Tiger Woods (2 Viewers)

[Apple Jack]

He had a very nice Round 3. Let's see if he can close it out in the 4th round like he used to do when he had a lead on Saturday night.

Would love to see him back in top form. It would make this year's majors much more interesting to have him in contention.

If this isn't top form, I don't know what is. I suppose he can still hit a little closer and hole a few more putts, but he hasn't been this consistent since 2007. It's getting to that word where he gets really dangerous...boring. Clean cards...greens in regulation from the fairway, rather than from the parking lot...routine two-putts, with the occasional putt falling. "Plodding along." The swing is different, but the stats remind me of 2007. I've been careful not declaring him "back." He's back. Whether or not he wins tomorrow, he's back.

I am talking more about the consistency part. He has been throwing some good rounds up for a few months, but hasn't had a consistent 4 rounds in a long time. Even at the Chevron he had one poor round.Also, his putting is no where near as consistent as he used to be. When he was in top form he rarely missed a putt within 12ft that he NEEDED to make. He hasn't putted with the same intensity or consistency since the accident and swing change. Before he (and most everyone else) knew he was going to make certain putts, he hasn't had that look in a long time.

He's always been a streaky putter. And while I think the days of Masters and US Open wins without three-putts are gone, the adjustments he's made to his putting stroke appear to have finally taken. I haven't seen him monkeying around with it this week, and he's stuck with the Method. Which is a huge sign, considering it wasn't long ago he was so far off-track that he was using a toe-down mallet just to help him release the putter. Then going back and forth between the Method and the Scotty. He's found it and now I think it's just a matter of hitting his approaches just a little bit closer if he's going to get to that level where he's lapping fields. I don't know that that's going to happen, but he is definitely going to win some events doing what he's doing now.As far as consistency, going back to the Australian Open, he's only had two off rounds of the 16, and they weren't even that bad. You can even extend that to the second round at Frys. He's playing well consistently and is the best player in the world at the moment.

 

[flapgreen]

He's as long as he's ever been

That should help on his next Vegas trip.

 

[bro1ncos]

Off to a good start with a nice putt on 2.

 

[Tony Jabroni]

Looks good early.

 

[bro1ncos]

Bogey bogey won't help

 

[bro1ncos]

2 Fairways, 4 GIR's and a 72 is not the normal round for Tiger on a Sunday. He is getting closer, but he isn't back yet.

 

[tipsy mcstagger]

Rock is going to be able to talk serious smack the rest of his life...great round/tourney ...beat Tiger Heads up with #2 & #3 in the world in the thick of it as well.

 

[Apple Jack]

2 Fairways, 4 GIR's and a 72 is not the normal round for Tiger on a Sunday. He is getting closer, but he isn't back yet.

Sure he is. He's finished 3; great, at times flawless, at the Presidents Cup; 1; T3 in his last four starts. You might want to bring your standards back to reality. And this crop of Europeans is better than the competition he used to face. A lot better.

 

[BobbyLayne]

2 Fairways, 4 GIR's and a 72 is not the normal round for Tiger on a Sunday. He is getting closer, but he isn't back yet.

Sure he is. He's finished 3; great, at times flawless, at the Presidents Cup; 1; T3 in his last four starts. You might want to bring your standards back to reality. And this crop of Europeans is better than the competition he used to face. A lot better.

True, but 1) Robert Rock is a journeyman, and always will be, and 2) Tiger shooting a 72 while having a horrendous ball striking round when tied for the lead on Sunday is about hims - not the competition.2 fairways and 4 GIRs is me on a bad day.

 

[Apple Jack]

2 Fairways, 4 GIR's and a 72 is not the normal round for Tiger on a Sunday. He is getting closer, but he isn't back yet.

Sure he is. He's finished 3; great, at times flawless, at the Presidents Cup; 1; T3 in his last four starts. You might want to bring your standards back to reality. And this crop of Europeans is better than the competition he used to face. A lot better.

True, but 1) Robert Rock is a journeyman, and always will be, and 2) Tiger shooting a 72 while having a horrendous ball striking round when tied for the lead on Sunday is about hims - not the competition.2 fairways and 4 GIRs is me on a bad day.

It's the four GIR that are the problem. He's missed fairways all day before and still scrambled. But this was major championship rough and his misses weren't severe enough to put him into crowd-trampled rough. That's one of the reasons I look at this round and still see positives. His misses with his driver were no more than a few yards off the fairway. His misses with his driver in the past were in the next county and he had to count on getting lucky. Obviously, he's still improving, but downplaying his play by saying he's "not back" is a bit detached from reality. Who has played better cumulatively since Sydney?This is really just a semantics argument. For me, best player in the world is "back." For some, they're not happy unless he's rattling off six wins in a row. Some are somewhere in between. But my standard for this conversation is being the best in the world. I think he is. And still trending upward.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I'm a HUGE Tiger fan and have been supportive of him during his first drought after Bethpage, and since Thanksgiving Weekend 2009. I still believe he'll break Jack's record. Nobody wants him to succeed more than myself.

