: Ray Rice...

I'm coming to the conclusion that you've never seen a RB you don't love.

 

[cstu]

I-I agree with RBM...

 

[stbugs]

I just took him at pick 40 in a redraft as my RB2. He looked great running last week in the pre-season and is still very talented.

This forced me to take another RB in the early 6th as my 3rd: Ray Rice...

That's crazy even if you like him. He went pick 68 in my FBG's heavy PPR draft and that is a 2 keeper league, with 18 of the keepers having lower draft picks, so more like pick 80. Where you picked Rice was about where he went in our draft. Pick 40 was around Stafford, Vereen, Stacy, Allen, White, Garcon, Matthews, etc. I know you like him, but man, you passed up a much better player IMHO and probably could have gotten him in the 7th after Rice.

 

[RBM]

I-I agree with RBM...

If it were in the FFA, then we'd be in trouble.

 

[Keith Lewis]

Richardson sucks beyond belief.

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

I just took him at pick 40 in a redraft as my RB2. He looked great running last week in the pre-season and is still very talented.

This forced me to take another RB in the early 6th as my 3rd: Ray Rice...

I'm coming to the conclusion that you've never seen a RB you don't love.

Kinda makes you nervous that he's driving the Sankey bandwagon no?

 

[cstu]

I just took him at pick 40 in a redraft as my RB2. He looked great running last week in the pre-season and is still very talented.

This forced me to take another RB in the early 6th as my 3rd: Ray Rice...

I'm coming to the conclusion that you've never seen a RB you don't love.

Kinda makes you nervous that he's driving the Sankey bandwagon no?

 

[need2know]

The guy I am playing week 1 in my big money league has trich as his rb2. Brings a smile to my face every time I look at our matchup

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

The guy I am playing week 1 in my big money league has trich as his rb2. Brings a smile to my face every time I look at our matchup

guess you didn't see that 5 yd run a couple weeks ago

maybe it's on his youtube highlights

 

[ratbast]

Who's going to start calling O/U? I say 8tds/900yds plus decent receiving stats. I'll take the over.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Who's going to start calling O/U? I say 8tds/900yds plus decent receiving stats. I'll take the over.

stop trolling

you mean rest of career?

 

[mr roboto]

750 yds total, 4 total TDs.

 

[Jrodicus]

I'm very interested to see how Herron does with the 1's tomorrow. Even though he's a mediocre talent he at least does the things I described.

4 carries, 8 yards

 

[Jrodicus]

Who's going to start calling O/U? I say 8tds/900yds plus decent receiving stats. I'll take the over.

Mine, from the Bold Predictions thread:

PPR scoring:

With a stat line of something like 800 rushing yards, 45 receptions for 350 yards, and 10 total TDs, Trent Richardson scores over 220 points and finishes in RB1 territory

 

[ratbast]

Who's going to start calling O/U? I say 8tds/900yds plus decent receiving stats. I'll take the over.

stop trolling

you mean rest of career?

trolling? Nah.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Who's going to start calling O/U? I say 8tds/900yds plus decent receiving stats. I'll take the over.

Would you take the over at 899 yards?

 

[Reegus]

I'm very interested to see how Herron does with the 1's tomorrow. Even though he's a mediocre talent he at least does the things I described.

4 carries, 8 yards

Wow what a stud. Richardson better watch his back.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I'm very interested to see how Herron does with the 1's tomorrow. Even though he's a mediocre talent he at least does the things I described.

4 carries, 8 yards

Wow what a stud. Richardson better watch his back.

yeah, that's his job gettin' 8 yds on 4 carries

 

[Jrodicus]

I'm very interested to see how Herron does with the 1's tomorrow. Even though he's a mediocre talent he at least does the things I described.

4 carries, 8 yards

Wow what a stud. Richardson better watch his back.

Tipton had 6 carries for 27 yards behind the same O-line. Obviously, the line is fine and Herron sucks.

Tipton will be starting by week 3.

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

I'm very interested to see how Herron does with the 1's tomorrow. Even though he's a mediocre talent he at least does the things I described.

4 carries, 8 yards

Wow what a stud. Richardson better watch his back.

Remember. It doesn't count. He's running against backups.

 

[cvnpoka]

I just took him at pick 40 in a redraft as my RB2. He looked great running last week in the pre-season and is still very talented.

