McGarnicle
Footballguy
Good god what a bunch of idiots.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Tom Brady ONCE AGAIN suspended 4 games (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
Pointed out earlier that the fine pays itself plus change because they don't pay Brady his salary for those 4 games.
doesn't fine money go toward some charity fund?Pointed out earlier that the fine pays itself plus change because they don't pay Brady his salary for those 4 games.
GregR
Footballguy
Yes, it goes to charity.doesn't fine money go toward some charity fund?Pointed out earlier that the fine pays itself plus change because they don't pay Brady his salary for those 4 games.
There is no assurance the gofund thing will ever be given to the Patriots. Probably some Jets fan sitting back and laughing as he watches people send him money.
Brony
Footballguy
GrandpaRox
Footballguy
I challenge your legitimacy as sentient human being.
As a Texans fan I am jealous of the whole Patriots organization and success.
What crappy team do you follow?
All teams try to gain an advantage, I think the punishment on Brady was too strict for "assumptions" and no proof. If I were the equipment manager and I knew Brady liked softer footballs, he would not have to text or email me. It would be a done deal automatically.
I would not give anyone my texts or emails just like 99.9% of anyone here.
And damn he is one handsome dude and he has a supermodel for a wife, I doubt he cares what we think of him.
Haters are typically jealous of someones success anyway.
timschochet
Footballguy
Good! It's nice to see somebody get upset over a real issue for once rather than police shooting black people or poverty or any of that crap.
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
User Actions
Follow
Lisa Kraus Edwards@LAKEdwards#Patriots fans taken to Central Booking in New York City. They will be kept overnight for their stunt in #NFL lobby.
squistion
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Haven't read the whole thread yet so don't know if anyone else pointed it out, but Goodell had to turn over his cell phone for the Ray Rice investigation (as did everyone else involved and apparently no one refused).
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Reading the responses, and meme's on Facebook, FFA, Shark Pool and other places has been very entertaining. I can't wait for the appeal to be heard, because regardless of the outcome, some fans are going to go crazy and try to break the Internet.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
That went bad real quick. Locked up and wit ha bunch of Giants and Jets fans. Great move guys.User Actions
Follow
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/12874836/new-york-jets-fans-use-billboards-take-shot-new-england-patriots-quarterback-tom-brady
Jets fans on Patriots quarterback: Just call him 'Tom Shady'
If you can't beat 'em, mock 'em.
An anonymous group of New York Jets fans, delighting in Tom Brady's four-game suspension for his role in Deflategate, took a not-so-subtle shot at the Patriots' quarterback by purchasing space on 12 electronic billboards in northern New Jersey.
The big green message reads:
#TomShady
It's accompanied by the famous team cheer:
J-E-T-S Jets! Jets! Jets!
The billboards appear along highways and toll plazas within a few miles of MetLife Stadium.
The Jets haven't made any public statements regarding the New England Patriots' sanctions, but they're obviously enjoying the moment
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Allegedly the Jets pocketed $ 377,500 from DoD to pay tribute to military vets. This seems far more egregious than manipulating ball pressure.
Last edited by a moderator:
otello
Footballguy
Typical Broncos Fan @TypBroncosFan 3h3 hours ago
Question for all female #Pats fans: If you ask to see your man's phone and he firmly says no, what's your first thought? Exactly. #TomShady
Question for all female #Pats fans: If you ask to see your man's phone and he firmly says no, what's your first thought? Exactly. #TomShady
squistion
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
I was directing my ire at the Jets, not the troops. Hopefully you can go back and figure this out, but if you like, I can you send a boilerplate hourly-rate consulting agreement and help get you up to speed.Why do you hate the troops?
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Got it. Thanks. So these guys were just really careless and used company phones which of course the Patriots would be obligated to turn over in this type of investigation.
mquinnjr
Footballguy
McGarnicle
Footballguy
I just figured out why Pats fans are so in denial...the punishment in itself is really pocket change to that organization, and absolutely a slap on the wrist considering they are repeat offenders. The fans hate having this stink of cheating attached to their team's legacy. They hear the claims of fraud and illegitimacy attached to Spygate, and they know the impact that a second incident is going to have. Can't blame fans for being passionate for their team, but the evidence is crystal clear and there's no choice but to just accept it and move on. And anyone suggesting there's an asterisk or any chance of this significantly diminishing Brady's legacy are equally delusional. The haters will use this as fodder, but anyone else who is objective won't give it much weight.
It's a blatant and planned infraction of the rules. Not a HUGE one, and probably not one that affected results of games, but definitely a ding on the league's image of integrity between the lines. And if you don't have (perceived) integrity within the actual sport on the field, you risk becoming a punch line like pro wrestling. We're talking about an infraction against the NFL brand itself, at a time when their reputation is already suffering. You can't be paying attention and believe something like this is going to go unpunished.
It's a blatant and planned infraction of the rules. Not a HUGE one, and probably not one that affected results of games, but definitely a ding on the league's image of integrity between the lines. And if you don't have (perceived) integrity within the actual sport on the field, you risk becoming a punch line like pro wrestling. We're talking about an infraction against the NFL brand itself, at a time when their reputation is already suffering. You can't be paying attention and believe something like this is going to go unpunished.
TheAristocrat
Footballguy
Can anyone tell me at what point Marinos' balls needed to be rubbed or prepared properly before they were game ready?
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Dan didn't give two ####s about the balls provided he had a couple of lines before the game
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Really doesn't bother me at all. Actually this might bother me more if SpyGate hadn't happened, but it became obvious from the reaction to that "scandal" that people will take anything to the extreme with the Patriots. Neither SpyGate or Deflategate have a measureable impact on the game, nobody really even argues that it does. By the public reaction, you'd think Brady killed JFK. That tells you all you need to know.
I get it - the Patriots have spanked the league and been ########s about it for a decade and a half.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
There are degrees of cheating which is why I think some fans are so in denial. If one were to make a baseball analogy, Deflategate is like a pitcher using pine tar, whereas Spygate was a much more serious infraction even though the league let the Pats off easy on that one. And that's the underlying issue. The league continues to arbitrarily dish out punishment and enforce rules based on public backlash and media coverage instead of the actual infraction. The punishments should not be make up calls for getting it wrong in the past.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
For Spygate, there are a lot of people including former players that have argued it had a measurable impact. It completely undermined the integrity of the game and the league. It's like having a camera to see your opponents cards in poker. Of course it gave them an unfair advantage, much more than slightly deflating a game ball.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
You have no idea what SpyGate was about. Nobody has ever alleged that the video taping was used to create an in-game advantage. Goodell specifically said it wasn't used during games when he dropped the hammer on them. Mangini said it wasn't used as an in-game advantage. Bill Cowher said it gave no advantage. It is not at all like being able to see your opponent's cards in poker - that's a completely absurd comparison.
SpyGate was about videotaping defensive signals from your own sideline. Videotaping signals is not illegal - but doing so from your own sideline is. The NFL issued a warning telling teams to not do it. Belichick continued to do it. Goodell dropped the hammer on him for basically defying a league mandate, which is fair enough.
But at no point has anyone with actual knowledge of what went on seriously contend that it was somehow used as an ingame advantage. People who say that just like to post about asterics and whatnot - which is fair enough, the Patriots have earned getting crap like that, but it's not based in reality.
GrandpaRox
Footballguy
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
I know exactly what Goodell said Spygate was about. I just don't choose to blindly believe that the scope of that cheating scandal was limited to what the NFL reported. But neither you nor I will ever have complete knowledge of what actually went on because the NFL destroyed the tapes. As for nobody ever alleging it gave the Pats an advantage, that's also false. There is a long list, including HOF players like Marshall Faulk and HOF coaches like Don Shula.
Last edited by a moderator:
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
Tom Brady is a legend. He not only makes Patriots fans happy, he can make Pats Haters happy too.
GregR
Footballguy
Sure they got a game advantage. It created an in game advantage the next time that they played, in that they know what their previous signaling scheme is so if any of it is repeated, they are a leg up. For teams who don't use a wrist cheat sheet for each player, I don't imagine it's easy to come up with 16 unique signaling schemes every season and have your players remember, so I'd be surprised if there isn't reuse of signals where it could help.
What the Patriots said is that taping going on in a game currently underway didn't create an advantage in that game that was underway. Because they didn't digest the info in time to use it immediately.
If the Patriots didn't think it gave them an advantage in their games they wouldn't have done it.
Sweet J
Footballguy
OK, I haven't read the report, but I heard Wells interviewed this morning. Maybe someone can clarify for me:
Wells said that a big factor in his decision was the fact that one of the text messages from the equipment guy, he called himself "the Deflator."
So my questions:
1) Isn't it perfectly ok for the equipment guy to deflate the balls (hence, the "Deflator" name), as long as he was deflating them within the spectrum that is allowable? So, deflating the balls from 14 psi to 12:5 psi. Basically, if Tom wanted the balls deflated to JUST within the limits. So I don't see how this text on its own proves anything. Are there other texts that haven't been reported or I haven't seen?
