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timschochet's thread- Mods, please move this thread to the Politics Subforum, thank you (2 Viewers)

Cuban? No, Dutch Irish. My father was from Wales.
The Dutch are an amazing people. Amazes me to go to the Caribbean and see the Dutch people that have been living in the islands for generations, they're in the Pacific too, they built New York (New Amsterdam) as well. Sailors and explorers through and through.

 
Op Ed piece from Real Clear Politics yesterday, by a University of Michigan professor- this one ought to get some interesting reaction:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2014/12/17/it039s_okay_to_hate_republicans_347657.html

It's Okay to Hate Republicans

I hate Republicans. I can’t stand the thought of having to spend the next two years watching Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, Ted Cruz, Darrell Issa or any of the legions of other blowhards denying climate change, thwarting immigration reform or championing fetal “personhood.”

This loathing is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back
 in the 1970s, I worked for a Republican, Fred Lippitt, the senate minority leader in Rhode Island, and I loved him. He was a brand of Republican now extinct—a “moderate” who was fiscally conservative but progressive about women’s rights, racial justice and environmental preservation. Had he been closer to my age, I could have contemplated marrying someone like Fred. Today, marrying a Republican is unimaginable to me. And I’m
 not alone. Back in 1960, only 5 
percent of Republicans and 4
 percent of Democrats said they’d
 be “displeased” if their child married someone from the opposite
 party. Today? Forty-nine percent 
of Republicans and 33 percent of
 Democrats would be pissed.

According to a recent study 
by Stanford professor Shanto
 Iyengar and Princeton researcher 
Sean Westwood, such polarization has increased dramatically 
in recent years. What’s noteworthy 
is how entrenched this mutual animus is. It’s fine for me to use the word “hate” when referring to Republicans and for them to use the same word about me, but you would never use the word “hate” when referring to people of color, or women, or gays and lesbians.

And now party identification and hatred shape a whole host of non-political decisions. Iyengar and Westwood asked participants in their study to review the resumés of graduating high school seniors to decide which ones should receive scholarships. Some resumés had cues about party affiliation (say, member of the Young Republicans Club) and some about racial identity (also through extracurricular activities, or via a stereotypical name). Race mattered, but not nearly as much as partisanship. An overwhelming 80 percent of partisans chose the student of their own party. And this held true even if the candidate from the opposite party had better credentials.

How did we come to this pass? Obviously, my tendency is to blame the Republicans more than the Democrats, which may seem biased. But history and psychological research bear me out.

Let’s start with the history. This isn’t like a fight between siblings, where the parent says, “It doesn’t matter who started it.” Yes, it does.

A brief review of Republican rhetoric and strategies since the 1980s shows an escalation of determined vilification (which has been amplified relentlessly on Fox News since 1996). From Spiro Agnew’s attack on intellectuals as an “effete corps of impudent snobs”; to Rush Limbaugh’s hate speech; to the GOP’s endless campaign
to smear the Clintons over Whitewater, then bludgeon Bill over Monica Lewinsky; to the ceaseless denigration of President Obama (“socialist,” “Muslim”), the Republicans have crafted a political identity that rests on a complete repudiation of the idea that the opposing party and its followers have any legitimacy at all.

Why does this work? A series of studies has found that political conservatives tend toward certain psychological characteristics. What are they? Dogmatism, rigidity and intolerance
 of ambiguity; a need to avoid uncertainty; support for authoritarianism; a heightened sense of threat from others; and a personal need for structure. How do these qualities influence political thinking?

According to researchers, the two core dimensions of conservative thought are resistance to change and support for inequality. These, in turn, are core elements of social intolerance. The need for certainty, the need to manage fear of social change, lead to black-and-white thinking and an embrace of stereotypes. Which could certainly lead to a desire to deride those not like you—whether people of color, LGBT people or Democrats. And, especially since the early 1990s, Republican politicians and pundits have been feeding these needs with a single-minded, uncomplicated, good-vs.-evil worldview that vilifies Democrats.

So now we hate them back. And for good reason. Which is too bad. I miss the Fred Lippitts of yore and the civilized discourse and political accomplishments they made possible. And so do millions of totally fed-up Americans.

 
All right, now remember that I haven't seen Kirk Cameron's Saving Christmas yet, and that could change EVERYTHING. But, as for now, in no particular order:

Die Hard

A Christmas Carol (40's version)

Gremlins

Santa Claus Conquers the Martians

The Polar Express

Full Metal Jacket "Happy Birthday dear Jesus!"
I think A Christmas Carol needs its own separate category, being the GOAT Christmas story, its not really fair to try to work it into a general Christmas movie list. I finally saw the Patrick Stewart version last night, and would slot it in third behind (1) Alistair Sim '51 and (2) Muppets.