Not buying your major championship rough theory. I know what I saw. But let's not make it he said he said. Just look at the stats:

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/season=2012/tournamentid=2012004/stats/index.html

Tiger ended the week with 50% fairways hit and 24th in GIR at 72.2%.

Gimme a break with the excuses. Westwood hit 48.2% of the fairways and finished 2nd with 79.2% GIR. McIlroy hit the same number of fairways and finished 5th with 79.2% GIR. Rock hit 51.2% and finished tied with Rory for GIR. Sergio hit 50% of the greens and had more GIR than Tiger. That's a whole lotta greens in regulation after driving into the rough. You can go through the list from the stats page I linked and find may lesser lights who overcame the major championship rough with ease.

Worth noting Tiger had more Fairways hit (26/42) and more GIR (46/54) through three rounds than any of the aforementioned. He played pretty average today, and that's not the Tiger of old.

Agree there were good things to take from the week. Disagree that you can dismiss his 4th round performance because of that.

 

[Apple Jack]

I'm not making excuses. 3, 1, 1, 3. That's all you need.

And believe it or not, he's had stretches of "back"-worthy golf where he didn't win every event he played. He doesn't win them all. And sometimes he's even...shot even par <gasp!>. And yes, that was Major Championship rough. There was a first cut that was very playable. But the second cut was brutal. Obviously, not the worst US Open rough ever set up, but certainly what qualifies as Major Championship rough.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I'm not making excuses. 3, 1, 1, 3. That's all you need.

What is that? Is that his position each of the four days? Seems like a queer argument.Woods failed to convert a 54-hole lead only 9 of the 61 times he held or shard a lead going into the final round. He's 48-for-52 on the PGA Tour, 14-for-15 in majors.His last five times, he failed to win three times.All that said, I do believe he'll win multiple tournaments and a major this year.

 

[Apple Jack]

He finished 3rd at Sydney, won the Presidents Cup playing the best golf in the field, won the Chevron, and finished T3 this week.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Oh, thanks, didn't realize he won the Presidents Cup. I had this odd notion it was a team event. But yeah, 18 player Chevron Challenge, that's solid stuff. And a lousy third round in Australia and played like crap today. That's four straight events (none official PGA Tour tournaments but let's ignore that) where he's had, ya know, good stuff happen.

He's back, baby!

 

[PinkydaPimp]

Oh, thanks, didn't realize he won the Presidents Cup. I had this odd notion it was a team event. But yeah, 18 player Chevron Challenge, that's solid stuff. And a lousy third round in Australia and played like crap today. That's four straight events (none official PGA Tour tournaments but let's ignore that) where he's had, ya know, good stuff happen.

He's back, baby!

 

[BobbyLayne]

For the record - or rather to repeat what I said several times upthread - I think we'll win multiple tournaments and a major this year. I think he'll beat Jack's record.

But he's not the best player in the world right now in terms of measurable performance. He doesn't have to be; Nicklaus won 9 tournaments and 3 majors while Watson was winning four straight money titles and four straight PotY awards. Which is how I envision this year and the next 4-5 years for Tiger. He won't ever get back to #1 on the OWGR IMO - McIlroy or Dustin Johnson or Kaymer or others will pass it around - but I honestly don't care if we never see dominant Tiger again. As long as he is healthy, he'll keep winning and piling up the records.

 

[Apple Jack]

Oh, thanks, didn't realize he won the Presidents Cup. I had this odd notion it was a team event. But yeah, 18 player Chevron Challenge, that's solid stuff. And a lousy third round in Australia and played like crap today. That's four straight events (none official PGA Tour tournaments but let's ignore that) where he's had, ya know, good stuff happen.

He's back, baby!

Okay, you're right. Those fields might as well have been the Paramus Four-Ball. And just a heads up...the top four ranked players in the world, and six of the top ten, were at Abu Dhabi this week, not Torrey Pines. Abu Dhabi was a stronger field. And the European Tour is better than the US Tour these days.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Look, A.J., if you're looking to claim the title of most obnoxious poster, it's all yours.

But the simple fact is the last five times Tiger went into the final round tied or leading, he lost.

Guess what, it happened again today.

Spin however you like, he is not at this point in time the best player in the world.