This forced me to take another RB in the early 6th as my 3rd: Ray Rice...

I'm coming to the conclusion that you've never seen a RB you don't love.

hes almost certainly trolling. no one is that bad at fantasy football.

 

[stbugs]

I'm very interested to see how Herron does with the 1's tomorrow. Even though he's a mediocre talent he at least does the things I described.

4 carries, 8 yards

He did have a real good 5 yard run.

 

[cstu]

I'm very interested to see how Herron does with the 1's tomorrow. Even though he's a mediocre talent he at least does the things I described.

4 carries, 8 yards

Wow what a stud. Richardson better watch his back.

Tipton had 6 carries for 27 yards behind the same O-line. Obviously, the line is fine and Herron sucks.

Tipton will be starting by week 3.

Richardson was benched last year because he was averaging 2.9 YPC and didn't top 2.8 YPC in a game during the preseason.

Maybe Richardson keeps his job because Herron and Tipton aren't special either.

 

[Reegus]

I'm very interested to see how Herron does with the 1's tomorrow. Even though he's a mediocre talent he at least does the things I described.

4 carries, 8 yards

Wow what a stud. Richardson better watch his back.

Tipton had 6 carries for 27 yards behind the same O-line. Obviously, the line is fine and Herron sucks.

Tipton will be starting by week 3.

Richardson was benched last year because he was averaging 2.9 YPC and didn't top 2.8 YPC in a game during the preseason.

Maybe Richardson keeps his job because Herron and Tipton aren't special either.

Thats the point... He's going to keep his job and get volume which will equal value as a rb3-5 for teams.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

think you guys forgot somebody

 

[Jrodicus]

I'm very interested to see how Herron does with the 1's tomorrow. Even though he's a mediocre talent he at least does the things I described.

4 carries, 8 yards

Wow what a stud. Richardson better watch his back.

Tipton had 6 carries for 27 yards behind the same O-line. Obviously, the line is fine and Herron sucks.

Tipton will be starting by week 3.

Richardson was benched last year because he was averaging 2.9 YPC and didn't top 2.8 YPC in a game during the preseason.

Maybe Richardson keeps his job because Herron and Tipton aren't special either.

Thats the point... He's going to keep his job and get volume which will equal value as a rb3-5 for teams.

Ding Ding Ding - we have a winner. Give that guy a cookie.

TRich doesn't have to be spectacular to have value this year; he just has to be good enough to hold on to the starting job. He wasn't in 2013, but last I checked, last year's points don't carry over to this season.

His value in dynasty leagues is a different story, but I'm guessing that even if TRich only averages 3.8 YPC this season but still puts up low-end RB1 numbers based on volume alone, his price will shoot up.

 

[socrates]

I'm very interested to see how Herron does with the 1's tomorrow. Even though he's a mediocre talent he at least does the things I described.

4 carries, 8 yards

Wow what a stud. Richardson better watch his back.

Tipton had 6 carries for 27 yards behind the same O-line. Obviously, the line is fine and Herron sucks.

Tipton will be starting by week 3.

Richardson was benched last year because he was averaging 2.9 YPC and didn't top 2.8 YPC in a game during the preseason.

Maybe Richardson keeps his job because Herron and Tipton aren't special either.

Thats the point... He's going to keep his job and get volume which will equal value as a rb3-5 for teams.

Ding Ding Ding - we have a winner. Give that guy a cookie.

TRich doesn't have to be spectacular to have value this year; he just has to be good enough to hold on to the starting job. He wasn't in 2013, but last I checked, last year's points don't carry over to this season.

His value in dynasty leagues is a different story, but I'm guessing that even if TRich only averages 3.8 YPC this season but still puts up low-end RB1 numbers based on volume alone, his price will shoot up.

That seems a bit optimistic

 

[mr roboto]

Why would he get 'volume' if his ypc is terrible? That seems like a weird combination.

'Yeah, he'll average 3.5 but with 400 touches he will be a great flex!'

 

[DoubleG]

Who's going to start calling O/U? I say 8tds/900yds plus decent receiving stats. I'll take the over.

stop trolling

you mean rest of career?

Lol.

 

[Area51Inhabitant]

Luck could very easily lead the Colts in rushing imo.