 
The Cuba Archive project (www.cub aarchive.org) has already begun the heavy lifting by attempting to document the loss of life attributable to revolutionary zealotry. The project, ba sed in Chatham, N.J., covers the period from May 1952 -- when the cons titutional government fell to Gen. Fulgencio Batista -- to the present. It has so far verifi ed the names of 9,240 victims of the Castro regime and the circumstances of their deaths. Archive researchers meticulously insist on c onfirming stories of official murder from two inde p endent sources. Cuba Archive President Maria Werlau says the tota l number of victims could be higher by a factor of 10. Project Vice President Armando Lago, a Harvard- trained economist, has spent years studying the cost of the revolution and he estimat es that almost 78,000 innocents may have died trying to flee the dictatorship. Another 5,300 are known to have lost their lives fighting communism in the Escambray Mountains (mostly peasant farmers and their children) and at the Bay of Pigs. An estimated 14,000 C ubans were killed in Fidel's re volutionary adventures abroad, most notably his dispatch of 50,000 soldiers to Angola in the 1980s to help the Soviet-backed regime fight off the Unita insurgency. The archive project can be li kened to the 1999 "Black Book of Communism," which documented the world-wide cost of communism, noting th at "wherever the millenarian ideology of Communism was establis hed it quickly led to crime, te rror and repression." The Castro methodology, Cuba Archive finds, was much like that used in Poland and East Germany, less lethal than Stalin's pur ges, but equally effective in suppressing opposition. In the earliest days of the re volution, summary executions establ ished a culture of fear that quickly eliminated most resist ance. In the decades that foll owed, inhumane prison conditions often leading to death, unspeakable torture a nd privation were enough to keep Cubans cowed. Cuba Archive finds that some 5,600 Cubans have died in front of firing squads and another 1,200 in "extrajudicial assassinations." Che Guevara was a gleeful executioner at the infamous La Cabaña Fortress in 1959 where, und er his orders, at least 151 C ubans were lined up and shot. Children have not been spared. Of the 94 minor s whose deaths have b een documented by Cuba Archive, 22 died by firing squad and 32 in extrajudicial assassinations.
[SIZE=15pt]http://www.cubaarchive.org/downloads/CA22.pdf[/SIZE]
I don't understand your point in posting this. We know that the Cuban government has done some very bad things. Does that mean, in your opinion, that we should never have relations with them?
No, it was a follow-up on the responses further up about atrocities and the sort of things that would require reconciliation or justice.

As I've stated the US has a wonderful way of worming itself into a nation so I can only hope our involvement in their economy and government will help bring the Castro regime down.
Reconciliation is an interesting word. Are you familiar with Nelson Mandela's Truth and Reconciliation Commission? It was an interesting and novel way to handle this sort of issue, and it seems to me that South Africa is better off as a result. Indeed, it might be Mandela's single greatest achievement.
Yes, right, that could happen too. But either way there has to be a transition. In East Germany they opened all the Stassi files. That would be good too.
East Germany is not really a good example for me, because the Germans perceived the Russians as occupiers and their government, and especially the Stasi, as collaborators. That is not how the Cubans perceive the Castro regime.

 
All right, now remember that I haven't seen Kirk Cameron's Saving Christmas yet, and that could change EVERYTHING. But, as for now, in no particular order:

Die Hard

A Christmas Carol (40's version)

Gremlins

Santa Claus Conquers the Martians

The Polar Express

Full Metal Jacket "Happy Birthday dear Jesus!"
I think A Christmas Carol needs its own separate category, being the GOAT Christmas story, its not really fair to try to work it into a general Christmas movie list. I finally saw the Patrick Stewart version last night, and would slot it in third behind (1) Alistair Sim '51 and (2) Muppets.
Sim is who I meant. I said 40s and meant 50s.

 
Susan Douglas is a University of Michigan professor and department chair who is not shy about expressing her viewpoints - political or otherwise.

...

University of Michigan spokesman Rick Fitzgerald responded on behalf of the school, saying it didn't share the same viewpoints as Douglas.

"The views expressed are those of the individual faculty member and not those of the University of Michigan. Faculty freedom of expression, including in the public sphere, is one of the core values of our institution," Fitzgerald said in an email to The Ann Arbor News.

"At the same time, the university must and will work vigilantly to ensure students can express diverse ideas and perspectives in a respectful environment and without fear of reprisal. The university values viewpoint diversity and encourages a wide range of opinions."

U-M's anti-discrimination policy states that people affiliated with the university cannot create "...an intimidating, hostile, offensive, or abusive environment for that individual's employment, education, living environment, or participation in a University activity."
http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2014/12/u-m_releases_statement_after_p.html

 
The Cuba Archive project (www.cub aarchive.org) has already begun the heavy lifting by attempting to document the loss of life attributable to revolutionary zealotry. The project, ba sed in Chatham, N.J., covers the period from May 1952 -- when the cons titutional government fell to Gen. Fulgencio Batista -- to the present. It has so far verifi ed the names of 9,240 victims of the Castro regime and the circumstances of their deaths. Archive researchers meticulously insist on c onfirming stories of official murder from two inde p endent sources. Cuba Archive President Maria Werlau says the tota l number of victims could be higher by a factor of 10. Project Vice President Armando Lago, a Harvard- trained economist, has spent years studying the cost of the revolution and he estimat es that almost 78,000 innocents may have died trying to flee the dictatorship. Another 5,300 are known to have lost their lives fighting communism in the Escambray Mountains (mostly peasant farmers and their children) and at the Bay of Pigs. An estimated 14,000 C ubans were killed in Fidel's re volutionary adventures abroad, most notably his dispatch of 50,000 soldiers to Angola in the 1980s to help the Soviet-backed regime fight off the Unita insurgency. The archive project can be li kened to the 1999 "Black Book of Communism," which documented the world-wide cost of communism, noting th at "wherever the millenarian ideology of Communism was establis hed it quickly led to crime, te rror and repression." The Castro methodology, Cuba Archive finds, was much like that used in Poland and East Germany, less lethal than Stalin's pur ges, but equally effective in suppressing opposition. In the earliest days of the re volution, summary executions establ ished a culture of fear that quickly eliminated most resist ance. In the decades that foll owed, inhumane prison conditions often leading to death, unspeakable torture a nd privation were enough to keep Cubans cowed. Cuba Archive finds that some 5,600 Cubans have died in front of firing squads and another 1,200 in "extrajudicial assassinations." Che Guevara was a gleeful executioner at the infamous La Cabaña Fortress in 1959 where, und er his orders, at least 151 C ubans were lined up and shot. Children have not been spared. Of the 94 minor s whose deaths have b een documented by Cuba Archive, 22 died by firing squad and 32 in extrajudicial assassinations.
[SIZE=15pt]http://www.cubaarchive.org/downloads/CA22.pdf[/SIZE]
I don't understand your point in posting this. We know that the Cuban government has done some very bad things. Does that mean, in your opinion, that we should never have relations with them?
No, it was a follow-up on the responses further up about atrocities and the sort of things that would require reconciliation or justice.