And for the fifth (fiftieth?) time, I think he'll win multiple PGA Tour events and a major in 2012.

 

[mr roboto]

He's not 'El Tigre' of old. I agree with BL there.

I think he can be a tamer Tiger and still be #1 in the world. When he was dominant, he was so far ahead of everyone else in the world. That won't happen again.

'Back' = #1? I think that will happen.

'Back' = freakishly dominant? Nope.

 

[Apple Jack]

He'll be #1 by the end of the year, if not much sooner. He's hitting it too good right now and hasn't even really given him the chance to get get into a rhythm in competition yet.

And you took the obnoxious tone first, BL. I'm just telling you what I'm seeing. I know the golf swing and I'm telling you he's there. As far as getting comfortable with his nerves again on Sunday, that's a different thing and it will come with a full schedule. It's inevitable. But his mechanics are back, he's got a fantastic golf swing right now and it's only the first event of the season. Again, the whole "back" thing is a semantics argument. I'm talking about his golf swing and his putting stroke. He's back in the building.

 

[Das Boot]

Radar Man: Well, it appears to be in the shape of a Big Boy!

Commander Gilmour: Good God! He's back!

Radar Man: Well, in many ways, Big Boy never left, sir.

 

[gump]

Nice start yesterday for top 15.

Can someone explain the basics of his swings changes to me? I never understood the 'forearm roll' that Hank Haney was teaching him....his swing always looked so much more awkward to me. Now it looks more like it did pre-Haney...and to me seems more athletic and lets him maximize his talent....even though he's actually more consistent off the tee with it so far. Is it just much more straight back and through?

 

[Apple Jack]

Nice start yesterday for top 15.Can someone explain the basics of his swings changes to me? I never understood the 'forearm roll' that Hank Haney was teaching him....his swing always looked so much more awkward to me. Now it looks more like it did pre-Haney...and to me seems more athletic and lets him maximize his talent....even though he's actually more consistent off the tee with it so far. Is it just much more straight back and through?

It's most easily seen in his set-up from behind, looking down the line. Look where his head is in relation to his hands and the ball. Simply put, he's more over top of the ball and swinging more upright. The forearm roll they talk about with Haney produced a flatter, somewhat laid-off position at the top, meaning that the club was more behind him at the top of his backswing. That used to lead to timing issues, and him getting "stuck" and having to use his utterly ridiculous ability to correct in real-time to save it with his hands. Sometimes he couldn't, especially with his driver, which is generally what was happening when he hit those monster hooks. After he'd hit them, you'd see him often reenact the swing on the tee box before leaving, emphasizing the area just short of impact where he was getting the club stuck behind him, where he'd have to flip his hands to get the club to impact in time. But the best way to state it is probably that his swing plane is more vertical now and it's all more in front of him, which is always easier to control, than it was with Haney. You can tell that this is much more manageable by comparing his misses with those when he had the Haney swing. He doesn't have the next fairway over misses anymore. His ball-striking is a thing of beauty right now.

 

[derek245583]

Nice start yesterday for top 15.Can someone explain the basics of his swings changes to me? I never understood the 'forearm roll' that Hank Haney was teaching him....his swing always looked so much more awkward to me. Now it looks more like it did pre-Haney...and to me seems more athletic and lets him maximize his talent....even though he's actually more consistent off the tee with it so far. Is it just much more straight back and through?

It's most easily seen in his set-up from behind, looking down the line. Look where his head is in relation to his hands and the ball. Simply put, he's more over top of the ball and swinging more upright. The forearm roll they talk about with Haney produced a flatter, somewhat laid-off position at the top, meaning that the club was more behind him at the top of his backswing. That used to lead to timing issues, and him getting "stuck" and having to use his utterly ridiculous ability to correct in real-time to save it with his hands. Sometimes he couldn't, especially with his driver, which is generally what was happening when he hit those monster hooks. After he'd hit them, you'd see him often reenact the swing on the tee box before leaving, emphasizing the area just short of impact where he was getting the club stuck behind him, where he'd have to flip his hands to get the club to impact in time. But the best way to state it is probably that his swing plane is more vertical now and it's all more in front of him, which is always easier to control, than it was with Haney. You can tell that this is much more manageable by comparing his misses with those when he had the Haney swing. He doesn't have the next fairway over misses anymore. His ball-striking is a thing of beauty right now.

Pretty good summary from my understanding

 

[gump]

Nice start yesterday for top 15.Can someone explain the basics of his swings changes to me? I never understood the 'forearm roll' that Hank Haney was teaching him....his swing always looked so much more awkward to me. Now it looks more like it did pre-Haney...and to me seems more athletic and lets him maximize his talent....even though he's actually more consistent off the tee with it so far. Is it just much more straight back and through?

