US Men's National Team (4 Viewers)

[NewlyRetired]

By the way, I normally don't talk about pk's, but Pulisic had a really nice one yesterday. Keeper guessed correctly, dove early and Pulisic still scored. Great placement and power. Missing either placement or power and that was going to be saved IMO.

I wonder if Pulisic effectively saved the coaches job yesterday? Losing to a team in a relegation battle after all their other bad performances could have been enough to get a sacking and let an interim coach out the season.

I do find it interesting that out of all the seemingly hundreds of offensive combinations that Milan has tried that it continues to be Leao and Pulisic, as it was from the start of the season, that create the most goals for the team.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Turkey and Switzerland will both be in the US next summer before the Gold Cup. US vs Turkey is almost all set and I assume Switzerland should be easy enough to schedule in the warm up to the Gold Cup.

I believe both Switzerland and Turkey are going to be playing Mexico as well.

Switzerland is now set as well in Nashville as a pre Gold Cup friendly along with Turkey.

These are two solid teams.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I can't remember if it was mentioned here in the thread but it came out recently that it was Roma that talked to Augsburg this winter about Banks.

I kind of feel though that Banks best chance to make the WC team would be to stay at Augsburg and play a ton as a starter next season (hopefully). He would likely find the path to playing time much harder at Roma...

 

[NewlyRetired]

A few highlights from Mathis Albert in the U19's. I loved the non pk call that he continues playing on and then draws a pk.

https://x.com/DenisAl45080514/status/1898705875021537645

Even giving up ~3 years in age, he does not look all that small out there.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Tessman, Weston and Weah all starting today.

Tessman is starting his 8th game in the last 9 played in all comps.

 

[McBokonon]

McKennie called for a handball, leading to a converted penalty. He leapt into the air with his arm flailing about, was always a penalty.

 

[prefontaine]

A few highlights from Mathis Albert in the U19's. I loved the non pk call that he continues playing on and then draws a pk.

https://x.com/DenisAl45080514/status/1898705875021537645

Even giving up ~3 years in age, he does not look all that small out there.

It's a long way to go but he's generating quite the buzz in Germany.

If he and Sullivan play in the U17 World Cup in November, it may become must-watch tv. It's shaping up as a group with a legitimate chance to win it if we bring our best players.

 

[El Floppo]

Tessman, Weston and Weah all starting today.

Tessman is starting his 8th game in the last 9 played in all comps.

Johnny as well in a win. Drew a yellow and got subbed out

 

[NewlyRetired]

What a nightmare for Juve. They have had 80% possession in the second half and have given up 2 goals (3-0 now)

 

[NewlyRetired]

A few highlights from Mathis Albert in the U19's. I loved the non pk call that he continues playing on and then draws a pk.

https://x.com/DenisAl45080514/status/1898705875021537645

Even giving up ~3 years in age, he does not look all that small out there.

It's a long way to go but he's generating quite the buzz in Germany.

If he and Sullivan play in the U17 World Cup in November, it may become must-watch tv. It's shaping up as a group with a legitimate chance to win it if we bring our best players.

Big if on who gets released as you said but if we have everyone available, this feels like it could be even stronger than the fantastic Donovan, Beasley, Beckerman, Gooch, and Convey U17 team.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Looks like 19 year old Josh Wynder has found his feet. Another MOTM today in the second division for Benfica B.

Media in Portugal is saying he will compete for a starting job on the main club next season

 

[NewlyRetired]

Sacha Kljestan is doing it again this year, playing for Des Moines Menace in the US Open Cup.

And he brought old friends Bradley Wright Phillips and Benny Fielhaber with him. More old hats are expected to join soon.

Dax McCarty, Matt Hedges and Ozzie Alonso have also joined Des Moines for the Open Cup.

 

[El Floppo]

#1DesMoinesFan

 

[El Floppo]

Haji and Dike both got 10+ sub minutes.

Aidan Morris, Reynolds and Mackenzie went 90.

Trusty CCV combo locked in as starters. Have to figure that going to be hard to ignore for Poch.

Busio and Lund dresses but did not play

 

[NewlyRetired]

Nations league roster is due today. Poch will be announcing it officially tomorrow at 11 AM Eastern.

 

[gianmarco]

US just added friendlies against Turkey and Switzerland in June before the Gold Cup.

 

[B Maverick]

Every so often Lalas' podcast or whatever he does comes up on my IG feed. This weekend I came across one where he was talking about where the USMNT would finish in the EPL and then extended it to the rest of the top divisions.

He starts by saying they could be Chelsea and would beat everyone in the EPL except City, Arsenal, Liverpool. Then in the Bundesliga they would beat everyone except BM and Leverkusen
He then goes on saying with the exception of the "superclubs" of any league, the USMNT would beat them.

He is implying that the USMNT would qualify for the Champions League from all of the top 5 UEFA leagues.

Curious what you guys think in here?

 

[The Z Machine]

Every so often Lalas' podcast or whatever he does comes up on my IG feed. This weekend I came across one where he was talking about where the USMNT would finish in the EPL and then extended it to the rest of the top divisions.

He starts by saying they could be Chelsea and would beat everyone in the EPL except City, Arsenal, Liverpool. Then in the Bundesliga they would beat everyone except BM and Leverkusen
He then goes on saying with the exception of the "superclubs" of any league, the USMNT would beat them.

He is implying that the USMNT would qualify for the Champions League from all of the top 5 UEFA leagues.

Curious what you guys think in here?

If they had a chance to train together day in and day out? Yes, I think they could qualify for CL in all 5 top UEFA leagues. Weakness would be goalie and center back, so they could leak goals against good teams, but should be able to create enough offense to offset IMO.

 

[gianmarco]

He's insane.

We can't even be counted on to beat top 15 countries and we are going to be behind only the top 10-15 clubs?

 

[zoobird]

He's insane.

We can't even be counted on to beat top 15 countries and we are going to be behind only the top 10-15 clubs?

Players are distributed very differently among clubs and countries. Not sure that changes things, but I do think it's really tough to equate countries and clubs without looking player by player.

Given how USMNT players are key components of teams like AC Milan, Juventus, PSV, Bournemouth, etc...I don't think it's crazy to say that we'd be competitive with those teams...so probably a little bit further down than top 10 or 15...but maybe somewhere between top 20-top 50?

 

[BassNBrew]

He's insane.

We can't even be counted on to beat top 15 countries and we are going to be behind only the top 10-15 clubs?

Trying to wrap my head around this premise. My only argument is that you a lot of players on the top 15 countries not sniffing a good team. Example one being Messi playing for Miami.

Argentina Football Team | Player Details | Soccer Base

Argentina's National Football Team. Player details provided on all current squad members including Age, Caps, Goals and current Domestic Club.

www.soccerbase.com

Such a tough puzzle. Where does Sergeant rank in terms of EPL strikers? How would one even go about answering that?

 

[NewlyRetired]

Of all the insane things Lalas has said, this ranks really low on the crazy scale.

It would not be a given but they would be in the mix with the current team IMO. We have a ton of players who are already playing in Champions League. And that does not even count players like Jedi, Richards and Adams, all of which are Champions League level players.

 

[El Floppo]

US just added friendlies against Turkey and Switzerland in June before the Gold Cup.

v Turkey(Yay!) is June 7 in CT.

I'm going to try to see that one.

 

[El Floppo]

Lalas got what he wanted.

 

[NewlyRetired]

He's insane.

We can't even be counted on to beat top 15 countries and we are going to be behind only the top 10-15 clubs?

Players are distributed very differently among clubs and countries. Not sure that changes things, but I do think it's really tough to equate countries and clubs without looking player by player.

Given how USMNT players are key components of teams like AC Milan, Juventus, PSV, Bournemouth, etc...I don't think it's crazy to say that we'd be competitive with those teams...so probably a little bit further down than top 10 or 15...but maybe somewhere between top 20-top 50?

PSV is a great example. The Americans are incredibly important to that team. They made final 16 of Champions League, and are currently ranked 28th in Europe.

I would argue a full healthy USMNT is better than PSV, or at worse equivalent.

 

[El Floppo]

He's insane.

We can't even be counted on to beat top 15 countries and we are going to be behind only the top 10-15 clubs?

Players are distributed very differently among clubs and countries. Not sure that changes things, but I do think it's really tough to equate countries and clubs without looking player by player.

Given how USMNT players are key components of teams like AC Milan, Juventus, PSV, Bournemouth, etc...I don't think it's crazy to say that we'd be competitive with those teams...so probably a little bit further down than top 10 or 15...but maybe somewhere between top 20-top 50?

PSV is a great example. The Americans are incredibly important to that team. They made final 16 of Champions League, and are currently ranked 28th in Europe.

