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Tiger Woods (1 Viewer)
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Otis
Footballguy
Cool. So we've got this subjective thing where maybe it's time to pay but maybe not. Do we go by your assessment? Or mine? What if he is two shy of the record and playing well? I guess you should probably pay me at that point? Or do we have to wait for 19?
Or what if he's two shy and retires? I pay? Or I don't?
You entered into a bet that a guy will never do something. When he dies, it's a clear win for you. When he retires at 55 or something, 5 short of the mark still? Yeah, I'd be pretty comfortable paying you then. If he retires in a year or two? Hell, I don't know. Did you win at that point? It looks like you probably will win at that point. But it also looked like Hillary probably would win and the Falcons probably would win.
Who decides?
By the way, I've never welched on a bet here, always pay out, and pay out quickly. But a deal's a deal.
Short Corner
Footballguy
Who could have predicted the ##### baggery from the Tiger knobbers?
Short Corner
Footballguy
Otis
Footballguy
Johnny Rock
Footballguy
The people whose life happiness seems contingent on Tiger spraying a drive or getting hurt again and posting their jubilation here are the db's imo.
Why are people that hope he can get right physically and mentally and return to the game on a regular basis db's?
zoonation
Footballguy
I agree that the terms of bet are obviously favourable to you and that, short of his death, you dictate when you are prepared to acknowledge that you lost the bet. Hell, he can play in the Masters and British as long as he wants. All I am saying is that if he retired next year (or anytime going forward, really) citing a back that will not allow him to compete at the level he wants to and he still sits 5 majors short, I would pay the bet.Otis said:
Your examples are a little disingenuous imo. Trump was a longshot. 10/1 would be a generous description of his pre-election odds. The Falcons were an even longer shot in the 4th quarter of the SB. I heard that, at one point they were 1.1% to come back.
There are no odds for Tiger beating Jack. The bookies stopped offering that prop future 2 years ago. Because everyone knows it will not happen. That ship has sailed. The odds that Tiger wins 5 more majors is orders of magnitude longer than Trump and the Falcons wins. The guy is (before the latest injury) even money just to finish top 20 this year. In any tournament that has a field of 100 guys.
Anyway, I recognize that when you decide to pay is entirely up to you. The terms of the bet clearly dictate that. I probably would rely on those favourable terms to ride this latest "comeback" out. But, if he retires, I'd pay. You may not. I get that.
EDIT: just found some odds as of November 2016. Tiger is 1000/1 to break Jack's record: http://www.sportsbettingexperts.com/golf-odds-tiger-woods-announces-return-to-competitive-play/
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Short Corner
Footballguy
Ok Newman.Otis said:
TheAristocrat
Footballguy
Short Corner = :cstu: ?
Worth looking into.
Worth looking into.
Otis
Footballguy
I honestly never understood this. He's not the model husband or family man, but otherwise what's so terrible? He was so much fun to watch and dominated golf in ways it had never been before. Maybe the most dominant player in all of sports for that stretch. I just don't understand why total strangers get off on his injuries and hardships.johnnyrock62000 said:
Weird world out there. I for one still hope he comes back. Nothing to do with the bet. I'd pay zoonation 1k to bring him back if I could. It's just a whole lot more fun watching golf when he's playing like himself.
Otis
Footballguy
I'm tempted to throw another $1k on him breaking Jack's record at those 1000/1 odds, as well as $1000 for him finishing top20 once this year. Could make a killing here.
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
aw hell i donnoShort Corner said:
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
sometimes i just say things
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
oats will pay. not sure why this is at issue. give him some leeway on the timeframe.
and those wishing ill on tiger, or anyone else, pretty lame.
and those wishing ill on tiger, or anyone else, pretty lame.
TakiToki
Footballguy
People betting on Tiger not catching Jack should really have set forth criteria when making the bet. Crazy stuff happens in this world. People improbably come back from injuries. People come out of retirement.
The fact that you weren't skilled enough to craft a better wager is not the fault of the people on the other side.
The fact that you weren't skilled enough to craft a better wager is not the fault of the people on the other side.
2nd in wins, 2nd in majors. Greatest 'run' in the history of golf but certainly not the GOAT. He could have been but he flamed out. Tyson was the greatest until he flamed out as well, then he wasn't. You become the greatest by performing as the greatest of the course of your career. Jack's majors span 24 years. Tiger flamed out after 12 years.
Joe T
Footballguy
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
literally just died
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Perfect, I will put down $1 for Binky and you can put down $2 for Otis. They pay us now and if Tiger breaks Jack's record in the future they are paid out. Everyone wins!