As I've stated the US has a wonderful way of worming itself into a nation so I can only hope our involvement in their economy and government will help bring the Castro regime down.
Reconciliation is an interesting word. Are you familiar with Nelson Mandela's Truth and Reconciliation Commission? It was an interesting and novel way to handle this sort of issue, and it seems to me that South Africa is better off as a result. Indeed, it might be Mandela's single greatest achievement.
Yes, right, that could happen too. But either way there has to be a transition. In East Germany they opened all the Stassi files. That would be good too.
East Germany is not really a good example for me, because the Germans perceived the Russians as occupiers and their government, and especially the Stasi, as collaborators. That is not how the Cubans perceive the Castro regime.
First of all, the Germans were perceiving it exactly right, but they know it was their own people doing what they did and they held them to account as Germans.

Secondly, the Cubans are not just in Cuba, they are also here. But there are plenty victims in Cuba, they have been spied on just as the Germans were spied on by the Stassi, there ie is an extensive domestic spy network in Cuba. I will add they were also largely puppets of the Soviets.

 
Susan Douglas is a University of Michigan professor and department chair who is not shy about expressing her viewpoints - political or otherwise.

...

University of Michigan spokesman Rick Fitzgerald responded on behalf of the school, saying it didn't share the same viewpoints as Douglas.

"The views expressed are those of the individual faculty member and not those of the University of Michigan. Faculty freedom of expression, including in the public sphere, is one of the core values of our institution," Fitzgerald said in an email to The Ann Arbor News.

"At the same time, the university must and will work vigilantly to ensure students can express diverse ideas and perspectives in a respectful environment and without fear of reprisal. The university values viewpoint diversity and encourages a wide range of opinions."

U-M's anti-discrimination policy states that people affiliated with the university cannot create "...an intimidating, hostile, offensive, or abusive environment for that individual's employment, education, living environment, or participation in a University activity."
http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2014/12/u-m_releases_statement_after_p.html
I figured you'd love that piece Saints. Incidentally, she's received death threats and the title has been changed.

This was my favorite part:

A series of studies has found that political conservatives tend toward certain psychological characteristics. What are they? Dogmatism, rigidity and intolerance
 of ambiguity; a need to avoid uncertainty; support for authoritarianism; a heightened sense of threat from others; and a personal need for structure.

 
The Scandinavian? :X

Love the Caro Kann. Play it religiously in response to e4
I used to play Caro Kann.

I know the Scandinavian like the back of my hand. It's a weak opening for grandmasters, but since I'm not one and never will be it works for me. It's fine in club level chess.
Same reason I play the Caro. Almost impossible to find an opponent who knows the Main Line advanced at my level and typically tear opponents apart with it.

Actually prefer playing black at my level because of it.

Learned the Caro and Nimzo-Indian pat years ago. Of course, I lose everyone game that opens with C4 now.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Cuba Archive project (www.cub aarchive.org) has already begun the heavy lifting by attempting to document the loss of life attributable to revolutionary zealotry. The project, ba sed in Chatham, N.J., covers the period from May 1952 -- when the cons titutional government fell to Gen. Fulgencio Batista -- to the present. It has so far verifi ed the names of 9,240 victims of the Castro regime and the circumstances of their deaths. Archive researchers meticulously insist on c onfirming stories of official murder from two inde p endent sources. Cuba Archive President Maria Werlau says the tota l number of victims could be higher by a factor of 10. Project Vice President Armando Lago, a Harvard- trained economist, has spent years studying the cost of the revolution and he estimat es that almost 78,000 innocents may have died trying to flee the dictatorship. Another 5,300 are known to have lost their lives fighting communism in the Escambray Mountains (mostly peasant farmers and their children) and at the Bay of Pigs. An estimated 14,000 C ubans were killed in Fidel's re volutionary adventures abroad, most notably his dispatch of 50,000 soldiers to Angola in the 1980s to help the Soviet-backed regime fight off the Unita insurgency. The archive project can be li kened to the 1999 "Black Book of Communism," which documented the world-wide cost of communism, noting th at "wherever the millenarian ideology of Communism was establis hed it quickly led to crime, te rror and repression." The Castro methodology, Cuba Archive finds, was much like that used in Poland and East Germany, less lethal than Stalin's pur ges, but equally effective in suppressing opposition. In the earliest days of the re volution, summary executions establ ished a culture of fear that quickly eliminated most resist ance. In the decades that foll owed, inhumane prison conditions often leading to death, unspeakable torture a nd privation were enough to keep Cubans cowed. Cuba Archive finds that some 5,600 Cubans have died in front of firing squads and another 1,200 in "extrajudicial assassinations." Che Guevara was a gleeful executioner at the infamous La Cabaña Fortress in 1959 where, und er his orders, at least 151 C ubans were lined up and shot. Children have not been spared. Of the 94 minor s whose deaths have b een documented by Cuba Archive, 22 died by firing squad and 32 in extrajudicial assassinations.
[SIZE=15pt]http://www.cubaarchive.org/downloads/CA22.pdf[/SIZE]
I don't understand your point in posting this. We know that the Cuban government has done some very bad things. Does that mean, in your opinion, that we should never have relations with them?
No, it was a follow-up on the responses further up about atrocities and the sort of things that would require reconciliation or justice.