It's most easily seen in his set-up from behind, looking down the line. Look where his head is in relation to his hands and the ball. Simply put, he's more over top of the ball and swinging more upright. The forearm roll they talk about with Haney produced a flatter, somewhat laid-off position at the top, meaning that the club was more behind him at the top of his backswing. That used to lead to timing issues, and him getting "stuck" and having to use his utterly ridiculous ability to correct in real-time to save it with his hands. Sometimes he couldn't, especially with his driver, which is generally what was happening when he hit those monster hooks. After he'd hit them, you'd see him often reenact the swing on the tee box before leaving, emphasizing the area just short of impact where he was getting the club stuck behind him, where he'd have to flip his hands to get the club to impact in time. But the best way to state it is probably that his swing plane is more vertical now and it's all more in front of him, which is always easier to control, than it was with Haney. You can tell that this is much more manageable by comparing his misses with those when he had the Haney swing. He doesn't have the next fairway over misses anymore. His ball-striking is a thing of beauty right now.

Thanks Jack. Close to what I thought....his pre-and-post-Haney swing seems like it allows him to get THRU it more aggressively. What was Haney's vision behind the big change....the advantage of the flatter swing...better ball-striking?

 

[derek245583]

Better clear out your schedules tomorrow

 

[mr roboto]

I also notice less rotation of his hands in the immediate takeaway. On some of his shorter knockdown shots and wedges it almost looks like he is counter rotating his hands to keep them 'shut' relative to Haney mechanics.

I love his new swing. Best since Butch circa 2000 IMO

 

[Apple Jack]

I also notice less rotation of his hands in the immediate takeaway. On some of his shorter knockdown shots and wedges it almost looks like he is counter rotating his hands to keep them 'shut' relative to Haney mechanics.

I love his new swing. Best since Butch circa 2000 IMO

Absolutely. He's letting the wrist #### set naturally.

 

[urbanhack]

[turkish] [/turkish]

 

[Ray Hueston]

Paddy is going to win this

 

[flapgreen]

He's done. He'll be competitive but he lost the fear factor. Looks like The Gold Bear might be out of the woods.

Still true, imo.

 

[mr roboto]

Nice start yesterday for top 15.Can someone explain the basics of his swings changes to me? I never understood the 'forearm roll' that Hank Haney was teaching him....his swing always looked so much more awkward to me. Now it looks more like it did pre-Haney...and to me seems more athletic and lets him maximize his talent....even though he's actually more consistent off the tee with it so far. Is it just much more straight back and through?

It's most easily seen in his set-up from behind, looking down the line. Look where his head is in relation to his hands and the ball. Simply put, he's more over top of the ball and swinging more upright. The forearm roll they talk about with Haney produced a flatter, somewhat laid-off position at the top, meaning that the club was more behind him at the top of his backswing. That used to lead to timing issues, and him getting "stuck" and having to use his utterly ridiculous ability to correct in real-time to save it with his hands. Sometimes he couldn't, especially with his driver, which is generally what was happening when he hit those monster hooks. After he'd hit them, you'd see him often reenact the swing on the tee box before leaving, emphasizing the area just short of impact where he was getting the club stuck behind him, where he'd have to flip his hands to get the club to impact in time. But the best way to state it is probably that his swing plane is more vertical now and it's all more in front of him, which is always easier to control, than it was with Haney. You can tell that this is much more manageable by comparing his misses with those when he had the Haney swing. He doesn't have the next fairway over misses anymore. His ball-striking is a thing of beauty right now.

Thanks Jack. Close to what I thought....his pre-and-post-Haney swing seems like it allows him to get THRU it more aggressively. What was Haney's vision behind the big change....the advantage of the flatter swing...better ball-striking?

It can promote a more inside approach to the ball, producing a consistent draw.

 

[Dark Matter]

Paired with Phil today ullsupachair:

 

[gump]

Nice start yesterday for top 15.Can someone explain the basics of his swings changes to me? I never understood the 'forearm roll' that Hank Haney was teaching him....his swing always looked so much more awkward to me. Now it looks more like it did pre-Haney...and to me seems more athletic and lets him maximize his talent....even though he's actually more consistent off the tee with it so far. Is it just much more straight back and through?

