War in Israel (3 Viewers)

[IvanKaramazov]

If Elon Musk had not bought Twitter, the NYT would probably still be running with "Israel Bombs Hospital" and we would have not way of knowing otherwise.

 

[parasaurolophus]

If Elon Musk had not bought Twitter, the NYT would probably still be running with "Israel Bombs Hospital" and we would have not way of knowing otherwise.

Yep.

I would be shocked if ten people actually died here. This was basically a bad parking lot fire.

Unreal.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Here is another article on the neighboring Arab nations refusing to take on Palestinian refugees.

What are the reasons for the continued refusal by essentially every single Arabic nation on the planet? Is there not one willing to take these people in? If not, why not?

All the neighboring countries have taken Palestinian refugees in the past - do you think they should continue to do so, without limitations?

Do you think there are legitimate reasons why this wave of refugees might be treated a little differently?

Do all Islamic and/or countries have a responsibility to aid these refugees? Do we hold other religions or ethnicities to this standard?

I don’t have answers to any of those questions.

There are quite a few Arab countries that share the same viewpoints as Hamas and refuse to recognize Israel as a Jewish State. They are very supportive of the things that Hamas does right up until it requires that they help the actual people of Gaza.

There ain't many that take in refugees. Here are some Palestinian asylum applications and acceptances numbers from 2022 in Arab countries:

Libya, 416 applied, 0 accepted
Algeria, 42 applied, 0 accepted
Yemen, 18 applied, 0 accepted
Tunisia, 15 applied, 0 accepted
Morocco, 5 applied, 5 accepted

Those are just the ones to which that Palestinians apply. Other Arab countries like, Bahrain, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Qatar, SA, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, UAE aren't even listed-I assume because the Palestinians don't bother trying.

So, yes, I think there could be more refugees taken in than the 5 listed above. Any country that supports Hamas, and therefore the bad thing that happen to the people of Gaza should have some responsibility, yes.

Thanks for the detailed response. Depending on the political and economic circumstances of the receiving country, I’m sure its far more complocated.

In your opinion, what country(ies) most rightfully should accept them? Maybe Iran, but they’re not even Arabic.

I'd start with Jordan.

Why?

There's more Palestinians in Jordan than there are in Gaza.

Is that how we determine the appropriateness of asylum with other refugees? I honestly have no idea.

Well, think about it this way, the top refugee accepting countries are Greece, Belgium and Germany. I'm sure you've read about the cultures and customs of Syrian refugees not really meshing well with the cultures of Germany, for instance. If assimilation is not possible (and its not. Only in America is that truly possible) Jordanians look the same, speak the same, worship the same god, have the same customs. Assimilation is not necessary, they ALREADY ARE. Of course that's the most appropriate answer.

Not quite accurate. Sending Palestinians to Jordan would be akin to having a country being run by The Squad and then having 2M Trump supporters sent there. Yes, they have the same religion but their political ideology is on opposite sides of the spectrum.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Please don't steer this to PSF territory.

Please keep this on topic.

 

[Harry Manback]

If Elon Musk had not bought Twitter, the NYT would probably still be running with "Israel Bombs Hospital" and we would have not way of knowing otherwise.

You're joking right?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

If Elon Musk had not bought Twitter, the NYT would probably still be running with "Israel Bombs Hospital" and we would have not way of knowing otherwise.

You're joking right?

No.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

30 years ago we saw a young Kuwaiti girl testify before congress that she personally witnesses Iraqi soldiers going from one hospital to another tearing babies from incubators and leaving them to die. Our president referred to this in a fiery speech and we were all outraged. Years later we learned the 15 year old witness was the daughter of a Washington diplomat whose story was fabricated. Ten years later we saw a respected Secretary of State hold up a vial of some white substance on television and say “every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we're giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence.” as he lead us into another war and again it was much later we learned his words were 100% false and fabricated. Yesterday I read that Israel had bombed a hospital full of innocents. Later I read that it was actually a terrorist hideout so it was ok and I felt better about it. Then I heard it wasn’t Israel’s missile at all, but was an Arab missile gone awry that struck the hospital, killing 500 people, or maybe 100. Then I read it was not a mistake, but was terrorists intentionally targeting their own people for reasons. Some are now saying it wasn’t much of an explosion at all and very few were hurt. There’s at least a 50% chance we’ll learn today the footage everyone is analyzing is from 10 years ago at some conflict on a different continent. I read our president has directed his staff to conduct an investigation and get to the bottom of this so we can properly assign our blame and outrage.