As I've stated the US has a wonderful way of worming itself into a nation so I can only hope our involvement in their economy and government will help bring the Castro regime down.
Reconciliation is an interesting word. Are you familiar with Nelson Mandela's Truth and Reconciliation Commission? It was an interesting and novel way to handle this sort of issue, and it seems to me that South Africa is better off as a result. Indeed, it might be Mandela's single greatest achievement.
Yes, right, that could happen too. But either way there has to be a transition. In East Germany they opened all the Stassi files. That would be good too.
East Germany is not really a good example for me, because the Germans perceived the Russians as occupiers and their government, and especially the Stasi, as collaborators. That is not how the Cubans perceive the Castro regime.
First of all, the Germans were perceiving it exactly right, but they know it was their own people doing what they did and they held them to account as Germans.

Secondly, the Cubans are not just in Cuba, they are also here. But there are plenty victims in Cuba, they have been spied on just as the Germans were spied on by the Stassi, there ie is an extensive domestic spy network in Cuba. I will add they were also largely puppets of the Soviets.
I don't believe the Castro regime were ever puppets of the Soviets. They received Soviet help (and missiles!) but Castro was never that guy. More like a Tito actually. He was his own Communist from the beginning.

 
Susan Douglas is a University of Michigan professor and department chair who is not shy about expressing her viewpoints - political or otherwise.

...

University of Michigan spokesman Rick Fitzgerald responded on behalf of the school, saying it didn't share the same viewpoints as Douglas.

"The views expressed are those of the individual faculty member and not those of the University of Michigan. Faculty freedom of expression, including in the public sphere, is one of the core values of our institution," Fitzgerald said in an email to The Ann Arbor News.

"At the same time, the university must and will work vigilantly to ensure students can express diverse ideas and perspectives in a respectful environment and without fear of reprisal. The university values viewpoint diversity and encourages a wide range of opinions."

U-M's anti-discrimination policy states that people affiliated with the university cannot create "...an intimidating, hostile, offensive, or abusive environment for that individual's employment, education, living environment, or participation in a University activity."
http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2014/12/u-m_releases_statement_after_p.html
I figured you'd love that piece Saints. Incidentally, she's received death threats and the title has been changed.

This was my favorite part:

A series of studies has found that political conservatives tend toward certain psychological characteristics. What are they? Dogmatism, rigidity and intolerance
 of ambiguity; a need to avoid uncertainty; support for authoritarianism; a heightened sense of threat from others; and a personal need for structure.
Actually I did notice this:

According to researchers, the two core dimensions of conservative thought are resistance to change and support for inequality.
This could also be translated as being supportive of institutions and defending the right of autonomy, ie personal freedom.

 
The Cuba Archive project (www.cub aarchive.org) has already begun the heavy lifting by attempting to document the loss of life attributable to revolutionary zealotry. The project, ba sed in Chatham, N.J., covers the period from May 1952 -- when the cons titutional government fell to Gen. Fulgencio Batista -- to the present. It has so far verifi ed the names of 9,240 victims of the Castro regime and the circumstances of their deaths. Archive researchers meticulously insist on c onfirming stories of official murder from two inde p endent sources. Cuba Archive President Maria Werlau says the tota l number of victims could be higher by a factor of 10. Project Vice President Armando Lago, a Harvard- trained economist, has spent years studying the cost of the revolution and he estimat es that almost 78,000 innocents may have died trying to flee the dictatorship. Another 5,300 are known to have lost their lives fighting communism in the Escambray Mountains (mostly peasant farmers and their children) and at the Bay of Pigs. An estimated 14,000 C ubans were killed in Fidel's re volutionary adventures abroad, most notably his dispatch of 50,000 soldiers to Angola in the 1980s to help the Soviet-backed regime fight off the Unita insurgency. The archive project can be li kened to the 1999 "Black Book of Communism," which documented the world-wide cost of communism, noting th at "wherever the millenarian ideology of Communism was establis hed it quickly led to crime, te rror and repression." The Castro methodology, Cuba Archive finds, was much like that used in Poland and East Germany, less lethal than Stalin's pur ges, but equally effective in suppressing opposition. In the earliest days of the re volution, summary executions establ ished a culture of fear that quickly eliminated most resist ance. In the decades that foll owed, inhumane prison conditions often leading to death, unspeakable torture a nd privation were enough to keep Cubans cowed. Cuba Archive finds that some 5,600 Cubans have died in front of firing squads and another 1,200 in "extrajudicial assassinations." Che Guevara was a gleeful executioner at the infamous La Cabaña Fortress in 1959 where, und er his orders, at least 151 C ubans were lined up and shot. Children have not been spared. Of the 94 minor s whose deaths have b een documented by Cuba Archive, 22 died by firing squad and 32 in extrajudicial assassinations.
[SIZE=15pt]http://www.cubaarchive.org/downloads/CA22.pdf[/SIZE]
I don't understand your point in posting this. We know that the Cuban government has done some very bad things. Does that mean, in your opinion, that we should never have relations with them?
No, it was a follow-up on the responses further up about atrocities and the sort of things that would require reconciliation or justice.

As I've stated the US has a wonderful way of worming itself into a nation so I can only hope our involvement in their economy and government will help bring the Castro regime down.
Reconciliation is an interesting word. Are you familiar with Nelson Mandela's Truth and Reconciliation Commission? It was an interesting and novel way to handle this sort of issue, and it seems to me that South Africa is better off as a result. Indeed, it might be Mandela's single greatest achievement.
Yes, right, that could happen too. But either way there has to be a transition. In East Germany they opened all the Stassi files. That would be good too.
East Germany is not really a good example for me, because the Germans perceived the Russians as occupiers and their government, and especially the Stasi, as collaborators. That is not how the Cubans perceive the Castro regime.
First of all, the Germans were perceiving it exactly right, but they know it was their own people doing what they did and they held them to account as Germans.

Secondly, the Cubans are not just in Cuba, they are also here. But there are plenty victims in Cuba, they have been spied on just as the Germans were spied on by the Stassi, there ie is an extensive domestic spy network in Cuba. I will add they were also largely puppets of the Soviets.
I don't believe the Castro regime were ever puppets of the Soviets. They received Soviet help (and missiles!) but Castro was never that guy. More like a Tito actually. He was his own Communist from the beginning.
Uh Cuba was heavily dependent on the Soves, when the USSR crashed the Cubans broke out Project X which included emergency options for running out of toilet paper and food. They had grotesque options they offered to their people, but let's not go there.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Are you serious with this thread Tim?

I'm not someone who stalks you, follows you, or even dislikes you. I engage in conversation with you and I could care less about your post frequency too... A thread like this is what annoys me. I'm fairly certain about 1/3 of this board really dislikes me, however if I am going to stop posting or take offense to it bc of any of them, well that makes me a huge #####. Fortunately I am not.

I don't even know why those comments would bother you. I wouldn't sweat it, change the title of this thread to HARD DELETE, and move on.
As someone who is also universally disliked, I want to echo curse here. Be who you are and don't apologize or poll.

 
Op Ed piece from Real Clear Politics yesterday, by a University of Michigan professor- this one ought to get some interesting reaction:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2014/12/17/it039s_okay_to_hate_republicans_347657.html

It's Okay to Hate Republicans

I hate Republicans. I can’t stand the thought of having to spend the next two years watching Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, Ted Cruz, Darrell Issa or any of the legions of other blowhards denying climate change, thwarting immigration reform or championing fetal “personhood.”

This loathing is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back
 in the 1970s, I worked for a Republican, Fred Lippitt, the senate minority leader in Rhode Island, and I loved him. He was a brand of Republican now extinct—a “moderate” who was fiscally conservative but progressive about women’s rights, racial justice and environmental preservation. Had he been closer to my age, I could have contemplated marrying someone like Fred. Today, marrying a Republican is unimaginable to me. And I’m
 not alone. Back in 1960, only 5 
percent of Republicans and 4
 percent of Democrats said they’d
 be “displeased” if their child married someone from the opposite
 party. Today? Forty-nine percent 
of Republicans and 33 percent of
 Democrats would be pissed.

According to a recent study 
by Stanford professor Shanto
 Iyengar and Princeton researcher 
Sean Westwood, such polarization has increased dramatically 
in recent years. What’s noteworthy 
is how entrenched this mutual animus is. It’s fine for me to use the word “hate” when referring to Republicans and for them to use the same word about me, but you would never use the word “hate” when referring to people of color, or women, or gays and lesbians.

And now party identification and hatred shape a whole host of non-political decisions. Iyengar and Westwood asked participants in their study to review the resumés of graduating high school seniors to decide which ones should receive scholarships. Some resumés had cues about party affiliation (say, member of the Young Republicans Club) and some about racial identity (also through extracurricular activities, or via a stereotypical name). Race mattered, but not nearly as much as partisanship. An overwhelming 80 percent of partisans chose the student of their own party. And this held true even if the candidate from the opposite party had better credentials.

How did we come to this pass? Obviously, my tendency is to blame the Republicans more than the Democrats, which may seem biased. But history and psychological research bear me out.

Let’s start with the history. This isn’t like a fight between siblings, where the parent says, “It doesn’t matter who started it.” Yes, it does.

A brief review of Republican rhetoric and strategies since the 1980s shows an escalation of determined vilification (which has been amplified relentlessly on Fox News since 1996). From Spiro Agnew’s attack on intellectuals as an “effete corps of impudent snobs”; to Rush Limbaugh’s hate speech; to the GOP’s endless campaign
to smear the Clintons over Whitewater, then bludgeon Bill over Monica Lewinsky; to the ceaseless denigration of President Obama (“socialist,” “Muslim”), the Republicans have crafted a political identity that rests on a complete repudiation of the idea that the opposing party and its followers have any legitimacy at all.

Why does this work? A series of studies has found that political conservatives tend toward certain psychological characteristics. What are they? Dogmatism, rigidity and intolerance
 of ambiguity; a need to avoid uncertainty; support for authoritarianism; a heightened sense of threat from others; and a personal need for structure. How do these qualities influence political thinking?

According to researchers, the two core dimensions of conservative thought are resistance to change and support for inequality. These, in turn, are core elements of social intolerance. The need for certainty, the need to manage fear of social change, lead to black-and-white thinking and an embrace of stereotypes. Which could certainly lead to a desire to deride those not like you—whether people of color, LGBT people or Democrats. And, especially since the early 1990s, Republican politicians and pundits have been feeding these needs with a single-minded, uncomplicated, good-vs.-evil worldview that vilifies Democrats.

So now we hate them back. And for good reason. Which is too bad. I miss the Fred Lippitts of yore and the civilized discourse and political accomplishments they made possible. And so do millions of totally fed-up Americans.
The good professor seems to have her mind made up about things. I wonder if there was a singular recent event which prompted her missive, or whether this was a general catharsis to something which has been building for a time.

Do we know her areas of academic inquiry? What doe she teach? Has anybody contacted this Fred Lippitts to inform him the professor seems to be bearing a long burning torch for him? She seems to address Mr. Lippitts being in the past tense, is that because she has so moved on he no longer is an entity, or does it mean that he has passed away?

 
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Tim, have you ever addressed how you're able to post so much? Do you have a job? I think if you spoke candidly about this folks would understand you more.

 
Op Ed piece from Real Clear Politics yesterday, by a University of Michigan professor- this one ought to get some interesting reaction:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2014/12/17/it039s_okay_to_hate_republicans_347657.html

It's Okay to Hate Republicans

I hate Republicans. I can’t stand the thought of having to spend the next two years watching Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, Ted Cruz, Darrell Issa or any of the legions of other blowhards denying climate change, thwarting immigration reform or championing fetal “personhood.”

...
The good professor seems to have her mind made up about things. I wonder if there was a singular recent event which prompted her missive, or whether this was a general catharsis to something which has been building for a time.

Do we know her areas of academic inquiry? What doe she teach? Has anybody contacted this Fred Lippitts to inform him the professor seems to be bearing a long burning torch for him? She seems to address Mr. Lippitts being in the past tense, is that because she has so moved on he no longer is an entity, or does it mean that he has passed away?
Susan Douglas
Professor in the Communication departmentat University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI
Very fun material. If you like thinking critically about television, movies, newspaper, and magazines, then this class will be interesting. Susan is pretty famous and is mentioned in many articles/books/documentaries/films we saw in class or that i saw in Comm 102
http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=518359#

When it comes to art and culture, I think that's one place where people should not be conservative. You have to be free thinking, look at things with a totally fresh mind and perspective. Many Conservatives are not even particularly "conservative" when it comes to journalism.

I just don't think people should pen pieces advocating hate or intolerance of anyone, especially not a professor at a university, where intellectual freedom should reign.

 
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Of all the criticisms levied at me, the only one that is 100% wrong is Rockaction. I'm just one guy. The reason he sometimes sees misspelling is that I post a lot from my iPhone and I'm not the best at texting. (Incidentally, this is a large part of why I post so much- I'm often at shopping centers waiting for appointments all day long. My business has several hours each day of waiting around for people to show up- often they never do. Any commercial real estate agent knows what I'm talking about. You know those threads that start out with "I'm stuck here for two hours, ask me anything"? I could start that thread any day of the week.)
bump for Norwood

 
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Gremlins show cases most of the problems with the PG-13 rating.

Used to be just PG and R. You could see a boob in a PG movie. Gremlins is one step removed from Saw and it got a PG rating. A hard R movie was truly meant for adults only.

Now, everything gets shoe-horned into PG-13. Want to drop an F word, that's fine. Want to have all of humanity wiped out? That works too. Have boobs drawn in a 1910 Studebaker? Why not.

Any PG movie with a modicum of spice gets thrown into a PG-13 universe, while movies that should just hard R are lightened up so pimply fourteen year olds can get in.

Look at the top grossing movies of the year. The first R movie clocks in at #16, and that's a chick flick.

 
is it Sco-shay?
The often verbose Tim sco-shaySpawned a thread of his own yesterday

His famed indecision,

oft meet with derision,

instead led to cheers of hooray

If you've never pronounced it Tim socket

You should try it before you knock it

Don't ask Tim 'bout this mystery

Lest he bore you with history

whilst he strokes his unsheathed pocket rocket

A gentleman named Tim sashay

Had so many things left to say

That he made his own residence

for anyone but eminence

(And em thinks this whole thing is gay)

This new thread of Tims O'Shea's

is a place he can cut and paste

Now he can copy right

but the thread has a copyright

belonging to General Malaise

 
Back in 2006, before I joined this forum, I wrote a long speech for President Bush that I wanted him to deliver regarding illegal immigration. I sent it to all my friends at the time. I don't think any of them read it. This speech still represents my best arguments on this issue, so I am going to post it here.

My fellow Americans:

Good evening. Tonight, I come to you to address the issue of illegal immigration. This is a complicated and divisive issue, but I want first to stress that this issue has very little to do with the subject of legal immigration. Legal immigration is something most Americans perceive as a positive good which has done much to build our country. Illegal immigration is something a good number of Americans do not perceive as a positive, for a number of varying reasons. There has never been a recent issue for which there are so many misconceptions. Tonight, I’m going to discuss four separate points: first, all of the misconceptions and why these exist; second, all of the proposed solutions and why most of them as they are currently construed either won’t make any difference or will actually make things worse; third, what the two primary reasons for illegal immigration are; and finally, what are my proposed solutions. So bear with me:

The first misconception is that we are currently doing nothing to prevent illegal immigration. The actual truth is, according to government figures, 1.7 million people attempt to sneak in from our southern border every year. Each year, we send about 1.2 million back, and the other half million get in. The question is: if we increase border control, or if we put up a fence, can we significantly decrease these numbers? I don’t believe so, and I will explain why shortly. But it is important to note that the effort in this direction is already prodigious.

The second misconception is that we need to secure our borders for national security purposes, especially in the wake of 9/11. This argument on it’s face should be ridiculous to any thinking American. There is no way we could ever secure our borders enough to prevent terrorism. Terrorism is not a great army coming to attack us. It has unfortunately been successful in the past because so much damage can be done by such small numbers, such as the 19 men who hijacked the planes. The only way to combat terrorism is through solid intelligence, and acting swiftly upon that intelligence. In the case of 9/11, we had intelligence, but didn’t act properly upon it; the fault for this lies evenly on my administration and the previous administration: quite simply, as in the case of Pearl Harbor, we were psychologically unprepared for such an attack. Hopefully this situation has been rectified. But it has nothing to do with the securing of our borders.

The third misconception is that the problems associated with illegal immigration far outweigh the benefits. We all know the problems: the costs to our schools, our emergency rooms, our police is tremendous. Illegals are the main carriers of narcotics into America. In the border states, the public cost for all this is overwhelming. On the other hand, illegals perform services that legal Americans can’t or won’t perform, for ridiculously low wages that keep our costs low. Imagine, for example, what grocery prices would be if employers paid minimum wage to all the fruit pickers. So there are obvious benefits to the illegals as well. Do they far outwieigh the minuses? Or do the minuses outweigh the positives? This depends on your point of view. I’m going to give my point of view n three parts: first, in no case do the negatives so far outweigh the positives so that illegal immigration is the critical issue that it is often represented to be. It is not, in my opinion, at the core of any of our overall economic problems. Second, in the case of the border states, (California, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas), the negatives of illegal immigration generally outweigh the positives because of the high economic costs to those states. Third, in the case of all other states not on the Mexican border, the positives of illegal immigration generally outweigh the negative, as the economic costs to these states is minor (although it is growing, as illegals migrate to the Northeast and South.)