It's most easily seen in his set-up from behind, looking down the line. Look where his head is in relation to his hands and the ball. Simply put, he's more over top of the ball and swinging more upright. The forearm roll they talk about with Haney produced a flatter, somewhat laid-off position at the top, meaning that the club was more behind him at the top of his backswing. That used to lead to timing issues, and him getting "stuck" and having to use his utterly ridiculous ability to correct in real-time to save it with his hands. Sometimes he couldn't, especially with his driver, which is generally what was happening when he hit those monster hooks. After he'd hit them, you'd see him often reenact the swing on the tee box before leaving, emphasizing the area just short of impact where he was getting the club stuck behind him, where he'd have to flip his hands to get the club to impact in time. But the best way to state it is probably that his swing plane is more vertical now and it's all more in front of him, which is always easier to control, than it was with Haney. You can tell that this is much more manageable by comparing his misses with those when he had the Haney swing. He doesn't have the next fairway over misses anymore. His ball-striking is a thing of beauty right now.

Thanks Jack. Close to what I thought....his pre-and-post-Haney swing seems like it allows him to get THRU it more aggressively. What was Haney's vision behind the big change....the advantage of the flatter swing...better ball-striking?

It can promote a more inside approach to the ball, producing a consistent draw.

I get that part....but why? Was greater consistency the goal? Seems like a straighter back and thru would promote more consistency (and has).

 

[derek245583]

Paired with Phil today ullsupachair:

And Wi 3 putts from 4 feet

 

[mr roboto]

Nice start yesterday for top 15.Can someone explain the basics of his swings changes to me? I never understood the 'forearm roll' that Hank Haney was teaching him....his swing always looked so much more awkward to me. Now it looks more like it did pre-Haney...and to me seems more athletic and lets him maximize his talent....even though he's actually more consistent off the tee with it so far. Is it just much more straight back and through?

It's most easily seen in his set-up from behind, looking down the line. Look where his head is in relation to his hands and the ball. Simply put, he's more over top of the ball and swinging more upright. The forearm roll they talk about with Haney produced a flatter, somewhat laid-off position at the top, meaning that the club was more behind him at the top of his backswing. That used to lead to timing issues, and him getting "stuck" and having to use his utterly ridiculous ability to correct in real-time to save it with his hands. Sometimes he couldn't, especially with his driver, which is generally what was happening when he hit those monster hooks. After he'd hit them, you'd see him often reenact the swing on the tee box before leaving, emphasizing the area just short of impact where he was getting the club stuck behind him, where he'd have to flip his hands to get the club to impact in time. But the best way to state it is probably that his swing plane is more vertical now and it's all more in front of him, which is always easier to control, than it was with Haney. You can tell that this is much more manageable by comparing his misses with those when he had the Haney swing. He doesn't have the next fairway over misses anymore. His ball-striking is a thing of beauty right now.

Thanks Jack. Close to what I thought....his pre-and-post-Haney swing seems like it allows him to get THRU it more aggressively. What was Haney's vision behind the big change....the advantage of the flatter swing...better ball-striking?

It can promote a more inside approach to the ball, producing a consistent draw.

I get that part....but why? Was greater consistency the goal? Seems like a straighter back and thru would promote more consistency (and has).

I think Haney is a one-plane swing guy. It's hard to get a flatter swing plane without early rotation of the forearms and hands.Try swinging 'flatter' around your body with a one piece takeaway. It's awkward. I don't like Haney's swing mechanics for myself. But if you pick a philosophy, and can return the club-head square and on-line at impact, good on ya mate.

 

[Ray Hueston]

Seems borderline racist to call this Wi guy Charlie. He is on his way to shooting an 85

 

[Apple Jack]

I remember something about wanting to get some of the torque out of his back being the rationale for going to the Haney swing. I don't really see how it helped that all that much. I always thought it had a lot to do with boredom.

Jesus, Mickelson is on fire.

 

[flapgreen]

He needs to retire.

 

[urbanhack]

not a fan of the white tennis shoe golf shoe.

 

[BobbyLayne]

1 UNDER THROUGH 6 TWO OFF LEAD

3 straight bogies 5 back

Lefty with the textbook PB round - get all you can the first six then hang on

 

[mr roboto]

Oof. 1 handed the follow through on that drive. Tried a cut, didn't cut.

 

[flapgreen]

Give it up! It's over.

 

[mr roboto]

Missed it by that much.

 

[BobbyLayne]

What I love about watching the PGA Tour is you see a guy like Kevin Streelman and you think, "Hey, I think that guy used to be our Purchasing Manager"

 

[BobbyLayne]

that was cool (Woods holed out fm bunker) - could be a two shot swing

 

[BobbyLayne]

Wow! What a putt by Lefty

 

[ffldrew]

So how does the new Mrs. Romo feel about her hubby heading off to play golf with Tiger for a weekend?

 

[Dark Matter]

Ball misses the basket short and left. Why the :highfive: