Tush Push - still legal, Philly fans begin to heal after rough year (14 Viewers)

[Faust]

Jalen Hurts, Eagles soaring with 'tush push'

 

[Terpman22]

Jalen Hurts, Eagles soaring with 'tush push'

OH?


The play is a glorified sneak where the quarterback is pushed forward by teammates lined up behind him. It has been wildly successful for the Eagles since they made it a regular part of their offense in 2022. They have run it 37 times in the regular season, per ESPN Stats & Information, and have gotten a first down or scored a touchdown on 34 of those attempts for a success rate of 92%.

Other teams are following suit -- there have been 36 attempts through four weeks, up from five at this point in 2022 -- with mixed results. Four teams are 0-for-1, but the overall success rate is 81%.

 

[Amused to Death]

Other teams are following suit -- there have been 36 attempts through four weeks, up from five at this point in 2022 -- with mixed results. Four teams are 0-for-1, but the overall success rate is 81%.

And the way I read that stat, the 81% overall success rate includes the Eagles. I'd love to see what it is if you take the Eagles attempts out.

 

[Terpman22]

Other teams are following suit -- there have been 36 attempts through four weeks, up from five at this point in 2022 -- with mixed results. Four teams are 0-for-1, but the overall success rate is 81%.

And the way I read that stat, the 81% overall success rate includes the Eagles. I'd love to see what it is if you take the Eagles attempts out.

Yeah. Its a good article, basically laying out what us Eagles fans have been saying, and sometimes talking to a brick wall to people here.

"The fact that not all teams have taken advantage as successfully as the Eagles strengthens the argument that the play is less about the push and more about the men attached to the tush."

 

[Amused to Death]

What We Learned About Quarterback Push Sneaks During the 2022 NFL Season​

To better understand and define the impact of push sneaks, the NFL reviewed sneaks of all kinds using film from the 2017 through 2022 seasons.

<snip>

Overall, success rates were similar for both push and traditional sneaks, with push sneaks slightly more effective from near the offense’s own goal line. However, success rates are not consistent for all with high push sneak rate teams (Buffalo Bills, Cleveland Browns, Dallas Cowboys, Indianapolis Colts, and Philadelphia Eagles) ahead of the pack in terms of efficiency on both traditional and push sneaks.

In terms of the players doing the pushing, approximately 45% of all pushers were running backs, 25% tight ends, 15% wide receivers and 11% fullbacks (up to three players on any given play can be considered a pusher). Miles Sanders was the leader with 18 “push assists” over the study period.

The majority of sneaks not from the offense’s own goal line occurred on third/fourth down or the opponent’s goal line. Additionally, on plays where the QB jumps over the line of scrimmage (in all areas of the field), the success rate is 79%.

In summary, the NFL reviewed video and Next Gen Stats of thousands of plays to check for the presence and type of QB sneaks. While push sneaks have increased in frequency over the last two years, they do not appear to be more effective than traditional sneaks at gaining the offense a first down.

 

[brettdj]

HS they can push the blockers, but not the runner. We called a helping the runner last Friday night.
Of my four HS games this season, we have called the penalty twice.

@brettdj , do your high schools use Interscholastic or NCAA rules? Was wondering if the rules regard pushing were similar in both rule sets.

NCAA changed the rule in 2006, after the Bush Push. The removed push from 9-3-2b The ball carrier shall not grasp a teammate; and no other teammate shall grasp, pull, or lift the ball carrier to assist in forward progress.

NFHS (Interscholastic) has push included in their wording of similar rule. From NFHS website section on points of emphasis this season "Pushing the pile is legal; direct contact and pushing, pulling, lifting of the runner is not"

 

[Amused to Death]

NFHS (Interscholastic) has push included in their wording of similar rule. From NFHS website section on points of emphasis this season "Pushing the pile is legal; direct contact and pushing, pulling, lifting of the runner is not"

Is this limited to the QB or any ball carrier, anywhere on the field?

 

[BassNBrew]

Justin Fields must squat 600 lbs to get that Tush Push 1st down mid 1st quarter.

Also, loved how the two officials each had the play marked vastly different (a yard+ difference). One was a 1st down, one had it short. 1st down!!