Judge Smails
Footballguy
No way. He'll have a very good, Phil Mickelson-type career. Could be a top 10 type career. But he'll never win 44% of the events he enters. It's amazing how quickly people have forgotten just how dominant Tiger was. He was so good he could be ultra conservative and win every other tournament he played in. Nobody else does that. And Jordan's swing doesn't stack up. His putting does, but that's it.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
He can play The Masters as long as he wants. And if he is healthy enough, he probably will.
After using sponsor exemptions and career money list exemptions, former #1 player David Duval gave it up. Even went back to Q School. But he is not in the same category for exemptions that Tiger is. He will be able to play in any tournament he wants going forward, except Major's, etc ( 18. Life Members (who have been active members of the PGA TOUR for 15 years and have won at least 20 co-sponsored events).
After using sponsor exemptions and career money list exemptions, former #1 player David Duval gave it up. Even went back to Q School. But he is not in the same category for exemptions that Tiger is. He will be able to play in any tournament he wants going forward, except Major's, etc ( 18. Life Members (who have been active members of the PGA TOUR for 15 years and have won at least 20 co-sponsored events).
the rover
Footballguy
Nicklaus won his last major at 46. Regardless of Tiger's health, I don't see how anyone could argue that this bet is lost when Tiger is 41. For all practical purposes, sure. But as far as having to pay up? Why wouldn't Tiger get the benefit of reaching the same age as Jack when he won 18?
mr roboto
Footballguy
Nope. Not even close.
There are 4-5 more talented players than him right now. There always will be.
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TheAristocrat
Footballguy
That's fair. Let's just say that there are some guys on this board that deserve their due. If Otis fakes a cancer death and leaves dramatically, that's on my dumb ###. Otherwise, the pigeon was never meant for him. Just saying.
#FbgFFAnerd
zoonation
Footballguy
I know he will. His character and reputation are well known and not in dispute. I've been a fan for years. Prime years oats was top drawer FFA stuff.
zoonation
Footballguy
zoonation
Footballguy
I agree. He isn't going to just troll around if he knows he can't win. He'll hang them up and walk away. It won't be a sandy Lyle situation where he shows up at Augusta every year as a mascot.
When he knows he can't win, he'll walk away. I think he is very close to realizing that. The SI article noted that Jordan basically already knows is done but doesn't have the heart to tell him that.
McGarnicle
Footballguy
1000-1? More like a quadrillion to one. Stop comparing his potential longevity to other golfers. He trained like an actual athlete, and at 41, after multiple back & knee surgeries, he's the equivalent of a 41-yo former elite pro athlete. He's done.
zoonation
Footballguy
Agree if he is one away. If he is 5 away at 45, totally different. The guy hasn't won a major in a decade. Jack's body wasn't destroyed either.
And, the competition now is way deeper. These kids are better than him at every facet of the game.
Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
Agreed ...but what if he retires and comes back?
ETA: Sorry, responded before I saw the rest of the ongoing conversation.
If Tiger formally announced his retirement, I would suggest going ahead and paying out with a caveat in the unlikely event that he comes back and breaks the record. In that case, I get my original payment back along with the bet payment.
Fair? ...
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mr roboto
Footballguy
He didn't train like an 'actual athlete.' He trained like a ####### moron. His fake military man bull#### would have been bad for any sport.
Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
Judge Smails
Footballguy
If Tiger had any shot it's over. This layoff was his last run. He made sure he didn't come back before he was mentally and physically ready. Plays a few rounds and now he's horizontal. Time to develop some courses Tiger..
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
the rover
Footballguy
Jack had bad knees and a bad back and from 1981-1985 won no majors and a total of 2 PGA tournaments, then won the Masters in 1986.
Nicklaus was playing agains players 20 years younger and at the top of their game.
Tiger looks to be far worse as far as his health, but on any day if he ever feels right he's still Tiger. He's not going to pass Jack, but if can somehow get his glutes to fire and avoids back spasms for 4 days, he could pull off a surprise win or two. I doubt he'll ever feel right and I think he should hang it up.
James Daulton
Footballguy
Given Otis's current, and expected physical condition over the next decade (let's just say he has the opposite problem Tiger has), someone should probably hold the money in escrow just in case.
I humbly offer my services.
I humbly offer my services.
James Daulton
Footballguy
Because he comes off like an ####### in public. And there are tons of stories of him being an ####### IRL too. Believe it or not, the vast majority of people still want people to be nice. Be an ####### and you can expect a whole lot of hate. Don't want to get hated? Don't be an #######.I honestly never understood this. He's not the model husband or family man, but otherwise what's so terrible? He was so much fun to watch and dominated golf in ways it had never been before. Maybe the most dominant player in all of sports for that stretch. I just don't understand why total strangers get off on his injuries and hardships.