2) When I think about handing over the phone, I think back to the Richie Incognito thing. He handed over his phone, only to see horribly, horribly embarrassing texts broadcast to all of the free world. When he handed over his phone, did he know that the contents of ALL of his texts would be publicized? So, let's say Tom was texting girls not named Giselle, or he was texting buddies ragging on Bellechic or Kraft or even teamates. Did Brady have any guarantee that those wouldn't be broadcast to the known world?
Wells said that a big factor in his decision was the fact that one of the text messages from the equipment guy, he called himself "the Deflator."
So my questions:
1) Isn't it perfectly ok for the equipment guy to deflate the balls (hence, the "Deflator" name), as long as he was deflating them within the spectrum that is allowable? So, deflating the balls from 14 psi to 12:5 psi. Basically, if Tom wanted the balls deflated to JUST within the limits. So I don't see how this text on its own proves anything. Are there other texts that haven't been reported or I haven't seen?
2) When I think about handing over the phone, I think back to the Richie Incognito thing. He handed over his phone, only to see horribly, horribly embarrassing texts broadcast to all of the free world. When he handed over his phone, did he know that the contents of ALL of his texts would be publicized? So, let's say Tom was texting girls not named Giselle, or he was texting buddies ragging on Bellechic or Kraft or even teamates. Did Brady have any guarantee that those wouldn't be broadcast to the known world?
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Good points. I just don't see handing a phone over to anyone nowadays. There is so much personal info on a phone these days, from pictures to credit card info to banking info. No way anyone should hand over their phone.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
If Spygate didn't give the Pats an advantage then why were they doing it?
jonessed
Footballguy
1. Certainly not after they were checked by the refs.2. The league guaranteed it and I believe they gave Tom and his agent some flexibility on how they would like it done. If I was cheating on my wife though I'm not sure that would have mattered.
Last edited by a moderator:
Koya
Footballguy
Nice try. While in the grand scheme of things you are right, in terms of putting into question the legitimacy of the game, you are way, way off.Mister CIA said:
Guys do far worse things off the field than Pete Rose did - but Rose called into question the very integrity of the game.
As the Pats have called into question not only their integrity (which is apparently none), but that of their "victories"
Sweet J
Footballguy
Now, a perfectly acceptable compromise, if I was Wells, would be to say: "OK, Tom, I get it. But I need to get to some truth. Why don't you come in here, and we will look through your phone records together. You get to keep everything in your hand (destroy copies, etc. etc.), and I'll be the only person who lays eyes on them. That way it serves your need for privacy and it serves my need to get to the truth."
For the life of me, I don't know how this got so effed up. Actually, I do know: Both sides have HUGE egos. Which gets in the way of collaboration. So Brady looks bad, and Wells looks bad. (Which is probably the result we should have.)
Koya
Footballguy
FWIW,
While it does make Tom look more guilty (cause he is folks, come on, use your noggins) by not handing over the phone, no way if I am him I do it. Let all of his texts to his gfs (or bfs) come out in public? Or worse yet, him getting repeatedly castrated by his wife, who has him on a leash?
No, freakin, way.
Plus, he would have been proven to have cheated, even though we know he has anyway. It's what the Pats do.
Cheating - It's the Patriot Way.
While it does make Tom look more guilty (cause he is folks, come on, use your noggins) by not handing over the phone, no way if I am him I do it. Let all of his texts to his gfs (or bfs) come out in public? Or worse yet, him getting repeatedly castrated by his wife, who has him on a leash?
No, freakin, way.
Plus, he would have been proven to have cheated, even though we know he has anyway. It's what the Pats do.
Cheating - It's the Patriot Way.
Sweet J
Footballguy
1. Agreed. Depends on the timing.
2. Also agreed that, depending on what was on the phone, no amount of "guarantees" would have made me give up my phone (minus some sort of arrangement where we reviewed paper copies of my texts together, those copies never left my sight, and I destroyed them immediately afterwards.). It's not clear to me who was more of a tool -- Brady or Wells. But the fact that this couldn't get done make me think that one of them was.
squistion
Footballguy
Wells did not want to see Brady's phone or all of his messages. Told the agent Yee that he (Yee) could go through the phone records and then only had to provide those that were relevant to the investigation and that he would trust that the agent would turn over all that was relevant. There was no danger that of Tom's personal calls/texts would be seen by Wells, let alone the public.
Sweet J
Footballguy
Read that somewhere the other day. Was wondering if it was true. If so, makes Brady look pretty bad.
Koya
Footballguy
Huh? How do you trust the investigatee to just give the smoking gun to the investigator?
Similar threads