Yeah...officials don't stand a chance with that mass of humanity around the ball.

How is it worse than any other typical short-yardage play? If there was no pushing, would it be any better?

You're adding more bodies to the pile which is going to further hinder the refs line of sight. It's like watching a car coasting into a tunnel and trying to say where it comes to rest. The spotting of the football has always been one of my least favorite parts of the sport. Just not a fan of encouraging more plays like that. As a Hurts owner, I'm a huge fan of more points.

 

[Deamon]

Justin Fields must squat 600 lbs to get that Tush Push 1st down mid 1st quarter.

Another one for the Commanders. Well done, brilliant!!

This cannot be true

I’ve read over and over on this board that “Only the eagles can make this work because THEYRE THE BEST AT EVERYTHING!!!”

Show me this exact quote by anyone. There is no one saying "Only the Eagles can execute it"

Its us saying we execute it better than literally the rest of the entire league. There were 3 examples of this failing miserably last Sunday and the Giants crap attempt on Thursday.

No one said that. He will literally find any way remotely possible to make a post about Eagles fans.

 

[Amused to Death]

Justin Fields must squat 600 lbs to get that Tush Push 1st down mid 1st quarter.

Also, loved how the two officials each had the play marked vastly different (a yard+ difference). One was a 1st down, one had it short. 1st down!!

Yeah...officials don't stand a chance with that mass of humanity around the ball.

How is it worse than any other typical short-yardage play? If there was no pushing, would it be any better?

You're adding more bodies to the pile which is going to further hinder the refs line of sight. It's like watching a car coasting into a tunnel and trying to say where it comes to rest. The spotting of the football has always been one of my least favorite parts of the sport. Just not a fan of encouraging more plays like that. As a Hurts owner, I'm a huge fan of more points.

But if instead of pushing the QB those same players were engaged with a defender we'd have no clearer view of the ball correct? I don't think the refs would get a better view if it was the same short yardage situation but with the QB handing off Derrick Henry with 8 yards of momentum slamming into the same pile of bodies. There just seems to be a lot of pearl-clutching over this one play that really is no different from any other play we see on the field on any given Sunday. We see ball carriers getting pushed elsewhere on the field, we still have short yardage plays with a massive pile of O- and D-linemen and an RB slamming into it (which to me seems far more likely to cause an injury). And the stats show league-wide the success rate is in line with any other QB sneak.

 

[Deamon]

Jalen Hurts, Eagles soaring with 'tush push'

OH?


The play is a glorified sneak where the quarterback is pushed forward by teammates lined up behind him. It has been wildly successful for the Eagles since they made it a regular part of their offense in 2022. They have run it 37 times in the regular season, per ESPN Stats & Information, and have gotten a first down or scored a touchdown on 34 of those attempts for a success rate of 92%.

Other teams are following suit -- there have been 36 attempts through four weeks, up from five at this point in 2022 -- with mixed results. Four teams are 0-for-1, but the overall success rate is 81%.

Ya, those are pretty staggering numbers. I'm not sure why the "only the Eagles can do it well" debate is a thing though? Not sure why "another team did it and it worked" is a point AGAINST allowing the play.

 

[Deamon]

And the stats show league-wide the success rate is in line with any other QB sneak.

Exactly. This is so similar to a QB sneak and it shocks me how much people are acting like they are SO different. There's no crazy big increase in injury risk, success rate, etc. from a guy pushing the QB sneak QB from behind than if he doesn't.

Those who are using the "cheating", "not football", "injury risk" arguments, should be almost equally against a regular QB sneak.

 

[Chaka]

This play sucks. Teams should interpretive dance at each other for first downs.

 

[Terpman22]

This play sucks. Teams should interpretive dance at each other for first downs.

Thats' fine, its your opinion. I think a QB just tossing the ball out of bounds when a defender has him in his grasp, an inch before the QB's knee touches the ground sucks more. There are a lot of plays in the NFL that "suck"

Take the good w the bad. Its still a fun game to watch.

 

[Chaka]

This play sucks. Teams should interpretive dance at each other for first downs.

Thats' fine, its your opinion. I think a QB just tossing the ball out of bounds when a defender has him in his grasp, an inch before the QB's knee touches the ground sucks more. There are a lot of plays in the NFL that "suck"

Take the good w the bad. Its still a fun game to watch.

 

[modogg]

Other teams are following suit -- there have been 36 attempts through four weeks, up from five at this point in 2022 -- with mixed results. Four teams are 0-for-1, but the overall success rate is 81%.

And the way I read that stat, the 81% overall success rate includes the Eagles. I'd love to see what it is if you take the Eagles attempts out.

they had the numbers on the latest New Heights episode. i believe it was something like 49 out of 73 for 67%. Eagles are 10 for 11 at 91%

 

[Cowboysfan8]

The Bears doing it twice (and making it easily) with Fields at the helm let me know it wasn't just the All-Pro offensive line and Hurts. That was easy peasy last night.

Let’s see Zach Wilson do it I say.

BRO CANT SQUAT 600!!!!

 

[Rubi]

Mark Sanchez tried it once.
He even had a running start.
In fact that was where the term "Tush Push" started. Sort of.

 

[need2know]

Only 2 more days to see it again. Can't wait

 

[unckeyherb]

Kelce interview recently talked about it and he said that they (Eagles starters and backups) practice it fully and he was pretty sure that most of the other teams don't. He mentioned specifically a team (not the Giants) that he knew for a fact from one of the Oline guys, that they ran it and failed after never running it in practice once. He also mentioned that in the offseason they brought in a Rugby coach to help teach them how to move a scrum.

So its not just that Jalen can squat 4000# but they are one of the few teams that actually practice it and they have rugby consultants on the payroll helping with this play.

 

[Moonlight]

Kelce interview recently talked about it and he said that they (Eagles starters and backups) practice it fully and he was pretty sure that most of the other teams don't. He mentioned specifically a team (not the Giants) that he knew for a fact from one of the Oline guys, that they ran it and failed after never running it in practice once. He also mentioned that in the offseason they brought in a Rugby coach to help teach them how to move a scrum.

So its not just that Jalen can squat 4000# but they are one of the few teams that actually practice it and they have rugby consultants on the payroll helping with this play.

Rugby coach and consultant and practicing a scrum.

But we’ve been repeatedly lectured by the enlightened that its not a rugby play.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Kelce interview recently talked about it and he said that they (Eagles starters and backups) practice it fully and he was pretty sure that most of the other teams don't. He mentioned specifically a team (not the Giants) that he knew for a fact from one of the Oline guys, that they ran it and failed after never running it in practice once. He also mentioned that in the offseason they brought in a Rugby coach to help teach them how to move a scrum.

So its not just that Jalen can squat 4000# but they are one of the few teams that actually practice it and they have rugby consultants on the payroll helping with this play.

Rugby coach and consultant and practicing a scrum.

But we’ve been repeatedly lectured by the enlightened that it’s not a rugby play.

 

[Ilov80s]

Kelce interview recently talked about it and he said that they (Eagles starters and backups) practice it fully and he was pretty sure that most of the other teams don't. He mentioned specifically a team (not the Giants) that he knew for a fact from one of the Oline guys, that they ran it and failed after never running it in practice once. He also mentioned that in the offseason they brought in a Rugby coach to help teach them how to move a scrum.

So its not just that Jalen can squat 4000# but they are one of the few teams that actually practice it and they have rugby consultants on the payroll helping with this play.

I think it's a legit play. People are big mad because the Eagles practice it and have a player who is especially strong? Like what kind of argument is that?

 

[brettdj]

NFHS (Interscholastic) has push included in their wording of similar rule. From NFHS website section on points of emphasis this season "Pushing the pile is legal; direct contact and pushing, pulling, lifting of the runner is not"

Is this limited to the QB or any ball carrier, anywhere on the field?

Any ball carrier, anywhere on the field. We have called two for pushing the QB on the sneak type play.

 

[JohnnyU]

I would think the Colts could be good at this. Anyone know if they have used it?

 

[Terpman22]

Kelce interview recently talked about it and he said that they (Eagles starters and backups) practice it fully and he was pretty sure that most of the other teams don't. He mentioned specifically a team (not the Giants) that he knew for a fact from one of the Oline guys, that they ran it and failed after never running it in practice once. He also mentioned that in the offseason they brought in a Rugby coach to help teach them how to move a scrum.