Weird world out there. I for one still hope he comes back. Nothing to do with the bet. I'd pay zoonation 1k to bring him back if I could. It's just a whole lot more fun watching golf when he's playing like himself.
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Jayrok
Footballguy
Jordan has won 9 PGA events in his first 5 years on tour (1.8 wins per year). Tiger has won 79 PGA events spanning 18 years (4.4 wins per year), last win in 2013.
At Jordan's pace, in 18 years he will have won 32.4 events. To reach 79 wins, at that pace, he'll need 43.8 years on tour. He'll need to pick up the pace a little to catch Tiger, and throw in 16 more Majors in there somewhere. Add the fact that the competition will only get stiffer with all these young golfers (many of them inspired to play the game by Tiger Woods) coming along.
It's staggering the impact Tiger has had on the PGA tour. Jordan Spieth is a fine golfer and will have a great career, but he's no TW.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
In that long article, which was a good read, the part about him not picking up the tab for the Seals did not surprise me. Woods has always been high on the list of celebrities/athletes known for being cheap tippers, as has Michael Jordan, so it doesn't shock me that they are buddies. Jordan is probably the one who advised him long ago to do it.
Joe T
Footballguy
First of all, Spieth only has 4 full years on tour. He also tied Tiger with 7 total wins before turning 23. You are comparing Woods prime years to Spieth's first few years on tour which is a bit of a stretch.
Also from Wikipedia:
Spieth won his first major at the 2015 Masters Tournament with a score of 270 (−18), earning him $1.8 million. Spieth tied the 72-hole record set by Tiger Woods in 1997 and became the second youngest to win the Masters, behind Woods. He then won the 2015 U.S. Open with a final score of 5-under-par.[3] He was the youngest U.S. Open champion since Bobby Jones in 1923. He followed up with a win in the 2015 Tour Championship, which clinched the 2015 FedEx Cup. At the 2016 Masters Tournament, Spieth suffered one of the biggest collapses in the event's history after leading by five strokes halfway through the final round.
He's pretty good for only being 23. And his career is very comparable to Tiger at that age.
Jayrok
Footballguy
I made a mistake when I said he needs to win 16 more majors. I meant to type 12 more there. Spieth is in his 5th year so from January 2013 (Farmers Insurance Open; he missed the cut) to January 2017 he won 8 PGA events. His 9th win last weekend would be in his 5th year.Joe T said:
Spieth had 8 wins in his first 4 full years. Tiger turned pro in August of 1996, first win in Oct of '96. August 2000 would be his first 4 full years. He won the NEC Invitational on August 27th, 2000. This was his 23rd tour win.
Jordan had 8 wins in 4 years.... Tiger had 23 wins in 4 years.
You said Spieth will have a better career than Tiger. But if we just look at their first 4 years, since that is all we have of Spieth. Tiger had 15 more wins than Spieth in his first 4 years.
You mentioned Spieth tied Tiger with having 7 wins before turning 23. Tiger turned 25 in December, 2000. By that time, he had won 24 PGA events. Spieth (9 wins) will turn 25 on July 27, 2018. So we can expect Jordan to win 15 more PGA titles between now and July 27, 2018, yes? That's one year and five months away. Good luck, Jordan.
Tiger has also won 40 events on the European tour.
PGA Player of the Year 11 times (record)
PGA Tour Money Leader 10 times (record)
Vardon Trophy (leader in scoring average) winner 9 times (record)
Byron Nelson Award (lowest adjusted scoring average for the year) winner 9 times (record)
You mentioned that Jordan is pretty good for only being 23. I'd say he's actually very good at his age. One of the best in the game. Not disputing that at all. To have an overall better career than Tiger, though, he will have to continue to win for a long time. I just don't see it happening.
Phil Mickelson has been on the tour for 23 years. He has 42 PGA wins. Just over half of Tiger's.
Arnold Palmer's career spanned 19 years (compared to Tiger's 18 years... if he quit now). Palmer had 62 wins. 17 less than Tiger.
Nicklaus played for 25 years (compared to Tiger's 18) and while he had 18 Majors, he fell short of Tiger by 6 total wins.
Maybe when/if Jordan Spieth gets up to around 65 PGA wins (depending on how many Majors Jordan can win), the conversation can be debated. Jordan is a beast and I love watching him work. I honestly believe Jordan will win the Masters this year. I can see him winning many times in the next few years. He's mentally tough and I don't think what happened to him at Augusta last year will happen again. But man he's got a long way to go to have a better career than Tiger Woods.
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