The next misconception is that this is an issue of our sovereignty, and that the growing Hispanic population in the southwest as a result of illegals will change the demographics so significantly in the next few decades that these areas will belong more to Mexico than to the United States. The people who argue this are mostly nativist by nature, and they are quick to complain about parts of cities where every storefront is written in Spanish. While the arguments against the high economic costs are perfectly legitimate, these arguments are not. The Hispanics that come to America, whether legally or illegally, even though they bring their culture with them, desire overwhelmingly to be Americans and to be treated as Americans. To complain about their culture is quite simply, a bigoted attitude and should be condemned.

The final misconception is that the politicians interest in this matter is the same as yours. As in most cases, the majority of politicians care only about increasing their own power base and avoiding any controversy. The Republicans are split into two camps. The populist Republicans are anxious to please their base by advocating draconian solutions: no amnesty, build a fence, fine employers, deport who you can. They are safe to propose these because they know they can shout loud and be angry and gain popular support, while they also know that most of their views will never be enacted. The big business Republicans offer symbolic tightening of the border, and call for Amnesty or guest worker programs (basically the same thing) and ignore the Republican base, figuring on the old Nixonian formula that in the end, the base has nowhere to go but to vote for them. The democrats are delighted to see this rift in the Republicans, and offer no solutions to this issue, except to criticize any Republican idea. They believe that the end result of this issue will be a vast majority of Hispanic voters as a solid Democrat bloc. (and they might be right.) Somehow, amidst these flawed motivations, we’ve got to find a solution that truly benefits the American people.

So what are the proposed solutions? More people at the border? I was going to suggest 6,000 National Guardsmen, but in the end I changed my mind because such a small number is so symbolic and ludicrous, given the size of the border, that I was afraid I’d be considered a laughingstock. But suppose I suggested 30,000 more people at the border? This would win me my base back, and probably the support of the majority of Americans, but would such a simplistic solution solve the problem? I don’t believe it would, and I’ll explain why below. How about a fence along the border? What effect would this have on our relations with Mexico? A disastrous effect in my mind. But would it be worth that, if it would succeed in stopping the flow of illegals? No it would not. The result of a fence would be to effectively make us an adversary of Mexico, which would be a far greater disaster than the illegals represent. Unfortunately, there are no securing the border proposals that would have any positive effect on this issue.

What about the illegals already here? I was going to suggest a guest worker program. The critics in the Republican base see this as nothing but amnesty, and they are correct. It’s amnesty because I have no method of deporting these people. It’s also an insult to those people that get their citizenship legally. Why should the illegals get to cut in line? Also, can you imagine the huge bureaucracy that a guest worker program would cause? And you have to be naïve to believe that any of these people are going to go home after 3 or 6 years? It’s a ridiculous idea.

On the other hand, we can’t seriously consider deporting these people either. Do you realize how much money that would cost? And I don’t believe Americans would put up with the rounding up of thousands of people. We are not Nazis. Despite the fact that these people committed an illegal act by entering our country, they are not truly criminals for that action alone.

What about fining employers for hiring illegals? This appeals to our sense of justice, but what would it truly accomplish? It would increase the black market for fake identification. (For that matter, any national id card would result in the same thing.) It would be impossible to prove that the employer knew for sure the ids were fake. And again the bureaucratic costs in such a program would be overwhelming.

How about just ignoring the problem, opening up our borders? Unacceptable. The border states simply cannot afford the cost, and in the end, the whole nation won’t be able to afford it. Although this issue is not currently the crisis many believe it to be, it will eventually become one, and we have to act now to resolve it.

So I know what you’re thinking: I sound like a democrat, criticizing every proposed solution without coming up with any of my own. Touche! But the truth is, I do have solutions, both short range and long range, but before I can come up with them, we have to come to grips with the actual causes for illegal immigration. Although there are too many small contributors to this issue that I don’t have time to state, there are basically two overwhelming reasons for illegal immigration: price fixing and the economic and political situation in Mexico.

I am a capitalist and here is a simple rule of capitalism: you cannot fix prices, you cannot have tariffs, you cannot have fixed wages that do not represent market needs without creating a black market for the goods and services you have fixed. This was true in the Soviet Union and it’s true here. If you insist on high union wages for a factory in Detroit for example, that factory will simply relocate in India where they don’t have to pay as much. If you put up tariffs on foreign goods in order to protect American industry, it’s the same as taxing the American consumer, and while this might work in the short run, in the end the result will be the same: decreased sales and a black market. Minimum wage is nothing more than a tariff placed upon the cost of labor in order to protect the laborer, but the result is a black market in laborers- hence illegal immigrants. It’s not only that they perform work Americans aren’t doing, they work for less, and this one of the two main reasons they are here.

Mexico is the other reason. Some basic statistics: there is 40% unemployment in Mexico. 45% of the population live below the poverty line. (As a comparison, during the worst economic period in our history, the Great Depression, our unemployment was no higher than 30% at any time.) 8% of the population owns 90% of all the wealth. The government is completely corrupt. The only serious opposition to the current crop of corrupt leaders is a growing leftist movement, along the lines of Venezuela, that blames the U.S. for all of their woes.