So its not just that Jalen can squat 4000# but they are one of the few teams that actually practice it and they have rugby consultants on the payroll helping with this play.

Rugby coach and consultant and practicing a scrum.

But we’ve been repeatedly lectured by the enlightened that its not a rugby play.

Wide receivers often practice hand eye coordination catching tennis balls.

Football is just like tennis!

 

[Terpman22]

Kelce interview recently talked about it and he said that they (Eagles starters and backups) practice it fully and he was pretty sure that most of the other teams don't. He mentioned specifically a team (not the Giants) that he knew for a fact from one of the Oline guys, that they ran it and failed after never running it in practice once. He also mentioned that in the offseason they brought in a Rugby coach to help teach them how to move a scrum.

So its not just that Jalen can squat 4000# but they are one of the few teams that actually practice it and they have rugby consultants on the payroll helping with this play.

I think it's a legit play. People are big mad because the Eagles practice it and have a player who is especially strong? Like what kind of argument is that?

Its just very very *very* disguised hatred for the Eagles. Lot of people just hate the team and fanbase but rather than come out and say "I hate the Eagles, I hate that they do this" it becomes more of a political style debate. We now have stats to back up the fact the team does it at least 10% better than the rest of the league. All of a sudden everyone is worried about player safety and health to try to back up their argument

 

[Ilov80s]

Kelce interview recently talked about it and he said that they (Eagles starters and backups) practice it fully and he was pretty sure that most of the other teams don't. He mentioned specifically a team (not the Giants) that he knew for a fact from one of the Oline guys, that they ran it and failed after never running it in practice once. He also mentioned that in the offseason they brought in a Rugby coach to help teach them how to move a scrum.

So its not just that Jalen can squat 4000# but they are one of the few teams that actually practice it and they have rugby consultants on the payroll helping with this play.

I think it's a legit play. People are big mad because the Eagles practice it and have a player who is especially strong? Like what kind of argument is that?

Its just very very *very* disguised hatred for the Eagles. Lot of people just hate the team and fanbase but rather than come out and say "I hate the Eagles, I hate that they do this" it becomes more of a political style debate. We now have stats to back up the fact the team does it at least 10% better than the rest of the league. All of a sudden everyone is worried about player safety and health to try to back up their argument

Go
Birds

 

[unckeyherb]

Kelce interview recently talked about it and he said that they (Eagles starters and backups) practice it fully and he was pretty sure that most of the other teams don't. He mentioned specifically a team (not the Giants) that he knew for a fact from one of the Oline guys, that they ran it and failed after never running it in practice once. He also mentioned that in the offseason they brought in a Rugby coach to help teach them how to move a scrum.

So its not just that Jalen can squat 4000# but they are one of the few teams that actually practice it and they have rugby consultants on the payroll helping with this play.

Rugby coach and consultant and practicing a scrum.

But we’ve been repeatedly lectured by the enlightened that its not a rugby play.

Not by me. I don’t really care if it’s a “rugby play”. It’s clearly a football play in this context. I mean there’s punting in rugby. Is that a “rugby play” that should be banned? Of course not.

The point is the eagles have made a very concerted effort to be better than the rest of the league at this play and it shows.

 

[Chaka]

Kelce interview recently talked about it and he said that they (Eagles starters and backups) practice it fully and he was pretty sure that most of the other teams don't. He mentioned specifically a team (not the Giants) that he knew for a fact from one of the Oline guys, that they ran it and failed after never running it in practice once. He also mentioned that in the offseason they brought in a Rugby coach to help teach them how to move a scrum.

So its not just that Jalen can squat 4000# but they are one of the few teams that actually practice it and they have rugby consultants on the payroll helping with this play.

I think it's a legit play. People are big mad because the Eagles practice it and have a player who is especially strong? Like what kind of argument is that?

Its just very very *very* disguised hatred for the Eagles. Lot of people just hate the team and fanbase but rather than come out and say "I hate the Eagles, I hate that they do this" it becomes more of a political style debate. We now have stats to back up the fact the team does it at least 10% better than the rest of the league. All of a sudden everyone is worried about player safety and health to try to back up their argument

I don't think Eagles fans are as important to anyone else as you do.