I would argue the full healthy US is better than PSV, or at worse equivalent.

sigh... ok... I'll play. GK is a weakness. otherwise, FBs are CL level. MF too. Forwards... kinda sorta, with Pepi featuring for a CL team. I mean, Trusty and CCV even played CL ball- so it's close to top-to-bottom for the starting lineup.

but that's not really an indicator, other than saying those guys are in clubs that are CL level already.

they'd be top of the table, IMO... but Fulham/Crystal Palace type mid-top of the table. they're not going to challenge a top 4... so 12-4 is my range for that squad.

 

[B Maverick]

For those saying there are teams with important US players... Where would PSV rank in the top 5 leagues? Do you think they get to the CL playing in England? Italy?
Just because they play in the CL doesn't mean they would get there when talking the top 5 leagues.

Also, does the current US team have the depth to complete for a full season? It's more than just a starting XI. 1-2 Domestic cups along with the season?
Or are they out early to concentrate on the league?
Injuries?

I personally think they would be mid to lower table in the top 5. Sure they have some CL level players and some that are playing in the CL, but as a team I don't see top 4-5 in these leagues.

 

[El Floppo]

For those saying there are teams with important US players... Where would PSV rank in the top 5 leagues? Do you think they get to the CL playing in England? Italy?
Just because they play in the CL doesn't mean they would get there when talking the top 5 leagues.

Also, does the current US team have the depth to complete for a full season? It's more than just a starting XI. 1-2 Domestic cups along with the season?
Or are they out early to concentrate on the league?
Injuries?

I personally think they would be mid to lower table in the top 5. Sure they have some CL level players and some that are playing in the CL, but as a team I don't see top 4-5 in these leagues.

mostly agree- England would be tough... Germany slightly less so... Italy, France and Holland not so much with only a few decent teams and the rest pretty much fodder.

I think there's some depth for the US.

PSV, Juve and Milan- where most of the US guys play- would all be mid-table in the EPL, IMO. 16-8th. PSV would have to figure out how to defend. Juve and Milan would have to figure out how to score.

 

[B Maverick]

For those saying there are teams with important US players... Where would PSV rank in the top 5 leagues? Do you think they get to the CL playing in England? Italy?
Just because they play in the CL doesn't mean they would get there when talking the top 5 leagues.

Also, does the current US team have the depth to complete for a full season? It's more than just a starting XI. 1-2 Domestic cups along with the season?
Or are they out early to concentrate on the league?
Injuries?

I personally think they would be mid to lower table in the top 5. Sure they have some CL level players and some that are playing in the CL, but as a team I don't see top 4-5 in these leagues.

mostly agree- England would be tough... Germany slightly less so... Italy, France and Holland not so much with only a few decent teams and the rest pretty much fodder.

I think there's some depth for the US.

PSV, Juve and Milan- where most of the US guys play- would all be mid-table in the EPL, IMO. 16-8th. PSV would have to figure out how to defend. Juve and Milan would have to figure out how to score.

Is Holland now better than Spain? HAHA I do agree that the US may have a better shot in leagues like France and maybe Italy.

France would be the most interesting to see for me. I think that would be their best chance at a CL qualifying place.

 

[NewlyRetired]

For those saying there are teams with important US players... Where would PSV rank in the top 5 leagues? Do you think they get to the CL playing in England? Italy?
Just because they play in the CL doesn't mean they would get there when talking the top 5 leagues.

Also, does the current US team have the depth to complete for a full season? It's more than just a starting XI. 1-2 Domestic cups along with the season?
Or are they out early to concentrate on the league?
Injuries?

I personally think they would be mid to lower table in the top 5. Sure they have some CL level players and some that are playing in the CL, but as a team I don't see top 4-5 in these leagues.

I agree PSV would likely struggle in some leagues to make Champions League.

FWIW, here are the PSV games this year against top 5 league teams.

Juventus: Loss
PSG: Draw
Girona: Win (by 4 goals)
Brest: Loss
Liverpool: Win (was not Liverpool’s best players)
Juventus (2 legs): Win
Arsenal (1 of 2 legs): Blowout loss

 

[NewlyRetired]

Is Holland now better than Spain?

Obviously the tip top of Spain is significantly better than the tip top of the Netherlands.

But La Liga drops off very quickly in quality. PSV crushed Girona 4-0 in Champions League this year so it is not outrageous to think a PSV like team might contend for a Champions League spot in Spain.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Someone asked if the USMNT would have the depth to see through a league season. Recent history tells us we probably do not.

The amount of injuries the USMNT has carried the last 3 years is ridiculous. If that continued in this idea of playing in the league, I think the quality would drop quite a bit and they would be much closer to relegation than fighting for a Champions League spot.

My comments in previous posts were assuming good health, which may be a bigger fantasy than this whole conversation is

 

[B Maverick]

Is Holland now better than Spain?

Obviously the tip top of Spain is significantly better than the tip top of the Netherlands.

But La Liga drops off very quickly in quality. PSV crushed Girona 4-0 in Champions League this year so it is not outrageous to think a PSV like team might contend for a Champions League spot in Spain.

Was more giving Flop a hard time for including Holland and not Spain in the top 5 leagues, since that is not the general consensus.

I was looking at the tables of the top 5 and I think PSV might have a better shot in France then the others, they would be competing for no higher than 4th in La Liga though. But even then there are some normally strong teams having a down year. And with Betis now flying with Antony (and Cardona a big part), makes it tougher! hahahahaha.

Is an interesting thought exercise and no way as clear cut and easy as Lalas wants to believe...

 

[B Maverick]

Lalas got what he wanted.

Nah, we aren't linking to him or engaging with him. We are talking here, amongst people that actually know things and are realistic. And don't just say things for the interactions.

 

[El Floppo]

For those saying there are teams with important US players... Where would PSV rank in the top 5 leagues? Do you think they get to the CL playing in England? Italy?
Just because they play in the CL doesn't mean they would get there when talking the top 5 leagues.

Also, does the current US team have the depth to complete for a full season? It's more than just a starting XI. 1-2 Domestic cups along with the season?
Or are they out early to concentrate on the league?
Injuries?

I personally think they would be mid to lower table in the top 5. Sure they have some CL level players and some that are playing in the CL, but as a team I don't see top 4-5 in these leagues.

mostly agree- England would be tough... Germany slightly less so... Italy, France and Holland not so much with only a few decent teams and the rest pretty much fodder.

I think there's some depth for the US.

PSV, Juve and Milan- where most of the US guys play- would all be mid-table in the EPL, IMO. 16-8th. PSV would have to figure out how to defend. Juve and Milan would have to figure out how to score.

Is Holland now better than Spain? HAHA I do agree that the US may have a better shot in leagues like France and maybe Italy.

France would be the most interesting to see for me. I think that would be their best chance at a CL qualifying place.

lmao... I totally forgot about an entire country

 

[B Maverick]

For those saying there are teams with important US players... Where would PSV rank in the top 5 leagues? Do you think they get to the CL playing in England? Italy?
Just because they play in the CL doesn't mean they would get there when talking the top 5 leagues.

Also, does the current US team have the depth to complete for a full season? It's more than just a starting XI. 1-2 Domestic cups along with the season?
Or are they out early to concentrate on the league?
Injuries?

I personally think they would be mid to lower table in the top 5. Sure they have some CL level players and some that are playing in the CL, but as a team I don't see top 4-5 in these leagues.

mostly agree- England would be tough... Germany slightly less so... Italy, France and Holland not so much with only a few decent teams and the rest pretty much fodder.

I think there's some depth for the US.

PSV, Juve and Milan- where most of the US guys play- would all be mid-table in the EPL, IMO. 16-8th. PSV would have to figure out how to defend. Juve and Milan would have to figure out how to score.

Is Holland now better than Spain? HAHA I do agree that the US may have a better shot in leagues like France and maybe Italy.

France would be the most interesting to see for me. I think that would be their best chance at a CL qualifying place.

lmao... I totally forgot about an entire country

Hard not to forget when the league goes from Ronaldo v Messi to Mbappe v Antony

 

[NewlyRetired]

=======

“Sargent has settled brilliantly and now many consider him the best striker in the Championship. I understand Leeds like him a lot and are keeping close tabs on him, but Nottingham Forest, Newcastle, Brentford, Fulham and Everton have all watched him in 2025.” @GraemeBailey​

 

[NewlyRetired]

This is another one of the strong U17 class. He has not broken through to MLS yet, but is clearly knocking loudly at just 16

============

Jude Terry in LAFC II's first match of the season:

Man of the match
9.4 FotMob rating
3 assists
5 chances created
3/3 (100%) successful dribbles
4 recoveries ️
5/8 (62%) ground duels won

 

[encaitar]

He's insane.

We can't even be counted on to beat top 15 countries and we are going to be behind only the top 10-15 clubs?

Players are distributed very differently among clubs and countries. Not sure that changes things, but I do think it's really tough to equate countries and clubs without looking player by player.

Given how USMNT players are key components of teams like AC Milan, Juventus, PSV, Bournemouth, etc...I don't think it's crazy to say that we'd be competitive with those teams...so probably a little bit further down than top 10 or 15...but maybe somewhere between top 20-top 50?

Our best ever US player is the 3rd or 4th best player on his club team... They're in 8th place in Serie A. Lalas is an idiot.... like normal.

 

[BassNBrew]

He's insane.

We can't even be counted on to beat top 15 countries and we are going to be behind only the top 10-15 clubs?

Players are distributed very differently among clubs and countries. Not sure that changes things, but I do think it's really tough to equate countries and clubs without looking player by player.

Given how USMNT players are key components of teams like AC Milan, Juventus, PSV, Bournemouth, etc...I don't think it's crazy to say that we'd be competitive with those teams...so probably a little bit further down than top 10 or 15...but maybe somewhere between top 20-top 50?

Our best ever US player is the 3rd or 4th best player on his club team... They're in 8th place in Serie A. Lalas is an idiot.... like normal.

And they would be closer to relegation than 8th without said player.

 

[El Floppo]

He's insane.

We can't even be counted on to beat top 15 countries and we are going to be behind only the top 10-15 clubs?

Players are distributed very differently among clubs and countries. Not sure that changes things, but I do think it's really tough to equate countries and clubs without looking player by player.

Given how USMNT players are key components of teams like AC Milan, Juventus, PSV, Bournemouth, etc...I don't think it's crazy to say that we'd be competitive with those teams...so probably a little bit further down than top 10 or 15...but maybe somewhere between top 20-top 50?

Our best ever US player is the 3rd or 4th best player on his club team... They're in 8th place in Serie A. Lalas is an idiot.... like normal.

Which 2-3 guys do you see as better on Milan?

Leao, Theo... Reijnders?

 

[encaitar]

He's insane.

We can't even be counted on to beat top 15 countries and we are going to be behind only the top 10-15 clubs?

Players are distributed very differently among clubs and countries. Not sure that changes things, but I do think it's really tough to equate countries and clubs without looking player by player.

Given how USMNT players are key components of teams like AC Milan, Juventus, PSV, Bournemouth, etc...I don't think it's crazy to say that we'd be competitive with those teams...so probably a little bit further down than top 10 or 15...but maybe somewhere between top 20-top 50?

Our best ever US player is the 3rd or 4th best player on his club team... They're in 8th place in Serie A. Lalas is an idiot.... like normal.

Which 2-3 guys do you see as better on Milan?

Leao, Theo... Reijnders?

Leao is for sure. Maignan and Theo are having down years, but both are considered top 10 at their respective positions. CP is not(at least not amongst the footballing world).

Reijnders has scored 11 goals from midfield this year and is tied with CP for second most MOTM behind Rafa. Could see many managers preferring him over CP.

CP would be above everyone else for sure.

You're focusing on the wrong point though. CP is the greatest US men's player of all time and he's not the best player on his team. The only player we have that would be considered in or near the top 10 at their position is Jedi and while LB is important, it's not where you find the game changers needed to reach the top of the big leagues.

 

[NewlyRetired]

He's insane.

We can't even be counted on to beat top 15 countries and we are going to be behind only the top 10-15 clubs?

Players are distributed very differently among clubs and countries. Not sure that changes things, but I do think it's really tough to equate countries and clubs without looking player by player.

Given how USMNT players are key components of teams like AC Milan, Juventus, PSV, Bournemouth, etc...I don't think it's crazy to say that we'd be competitive with those teams...so probably a little bit further down than top 10 or 15...but maybe somewhere between top 20-top 50?

Our best ever US player is the 3rd or 4th best player on his club team... They're in 8th place in Serie A. Lalas is an idiot.... like normal.

Which 2-3 guys do you see as better on Milan?

Leao, Theo... Reijnders?

Leao is for sure. Maignan and Theo are having down years, but both are considered top 10 at their respective positions. CP is not(at least not amongst the footballing world).

Reijnders has scored 11 goals from midfield this year and is tied with CP for second most MOTM behind Rafa. Could see many managers preferring him over CP.

CP would be above everyone else for sure.

You're focusing on the wrong point though. CP is the greatest US men's player of all time and he's not the best player on his team. The only player we have that would be considered in or near the top 10 at their position is Jedi and while LB is important, it's not where you find the game changers needed to reach the top of the big leagues.

You may be slightly overestimating the strength of the non top teams in Italy, Spain, Germany and France IMO.

The teams that pick up the 4th Champions League spots in these leagues are not typically full of world class players.

Hell, even in England, we are seeing it this year that Forest may grab a Champions League spot. Take a look at their roster and you are not going to find a whose who of top class players.

Milan is a dumpster fire this year and are not playing up any where near their potential. Pulisic was their player of the year last year when they finished 2nd in Serie A. IMO he, and Reijnders have been the best players on Milan for 2 years running.

I do agree that Leao should be the better player between the two of them but when only objectively using these two seasons they have played together, Pulisic has been the more consistent player IMO. Leao I think is driving his coaches nuts to be honest because everyone sees that the guy should be a top 10 caliber player in the world if he could just find the focus.

 

[El Floppo]

He's insane.

We can't even be counted on to beat top 15 countries and we are going to be behind only the top 10-15 clubs?

Players are distributed very differently among clubs and countries. Not sure that changes things, but I do think it's really tough to equate countries and clubs without looking player by player.

Given how USMNT players are key components of teams like AC Milan, Juventus, PSV, Bournemouth, etc...I don't think it's crazy to say that we'd be competitive with those teams...so probably a little bit further down than top 10 or 15...but maybe somewhere between top 20-top 50?

Our best ever US player is the 3rd or 4th best player on his club team... They're in 8th place in Serie A. Lalas is an idiot.... like normal.

Which 2-3 guys do you see as better on Milan?

Leao, Theo... Reijnders?

Leao is for sure. Maignan and Theo are having down years, but both are considered top 10 at their respective positions. CP is not(at least not amongst the footballing world).

Reijnders has scored 11 goals from midfield this year and is tied with CP for second most MOTM behind Rafa. Could see many managers preferring him over CP.

CP would be above everyone else for sure.

You're focusing on the wrong point though. CP is the greatest US men's player of all time and he's not the best player on his team. The only player we have that would be considered in or near the top 10 at their position is Jedi and while LB is important, it's not where you find the game changers needed to reach the top of the big leagues.

I honestly wasn't focusing on any point, just curious who you thought was better.

 

[encaitar]

He's insane.

We can't even be counted on to beat top 15 countries and we are going to be behind only the top 10-15 clubs?

Players are distributed very differently among clubs and countries. Not sure that changes things, but I do think it's really tough to equate countries and clubs without looking player by player.

Given how USMNT players are key components of teams like AC Milan, Juventus, PSV, Bournemouth, etc...I don't think it's crazy to say that we'd be competitive with those teams...so probably a little bit further down than top 10 or 15...but maybe somewhere between top 20-top 50?

Our best ever US player is the 3rd or 4th best player on his club team... They're in 8th place in Serie A. Lalas is an idiot.... like normal.

Which 2-3 guys do you see as better on Milan?

Leao, Theo... Reijnders?

Leao is for sure. Maignan and Theo are having down years, but both are considered top 10 at their respective positions. CP is not(at least not amongst the footballing world).

Reijnders has scored 11 goals from midfield this year and is tied with CP for second most MOTM behind Rafa. Could see many managers preferring him over CP.

CP would be above everyone else for sure.

You're focusing on the wrong point though. CP is the greatest US men's player of all time and he's not the best player on his team. The only player we have that would be considered in or near the top 10 at their position is Jedi and while LB is important, it's not where you find the game changers needed to reach the top of the big leagues.

You may be slightly overestimating the strength of the non top teams in Italy, Spain, Germany and France IMO.

The teams that pick up the 4th Champions League spots in these leagues are not typically full of world class players.

Hell, even in England, we are seeing it this year that Forest may grab a Champions League spot. Take a look at their roster and you are not going to find a whose who of top class players.

Milan is a dumpster fire this year and are not playing up any where near their potential. Pulisic was their player of the year last year when they finished 2nd in Serie A. IMO he, and Reijnders have been the best players on Milan for 2 years running.

I do agree that Leao should be the better player between the two of them but when only objectively using these two seasons they have played together, Pulisic has been the more consistent player IMO. Leao I think is driving his coaches nuts to be honest because everyone sees that the guy should be a top 10 caliber player in the world if he could just find the focus.

I get a lot of what you're saying, but pulling Forest out is a little unfair IMO. I could just as easily say look at who's fifth in the EPL. Compare Man City's roster to ours and we're nowhere close to the European spots in the EPL.

Hell, compare the US roster to Man United or Tottenham and I could say we'd be lucky to avoid relegation in the EPL based on where they are.

Sure, some other leagues..... especially France, are very top heavy and the US would likely be competing for European spots in those, but even there it would be tough... much tougher than most in here(and Lalas) seem to realize. There are guys from just about every team in the top 5 leagues that get sold for $30M+ every year and yet the only US players to ever fetch that much were Pulisic and Balogun and neither lived up to those sales with the clubs they were sold to.

Fun to think about though. I imagine as the tide of young talent continues for the US, we'll see this become a moot point.

 

[The Z Machine]

Is Holland now better than Spain?

Obviously the tip top of Spain is significantly better than the tip top of the Netherlands.

But La Liga drops off very quickly in quality. PSV crushed Girona 4-0 in Champions League this year so it is not outrageous to think a PSV like team might contend for a Champions League spot in Spain.

The Girona of 24-25 isn't the same as the Girona that was top 4 in 23-24. The current squad is 13th in La Liga. Previous season saw Girona win a LOT of games by coming back and getting points in the last 10 mins. It is reversion to the mean time for them. Athletic Bilbao and Betis are much better teams than Girona this season.

 

[The Z Machine]

He's insane.

We can't even be counted on to beat top 15 countries and we are going to be behind only the top 10-15 clubs?

Players are distributed very differently among clubs and countries. Not sure that changes things, but I do think it's really tough to equate countries and clubs without looking player by player.

Given how USMNT players are key components of teams like AC Milan, Juventus, PSV, Bournemouth, etc...I don't think it's crazy to say that we'd be competitive with those teams...so probably a little bit further down than top 10 or 15...but maybe somewhere between top 20-top 50?

Our best ever US player is the 3rd or 4th best player on his club team... They're in 8th place in Serie A. Lalas is an idiot.... like normal.

Which 2-3 guys do you see as better on Milan?

Leao, Theo... Reijnders?

Leao is for sure. Maignan and Theo are having down years, but both are considered top 10 at their respective positions. CP is not(at least not amongst the footballing world).

Reijnders has scored 11 goals from midfield this year and is tied with CP for second most MOTM behind Rafa. Could see many managers preferring him over CP.

CP would be above everyone else for sure.

You're focusing on the wrong point though. CP is the greatest US men's player of all time and he's not the best player on his team. The only player we have that would be considered in or near the top 10 at their position is Jedi and while LB is important, it's not where you find the game changers needed to reach the top of the big leagues.

You may be slightly overestimating the strength of the non top teams in Italy, Spain, Germany and France IMO.

The teams that pick up the 4th Champions League spots in these leagues are not typically full of world class players.

Hell, even in England, we are seeing it this year that Forest may grab a Champions League spot. Take a look at their roster and you are not going to find a whose who of top class players.

Milan is a dumpster fire this year and are not playing up any where near their potential. Pulisic was their player of the year last year when they finished 2nd in Serie A. IMO he, and Reijnders have been the best players on Milan for 2 years running.

I do agree that Leao should be the better player between the two of them but when only objectively using these two seasons they have played together, Pulisic has been the more consistent player IMO. Leao I think is driving his coaches nuts to be honest because everyone sees that the guy should be a top 10 caliber player in the world if he could just find the focus.

I get a lot of what you're saying, but pulling Forest out is a little unfair IMO. I could just as easily say look at who's fifth in the EPL. Compare Man City's roster to ours and we're nowhere close to the European spots in the EPL.

Hell, compare the US roster to Man United or Tottenham and I could say we'd be lucky to avoid relegation in the EPL based on where they are.

Sure, some other leagues..... especially France, are very top heavy and the US would likely be competing for European spots in those, but even there it would be tough... much tougher than most in here(and Lalas) seem to realize. There are guys from just about every team in the top 5 leagues that get sold for $30M+ every year and yet the only US players to ever fetch that much were Pulisic and Balogun and neither lived up to those sales with the clubs they were sold to.

Fun to think about though. I imagine as the tide of young talent continues for the US, we'll see this become a moot point.

Jedi has to be worth more than $30m at this point. Puli is definitely worth more than that now IMO.

 

[NewlyRetired]

He's insane.

We can't even be counted on to beat top 15 countries and we are going to be behind only the top 10-15 clubs?

Players are distributed very differently among clubs and countries. Not sure that changes things, but I do think it's really tough to equate countries and clubs without looking player by player.

Given how USMNT players are key components of teams like AC Milan, Juventus, PSV, Bournemouth, etc...I don't think it's crazy to say that we'd be competitive with those teams...so probably a little bit further down than top 10 or 15...but maybe somewhere between top 20-top 50?

Our best ever US player is the 3rd or 4th best player on his club team... They're in 8th place in Serie A. Lalas is an idiot.... like normal.

Which 2-3 guys do you see as better on Milan?

Leao, Theo... Reijnders?

Leao is for sure. Maignan and Theo are having down years, but both are considered top 10 at their respective positions. CP is not(at least not amongst the footballing world).

Reijnders has scored 11 goals from midfield this year and is tied with CP for second most MOTM behind Rafa. Could see many managers preferring him over CP.

CP would be above everyone else for sure.

You're focusing on the wrong point though. CP is the greatest US men's player of all time and he's not the best player on his team. The only player we have that would be considered in or near the top 10 at their position is Jedi and while LB is important, it's not where you find the game changers needed to reach the top of the big leagues.

You may be slightly overestimating the strength of the non top teams in Italy, Spain, Germany and France IMO.

The teams that pick up the 4th Champions League spots in these leagues are not typically full of world class players.

Hell, even in England, we are seeing it this year that Forest may grab a Champions League spot. Take a look at their roster and you are not going to find a whose who of top class players.

Milan is a dumpster fire this year and are not playing up any where near their potential. Pulisic was their player of the year last year when they finished 2nd in Serie A. IMO he, and Reijnders have been the best players on Milan for 2 years running.

I do agree that Leao should be the better player between the two of them but when only objectively using these two seasons they have played together, Pulisic has been the more consistent player IMO. Leao I think is driving his coaches nuts to be honest because everyone sees that the guy should be a top 10 caliber player in the world if he could just find the focus.

I get a lot of what you're saying, but pulling Forest out is a little unfair IMO. I could just as easily say look at who's fifth in the EPL. Compare Man City's roster to ours and we're nowhere close to the European spots in the EPL.

Hell, compare the US roster to Man United or Tottenham and I could say we'd be lucky to avoid relegation in the EPL based on where they are.

Sure, some other leagues..... especially France, are very top heavy and the US would likely be competing for European spots in those, but even there it would be tough... much tougher than most in here(and Lalas) seem to realize. There are guys from just about every team in the top 5 leagues that get sold for $30M+ every year and yet the only US players to ever fetch that much were Pulisic and Balogun and neither lived up to those sales with the clubs they were sold to.

Fun to think about though. I imagine as the tide of young talent continues for the US, we'll see this become a moot point.

Jedi has to be worth more than $30m at this point. Puli is definitely worth more than that now IMO.

While clearly an estimate, here is what the transfer market site says for US players currently valued above $20m.

In order:

Pulisic, Tillman, Robinson, Balogun, Weston, Dest, Musah, and Johnny

I am sure injuries are not helping things either for our players values. I was surprised to see Adams not have a higher price but I assume that may be due to his position and injury history.

I think Pepi may be a little low given the premium on goal scorers but he may also be getting value adjusted for scoring in the Eredivisie and not scoring in the Bundesliga. When ever the site does a new update, I expect Sargent to take the biggest jump in valuation.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Pulisic made the WhoScored Team of the week. He was the highest rated player of the week as well across the entire Serie A.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GlwQnQFXMAA4CjI?format=jpg&name=medium

 

[NewlyRetired]

Jedi is the 9th ranked crosser of the ball in the entire EPL.

Yet another stat I would have lost my house on if you asked me 5 years ago about Jedi, whose crossing ability was even worse than Yedlins (a notoriously bad ball striker) at the time.

https://preview.redd.it/who-are-the-best-crossers-in-the-premier-league-v0-zqema2d952oe1.png?width=3375&format=png&auto=webp&s=d517529d626eae2b1aaf9410e81c7273c97089e8