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War in Israel (3 Viewers)

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I often wonder what it was like for people at home during WWII. US troops are literally over the place, fighting here and fighting there. Plus there are a bunch of other important battles going on that don't involve Americans directly but that are crucial to the overall war effort. I guess it's possible to sort of keep it all straight when your only source of news is daily papers and "newsies." Imagine what this would have been like with 24/7 real-time saturation coverage. For six years.

Side note and a lighter story.

My Aunt and Uncle married young, right out of college. (He was an equipment manager for the University of Tennessee and borrowed Johnny Majors' suit for the wedding!)

A month or so after they were married, my Uncle was deployed to Korea in the Korean War.

The only way they had to communicate was by regular mail.

My Aunt said a week or so after he left, she'd wait at the mailbox for the mail delivery person to deliver the mail. She told him about her husband and how she was hoping to hear from him.

Day after day, no mail.

She said it got to a point where he would see her as he walked up and would frown and shake his head "no".

This went on for weeks and she began to wonder all sorts of things. Surely the government would let her know if he'd been killed or captured. What if he'd left my Aunt for another woman in Korea? With no word, she started to imagine and worry about all sorts of things.

Then one day, she saw the mailperson walk up with a huge smile. Carrying some 30+ letters from my Uncle that had been held up for some reason.

I know that's a goofy story. But this topic felt like it could use a smile.
 
This thread is a good read, with pics, that supports the theory that a failed Hamas rocket struck the hospital.

Looks like it mainly hit a parking lot
very good thread

it's referenced from within this one as well, that has ongoing updates on the hospital situation:

latest update so far: they've only found a 1x1 meter impact crater, it seems:

and of course had death threats just for trying to provide accurate information :wall:
 
Interesting historical thread. I try to follow this stuff pretty closely, but I didn’t know a lot of what he discusses here
This was a great thread also. I need to read the the one he linked at the end as well talking about the history of the conflict. Thanks, @ignatiusjreilly for sharing

from within that, this answers a question that has been asked many times:

So Syria keeps Palestinians stateless & undermines Israel, but it's not forthcoming about a Palestinian state​
What about Egypt? Why does it keep the Rafah border closed with Gaza? Why sign peace with Israel?For the same reasons, and then more: religion

and this pretty much sums it up:
Arab countries are normalizing their relationships with Israel, and support Palestinians more with words than actions:• Economics > idealism• Peace > Palestinian state• Suffering Palestinians are more useful• Neighbors don't believe they can win a war
 
The one thing I can say about the news is that Ukraine might as well be Edinburgh of the Seven Seas right now. *Poof* gone.

If he wasn't dead already Putin would kiss the Hamas leader full on the lips.
I often wonder what it was like for people at home during WWII. US troops are literally over the place, fighting here and fighting there. Plus there are a bunch of other important battles going on that don't involve Americans directly but that are crucial to the overall war effort. I guess it's possible to sort of keep it all straight when your only source of news is daily papers and "newsies." Imagine what this would have been like with 24/7 real-time saturation coverage. For six years.
We kinda "know" on some level don't we? Vietnam was the first true military action that had press coverage the likes of which was never seen. And it didn't go well.

There is a power in the visual that we all know. And no matter how heartless a person can be, people in general tend not to be when they see people that look like them, have kids like them, and have homes like them bloody, beaten and blown up. Not saying our country would have been supporting Germany and Japan very much, but still. Televised war is just an entity onto itself. Mix in social media and the ability of anyone to make their opinion known and you get.....
 
I often wonder what it was like for people at home during WWII. US troops are literally over the place, fighting here and fighting there. Plus there are a bunch of other important battles going on that don't involve Americans directly but that are crucial to the overall war effort. I guess it's possible to sort of keep it all straight when your only source of news is daily papers and "newsies." Imagine what this would have been like with 24/7 real-time saturation coverage. For six years.

Side note and a lighter story.

My Aunt and Uncle married young, right out of college. (He was an equipment manager for the University of Tennessee and borrowed Johnny Majors' suit for the wedding!)

A month or so after they were married, my Uncle was deployed to Korea in the Korean War.

The only way they had to communicate was by regular mail.

My Aunt said a week or so after he left, she'd wait at the mailbox for the mail delivery person to deliver the mail. She told him about her husband and how she was hoping to hear from him.

Day after day, no mail.

She said it got to a point where he would see her as he walked up and would frown and shake his head "no".

This went on for weeks and she began to wonder all sorts of things. Surely the government would let her know if he'd been killed or captured. What if he'd left my Aunt for another woman in Korea? With no word, she started to imagine and worry about all sorts of things.

Then one day, she saw the mailperson walk up with a huge smile. Carrying some 30+ letters from my Uncle that had been held up for some reason.

I know that's a goofy story. But this topic felt like it could use a smile.
Not goofy at all.

On the flip side how many battles in various wars were fought AFTER the war was over simply because communication was so slow? How many people died that didn't have to?
 
30 years ago we saw a young Kuwaiti girl testify before congress that she personally witnesses Iraqi soldiers going from one hospital to another tearing babies from incubators and leaving them to die. Our president referred to this in a fiery speech and we were all outraged. Years later we learned the 15 year old witness was the daughter of a Washington diplomat whose story was fabricated. Ten years later we saw a respected Secretary of State hold up a vial of some white substance on television and say “every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we're giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence.” as he lead us into another war and again it was much later we learned his words were 100% false and fabricated. Yesterday I read that Israel had bombed a hospital full of innocents. Later I read that it was actually a terrorist hideout so it was ok and I felt better about it. Then I heard it wasn’t Israel’s missile at all, but was an Arab missile gone awry that struck the hospital, killing 500 people, or maybe 100. Then I read it was not a mistake, but was terrorists intentionally targeting their own people for reasons. Some are now saying it wasn’t much of an explosion at all and very few were hurt. There’s at least a 50% chance we’ll learn today the footage everyone is analyzing is from 10 years ago at some conflict on a different continent. I read our president has directed his staff to conduct an investigation and get to the bottom of this so we can properly assign our blame and outrage.

The commentary I respect are those who are pointing out that none of this matters. These people have been slaughtering each other my entire life and will be doing so long after I die. I could not care less which children were killed yesterday and who did the killing because tomorrow the same will happen again. The commentary I don’t respect are those claiming they know exactly what happened and are undeniably on the right side of history in this and anyone who acknowledges an historical moral grey area are the ignorants.
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Just the other day they refused to allow US citizens through the Gaza gates to get out of the war zone.
Eh, I'm willing to cut them slack on this. If their stance is no one gets through, not pregnant women, not babies with family on the other side, then we can't ask for US passport holders to get priority there.
Of course we can.
80B should come with some perks. Getting US citizens out of a war zone should be one of them.
 
The commentary I respect are those who are pointing out that none of this matters. These people have been slaughtering each other my entire life and will be doing so long after I die. I could not care less which children were killed yesterday and who did the killing because tomorrow the same will happen again.

OVERNIGHT: Protests erupted across the Arab world following an explosion at the Al-Ahli hospital. Fires set at the U.S. embassy in Beirut, clashes at the Israeli embassy in Amman and large protests at the Israeli consulate in Istanbul. The region is boiling.

Again, the facts absolutely matter. Based on what we know today, this hospital was not bombed, it is intact and mostly undamaged, and 500 people did not die in this blast. Every single thing we were told by Hamas (!) last night was a lie. And people are responding to that lie in a way that is likely to result in more deaths.
 
30 years ago we saw a young Kuwaiti girl testify before congress that she personally witnesses Iraqi soldiers going from one hospital to another tearing babies from incubators and leaving them to die. Our president referred to this in a fiery speech and we were all outraged. Years later we learned the 15 year old witness was the daughter of a Washington diplomat whose story was fabricated. Ten years later we saw a respected Secretary of State hold up a vial of some white substance on television and say “every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we're giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence.” as he lead us into another war and again it was much later we learned his words were 100% false and fabricated. Yesterday I read that Israel had bombed a hospital full of innocents. Later I read that it was actually a terrorist hideout so it was ok and I felt better about it. Then I heard it wasn’t Israel’s missile at all, but was an Arab missile gone awry that struck the hospital, killing 500 people, or maybe 100. Then I read it was not a mistake, but was terrorists intentionally targeting their own people for reasons. Some are now saying it wasn’t much of an explosion at all and very few were hurt. There’s at least a 50% chance we’ll learn today the footage everyone is analyzing is from 10 years ago at some conflict on a different continent. I read our president has directed his staff to conduct an investigation and get to the bottom of this so we can properly assign our blame and outrage.

The commentary I respect are those who are pointing out that none of this matters. These people have been slaughtering each other my entire life and will be doing so long after I die. I could not care less which children were killed yesterday and who did the killing because tomorrow the same will happen again. The commentary I don’t respect are those claiming they know exactly what happened and are undeniably on the right side of history in this and anyone who acknowledges an historical moral grey area are the ignorants.
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Same.
 
On the flip side how many battles in various wars were fought AFTER the war was over simply because communication was so slow? How many people died that didn't have to?

Fun fact. Elementary school I went to on the west bank of New Orleans (for those familiar with NO, that's the BEST bank to you peeps) had a wooded area out back with what was left of one of the trenches dug for the Battle of New Orleans. More than a few old bullets were found by the kids out at recess.
 
The commentary I respect are those who are pointing out that none of this matters. These people have been slaughtering each other my entire life and will be doing so long after I die. I could not care less which children were killed yesterday and who did the killing because tomorrow the same will happen again.

OVERNIGHT: Protests erupted across the Arab world following an explosion at the Al-Ahli hospital. Fires set at the U.S. embassy in Beirut, clashes at the Israeli embassy in Amman and large protests at the Israeli consulate in Istanbul. The region is boiling.

Again, the facts absolutely matter. Based on what we know today, this hospital was not bombed, it is intact and mostly undamaged, and 500 people did not die in this blast. Every single thing we were told by Hamas (!) last night was a lie. And people are responding to that lie in a way that is likely to result in more deaths.
The most amazing part about the misinformation is that the hospital is mostly intact and 500 people didn’t die in the blast. Facts absolutely matter. You are spot on with that simple statement.
 
Grain of salt, of course. Not everything we read is a fact, especially on Twitter right now.
Twitter has to be a mess right now. I’ve only checked my lists which are for topics like Stock Market, NY Jets, local music scene, fantasy football, etc. so I’ve avoided the assumed mess. I get news from AP app and whatever headlines and updates that make CNBC.
I'm proud to say that Twitter feed has performed pretty well the past couple of weeks. For example, I'm reserving judgement on the hospital explosion, but my feed was ahead of (as far as I can tell) every mainstream media source on this one. My social media people very clearly outperformed the professionals at the New York Times, for instance. That's a common experience for me.

If there's on piece of advice I can give to people on navigating social media, it's to seek out people who are interested in getting their facts straight. Once upon a time, for me, that meant people who knew how to look at unemployment/jobs data and interpret them correctly without partisan cheerleading. Then it was people who could look at polling data without partisan cheerleading. Later on it meant people who could look at epidemiological data without partisan cheerleading. Now it's people who seek out on-the-ground information in a war zone without partisan cheerleading. A lot of these folks are highly ideological just like I am -- they just put a higher emphasis on "being right" than "my team wins."

The thing is, these people tend to get this stuff right not because they're experts, but because they're bright people who just practice good informational hygiene. A bunch of the people who I follow are the kind who will say things like "Obviously Hamas is evil, but let's be careful here -- they probably didn't decapitate all forty of those kids, probably just some" not because they like Hamas of course, but because they don't like to say things that turn out to be untrue and we could have known that if we had paid a little more attention.
I deleted the app because it was constantly sending me notifications of tweets for people that I did not follow, and who were posting conspiracy type stuff. I got sick of it.


It's not awesome, but I agree with Ivan....I've gotten accurate info WAY ahead of American "news" by following boots on the ground reporters. Including folks from CNN, Fox, and Al Jazeera. Some people actually still care about truth and not just spin.
I would question some/most news outlets that immediately reported the hospital incident blaming Israel and, since conflicting info being released by Israel, no retractions or corrections in the story. That is not interested in telling the truth. Total benefit if the doubt awarded to Hamas/Gaza. What happened to confirmation?
 
Grain of salt, of course. Not everything we read is a fact, especially on Twitter right now.
Twitter has to be a mess right now. I’ve only checked my lists which are for topics like Stock Market, NY Jets, local music scene, fantasy football, etc. so I’ve avoided the assumed mess. I get news from AP app and whatever headlines and updates that make CNBC.
I'm proud to say that Twitter feed has performed pretty well the past couple of weeks. For example, I'm reserving judgement on the hospital explosion, but my feed was ahead of (as far as I can tell) every mainstream media source on this one. My social media people very clearly outperformed the professionals at the New York Times, for instance. That's a common experience for me.

If there's on piece of advice I can give to people on navigating social media, it's to seek out people who are interested in getting their facts straight. Once upon a time, for me, that meant people who knew how to look at unemployment/jobs data and interpret them correctly without partisan cheerleading. Then it was people who could look at polling data without partisan cheerleading. Later on it meant people who could look at epidemiological data without partisan cheerleading. Now it's people who seek out on-the-ground information in a war zone without partisan cheerleading. A lot of these folks are highly ideological just like I am -- they just put a higher emphasis on "being right" than "my team wins."

The thing is, these people tend to get this stuff right not because they're experts, but because they're bright people who just practice good informational hygiene. A bunch of the people who I follow are the kind who will say things like "Obviously Hamas is evil, but let's be careful here -- they probably didn't decapitate all forty of those kids, probably just some" not because they like Hamas of course, but because they don't like to say things that turn out to be untrue and we could have known that if we had paid a little more attention.
I deleted the app because it was constantly sending me notifications of tweets for people that I did not follow, and who were posting conspiracy type stuff. I got sick of it.


It's not awesome, but I agree with Ivan....I've gotten accurate info WAY ahead of American "news" by following boots on the ground reporters. Including folks from CNN, Fox, and Al Jazeera. Some people actually still care about truth and not just spin.
I would question some/most news outlets that immediately reported the hospital incident blaming Israel and, since conflicting info being released by Israel, no retractions or corrections in the story. That is not interested in telling the truth. Total benefit if the doubt awarded to Hamas/Gaza. What happened to confirmation?

Unfortunately many people are good with believing something if it is something they want to be true and in today’s world where info moves so fast once info gets out there it is tough to get it back.
 
Grain of salt, of course. Not everything we read is a fact, especially on Twitter right now.
Twitter has to be a mess right now. I’ve only checked my lists which are for topics like Stock Market, NY Jets, local music scene, fantasy football, etc. so I’ve avoided the assumed mess. I get news from AP app and whatever headlines and updates that make CNBC.
I'm proud to say that Twitter feed has performed pretty well the past couple of weeks. For example, I'm reserving judgement on the hospital explosion, but my feed was ahead of (as far as I can tell) every mainstream media source on this one. My social media people very clearly outperformed the professionals at the New York Times, for instance. That's a common experience for me.

If there's on piece of advice I can give to people on navigating social media, it's to seek out people who are interested in getting their facts straight. Once upon a time, for me, that meant people who knew how to look at unemployment/jobs data and interpret them correctly without partisan cheerleading. Then it was people who could look at polling data without partisan cheerleading. Later on it meant people who could look at epidemiological data without partisan cheerleading. Now it's people who seek out on-the-ground information in a war zone without partisan cheerleading. A lot of these folks are highly ideological just like I am -- they just put a higher emphasis on "being right" than "my team wins."

The thing is, these people tend to get this stuff right not because they're experts, but because they're bright people who just practice good informational hygiene. A bunch of the people who I follow are the kind who will say things like "Obviously Hamas is evil, but let's be careful here -- they probably didn't decapitate all forty of those kids, probably just some" not because they like Hamas of course, but because they don't like to say things that turn out to be untrue and we could have known that if we had paid a little more attention.
I deleted the app because it was constantly sending me notifications of tweets for people that I did not follow, and who were posting conspiracy type stuff. I got sick of it.


It's not awesome, but I agree with Ivan....I've gotten accurate info WAY ahead of American "news" by following boots on the ground reporters. Including folks from CNN, Fox, and Al Jazeera. Some people actually still care about truth and not just spin.
I would question some/most news outlets that immediately reported the hospital incident blaming Israel and, since conflicting info being released by Israel, no retractions or corrections in the story. That is not interested in telling the truth. Total benefit if the doubt awarded to Hamas/Gaza. What happened to confirmation?
Pretty much went away with 24 hour news and "need" to be "first" in that space. Look for news outside our standard media machines people!!
 
How can all of these revised media reports still be declaring 500 people dead???

There might literally be zero.
Here's what CNN is currently reporting on this topic:

Editor's Note: This post contains graphic descriptions of violence.

Two witnesses of the deadly blast Tuesday at the Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital in Gaza described the scene after the explosion, which the Hamas-controlled Palestinian Ministry of Health has said killed hundreds of people.

One, a doctor who is working with Doctors Without Borders and said he was inside the hospital at the time, described in a post on Facebook seeing "many dismembered bodies" following the blast, including a decapitated child.

The doctor, Dr. Ghassan Abu-Sitteh, said he believed the overall death toll would "continue to increase."

Another witness, Adnan, told CNN the devastation that followed the blast was "beyond normal."

“If you look over there on the roads, there are body parts all over it, heads and hands of people, hands and brains of children," said Adnan, who would give only his first name. "It is truly indescribable.”

Adnan pointed out everyday items within the wreckage, like mattresses, pillows, children's shoes and diapers.

“Look, what kind of danger does a mattress and a pillow pose to Israel? What fault did the trees and rocks make? Come here, look," Adnan said, pointing out shoes and diapers. "It was full of supplies for people."
Some context: CNN cannot independently confirm what caused the blast nor the extent of casualties.

Gaza officials blamed Israel, while the Israel Defense Forces said it was the result of a failed rocket launch by Islamic Jihad. That group denied the Israeli assertion.

The US government currently believes that Israel "is not responsible" for the blast, according to the National Security Council.

Is there any evidence whatsoever, other than the word of these two people that I cannot possibly assess, that backs up any of this? Where are the photos of the many dismembered bodies? Where is this decapitated child? That seems awfully on-the-nose given the events of 10/7, so surely is evidence of that. Where is this road that is allegedly covered in body parts and brains? Why isn't anyone being shown any of this? And why is CNN passing it along without corroboration?

Why do random people on Twitter -- all of whom have full time jobs doing something other than journalism -- care more about finding out what actually happened than the professional journalists?
 
From a couple of different BBC reports (bold 1 snippet for emphasis):

The hospital is owned and run by the Anglican Church.
Canon Richard Sewell, the dean of St George's College in Jerusalem, told the BBC that about 1,000 displaced people were sheltering in the courtyard when it was hit, and about 600 patients and staff were inside the building.

Canon Richard Sewell, the dean of St George's College in Jerusalem and one of the Church's top figures in the holy city, said it was difficult to get reliable information about what happened but that he could confirm the hospital had been hit and that a "horrific number of people" had died.

BBC reporter Rushdi Abualouf has been to the the Al Ahli Hospital this morning. Witnesses there report scenes of devastation, and say bodies are still being collected. "People are still collecting body parts"


If there were 1k people outside that obviously could be cause for many casualties.
 
30 years ago we saw a young Kuwaiti girl testify before congress that she personally witnesses Iraqi soldiers going from one hospital to another tearing babies from incubators and leaving them to die. Our president referred to this in a fiery speech and we were all outraged. Years later we learned the 15 year old witness was the daughter of a Washington diplomat whose story was fabricated. Ten years later we saw a respected Secretary of State hold up a vial of some white substance on television and say “every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we're giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence.” as he lead us into another war and again it was much later we learned his words were 100% false and fabricated. Yesterday I read that Israel had bombed a hospital full of innocents. Later I read that it was actually a terrorist hideout so it was ok and I felt better about it. Then I heard it wasn’t Israel’s missile at all, but was an Arab missile gone awry that struck the hospital, killing 500 people, or maybe 100. Then I read it was not a mistake, but was terrorists intentionally targeting their own people for reasons. Some are now saying it wasn’t much of an explosion at all and very few were hurt. There’s at least a 50% chance we’ll learn today the footage everyone is analyzing is from 10 years ago at some conflict on a different continent. I read our president has directed his staff to conduct an investigation and get to the bottom of this so we can properly assign our blame and outrage.

The commentary I respect are those who are pointing out that none of this matters. These people have been slaughtering each other my entire life and will be doing so long after I die. I could not care less which children were killed yesterday and who did the killing because tomorrow the same will happen again. The commentary I don’t respect are those claiming they know exactly what happened and are undeniably on the right side of history in this and anyone who acknowledges an historical moral grey area are the ignorants.
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Meh.

There is right and wrong on occasion. WW2 and Nazis was one of those. Heck even Japan in WW2 were some brutal, horrible people who had to be stopped. This is pretty similar in the sides are fairly clear. Luckily this time around they can defend themselves...which of course draws criticism from those that hate them.

Neville Chamberlain's legacy was sullied and Churchill revered for the exact opposite reasons you guys are stating are admirable.
 
Last edited:
BEIRUT — Two drones launched at a base hosting U.S. troops in western Iraq were intercepted Wednesday, a U.S. defense official said.

Hours later, an Iraqi militia announced it had launched another drone attack on a second base. No injuries were reported in either incident.

The Islamic Resistance in Iraq, an umbrella group of Iranian-backed militias, issued a statement afterward claiming responsibility for the two attacks and saying it “heralds more operations” against the “American occupation.”

The salvos came at a time of increasing tension and fears of a broader regional conflict in the wake of the latest Hamas-Israel war.

Since the beginning of the war on Oct. 7, much attention has been focused on Hezbollah, the powerful Hamas ally across Israel’s northern border in Lebanon, and its formidable arsenal. The group has traded so-far limited strikes with Israel on the border in recent days.

But Iranian-backed militias in Iraq have also threatened to attack U.S. facilities over American support for Israel.

“Our missiles, drones, and special forces are ready to direct qualitative strikes at the American enemy in its bases and disrupt its interests if it intervenes in this battle,” Ahmad “Abu Hussein” al-Hamidawi, head of the Kataib Hezbollah militia, said in a statement last Wednesday. He also threatened to launch missiles at Israeli targets.

Following Tuesday night’s blast that killed hundreds at a hospital in Gaza, the group issued another statement in which it blamed the U.S. and its support for Israel for the catastrophe and called for an end to the U.S. presence in Iraq. Hamas has said the explosion in Gaza was from an Israeli airstrike, while Israel has blamed a misfired rocket by Palestinian militants.

“These evil people must leave the country. Otherwise, they will taste the fire of hell in this world before the afterlife,” the statement said.

A U.S. defense official, who wasn't authorized to comment to the media and spoke on condition of anonymity, confirmed the attack on the al-Asad military base in western Iraq.

Tashkil al-Waritheen, one of the Iranian-backed militias making up the larger group, claimed responsibility in a statement for a second drone attack, which it said had targeted the al-Harir airbase in northern Iraq. U.S. officials did not immediately comment on the claim of a second attack.

The government of the semi-autonomous Kurdish region in northern Iraq said an intercepted drone crashed in an open area near the village of Batas.

Also on Wednesday, Iran-allied groups in Iraq announced that they had formed a “joint operations room” to help Hamas in its war effort.

Two officials with Iranian-backed militias in Iraq, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the issue, confirmed the attacks on the two bases Wednesday. They said the armed groups were on alert and prepared to join the wider battle against Israel, but that Iran had not yet given approval for them to open a new front. Leaders from some of the factions are now in Lebanon and Syria in case they get orders to proceed, one of the officials said.

Officials with the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad declined to comment.

Lahib Higel, a senior analyst for Iraq at the International Crisis Group, said in the short term, the Iraqi groups allied with Iran and Hamas are not likely to open a new front in the war, but that could change if the Hamas-Israel war escalates or becomes protracted.

“Geographically, obviously, they are several steps removed, so they’re not going to be the first to react” and are likely to serve in a supporting role, she said.

Renad Mansour, a senior research fellow at the Chatham House, said the Iran-backed groups in Iraq are split between those that are also political parties and have a stake in the Iraqi political system and the “vanguard” groups that are purely militant and tend to be more tightly controlled by Iran.

The latter, he said, have been used in the past as foot soldiers in regional conflicts, including in Yemen and Syria.

“This is what they’re designed to do,” Mansour said. “The question is more, will Iran and some of the leaders of these groups decide it’s in their interest to escalate?”

 
Why does Israel need armament donations from the US?
Because we'll give.

----

That reminds me of another topic. We've given some 80B over the years to Egypt. Just the other day they refused to allow US citizens through the Gaza gates to get out of the war zone. I hope there are some sincere, severe negative monetary consequences there for that. Absolutely outrageous.
because we don't want Egypt to fall apart. it's not widely reported by the news, but there is regular fighting in the countryside.
 
BEIRUT — Two drones launched at a base hosting U.S. troops in western Iraq were intercepted Wednesday, a U.S. defense official said.

Hours later, an Iraqi militia announced it had launched another drone attack on a second base. No injuries were reported in either incident.

The Islamic Resistance in Iraq, an umbrella group of Iranian-backed militias, issued a statement afterward claiming responsibility for the two attacks and saying it “heralds more operations” against the “American occupation.”

The salvos came at a time of increasing tension and fears of a broader regional conflict in the wake of the latest Hamas-Israel war.

Since the beginning of the war on Oct. 7, much attention has been focused on Hezbollah, the powerful Hamas ally across Israel’s northern border in Lebanon, and its formidable arsenal. The group has traded so-far limited strikes with Israel on the border in recent days.

But Iranian-backed militias in Iraq have also threatened to attack U.S. facilities over American support for Israel.

“Our missiles, drones, and special forces are ready to direct qualitative strikes at the American enemy in its bases and disrupt its interests if it intervenes in this battle,” Ahmad “Abu Hussein” al-Hamidawi, head of the Kataib Hezbollah militia, said in a statement last Wednesday. He also threatened to launch missiles at Israeli targets.

Following Tuesday night’s blast that killed hundreds at a hospital in Gaza, the group issued another statement in which it blamed the U.S. and its support for Israel for the catastrophe and called for an end to the U.S. presence in Iraq. Hamas has said the explosion in Gaza was from an Israeli airstrike, while Israel has blamed a misfired rocket by Palestinian militants.

“These evil people must leave the country. Otherwise, they will taste the fire of hell in this world before the afterlife,” the statement said.

A U.S. defense official, who wasn't authorized to comment to the media and spoke on condition of anonymity, confirmed the attack on the al-Asad military base in western Iraq.

Tashkil al-Waritheen, one of the Iranian-backed militias making up the larger group, claimed responsibility in a statement for a second drone attack, which it said had targeted the al-Harir airbase in northern Iraq. U.S. officials did not immediately comment on the claim of a second attack.

The government of the semi-autonomous Kurdish region in northern Iraq said an intercepted drone crashed in an open area near the village of Batas.

Also on Wednesday, Iran-allied groups in Iraq announced that they had formed a “joint operations room” to help Hamas in its war effort.

Two officials with Iranian-backed militias in Iraq, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the issue, confirmed the attacks on the two bases Wednesday. They said the armed groups were on alert and prepared to join the wider battle against Israel, but that Iran had not yet given approval for them to open a new front. Leaders from some of the factions are now in Lebanon and Syria in case they get orders to proceed, one of the officials said.

Officials with the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad declined to comment.

Lahib Higel, a senior analyst for Iraq at the International Crisis Group, said in the short term, the Iraqi groups allied with Iran and Hamas are not likely to open a new front in the war, but that could change if the Hamas-Israel war escalates or becomes protracted.

“Geographically, obviously, they are several steps removed, so they’re not going to be the first to react” and are likely to serve in a supporting role, she said.

Renad Mansour, a senior research fellow at the Chatham House, said the Iran-backed groups in Iraq are split between those that are also political parties and have a stake in the Iraqi political system and the “vanguard” groups that are purely militant and tend to be more tightly controlled by Iran.

The latter, he said, have been used in the past as foot soldiers in regional conflicts, including in Yemen and Syria.

“This is what they’re designed to do,” Mansour said. “The question is more, will Iran and some of the leaders of these groups decide it’s in their interest to escalate?”


What's the max age to get drafted again?
 
BEIRUT — Two drones launched at a base hosting U.S. troops in western Iraq were intercepted Wednesday, a U.S. defense official said.

Hours later, an Iraqi militia announced it had launched another drone attack on a second base. No injuries were reported in either incident.

The Islamic Resistance in Iraq, an umbrella group of Iranian-backed militias, issued a statement afterward claiming responsibility for the two attacks and saying it “heralds more operations” against the “American occupation.”

The salvos came at a time of increasing tension and fears of a broader regional conflict in the wake of the latest Hamas-Israel war.

Since the beginning of the war on Oct. 7, much attention has been focused on Hezbollah, the powerful Hamas ally across Israel’s northern border in Lebanon, and its formidable arsenal. The group has traded so-far limited strikes with Israel on the border in recent days.

But Iranian-backed militias in Iraq have also threatened to attack U.S. facilities over American support for Israel.

“Our missiles, drones, and special forces are ready to direct qualitative strikes at the American enemy in its bases and disrupt its interests if it intervenes in this battle,” Ahmad “Abu Hussein” al-Hamidawi, head of the Kataib Hezbollah militia, said in a statement last Wednesday. He also threatened to launch missiles at Israeli targets.

Following Tuesday night’s blast that killed hundreds at a hospital in Gaza, the group issued another statement in which it blamed the U.S. and its support for Israel for the catastrophe and called for an end to the U.S. presence in Iraq. Hamas has said the explosion in Gaza was from an Israeli airstrike, while Israel has blamed a misfired rocket by Palestinian militants.

“These evil people must leave the country. Otherwise, they will taste the fire of hell in this world before the afterlife,” the statement said.

A U.S. defense official, who wasn't authorized to comment to the media and spoke on condition of anonymity, confirmed the attack on the al-Asad military base in western Iraq.

Tashkil al-Waritheen, one of the Iranian-backed militias making up the larger group, claimed responsibility in a statement for a second drone attack, which it said had targeted the al-Harir airbase in northern Iraq. U.S. officials did not immediately comment on the claim of a second attack.

The government of the semi-autonomous Kurdish region in northern Iraq said an intercepted drone crashed in an open area near the village of Batas.

Also on Wednesday, Iran-allied groups in Iraq announced that they had formed a “joint operations room” to help Hamas in its war effort.

Two officials with Iranian-backed militias in Iraq, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the issue, confirmed the attacks on the two bases Wednesday. They said the armed groups were on alert and prepared to join the wider battle against Israel, but that Iran had not yet given approval for them to open a new front. Leaders from some of the factions are now in Lebanon and Syria in case they get orders to proceed, one of the officials said.

Officials with the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad declined to comment.

Lahib Higel, a senior analyst for Iraq at the International Crisis Group, said in the short term, the Iraqi groups allied with Iran and Hamas are not likely to open a new front in the war, but that could change if the Hamas-Israel war escalates or becomes protracted.

“Geographically, obviously, they are several steps removed, so they’re not going to be the first to react” and are likely to serve in a supporting role, she said.

Renad Mansour, a senior research fellow at the Chatham House, said the Iran-backed groups in Iraq are split between those that are also political parties and have a stake in the Iraqi political system and the “vanguard” groups that are purely militant and tend to be more tightly controlled by Iran.

The latter, he said, have been used in the past as foot soldiers in regional conflicts, including in Yemen and Syria.

“This is what they’re designed to do,” Mansour said. “The question is more, will Iran and some of the leaders of these groups decide it’s in their interest to escalate?”


What's the max age to get drafted again?
to be honest i'm not sure, we are hurting for numbers so I think to enlist it's up to like 41 years old.
 
BEIRUT — Two drones launched at a base hosting U.S. troops in western Iraq were intercepted Wednesday, a U.S. defense official said.

Hours later, an Iraqi militia announced it had launched another drone attack on a second base. No injuries were reported in either incident.

The Islamic Resistance in Iraq, an umbrella group of Iranian-backed militias, issued a statement afterward claiming responsibility for the two attacks and saying it “heralds more operations” against the “American occupation.”

The salvos came at a time of increasing tension and fears of a broader regional conflict in the wake of the latest Hamas-Israel war.

Since the beginning of the war on Oct. 7, much attention has been focused on Hezbollah, the powerful Hamas ally across Israel’s northern border in Lebanon, and its formidable arsenal. The group has traded so-far limited strikes with Israel on the border in recent days.

But Iranian-backed militias in Iraq have also threatened to attack U.S. facilities over American support for Israel.

“Our missiles, drones, and special forces are ready to direct qualitative strikes at the American enemy in its bases and disrupt its interests if it intervenes in this battle,” Ahmad “Abu Hussein” al-Hamidawi, head of the Kataib Hezbollah militia, said in a statement last Wednesday. He also threatened to launch missiles at Israeli targets.

Following Tuesday night’s blast that killed hundreds at a hospital in Gaza, the group issued another statement in which it blamed the U.S. and its support for Israel for the catastrophe and called for an end to the U.S. presence in Iraq. Hamas has said the explosion in Gaza was from an Israeli airstrike, while Israel has blamed a misfired rocket by Palestinian militants.

“These evil people must leave the country. Otherwise, they will taste the fire of hell in this world before the afterlife,” the statement said.

A U.S. defense official, who wasn't authorized to comment to the media and spoke on condition of anonymity, confirmed the attack on the al-Asad military base in western Iraq.

Tashkil al-Waritheen, one of the Iranian-backed militias making up the larger group, claimed responsibility in a statement for a second drone attack, which it said had targeted the al-Harir airbase in northern Iraq. U.S. officials did not immediately comment on the claim of a second attack.

The government of the semi-autonomous Kurdish region in northern Iraq said an intercepted drone crashed in an open area near the village of Batas.

Also on Wednesday, Iran-allied groups in Iraq announced that they had formed a “joint operations room” to help Hamas in its war effort.

Two officials with Iranian-backed militias in Iraq, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the issue, confirmed the attacks on the two bases Wednesday. They said the armed groups were on alert and prepared to join the wider battle against Israel, but that Iran had not yet given approval for them to open a new front. Leaders from some of the factions are now in Lebanon and Syria in case they get orders to proceed, one of the officials said.

Officials with the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad declined to comment.

Lahib Higel, a senior analyst for Iraq at the International Crisis Group, said in the short term, the Iraqi groups allied with Iran and Hamas are not likely to open a new front in the war, but that could change if the Hamas-Israel war escalates or becomes protracted.

“Geographically, obviously, they are several steps removed, so they’re not going to be the first to react” and are likely to serve in a supporting role, she said.

Renad Mansour, a senior research fellow at the Chatham House, said the Iran-backed groups in Iraq are split between those that are also political parties and have a stake in the Iraqi political system and the “vanguard” groups that are purely militant and tend to be more tightly controlled by Iran.

The latter, he said, have been used in the past as foot soldiers in regional conflicts, including in Yemen and Syria.

“This is what they’re designed to do,” Mansour said. “The question is more, will Iran and some of the leaders of these groups decide it’s in their interest to escalate?”

Maybe this is more connected to the current events but Iranian-backed militias in Iraq have been firing toward US bases for a long time. If they actually hit a US target that changes things.
 
I often wonder what it was like for people at home during WWII. US troops are literally over the place, fighting here and fighting there. Plus there are a bunch of other important battles going on that don't involve Americans directly but that are crucial to the overall war effort. I guess it's possible to sort of keep it all straight when your only source of news is daily papers and "newsies." Imagine what this would have been like with 24/7 real-time saturation coverage. For six years.

Side note and a lighter story.

My Aunt and Uncle married young, right out of college. (He was an equipment manager for the University of Tennessee and borrowed Johnny Majors' suit for the wedding!)

A month or so after they were married, my Uncle was deployed to Korea in the Korean War.

The only way they had to communicate was by regular mail.

My Aunt said a week or so after he left, she'd wait at the mailbox for the mail delivery person to deliver the mail. She told him about her husband and how she was hoping to hear from him.

Day after day, no mail.

She said it got to a point where he would see her as he walked up and would frown and shake his head "no".

This went on for weeks and she began to wonder all sorts of things. Surely the government would let her know if he'd been killed or captured. What if he'd left my Aunt for another woman in Korea? With no word, she started to imagine and worry about all sorts of things.

Then one day, she saw the mailperson walk up with a huge smile. Carrying some 30+ letters from my Uncle that had been held up for some reason.

I know that's a goofy story. But this topic felt like it could use a smile.
No joke, the content of his letters was being reviewed by the Army.
 
My posts!

I laughed at Ivan for suggesting Elon lessened misinformation. I also laughed at Sand.

@Joe Bryant I know fun was banned a long time ago, was laughing banned too?

All I can go on is what I see with my own two eyes.

Yesterday, nearly everyone in my social media orbit was reminding us all about the "fog of war" and maybe we should hold off a little before jumping to conclusions. At the exact same time, professional journalists employed by the NYT were running with Hamas propaganda that -- as of right now -- appears to be completely discredited.

My people outperformed the professionals. This isn't the first time I've experienced this. This kind of thing simply wasn't possible before Twitter, and it wouldn't have been possible under Twitter's previous moderation regime. I get that your experience may be different. I'm just telling you mine.
Just to clarify, you know Elon didn't invent Twitter and that it existed before he bought it, right?

Are you implying that had he NOT bought it, the previous regime would've censored everything contrary to Hamas's side of the story?

ETA: Asking for clarification more than anything.
I for one, would be shocked. Shocked I tell ya, if the previous regime used Twitter to drive a specific narrative.
 
Is there any evidence whatsoever, other than the word of these two people that I cannot possibly assess, that backs up any of this? Where are the photos of the many dismembered bodies? Where is this decapitated child? That seems awfully on-the-nose given the events of 10/7, so surely is evidence of that. Where is this road that is allegedly covered in body parts and brains? Why isn't anyone being shown any of this? And why is CNN passing it along without corroboration?

Why do random people on Twitter -- all of whom have full time jobs doing something other than journalism -- care more about finding out what actually happened than the professional journalists?
This is shaking out just like the decapitated kids story.

Ignore the main points and focus on the fringe minor details when it suits you.

New York times presented this as a leveled hospital. That is why they used a photo of a totally unrelated location of a leveled building.

Then talking heads latched onto the size of the blast saying hamas rockets don't destroy that much.

So ergo had to be Israeli airstrike. Pretending like they did genuine analysis, but just used the original declaration, from Hamas, to justify their conclusions.

Now it is obvious it wasn't a large explosion. No buildings at all leveled. No hard data regarding casualties. Clear footage of a deviating rocket right before hospital is on fire.

So now the focus shifts to whether or not fake accounts deleted tweets, if somebody is friends with Israeli PM, whirring sound in a cell phone video, if the phone calls Israel released has the right accents, etc.

And the 500 people dead still being repeated regularly.

Even if there are some details that are getting messed up or even lied about, we know the main points of the story are 100% false via video evidence from multiple sources.
 
Why does Israel need armament donations from the US?
Because we'll give.

----

That reminds me of another topic. We've given some 80B over the years to Egypt. Just the other day they refused to allow US citizens through the Gaza gates to get out of the war zone. I hope there are some sincere, severe negative monetary consequences there for that. Absolutely outrageous.
because we don't want Egypt to fall apart. it's not widely reported by the news, but there is regular fighting in the countryside.
I can see that, but it's yet another lever arm to pull.

Maybe I'm a bit myopic, but I believe that the US government's prime directive here is safety and security of US citizens. I'm perfectly fine with us throwing our weight around to push that specific objective even if it screw up others. Egypt survived the Arab Spring; it can survive opening the gate for a low number of American citizens.
 
Grain of salt, of course. Not everything we read is a fact, especially on Twitter right now.
Twitter has to be a mess right now. I’ve only checked my lists which are for topics like Stock Market, NY Jets, local music scene, fantasy football, etc. so I’ve avoided the assumed mess. I get news from AP app and whatever headlines and updates that make CNBC.
I'm proud to say that Twitter feed has performed pretty well the past couple of weeks. For example, I'm reserving judgement on the hospital explosion, but my feed was ahead of (as far as I can tell) every mainstream media source on this one. My social media people very clearly outperformed the professionals at the New York Times, for instance. That's a common experience for me.

If there's on piece of advice I can give to people on navigating social media, it's to seek out people who are interested in getting their facts straight. Once upon a time, for me, that meant people who knew how to look at unemployment/jobs data and interpret them correctly without partisan cheerleading. Then it was people who could look at polling data without partisan cheerleading. Later on it meant people who could look at epidemiological data without partisan cheerleading. Now it's people who seek out on-the-ground information in a war zone without partisan cheerleading. A lot of these folks are highly ideological just like I am -- they just put a higher emphasis on "being right" than "my team wins."

The thing is, these people tend to get this stuff right not because they're experts, but because they're bright people who just practice good informational hygiene. A bunch of the people who I follow are the kind who will say things like "Obviously Hamas is evil, but let's be careful here -- they probably didn't decapitate all forty of those kids, probably just some" not because they like Hamas of course, but because they don't like to say things that turn out to be untrue and we could have known that if we had paid a little more attention.
I deleted the app because it was constantly sending me notifications of tweets for people that I did not follow, and who were posting conspiracy type stuff. I got sick of it.


It's not awesome, but I agree with Ivan....I've gotten accurate info WAY ahead of American "news" by following boots on the ground reporters. Including folks from CNN, Fox, and Al Jazeera. Some people actually still care about truth and not just spin.
I would question some/most news outlets that immediately reported the hospital incident blaming Israel and, since conflicting info being released by Israel, no retractions or corrections in the story. That is not interested in telling the truth. Total benefit if the doubt awarded to Hamas/Gaza. What happened to confirmation?
Such is the state of much of corporate journalism today.
 
From the WSJ:

Photos and videos taken at the site of the blast show that the hospital compound’s buildings haven’t sustained major damage.

The small size of the open area where the explosion occurred, coupled with limited shock-wave damage, was inconsistent with the death toll claimed by the Palestinian Health Ministry, several open-source intelligence analysts said.

“At the moment, the preponderance of evidence does point to it being a Hamas or PIJ rocket hitting the area,” said Blake Spendley, an open-source intelligence analyst. He said videos and photos he has reviewed showing the scene were more consistent with a death toll of about 50 rather than the 500 initially claimed by Hamas.

A shallow crater in a parking lot, which appears in a video of the site on Wednesday, was cited by Israel as evidence that the blast wasn’t an airstrike.
 
Why does Israel need armament donations from the US?
Because we'll give.

----

That reminds me of another topic. We've given some 80B over the years to Egypt. Just the other day they refused to allow US citizens through the Gaza gates to get out of the war zone. I hope there are some sincere, severe negative monetary consequences there for that. Absolutely outrageous.
because we don't want Egypt to fall apart. it's not widely reported by the news, but there is regular fighting in the countryside.
I can see that, but it's yet another lever arm to pull.

Maybe I'm a bit myopic, but I believe that the US government's prime directive here is safety and security of US citizens. I'm perfectly fine with us throwing our weight around to push that specific objective even if it screw up others. Egypt survived the Arab Spring; it can survive opening the gate for a low number of American citizens.

I wasn't trying to comment about the current role, and lack of actions, taken by Egypt.

I was just commenting on why we value their stability, to the degree it is, and why we give them money. recall the world almost shutdown because a cargo ship got stuck at suez canal. can you imagine the hysteria if a terrorist org controlled it?

and before some says, "just go around it and pay the price" ...the extra time it took to ship would require an increase in shipments (length and quantity) that may not be supportable let alone financially advantageous.
 
Why does Israel need armament donations from the US?
Because we'll give.

----

That reminds me of another topic. We've given some 80B over the years to Egypt. Just the other day they refused to allow US citizens through the Gaza gates to get out of the war zone. I hope there are some sincere, severe negative monetary consequences there for that. Absolutely outrageous.
because we don't want Egypt to fall apart. it's not widely reported by the news, but there is regular fighting in the countryside.
I can see that, but it's yet another lever arm to pull.

Maybe I'm a bit myopic, but I believe that the US government's prime directive here is safety and security of US citizens. I'm perfectly fine with us throwing our weight around to push that specific objective even if it screw up others. Egypt survived the Arab Spring; it can survive opening the gate for a low number of American citizens.

I wasn't trying to comment about the current role, and lack of actions, taken by Egypt.

I was just commenting on why we value their stability, to the degree it is, and why we give them money. recall the world almost shutdown because a cargo ship got stuck at suez canal. can you imagine the hysteria if a terrorist org controlled it?

and before some says, "just go around it and pay the price" ...the extra time it took to ship would require an increase in shipments (length and quantity) that may not be supportable let alone financially advantageous.

Right. Everyone is all for staying out of foreign affairs that affect us until the price of lettuce goes up 5 cents and then it's time for a panic.
 
Please, let's not get into slights at who is respected and who is not respected.
It seemed he was talking generally - and why is his opinion worse than some of the others that are so sure they're right.

I appreciate what you're trying to do, but this is a poor example of an example to make imo.

I'm speaking to everyone. Not him.
My bad - it looked very much like you replying to a particular post. I guess quoting it and then quoting text from it in your response fooled me.

No worries. I edited to make sure it was clear. Lots of times I'll see a post that makes me think of something I'm saying to everyone. Didn't mean to make it confusing and wasn't trying to fool you.
 
30 years ago we saw a young Kuwaiti girl testify before congress that she personally witnesses Iraqi soldiers going from one hospital to another tearing babies from incubators and leaving them to die. Our president referred to this in a fiery speech and we were all outraged. Years later we learned the 15 year old witness was the daughter of a Washington diplomat whose story was fabricated. Ten years later we saw a respected Secretary of State hold up a vial of some white substance on television and say “every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we're giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence.” as he lead us into another war and again it was much later we learned his words were 100% false and fabricated. Yesterday I read that Israel had bombed a hospital full of innocents. Later I read that it was actually a terrorist hideout so it was ok and I felt better about it. Then I heard it wasn’t Israel’s missile at all, but was an Arab missile gone awry that struck the hospital, killing 500 people, or maybe 100. Then I read it was not a mistake, but was terrorists intentionally targeting their own people for reasons. Some are now saying it wasn’t much of an explosion at all and very few were hurt. There’s at least a 50% chance we’ll learn today the footage everyone is analyzing is from 10 years ago at some conflict on a different continent. I read our president has directed his staff to conduct an investigation and get to the bottom of this so we can properly assign our blame and outrage.

The commentary I respect are those who are pointing out that none of this matters. These people have been slaughtering each other my entire life and will be doing so long after I die. I could not care less which children were killed yesterday and who did the killing because tomorrow the same will happen again. The commentary I don’t respect are those claiming they know exactly what happened and are undeniably on the right side of history in this and anyone who acknowledges an historical moral grey area are the ignorants.
All my likes

❤️
:banned:

Thanks @CletiusMaximus
 
How can all of these revised media reports still be declaring 500 people dead???

There might literally be zero.
Here's what CNN is currently reporting on this topic:

Editor's Note: This post contains graphic descriptions of violence.

Two witnesses of the deadly blast Tuesday at the Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital in Gaza described the scene after the explosion, which the Hamas-controlled Palestinian Ministry of Health has said killed hundreds of people.

One, a doctor who is working with Doctors Without Borders and said he was inside the hospital at the time, described in a post on Facebook seeing "many dismembered bodies" following the blast, including a decapitated child.

The doctor, Dr. Ghassan Abu-Sitteh, said he believed the overall death toll would "continue to increase."

Another witness, Adnan, told CNN the devastation that followed the blast was "beyond normal."

“If you look over there on the roads, there are body parts all over it, heads and hands of people, hands and brains of children," said Adnan, who would give only his first name. "It is truly indescribable.”

Adnan pointed out everyday items within the wreckage, like mattresses, pillows, children's shoes and diapers.

“Look, what kind of danger does a mattress and a pillow pose to Israel? What fault did the trees and rocks make? Come here, look," Adnan said, pointing out shoes and diapers. "It was full of supplies for people."
Some context: CNN cannot independently confirm what caused the blast nor the extent of casualties.

Gaza officials blamed Israel, while the Israel Defense Forces said it was the result of a failed rocket launch by Islamic Jihad. That group denied the Israeli assertion.

The US government currently believes that Israel "is not responsible" for the blast, according to the National Security Council.

Is there any evidence whatsoever, other than the word of these two people that I cannot possibly assess, that backs up any of this? Where are the photos of the many dismembered bodies? Where is this decapitated child? That seems awfully on-the-nose given the events of 10/7, so surely is evidence of that. Where is this road that is allegedly covered in body parts and brains? Why isn't anyone being shown any of this? And why is CNN passing it along without corroboration?

Why do random people on Twitter -- all of whom have full time jobs doing something other than journalism -- care more about finding out what actually happened than the professional journalists?
Could certainly be propaganda but some doctors (supposedly) held a press conference among the bodies outside of the al-ahli arab hospital.
 
FWIW.....The only place I've seen this number of 500 is here in the FFA

Yesterday Breaking News Email fromThe New York Times

BREAKING NEWS

At least 500 people were killed by an Israeli airstrike at a Gaza hospital, the Palestinian Health Ministry said.
This is current and from a MSM source:

Oct 18 (Reuters) - A blast at a Gaza hospital killed hundreds of Palestinians just before U.S. President Joe Biden visited Israel as the conflict between the Israeli military and the Hamas militant group raged.

Yeah, maybe not 500, but the implication is multiple hundreds which is also unsupported by evidence.

 
How can all of these revised media reports still be declaring 500 people dead???

There might literally be zero.
Here's what CNN is currently reporting on this topic:

Editor's Note: This post contains graphic descriptions of violence.

Two witnesses of the deadly blast Tuesday at the Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital in Gaza described the scene after the explosion, which the Hamas-controlled Palestinian Ministry of Health has said killed hundreds of people.

One, a doctor who is working with Doctors Without Borders and said he was inside the hospital at the time, described in a post on Facebook seeing "many dismembered bodies" following the blast, including a decapitated child.

The doctor, Dr. Ghassan Abu-Sitteh, said he believed the overall death toll would "continue to increase."

Another witness, Adnan, told CNN the devastation that followed the blast was "beyond normal."

“If you look over there on the roads, there are body parts all over it, heads and hands of people, hands and brains of children," said Adnan, who would give only his first name. "It is truly indescribable.”

Adnan pointed out everyday items within the wreckage, like mattresses, pillows, children's shoes and diapers.

“Look, what kind of danger does a mattress and a pillow pose to Israel? What fault did the trees and rocks make? Come here, look," Adnan said, pointing out shoes and diapers. "It was full of supplies for people."
Some context: CNN cannot independently confirm what caused the blast nor the extent of casualties.

Gaza officials blamed Israel, while the Israel Defense Forces said it was the result of a failed rocket launch by Islamic Jihad. That group denied the Israeli assertion.

The US government currently believes that Israel "is not responsible" for the blast, according to the National Security Council.

Is there any evidence whatsoever, other than the word of these two people that I cannot possibly assess, that backs up any of this? Where are the photos of the many dismembered bodies? Where is this decapitated child? That seems awfully on-the-nose given the events of 10/7, so surely is evidence of that. Where is this road that is allegedly covered in body parts and brains? Why isn't anyone being shown any of this? And why is CNN passing it along without corroboration?

Why do random people on Twitter -- all of whom have full time jobs doing something other than journalism -- care more about finding out what actually happened than the professional journalists?
Could certainly be propaganda but some doctors (supposedly) held a press conference among the bodies outside of the al-ahli arab hospital.

And yet no one can post a link to a pic of all those bodies and/or even a written confirmation of someone seeing this news conference amongst them?
 
If Elon Musk had not bought Twitter, the NYT would probably still be running with "Israel Bombs Hospital" and we would have not way of knowing otherwise.
It's important for leading news organizations to be judicious and verify facts before publishing stories. Notable that IK left off the "Palestinians say" part of the headline that correctly attributed the accusation to the Palestinian Health Organization. In a post critical of the NYT for getting the headline wrong, IK misrepresented the headline. In my opinion the headline, even while technically accurate, misled readers. The NYT should do better.

That said, the idea that reporting will be perfect in real time during conflict is unrealistic. Fog of war explains this error, and subsequently the NYTimes has revised their headline and provided additional reporting clarifying what happened at the hospital. That's because the NYT has high editorial standards and works harder that any other news organization on the planet to get its stories correct. I.e. they are acting in good faith, and over time, deserve the benefit of the doubt.

The idea that randoms on Elon Musk's twitter are more reliable than the NYT is weird. That's the equivalent of me claiming to be better than professional Vegas odds setters because I picked the Browns to beat the 49ers last weekend. Discrediting entire institutions due to good faith errors is one of the reasons we see so much chaos currently.
 
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