I think @trader jake is mostly having a laugh.

 

[Wingnut]

I don't get why people are mad at this play. It's just a QB sneak with more muscle behind it.

 

[DropKick]

Justin Fields must squat 600 lbs to get that Tush Push 1st down mid 1st quarter.

Also, loved how the two officials each had the play marked vastly different (a yard+ difference). One was a 1st down, one had it short. 1st down!!

Yeah...officials don't stand a chance with that mass of humanity around the ball.

How is it worse than any other typical short-yardage play? If there was no pushing, would it be any better?

Yes, it would be better without the pushing.

 

[need2know]

Only a few more hours!

 

[unckeyherb]

Justin Fields must squat 600 lbs to get that Tush Push 1st down mid 1st quarter.

Also, loved how the two officials each had the play marked vastly different (a yard+ difference). One was a 1st down, one had it short. 1st down!!

Yeah...officials don't stand a chance with that mass of humanity around the ball.

How is it worse than any other typical short-yardage play? If there was no pushing, would it be any better?

Yes, it would be better without the pushing.

why? line up against it and may the best team win. If your defense can't generate enough push against the offense (with a QB pushing the ball and two WR's not doing anything behind him-so basically 11 on 9) that is a you problem. Its not a trick play, there's no weird alignments or movements. The defense knows precisely what is coming. If they can't stop it, so be it.

 

[ShamrockPride]

The fact that every other team in the league isn't running it shows it's fine. Eagles o-line is amazing that's why it works.


Might as well ban Randy Moss from running deep.

Ban Derrick Henry from stiff arms.

 

[Chaka]

I don't get why people are mad at this play. It's just a QB sneak with more muscle behind it.

Boredom

 

[Amused to Death]

Justin Fields must squat 600 lbs to get that Tush Push 1st down mid 1st quarter.

Also, loved how the two officials each had the play marked vastly different (a yard+ difference). One was a 1st down, one had it short. 1st down!!

Yeah...officials don't stand a chance with that mass of humanity around the ball.

How is it worse than any other typical short-yardage play? If there was no pushing, would it be any better?

Yes, it would be better without the pushing.

Cool, let's make it a penalty to push the ball carrier. All ball carriers.

 

[Chaka]

Trevor Lawrence converted an old school QB senak today. It was a thing of beauty. Poetry in motion. I stopped watching the game right then and have been replaying it on a loop ever since. I have seen into the eyes of Football God and am forever changed.

 

[trader jake]

Forget Aaron Donald. Successful Tush Push.

Suck it haters.

 

[trader jake]

2 seconds left in the half and Eagles run the Tush Push for a TD. Yeah baby!!!!

The NFL needs to figure out a way to expand this play. We need more of this.

 

[need2know]

TD for all the haters

 

[Gjallarhorn]

It really is an ugly looking play.

 

[Amused to Death]

2 seconds left in the half and Eagles run the Tush Push for a TD. Yeah baby!!!!

The NFL needs to figure out a way to expand this play. We need more of this.

So much better than a FG, innit?

 

[unckeyherb]

Love. Absolutely love.

 

[unckeyherb]

2 seconds left in the half and Eagles run the Tush Push for a TD. Yeah baby!!!!

The NFL needs to figure out a way to expand this play. We need more of this.

Finally coming around. Kudos

 

[trader jake]

2 seconds left in the half and Eagles run the Tush Push for a TD. Yeah baby!!!!

The NFL needs to figure out a way to expand this play. We need more of this.

So much better than a FG, innit?

Deciding to go for a TD or FG in that situation should be an actual strategic decision.

 

[Summer Wheat]

TD for all the haters

I have Hurts in my keeper. Pushy the tushy!!

 

[Wingnut]

Plenty of QBs can run a QB sneak and don't need the help, maybe Hurts can't and that's why they give him a push.

I'm not mad at it.

 

[trader jake]

Cardinals somehow, someway lucked into a converted Tush Push. Amazing.

 

[trader jake]

Go Tush Push.

Again.