And in point of fact, we are partly to blame. For the last 100 years we propped up one corrupt government after another, and ignored their poverty program, even though it is an issue of vital national security for the U.S.A. that Mexico be a stable and wealthy nation. We did this because of the short-sightedness and greed of certain big businesses in America. But we’re not solely to blame- Mexico must take a large share of responsibility for it’s own woes.

Until both of these problems are resolved in some way, illegal immigration will continue, no matter how much security you have at the border, which is why an extra 6,000 or 60,000 troops won’t matter. Again you could prevent illegals with a fence (or with 150,000 troops) but that would surely result in the leftists taking power in Mexico and an adversarial relationship with that countery which would in the long run be a much worst disaster for the U.S.A.

What then, are the solutions to this problem?

Short-term solutions:

  1. Distribute the high costs in the border states among all of the states. If we’re all going to partake in the benefits from illegals, we’ve all got to absorb the costs. Border states dealing with illegal costs to schools, hospitals, jails, etc, should be able to apply to a federal fund pooled from all the states.
  2. Streamline the current border patrol system. Perhaps we can tighten up the border by simply being more efficient. If we need to spend more money for border patrols, so be it. But this has to be kept low-key, so that we don’t antagonize Mexico. Perhaps we can quietly make significant reductions in the number of illegals.
  3. Don’t deport, don’t give amnesty, don’t have a guest worker program. Illegals should not be kicked out, but they should not be given full citizenship either. This would protect the rights of our legitimate new citizens, and not give these people something they don’t deserve. It would also avoid a new bureaucracy.
Long term solutions:

  1. Remove minimum wages, tariffs, price fixings. Try and revert to a more fully capitalistic society. This can’t be done immediately or it will be too disruptive to our economy. It has to be done overtime, as part of a long program. Reductions in spending will have to be part of the program. (As an additional point, if it’s too hard for these politicians to cut spending, let’s at least try to avoid increasing spending!! The only way to insure this is a divided government. If you have a republican president, vote for democrats for congress. If you have a democrat president, vote for republicans in congress. This is the only way to create gridlock and stop spending. Don’t believe in slogans, if you have one party in charge of the House, the Senate, and the Presidency, that party, be it republican or democrat, will increase spending; they won’t be able to help themselves.)
  2. We need to solve Mexico. How to do this is a problem for which I don’t have an immediate solution, but it must be done. Throwing money at the Mexican government will do little more than solidify the existing corruption. What we want is a prosperous Mexico with a large middle class and room for advancement, where its people won’t seek to emigrate. This again is a long term plan, but it must be done.
As a final note, we have much bigger problems in America: the future of our energy supply, for one. In bad economic times, the illegals provide a convenient scapegoat for our problems. If the economy gets worse, the scapegoating will only increase, and it will get even more difficult to avoid more draconian solutions to this problem. We need to try to avoid this at all costs.

Thank you, and good night.

 
Of all the criticisms levied at me, the only one that is 100% wrong is Rockaction. I'm just one guy. The reason he sometimes sees misspelling is that I post a lot from my iPhone and I'm not the best at texting. (Incidentally, this is a large part of why I post so much- I'm often at shopping centers waiting for appointments all day long. My business has several hours each day of waiting around for people to show up- often they never do. Any commercial real estate agent knows what I'm talking about. You know those threads that start out with "I'm stuck here for two hours, ask me anything"? I could start that thread any day of the week.)
bump for Norwood
:thumbup:

Because god knows I don't have time to sift through all these posts

 
Some thoughts on Cuba:

The main complaint, mostly made by Cuban-American politicians and a few hard line conservatives like Sean Hannity, seems to be that we are doing nothing to address the human rights violations that the Cuban government has committed, and we are in effect rewarding the dictatorship and we will help make them rich as they control virtually all of Cuba's land and industry. Both statements are largely true. But I think they are short sided.

The first thing that people have to realize (and sadly they never do) is that it is impossible to do justice to past crimes. We cannot give blacks back the time their ancestors suffered in slavery, we cannot stop the Holocaust from happening 70 years after it happened, we can't give back to the Palestinians the land they lost in 1948. History moves on. The Cuban people suffered greatly under Castro, but there's nothing we can do about that now. We can't undo the regime and create a democracy there. We've tried for 50 years and failed.

...
This is an interesting premise. Do you mean only in the context of foreign relations? Isn't it true that all crimes occurred in the past? Can there never be justice for them?
Cambodia has prosecuted the Khmer Rouge, Germany is still (like right now) prosecuting concentration camp guards, on and on, oh yes there can be justice.
Not really. They've prosecuted a few of the high ranking guys only. For instance Hun Sen was once fairly high in Khmer Rouge - not prosecuted. IIRC he is the prime minister (or life or so).

ETA: The examples you list are domestic court cases. What does American foreign policy have to do with German domestic court cases?

If you want to try the Castro brothers your best analogy would be that Spanish judge that went after Pinochet. He unfortunately having less success with going after Franco's boys
Well my thought is that if all goes well we restore democracy and property owners get their property back and those who committed atrocities are brought to justice. If the USA can do what it can to help promote an environment where that can happen - by pushing our culture, demanding freedom and human rights, by getting our corporations and business in there, by getting Cuban and American travel freed there, by demanding free elections - then that would be great. Restoring normal relations could help with that process, but I would hope we actually do that once we get our foot in the door.
Dude, YOU don't restore anything. The Cuban people will. Eventually.

Look at the South American military dictatorships. It takes 25-40 years before the generals are sufficiently removed from power to begin the legal rocedings

 
This speech still represents my best arguments on this issue, so I am going to post it here.
Tim, did you ever figure it out?
Figure what out?

Actually, as I re-read that speech, my view has become more radical over time. I am now in favor of a full blown amnesty for all illegal immigrants, and a path to citizenship. I am also in favor of open immigration.

But despite that, the speech makes pretty good arguments, I think.

 

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