War in Israel (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

I don’t know how to work with Hamas. They’re murderers who deserve to die. But there appears to be no way to get rid of them. So now what?

I'm pretty sure Israel is going to do just that. At least to the point that anyone who tries to use the name "Hamas" for their group or organization will be killed.

I don’t see how that’s possible unless you level Gaza. And leveling Gaza would be a disaster that would make things infinitely worse for Israel. I know they’re angry right now but I don’t believe they’re that stupid.

 

[beer 30]

Where are the Saudis in this current affair? Still hosting golf tournaments or are they picking a side?

Folks more in the know will fill this in better than I but wasn't one of the benefits to Hamas of attacking Israel to derail some mutual understanding Israel was working on with Saudi Arabia?

 

[Jayrod]

I don’t know how to work with Hamas. They’re murderers who deserve to die. But there appears to be no way to get rid of them. So now what?

I'm pretty sure Israel is going to do just that. At least to the point that anyone who tries to use the name "Hamas" for their group or organization will be killed.

I don’t see how that’s possible unless you level Gaza. And leveling Gaza would be a disaster that would make things infinitely worse for Israel. I know they’re angry right now but I don’t believe they’re that stupid.

I personally think they will go door to door on the ground at some point. Likely with some scanners to determine if there are secret rooms, tunnels, etc.

I'd be shocked if what is still standing of Gaza isn't swept clean by Israeli troops at some point. Sure it will breed some resentful youth, but the current group named Hamas will be no more. Netanyahu has said exactly that.

 

[SWC]

boy i do not like either side killing women and children take that to the bank brohans

 

[the moops]

I don't believe in absolutes and I absolutely don't believe this statement.

Imagine that we were not supporting Ukraine and/or there was no Russia invasion.

Would our support of Israel in this Hamas war look any different? Would we be sending troops or more aid? I honestly don't know, but I tend to believe that we are doing everything we feel we are able to do regarding Israel, and our support of Ukraine has no current bearing on that amount of support.

 

[timschochet]

I don’t know how to work with Hamas. They’re murderers who deserve to die. But there appears to be no way to get rid of them. So now what?

I'm pretty sure Israel is going to do just that. At least to the point that anyone who tries to use the name "Hamas" for their group or organization will be killed.

I don’t see how that’s possible unless you level Gaza. And leveling Gaza would be a disaster that would make things infinitely worse for Israel. I know they’re angry right now but I don’t believe they’re that stupid.

I personally think they will go door to door on the ground at some point. Likely with some scanners to determine if there are secret rooms, tunnels, etc.

I'd be shocked if what is still standing of Gaza isn't swept clean by Israeli troops at some point. Sure it will breed some resentful youth, but the current group named Hamas will be no more. Netanyahu has said exactly that.

Some resentful youth? Sorry but lol.

Let’s backtrack. There are two million Palestinians who live in Gaza.

 

[Fat Nick]

I was all-in on coverage of this initially, but honestly I've started to stop reading things because...well...it's just getting to be too much. Sad all around. Anger all around. I think the reason why this has gone on for decades is truly because it is so complex. Both sides have a legitimate claim to the lands depending on where in history you want to legitimize a claim. Both sides have committed atrocities against civilians (NOT equating the magnitude, but neither side is guiltless).

The Palestinian side is exponentially more complicated in my eyes because Hamas ≠ Palestine in all aspects. Hamas is evil. I stand fully in that court. NO group who did what has been done over the past few days (and at times before) has any reason to be on the face of this earth...but Hamas is not Gaza, and Palestinians aren't all part of Hamas. Unfortunately, when Israel defends itself with counter-strikes aimed at Hamas, it also indirectly targets Palestinians who may or may not be aligned with Hamas' actions, and who have nowhere else to go to flee the attack. Geographically, they are one and the same. Philosophically, some are, some aren't - and it's not a binary scale. I'm sure some would welcome a divided state where both can live peacefully. I'm sure there are some who would wipe out the entire Jewish population the second they laid down their arms.

Regardless, the end result is civilian casualties, which justify further attacks and escalations and the cycle repeats. It's awful. It's hard to watch. It hurts to watch a Palestinian father holding their dead child just as much as an Israeli father holding their dead child.

Yes Hamas is evil. No question. But we’ve worked with evil before. We were allies with the Soviet Union in order to defeat Nazi Germany and perhaps no more evil regime has ever existed. Both Trump and Biden have attempted negotiations with the Taliban, and they are every bit as savage as Hamas.

I don’t know how to work with Hamas. They’re murderers who deserve to die. But there appears to be no way to get rid of them. So now what?

I agree Hamas is evil - no clue what do do about it. If I had that answer and believed in it, I'd quit my job and push for it. That's kind of my challenge - it's one of those situations where I don't see either side changing, and every solution is awful...and living with it is awful too.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

They are just walking into random Palestinian's homes and taking them away

It probably doesn't sound like it, but I'm on Israel's side here. I hope they destroy Hamas, root and branch. And I get that anti-Semitism runs deep worldwide.

But this isn't really true. Israeli settlers have been illegally setting lands in the West Bank for a long time.

And the creation of Israel threw a lot of people directly out of their homes.

ETA: I wish it were possible to have a discussion that included all of this -- why the world wanted to create a Jewish state (centuries of pogroms and the Holocaust) in the first place; how a 19th century colonial mindset in the West led them to do it in a destructive way; how religious fanaticism around specific pieces of land fuels the conflict; why Palestinians have lost hope to the point where Hamas seems like a viable option; that the murder of innocents is wrong in all cases; that Arab anti-Semitism and Muslim terrorism is real and a barrier to future peace; how Netanyahu and other Israeli politicians have benefitted from the conflict and used it for their own ends. Almost no one is willing to engage with all of them, but I think they're all relevant.

 

[The Z Machine]

Sure it will breed some resentful youth

What about the 2 million people that won't have shelter or food?

 

[Snotbubbles]

When you use force, you just create more terrorists.

Israel's hands are not clean in this. Their only saving grace is that they're backed by the US so the atrocities they perform against the Palestinians, the international community just looks the other way.

False.

Their missteps have been called out often.

But they are nowhere near these atrocities. The fact that you and a few other posters keep beating this drum while women are raped and children are beheaded is very telling. True colors showing and all that.

Cutting water, power and food to civilian populations is against international law. Violating international agreements over land disputes. Israel moves against the Palestinians without impunity. And people like you just say, "Sorry your homes are being bulldozed and you are being pushed off of land you think is yours..."

No one is supporting the acts that Hamas did to civilians. But you and a few others are lumping Hamas with all of the people in Gaza.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I personally think they will go door to door on the ground at some point. Likely with some scanners to determine if there are secret rooms, tunnels, etc.

I'd be shocked if what is still standing of Gaza isn't swept clean by Israeli troops at some point. Sure it will breed some resentful youth, but the current group named Hamas will be no more. Netanyahu has said exactly that.

Will it though? Are there really a bunch of ambivalent youths in Gaza that haven't made up their minds (or had it made up for them) on Israel?

I guess I really am asking.

 

[The Commish]

How many times do we have to see "eliminate X and the problem is solved" only to see that it's really "eliminate X and create a vacuum for the next group to step in and carry on the cause"? I am 49 years old and this has been the pattern, consistently in the ME for my ENTIRE life

 

[tonysmiles]

Is it fair to say the Palestinian people say: "We want to be free and independent of Israel. Let us be and we'll leave Israel alone and go on."

And Israeli people say: "Palestinians only want to eliminate Israel. If we let them be free, they'll do all they can to wipe us out".

What is missed is Israel begrudgingly gave the West Bank and Gaza to Palestinian occupation and they believe it is their territory. Just like the IDF media relations guy said today they are going to raze Gaza and Israel will claim it as its own and settle it and then there will be guarantees of no terrorism emanating from Gaza. Israel has offered free passage through Israel of Palestinians who want to leave Gaza before the bombings but very few have left.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

this link has some statistics of the demographics in Palestine (along with brief history)

The Gaza Strip − why the history of the densely populated enclave is key to understanding the current conflict

The enclave abutting Israel has been described as the world’s ‘largest open-air prison.’ Conditions have deteriorated for the population there under a 16-year blockade.

theconversation.com

 

[jamny]

Having sympathy for those that live under Hamas rule does not mean you support Hamas and their actions.
Hoping Israel doesn't completely level Gaza does not mean you support Hamas and their actions.
Being critical of things that Israel has done in the past does not mean you support Hamas and their actions.

That said, I will stand with Israel and whatever they decide to do. I am in no position to judge.

 

[tonysmiles]

It's time to wean Ukraine off the American teat and pound Iran back to the stone age.

BINGO eliminate the enablement in the region and you will have very little of this occurring

 

[Gatorman]

While this is not a joking matter, those of you assuming a nation that follows the old testament not going old testament on an enemy is surprising.

Expecting a nation that has just seen their people massacred by the beheadings of children to show restraint seems a little a bit hypocritical.

Expecting a nation that has been suing for peace with their Arab neighbors for 50+ years and getting gut punched over and over again to continue to take it seems asinine.

In the end, Israel is likely going to be a lot more merciful in how they respond that any of you or I would be if the same thing happened to us in the USA or anywhere we live.

The resentful youth will be there no matter the outcome. Propaganda works and those who control the narrative in their respective regions will always be able to find more "acolytes to the cause" (we see it here with the news agencies that are really just propaganda as well as the bots on facebook and Twitter).

I hate to say this, but there are only 2 ways this cycle ends: 1) Someone becomes powerful in the Muslim world to end the conflict with the Jews/Israel. The Saudi's were headed in this direction or 2) Israel wipes out those who are trying to wipe them out.

Finally (and not trying to be political here): Kudos to Joe Biden for his speech yesterday:

Let me say again — to any country, any organization, anyone thinking of taking advantage of this situation, I have one word: Don’t.

Walk softly but carry a big stick (a carrier group in the Med doesn't hurt either). The news agencies are calling it the greatest speech for Israel since Truman.

 

[tonysmiles]

Why are Palestinians and Israelis able to be more civil in the West Bank 2.2 million Palestinians along with 600,000 Israelis live in the West Bank. Why is that relatively peaceful. Or am I totally wrong.

 

[Fat Nick]

No one is supporting the acts that Hamas did to civilians. But you and a few others are lumping Hamas with all of the people in Gaza.

How many times do we have to see "eliminate X and the problem is solved" only to see that it's really "eliminate X and create a vacuum for the next group to step in and carry on the cause"? I am 49 years old and this has been the pattern, consistently in the ME for my ENTIRE life

These two statements are one of the biggest challenges here honestly. The original hatred between Palestine and Israel came from the Zionist movement and the creation of Israel - which in many cases displaced Palestinians against their free will. We're at a point where honestly, very few (if any) people in Hamas were ACTUALLY displaced in the original creation of Israel (they're not old enough). So the hatred from the current Hamas stems from the oppression they've felt living in the West Bank/Gaza, NOT from personal displacement from their homes. Now...the current Non-Hamas Palestinians unfortunately have new fuel for hatred of Jewish Israel driven by the bombing of their homes...It's cyclical, and I think very common within terroristic groups. As I said earlier, Hamas ≠ Gaza...but Hamas is IN Gaza. Attacking Hamas has civilian non-Hamas casualties. These civilians harbor resentment that leads to future attacks.

One could say "If Palestinians wanted to stop the suffering, they'd boot Hamas out of Gaza and negotiate for peace," but that's not easy...potentially just not possible. As The Commish said - you eliminate one group, and another takes its place.

 

[Fat Nick]

Why are Palestinians and Israelis able to be more civil in the West Bank 2.2 million Palestinians along with 600,000 Israelis live in the West Bank. Why is that relatively peaceful. Or am I totally wrong.

The West Bank is much more diversified and less physically separated. It's not walled off in the same way. Gaza is a breeding ground for radicalism because it's essentially an internment camp separated from the rest of Israel. In some ways, it's that isolation that allows Hamas to plan out an operation of this scale undetected. It would've been a lot harder if they were comingled with other groups.

 

[gianmarco]

I'm not familiar with Isaac Saul but I thought this (very long) tweet he made yesterday was excellent. And well worth reading.

This is the article @Nathan R. Jessep linked.

 

[whoknew]

I'm not familiar with Isaac Saul but I thought this (very long) tweet he made yesterday was excellent. And well worth reading.

This is the article @Nathan R. Jessep linked.

my bad. Sorry. I'll delete.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I'm not familiar with Isaac Saul but I thought this (very long) tweet he made yesterday was excellent. And well worth reading.

Thanks for posting this.

 

[AAABatteries]

I don’t know how to work with Hamas. They’re murderers who deserve to die. But there appears to be no way to get rid of them. So now what?

I'm pretty sure Israel is going to do just that. At least to the point that anyone who tries to use the name "Hamas" for their group or organization will be killed.

I don’t see how that’s possible unless you level Gaza. And leveling Gaza would be a disaster that would make things infinitely worse for Israel. I know they’re angry right now but I don’t believe they’re that stupid.

I personally think they will go door to door on the ground at some point. Likely with some scanners to determine if there are secret rooms, tunnels, etc.

I'd be shocked if what is still standing of Gaza isn't swept clean by Israeli troops at some point. Sure it will breed some resentful youth, but the current group named Hamas will be no more. Netanyahu has said exactly that.

Some resentful youth? Sorry but lol.

Let’s backtrack. There are two million Palestinians who live in Gaza.

I know there isn't an exact answer but of the 2M how many would be a.) member of Hamas b.) supporters of Hamas c.) the rest??

Just your best guess or if there's stats somewhere.

 

[gianmarco]

I'm not familiar with Isaac Saul but I thought this (very long) tweet he made yesterday was excellent. And well worth reading.

This is the article @Nathan R. Jessep linked.

my bad. Sorry. I'll delete.

Oh, I wasn't saying it for that. It is worth a read. Just in case you wanted it in article format instead of on Twitter.

 

[Fat Nick]

I'm not familiar with Isaac Saul but I thought this (very long) tweet he made yesterday was excellent. And well worth reading.

Thanks for posting this.

x2 - this was very well said.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

I'm not familiar with Isaac Saul but I thought this (very long) tweet he made yesterday was excellent. And well worth reading.

This is the article @Nathan R. Jessep linked.

my bad. Sorry. I'll delete.

Oh, I wasn't saying it for that. It is worth a read. Just in case you wanted it in article format instead of on Twitter.

Def worth reposting. And second tweet after the long one has the link to the same page I linked last night where all the source references have clickable links

 

[timschochet]

I'm not familiar with Isaac Saul but I thought this (very long) tweet he made yesterday was excellent. And well worth reading.

Thanks for posting this.

x2 - this was very well said.

X3. Best commentary I’ve read.

 

[Stoneworker]

I know there isn't an exact answer but of the 2M how many would be a.) member of Hamas b.) supporters of Hamas c.) the rest??

Just your best guess or if there's stats somewhere.

From the above-linked article.

Elections haven’t been held in Gaza since 2006, but polling from March 2023 found that 45% of Gazans would back Hamas should there be a vote, ahead of Fatah at 32%.

 

[Snotbubbles]

I'm not familiar with Isaac Saul but I thought this (very long) tweet he made yesterday was excellent. And well worth reading.

This is the article @Nathan R. Jessep linked.

From that tweet, this is pretty spot on. "As Lee Fang perfectly put it, "Hamas would absolutely execute the ACAB lefties cheering on horrific violence against Israelis if they lived in Gaza & U.S. right-wingers blindly cheering on Israeli subjugation of Palestinians would rebel twice as violently if Americans were subjected to similar occupation.""

This too: "You cannot keep two million people living in the conditions people in Gaza are living in and expect peace. You can't. And you shouldn’t. Their environment is antithetical to the human condition. Violent rebellion is guaranteed. Guaranteed. As sure as the sun rising."

 

[The Duff Man]

Can folks with knowledge or understanding elaborate on how prior to this attack, Israel oppresses Palestine?

Reading words from pro Palestine people, it seems like Palestine is seen as more of a mistreated colony than a separate country. And Israel shouldn't be surprised when Palestine attacks them.

Can someone help summarize on how Israel oppresses Palestine?

Here is a cliff notes of a 280 page report that Amnesty International produced: https://www.amnesty.org/en/location...-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

I have learned a lot in this thread, thanks.

If details in this report are true it is pretty bad.

Nevertheless, the Hamas are evil and need to be destroyed. A lot of innocent people have already died because of them and a lot more are about to

The example previously posted about Mexico being granted Texas seems like an apt one. There would never be a long term solution to resolve that, other than the removal of one group or the other. Seems like the case here as well.

 

[Sand]

Is it fair to say the Palestinian people say: "We want to be free and independent of Israel. Let us be and we'll leave Israel alone and go on."

And Israeli people say: "Palestinians only want to eliminate Israel. If we let them be free, they'll do all they can to wipe us out".

No.

Because they want the land back that Israel is on.

Do the Palestinians want to have the land that they're already on or do they want more than that?

More. All of current Israel.

And this is where Islamic law steps in. By that any territory conquered is theirs forever.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Fool me once, shame on you,
Fool me twice, shame on me.
Fool me over and over and over for millennia…..

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

A lot of reports of drones or something else -- definitely aerial intrusions -- in the north of Israel right now. Unclear exactly what they are, but there are a LOT of them.

Sounds like drones, possibly rockets, and maybe actual invaders on the ground. Confirmed intrusions.

 

[Phil Elliott]

boy i do not like either side killing women and children take that to the bank brohans

Agree, but what if it was your family? "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth...eventually the world is blind and toothless."

 

[Witz]

Thank you to the folks posting in this thread. I know some about the situation/history but not enough to speak much about it. This has been very helpful and educational.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

ian bremmer@ianbremmer
us government announces immediate evacuation of embassy in beirut, tells all americans to leave lebanon.

 

[SWC]

bbc indicates that israel has attacked lebanon in response to an attack from hezbolah take that to the bank brohans

 

[Stoneworker]

This was exactly Hamas' goal, was it not? To provoke Israel into a wider conflict and eventually draw in the West?

 

[Gatorman]

This was exactly Hamas' goal, was it not? To provoke Israel into a wider conflict and eventually draw in the West?

We will not know this for a while, but I think it was likely another of their "limited" attacks that ended up doing better than they hoped, but the scale of the atrocities they committed have now put them in a worse spot than usual.

It was likely also to destabilize the budding peace between Israel and the oil producing Arab countries to the south (other than Iran)

 

[(HULK)]

How many times do we have to see "eliminate X and the problem is solved" only to see that it's really "eliminate X and create a vacuum for the next group to step in and carry on the cause"? I am 49 years old and this has been the pattern, consistently in the ME for my ENTIRE life

The Palestinians need someone like Ghandi to come along. Terrorist groups don't ever get what they want. It would be very difficult to get a 2 state solution that works well, but it remains impossible when a terror group controls Palestine.

 

[Jayrod]

This too: "You cannot keep two million people living in the conditions people in Gaza are living in and expect peace. You can't. And you shouldn’t. Their environment is antithetical to the human condition. Violent rebellion is guaranteed. Guaranteed. As sure as the sun rising."

Who is responsible for this?

It sure as heck isn't all Israel's fault.

Iran, Hamas, the Palestinians themselves have built their world in Gaza with one goal in mind, to go after Israel.

They made their bed and are going to lie in it. This was intentional. Millions of dollars spent on Rockets and guns instead of infrastructure. Training soldiers instead of farmers. They did this to themselves specifically so they could try and get the world to sympathize and many are falling for it.

Equally as ridiculous is conflating the land grab in the West Bank with Gaza.

Israel doesn't care to settle Gaza and has zero settlements there so why is it being used to "justify" Hamas?

 

[Snotbubbles]

This too: "You cannot keep two million people living in the conditions people in Gaza are living in and expect peace. You can't. And you shouldn’t. Their environment is antithetical to the human condition. Violent rebellion is guaranteed. Guaranteed. As sure as the sun rising."

Who is responsible for this?

It sure as heck isn't all Israel's fault.

Iran, Hamas, the Palestinians themselves have built their world in Gaza with one goal in mind, to go after Israel.

They made their bed and are going to lie in it. This was intentional. Millions of dollars spent on Rockets and guns instead of infrastructure. Training soldiers instead of farmers. They did this to themselves specifically so they could try and get the world to sympathize and many are falling for it.

Equally as ridiculous is conflating the land grab in the West Bank with Gaza.

Israel doesn't care to settle Gaza and has zero settlements there so why is it being used to "justify" Hamas?

Nothing in the quote says anything that you are attempting to make it say.

If you think Israel has clean hands in this, then there really isn't anything further to discuss. It will just be circular arguments.

 

[Snotbubbles]

How many times do we have to see "eliminate X and the problem is solved" only to see that it's really "eliminate X and create a vacuum for the next group to step in and carry on the cause"? I am 49 years old and this has been the pattern, consistently in the ME for my ENTIRE life

The Palestinians need someone like Ghandi to come along. Terrorist groups don't ever get what they want. It would be very difficult to get a 2 state solution that works well, but it remains impossible when a terror group controls Palestine.

You mean other than the Taliban.

 

[Jayrod]

This too: "You cannot keep two million people living in the conditions people in Gaza are living in and expect peace. You can't. And you shouldn’t. Their environment is antithetical to the human condition. Violent rebellion is guaranteed. Guaranteed. As sure as the sun rising."

Who is responsible for this?

It sure as heck isn't all Israel's fault.

Iran, Hamas, the Palestinians themselves have built their world in Gaza with one goal in mind, to go after Israel.

They made their bed and are going to lie in it. This was intentional. Millions of dollars spent on Rockets and guns instead of infrastructure. Training soldiers instead of farmers. They did this to themselves specifically so they could try and get the world to sympathize and many are falling for it.

Equally as ridiculous is conflating the land grab in the West Bank with Gaza.

Israel doesn't care to settle Gaza and has zero settlements there so why is it being used to "justify" Hamas?

Nothing in the quote says anything that you are attempting to make it say.

If you think Israel has clean hands in this, then there really isn't anything further to discuss. It will just be circular arguments.

Yet your post says it all, you think Hamas has "reasons".

 

[Snotbubbles]

This too: "You cannot keep two million people living in the conditions people in Gaza are living in and expect peace. You can't. And you shouldn’t. Their environment is antithetical to the human condition. Violent rebellion is guaranteed. Guaranteed. As sure as the sun rising."

Who is responsible for this?

It sure as heck isn't all Israel's fault.

Iran, Hamas, the Palestinians themselves have built their world in Gaza with one goal in mind, to go after Israel.

They made their bed and are going to lie in it. This was intentional. Millions of dollars spent on Rockets and guns instead of infrastructure. Training soldiers instead of farmers. They did this to themselves specifically so they could try and get the world to sympathize and many are falling for it.

Equally as ridiculous is conflating the land grab in the West Bank with Gaza.

Israel doesn't care to settle Gaza and has zero settlements there so why is it being used to "justify" Hamas?

Nothing in the quote says anything that you are attempting to make it say.

If you think Israel has clean hands in this, then there really isn't anything further to discuss. It will just be circular arguments.

Yet your post says it all, you think Hamas has "reasons".

I quoted a tweet from an Israeli who thinks Hamas has "reasons". Israel may not have expected Hamas to react the way the reacted, but that had to expect a reaction.

 

[Gatorman]

Who is responsible for this?

It sure as heck isn't all Israel's fault.

This is incredibly true, and the narrative that usually gets buried in all of this. When the Arab world was "peaceful" Jews and Arabs lived in peace. There were flare ups, sure, but Jews lived in almost every corner of the Ottoman empire. Once that devolved (thank you Standard Oil company), you had all of these factions on power and land grabs. All of them were fiercely battled and the Muslim on Muslim violence was worse than anything else. Inside of that, the Zionists started working on getting their own sliver of land for themselves. They chose the poorest, least populated area that also happened to be where they were pushed out of in the time of the Romans. They turned that wasteland in to an oasis with socialist collectives and cutting edge irrigation and other technologies but the Muslim world would not have that. Everything after springs from there.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

This too: "You cannot keep two million people living in the conditions people in Gaza are living in and expect peace. You can't. And you shouldn’t. Their environment is antithetical to the human condition. Violent rebellion is guaranteed. Guaranteed. As sure as the sun rising."

Who is responsible for this?

It sure as heck isn't all Israel's fault.

Iran, Hamas, the Palestinians themselves have built their world in Gaza with one goal in mind, to go after Israel.

They made their bed and are going to lie in it. This was intentional. Millions of dollars spent on Rockets and guns instead of infrastructure. Training soldiers instead of farmers. They did this to themselves specifically so they could try and get the world to sympathize and many are falling for it.

Equally as ridiculous is conflating the land grab in the West Bank with Gaza.

Israel doesn't care to settle Gaza and has zero settlements there so why is it being used to "justify" Hamas?

Nothing in the quote says anything that you are attempting to make it say.

If you think Israel has clean hands in this, then there really isn't anything further to discuss. It will just be circular arguments.

Yet your post says it all, you think Hamas has "reasons".

I mean just say it @Snotbubbles
This attack was justified in your eyes.

You and several others are in here using whataboutism, saying Israel is doing "ethnic cleansing", etc all DAYS after a horrific terrorist attack.

I'm done here. Anti-Semites gonna anti-Semite I guess

Joe, mods, whoever can just ban me because I'm not playing nice with the likes of these guys. If you think the Jews are to blame for any of this, you are willfully ignorant or just plain stupid.

Palestinians who can't move out of Gaza are now being killed because of Hamas, 2 wrongs do not make a right.

 

[dgreen]

This too: "You cannot keep two million people living in the conditions people in Gaza are living in and expect peace. You can't. And you shouldn’t. Their environment is antithetical to the human condition. Violent rebellion is guaranteed. Guaranteed. As sure as the sun rising."

Who is responsible for this?

It sure as heck isn't all Israel's fault.

Iran, Hamas, the Palestinians themselves have built their world in Gaza with one goal in mind, to go after Israel.

They made their bed and are going to lie in it. This was intentional. Millions of dollars spent on Rockets and guns instead of infrastructure. Training soldiers instead of farmers. They did this to themselves specifically so they could try and get the world to sympathize and many are falling for it.

Equally as ridiculous is conflating the land grab in the West Bank with Gaza.

Israel doesn't care to settle Gaza and has zero settlements there so why is it being used to "justify" Hamas?

Nothing in the quote says anything that you are attempting to make it say.

If you think Israel has clean hands in this, then there really isn't anything further to discuss. It will just be circular arguments.

Yet your post says it all, you think Hamas has "reasons".

I mean just say it @Snotbubbles
This attack was justified in your eyes.

You and several others are in here using whataboutism, saying Israel is doing "ethnic cleansing", etc all DAYS after a horrific terrorist attack.

I'm done here. Anti-Semites gonna anti-Semite I guess

Joe, mods, whoever can just ban me because I'm not playing nice with the likes of these guys. If you think the Jews are to blame for any of this, you are willfully ignorant or just plain stupid.

I think you should definitely take a break from this thread.

 

[timschochet]

This too: "You cannot keep two million people living in the conditions people in Gaza are living in and expect peace. You can't. And you shouldn’t. Their environment is antithetical to the human condition. Violent rebellion is guaranteed. Guaranteed. As sure as the sun rising."

Who is responsible for this?

It sure as heck isn't all Israel's fault.

Iran, Hamas, the Palestinians themselves have built their world in Gaza with one goal in mind, to go after Israel.

They made their bed and are going to lie in it. This was intentional. Millions of dollars spent on Rockets and guns instead of infrastructure. Training soldiers instead of farmers. They did this to themselves specifically so they could try and get the world to sympathize and many are falling for it.

Equally as ridiculous is conflating the land grab in the West Bank with Gaza.

Israel doesn't care to settle Gaza and has zero settlements there so why is it being used to "justify" Hamas?

Nothing in the quote says anything that you are attempting to make it say.

If you think Israel has clean hands in this, then there really isn't anything further to discuss. It will just be circular arguments.

Yet your post says it all, you think Hamas has "reasons".

I mean just say it @Snotbubbles
This attack was justified in your eyes.

You and several others are in here using whataboutism, saying Israel is doing "ethnic cleansing", etc all DAYS after a horrific terrorist attack.

I'm done here. Anti-Semites gonna anti-Semite I guess

Joe, mods, whoever can just ban me because I'm not playing nice with the likes of these guys. If you think the Jews are to blame for any of this, you are willfully ignorant or just plain stupid.

I really think you’re overreacting to the comments made by @Snotbubbles. He never said the attack was justified. He never wrote anything antisemitic.