The commentary I respect are those who are pointing out that none of this matters. These people have been slaughtering each other my entire life and will be doing so long after I die. I could not care less which children were killed yesterday and who did the killing because tomorrow the same will happen again. The commentary I don’t respect are those claiming they know exactly what happened and are undeniably on the right side of history in this and anyone who acknowledges an historical moral grey area are the ignorants.

 

[Sand]

Audio released of the hospital bombing.

https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1714548529538953637?t=9mqDWUZp3cGKjJ4a1g2jaw&s=19

 

[Sand]

If Elon Musk had not bought Twitter, the NYT would probably still be running with "Israel Bombs Hospital" and we would have not way of knowing otherwise.

You're joking right?

No.

Definitely.

 

[The Z Machine]

The commentary I don’t respect are those claiming they know exactly what happened and are undeniably on the right side of history in this and anyone who acknowledges an historical moral grey area are the ignorants.

This 100%.

No party has the right to claim the high moral ground here. All are part of the same cycle of death, destruction, terror, subjugation, and brainwashing. There are no easy solutions here. Heck, there might not even be hard solutions. My only thoughts in this area is that I hope as few innocents die as possible and that active military engagements end as soon as possible.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

30 years ago we saw a young Kuwaiti girl testify before congress that she personally witnesses Iraqi soldiers going from one hospital to another tearing babies from incubators and leaving them to die. Our president referred to this in a fiery speech and we were all outraged. Years later we learned the 15 year old witness was the daughter of a Washington diplomat whose story was fabricated. Ten years later we saw a respected Secretary of State hold up a vial of some white substance on television and say “every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we're giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence.” as he lead us into another war and again it was much later we learned his words were 100% false and fabricated. Yesterday I read that Israel had bombed a hospital full of innocents. Later I read that it was actually a terrorist hideout so it was ok and I felt better about it. Then I heard it wasn’t Israel’s missile at all, but was an Arab missile gone awry that struck the hospital, killing 500 people, or maybe 100. Then I read it was not a mistake, but was terrorists intentionally targeting their own people for reasons. Some are now saying it wasn’t much of an explosion at all and very few were hurt. There’s at least a 50% chance we’ll learn today the footage everyone is analyzing is from 10 years ago at some conflict on a different continent. I read our president has directed his staff to conduct an investigation and get to the bottom of this so we can properly assign our blame and outrage.

The commentary I respect are those who are pointing out that none of this matters. These people have been slaughtering each other my entire life and will be doing so long after I die. I could not care less which children were killed yesterday and who did the killing because tomorrow the same will happen again. The commentary I don’t respect are those claiming they know exactly what happened and are undeniably on the right side of history in this and anyone who acknowledges an historical moral grey area are the ignorants.

I remember this extremely well. When the first stories came out about Hamas terrorists beheading children, this is exactly the anecdote that my mind zoomed back to, and based on that, I figured there was a high chance that that story would turn out to be BS. Unfortunately it wasn't. That actually happened.

With the hospital, there are actually photos of this right now. Maybe the photos that are circulating this morning are fabricated. AI is certainly capable of doing that. But right now, it appears that the hospital in question was not bombed and is not destroyed. 500 people did not die last night, which is obviously a good thing. Some cars got blown up in a parking lot. While we don't know anything with certainty right now, this looks exactly like what you'd expect from a very weak rocket that misfired and nothing at all like an intentional bombing run on a target that was supposed to get destroyed. (Edit: If these photos are fake and the IDF is lying and the hospital actually was destroyed by an Israeli bomb, I absolutely want to know that.)

You should not respect people who are telling you that this sort of thing doesn't matter. Propaganda drives narratives. The President of the United States was turned away from Jordan last night because of misinformation. Embassies are going to be protested today because of misinformation. People are probably going to get killed because of people who believed misinformation about the IDF intentionally destroying a hospital. Getting the facts straight matters, and we should have nothing but contempt for people who don't care about accuracy.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The commentary I respect are those who are pointing out that none of this matters. These people have been slaughtering each other my entire life and will be doing so long after I die. I could not care less which children were killed yesterday and who did the killing because tomorrow the same will happen again. The commentary I don’t respect are those claiming they know exactly what happened and are undeniably on the right side of history in this and anyone who acknowledges an historical moral grey area are the ignorants.

I'll say this as a last-ditch effort to keep this thread open and not get it locked.

Please, everyone, not just the quoted poster, let's not get into slights at who is respected and who is not respected.

I think lots of people do care about children being killed. And people do think some of this matters.

I agree with you that we all should take a humble approach to this, knowing there's a ton we likely don't know.

I also don't know that everything has to be "fine people on both sides". People can share opinions and insights. That's mostly what we do here. But I agree a dose of humility that we're not all-knowing is good for all of us. Especially me.

Let's please keep this back on track of discussing the actual topic and events.

Edited to be more clear.

 

[The Z Machine]

Getting the facts straight matters

I would agree. But the fog of war is real, plus the propaganda and mis/dis information space is growing rapidly. It can be very challenging to get the facts straight.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Please, let's not get into slights at who is respected and who is not respected.

It seemed he was talking generally - and why is his opinion worse than some of the others that are so sure they're right.

I appreciate what you're trying to do, but this is a poor example of an example to make imo.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Please, let's not get into slights at who is respected and who is not respected.

It seemed he was talking generally - and why is his opinion worse than some of the others that are so sure they're right.

I appreciate what you're trying to do, but this is a poor example of an example to make imo.

I'm speaking to everyone. Not him.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Please, let's not get into slights at who is respected and who is not respected.

It seemed he was talking generally - and why is his opinion worse than some of the others that are so sure they're right.

I appreciate what you're trying to do, but this is a poor example of an example to make imo.

I'm speaking to everyone. Not him.

My bad - it looked very much like you replying to a particular post. I guess quoting it and then quoting text from it in your response fooled me.

 

[Harry Manback]

My posts!

I laughed at Ivan for suggesting Elon lessened misinformation. I also laughed at Sand.

@Joe Bryant I know fun was banned a long time ago, was laughing banned too?

A guide to Elon Musk’s latest battle over disinformation on X

Europe’s probe into harmful content on X about the Israel-Hamas war tests a new law that could reshape the internet.

www.vox.com

Elon Musk Isn’t Just Enabling Misinformation About the Israel-Hamas War—He’s Fueling It Himself

The owner of X boosted a doctored video of a CNN war correspondent that falsely suggests she was an actor who didn’t need to take cover from a missile salvo.

www.vanityfair.com

Elon Musk's fact-checking system delayed Israel corrections for days

X's CEO has said the platform was increasing Community Note publishing speed.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Harry Manback]

So yeah, it's laughable to think Elon would be the cause of less anti-Israeli information when he's literally responsible for it.

 

[The Commish]

If Elon Musk had not bought Twitter, the NYT would probably still be running with "Israel Bombs Hospital" and we would have not way of knowing otherwise.

IK....GB, this is just nonsense. There are dozens and dozens of legit sources out there to get news/information from.

 

[Bozeman Bruiser]

The commentary I don’t respect are those claiming they know exactly what happened and are undeniably on the right side of history in this and anyone who acknowledges an historical moral grey area are the ignorants.

I have to disagree with your last statement.

I watched a video the other day that is available on Twitter if anyone thinks I am making this up. It showed an infant that was fried to a crisp and looked like a charcoal briquette. Several beheaded IDF or Kibbutz security. A Filipino begging for his life while someone hacked his neck with a garden hoe while yelling allahu akbar. Old ladies dragged from their car and executed. Young ladies in their festival dresses laying in pools of blood. A truck bed filled with a dozen adult charcoal briquettes. A truck bed with a naked woman whose leg looked worse than Nick Chubbs, maybe dead maybe alive, while surrounded by people cheering like they just won the World Cup.

Anyone who tries to justify or ignore that with a "historical grey area" is either ignorant or evil.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

My posts!

I laughed at Ivan for suggesting Elon lessened misinformation. I also laughed at Sand.

@Joe Bryant I know fun was banned a long time ago, was laughing banned too?

A guide to Elon Musk’s latest battle over disinformation on X

Europe’s probe into harmful content on X about the Israel-Hamas war tests a new law that could reshape the internet.

www.vox.com

Elon Musk Isn’t Just Enabling Misinformation About the Israel-Hamas War—He’s Fueling It Himself

The owner of X boosted a doctored video of a CNN war correspondent that falsely suggests she was an actor who didn’t need to take cover from a missile salvo.

www.vanityfair.com

Elon Musk's fact-checking system delayed Israel corrections for days

X's CEO has said the platform was increasing Community Note publishing speed.

www.nbcnews.com

All I can go on is what I see with my own two eyes.

Yesterday, nearly everyone in my social media orbit was reminding us all about the "fog of war" and maybe we should hold off a little before jumping to conclusions. At the exact same time, professional journalists employed by the NYT were running with Hamas propaganda that -- as of right now -- appears to be completely discredited.

My people outperformed the professionals. This isn't the first time I've experienced this. This kind of thing simply wasn't possible before Twitter, and it wouldn't have been possible under Twitter's previous moderation regime. I get that your experience may be different. I'm just telling you mine.

 

[Harry Manback]

Acting like Elon Musk turned Twitter into a bastion of free speech is easily the most ridiculous thing I've read today, and I was on reddit reading a thread about the Israeli/Palestinian war.

 

[Harry Manback]

My posts!

I laughed at Ivan for suggesting Elon lessened misinformation. I also laughed at Sand.

@Joe Bryant I know fun was banned a long time ago, was laughing banned too?

A guide to Elon Musk’s latest battle over disinformation on X

Europe’s probe into harmful content on X about the Israel-Hamas war tests a new law that could reshape the internet.

www.vox.com

Elon Musk Isn’t Just Enabling Misinformation About the Israel-Hamas War—He’s Fueling It Himself

The owner of X boosted a doctored video of a CNN war correspondent that falsely suggests she was an actor who didn’t need to take cover from a missile salvo.

www.vanityfair.com

Elon Musk's fact-checking system delayed Israel corrections for days

X's CEO has said the platform was increasing Community Note publishing speed.

www.nbcnews.com

All I can go on is what I see with my own two eyes.

Yesterday, nearly everyone in my social media orbit was reminding us all about the "fog of war" and maybe we should hold off a little before jumping to conclusions. At the exact same time, professional journalists employed by the NYT were running with Hamas propaganda that -- as of right now -- appears to be completely discredited.

My people outperformed the professionals. This isn't the first time I've experienced this. This kind of thing simply wasn't possible before Twitter, and it wouldn't have been possible under Twitter's previous moderation regime. I get that your experience may be different. I'm just telling you mine.

Bully for your experience. Facts are that there is MORE misinformation now than before. And unfortunately for you, facts don't care about your feelings.

 

[Fat Nick]

@Joe Bryant I know fun was banned a long time ago, was laughing banned too?

Not all of us find all this bickering back and forth about media sources fun. A lot of us come here to find information on what's going on in Israel and ask questions that further our understanding of the situation. I don't care what the media source is or which way it biases...it's information and I welcome people to share it. It's the responsibility of each person reading it to understand the possible spin on the sources provided, and educate themselves on that opinion and counter-opinions and form their own educated stance.

That's not possible (or as easily possible) if this thread gets shut down because of bickering. Please guys - let's get back to information sharing and the discussion we had in the first 25 pages (more or less). I'm 100000% with JB here - politicization is what takes the fun out discussions like this.

 

[Harry Manback]

@Joe Bryant I know fun was banned a long time ago, was laughing banned too?

Not all of us find all this bickering back and forth about media sources fun. A lot of us come here to find information on what's going on in Israel and ask questions that further our understanding of the situation. I don't care what the media source is or which way it biases...it's information and I welcome people to share it. It's the responsibility of each person reading it to understand the possible spin on the sources provided, and educate themselves on that opinion and counter-opinions and form their own educated stance.

That's not possible (or as easily possible) if this thread gets shut down because of bickering. Please guys - let's get back to information sharing and the discussion we had in the first 25 pages (more or less). I'm 100000% with JB here - politicization is what takes the fun out discussions like this.

Well if it’s not fun for you by all means suppress it. This place was never known for free speech

 

[Harry Manback]

@Joe Bryant I know fun was banned a long time ago, was laughing banned too?

Not all of us find all this bickering back and forth about media sources fun. A lot of us come here to find information on what's going on in Israel and ask questions that further our understanding of the situation. I don't care what the media source is or which way it biases...it's information and I welcome people to share it. It's the responsibility of each person reading it to understand the possible spin on the sources provided, and educate themselves on that opinion and counter-opinions and form their own educated stance.

That's not possible (or as easily possible) if this thread gets shut down because of bickering. Please guys - let's get back to information sharing and the discussion we had in the first 25 pages (more or less). I'm 100000% with JB here - politicization is what takes the fun out discussions like this.

And how is discussing the accuracy of news political? Hint: people like you are the problem.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

And how is discussing the accuracy of news political? Hint: people like you are the problem.

But, right or wrong, you're going to be the one to get this thread shut down with your "hint".

 

[Harry Manback]

And how is discussing the accuracy of news political? Hint: people like you are the problem.

But, right or wrong, you're going to be the one to get this thread shut down with your "hint".

I’m constantly in awe at how soft people here are.

Guess what? People who see political things everywhere, especially where there aren’t political things, ARE the problem. Sorry, babe.

 

[unckeyherb]

Welp, I guess we can't have nice things. See you guys!

 

[massraider]

This thread is a good read, with pics, that supports the theory that a failed Hamas rocket struck the hospital.

Looks like it mainly hit a parking lot

 

[parasaurolophus]

’m constantly in awe at how soft people here are.

Guess what? People who see political things everywhere, especially where there aren’t political things, ARE the problem. Sorry, babe.

Joe I just want to point out that collective punishment is against international law.

 

[Joe Bryant]

And how is discussing the accuracy of news political? Hint: people like you are the problem.

But, right or wrong, you're going to be the one to get this thread shut down with your "hint".

I’m constantly in awe at how soft people here are.

Guess what? People who see political things everywhere, especially where there aren’t political things, ARE the problem. Sorry, babe.

Please don't do this.

 

[rockaction]

I'd personally like this to be a thread about news stories and stories related to the war. I perhaps needed to check myself before my last comment in this thread. I was going with the discussion, but I can see where arguing over the truth of the hospital bombing will inevitably get political.

Then again, I don't know how to assess the truth of the story without arguing over the sources and both the perceived and actual accuracy of those facts therein when the facts aren't really known and probably will never be known.

There is a fog of war. I wasn't aware it had become a partisan issue that war is often dizzying and morally ambiguous. I'm not sure where that has been turned into a talking point other than if relativists have co-opted it to try and make sure one can't intellectually weigh the facts and come to an honest public or private conclusion about which side to support. That seems like an activist tactic and an abuse of a useful concept that has proven true over my lifetime.

Let's keep the thread open with news stories like massraider just did. That's all I have for you all.

 

[massraider]

Per White House pool report traveling w/ @POTUS in Israel: "POTUS was asked as pool was leaving what makes you sure Israel wasn’t behind explosion in Gaza? He said, 'The data I was shown by my defense department.'”

https://twitter.com/DavidMDrucker/status/1714632181165777157?t=OTJftTSVSkBilQLvN6OkzA&s=19

 

[parasaurolophus]

This thread is a good read, with pics, that supports the theory that a failed Hamas rocket struck the hospital.

Looks like it mainly hit a parking lot

Almost all the trees are fine. Not one building destroyed. There is all sorts of footage out there now. Easily authenticated as being the hospital. The buildings with solar panels are super identifiable via Google maps.

 

[SWC]

if nothing else this thread has highlighted why it was a good thing to kill the psf take that to the bank brohans

 

[jamny]

if nothing else this thread has highlighted why it was a good thing to kill the psf take that to the bank brohans

Posts like this don't help keeping this thread open.

 

[massraider]

Let's keep the thread open with news stories like massraider just did. That's all I have for you all.

If someone here is reading along, just learning about this conflict, don't be in a rush to have an answer, figure out who is "correct", or justified. Also, everyone knows this, but right after a terrible thing happens is not the time to seek subjective opinions about the history in this part of the world.

It is completely OK to follow the story, and not have an answer. It's a GD mess.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I’m constantly in awe at how soft people here are.

whatever - it's not my site.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

And how is discussing the accuracy of news political? Hint: people like you are the problem.

But, right or wrong, you're going to be the one to get this thread shut down with your "hint".

I’m constantly in awe at how soft people here are.

Guess what? People who see political things everywhere, especially where there aren’t political things, ARE the problem. Sorry, babe.

Please don't do this.

I'm not advocating anyone being banned - but in a case like this when someone comes in and firebombs the thread like this (obviously knowing what he's doing), can we eliminate that person rather than shut down the thread?

 

[Joe Bryant]

And how is discussing the accuracy of news political? Hint: people like you are the problem.

But, right or wrong, you're going to be the one to get this thread shut down with your "hint".

I’m constantly in awe at how soft people here are.

Guess what? People who see political things everywhere, especially where there aren’t political things, ARE the problem. Sorry, babe.

Please don't do this.

I'm not advocating anyone being banned - but in a case like this when someone comes in and firebombs the thread like this (obviously knowing what he's doing), can we eliminate that person rather than shut down the thread?

Yes. One person going off track is pretty easy. Where the whole thread gets locked is if lots of people jump in and engages the person and then the whole thread gets off the rails.

Doing what y'all did here and not joining the person trying to derail it was the right move. Thanks.

 

[Sand]

The one thing I can say about the news is that Ukraine might as well be Edinburgh of the Seven Seas right now. *Poof* gone.

If he wasn't dead already Putin would kiss the Hamas leader full on the lips.

 

[The Z Machine]

Why does Israel need armament donations from the US? Ukraine I understand. They got invaded by Russia. The IDF should buy their own, no?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The one thing I can say about the news is that Ukraine might as well be Edinburgh of the Seven Seas right now. *Poof* gone.

If he wasn't dead already Putin would kiss the Hamas leader full on the lips.

I often wonder what it was like for people at home during WWII. US troops are literally over the place, fighting here and fighting there. Plus there are a bunch of other important battles going on that don't involve Americans directly but that are crucial to the overall war effort. I guess it's possible to sort of keep it all straight when your only source of news is daily papers and "newsies." Imagine what this would have been like with 24/7 real-time saturation coverage. For six years.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Why does Israel need armament donations from the US? Ukraine I understand. They got invaded by Russia. The IDF should buy their own, no?

I wondered the same thing. Like don't we already give them a bunch of aid and have given a bunch of aid in the past?

 

[Sand]

Why does Israel need armament donations from the US?

Because we'll give.

----

That reminds me of another topic. We've given some 80B over the years to Egypt. Just the other day they refused to allow US citizens through the Gaza gates to get out of the war zone. I hope there are some sincere, severe negative monetary consequences there for that. Absolutely outrageous.

 

[The Z Machine]

Just the other day they refused to allow US citizens through the Gaza gates to get out of the war zone.

Eh, I'm willing to cut them slack on this. If their stance is no one gets through, not pregnant women, not babies with family on the other side, then we can't ask for US passport holders to get priority there.

 

[SWC]

if nothing else this thread has highlighted why it was a good thing to kill the psf take that to the bank brohans

Posts like this don't help keeping this thread open.

i disagree what doesnt help keep this thread open are the posts that make mine correct take that to the bank brohan

 

[Todem]

The commentary I don’t respect are those claiming they know exactly what happened and are undeniably on the right side of history in this and anyone who acknowledges an historical moral grey area are the ignorants.

I have to disagree with your last statement.

I watched a video the other day that is available on Twitter if anyone thinks I am making this up. It showed an infant that was fried to a crisp and looked like a charcoal briquette. Several beheaded IDF or Kibbutz security. A Filipino begging for his life while someone hacked his neck with a garden hoe while yelling allahu akbar. Old ladies dragged from their car and executed. Young ladies in their festival dresses laying in pools of blood. A truck bed filled with a dozen adult charcoal briquettes. A truck bed with a naked woman whose leg looked worse than Nick Chubbs, maybe dead maybe alive, while surrounded by people cheering like they just won the World Cup.

Anyone who tries to justify or ignore that with a "historical grey area" is either ignorant or evil.

I will just also say this.

In every single war since the creation of Israel.....who attacked first? Every single solitary time.

So to color some historical facts into the discussion taking place in this thread. And BTW thank you @Joe Bryant for being so graceful as this is a real dark moment in our history. I have wept with my family over the phone several times this week as news of friends being slaughtered have come in. We had several people we know murdered. I can’t even begin to explain the feelings running through our souls right now.

This is about the survival of Israel. A free, democratic country that has been attacked first in every single conflict on record since she was granted to the people of Israel by the United Nations on May 14th 1948:

1948 - Arab-Israel War
1948-1967 -Fedayeen
1967 - Six Day War
1967-1970 - War of Attrition
1973 - Yom Kippur War
1971-1982 - Palestinian Insuregency in South Lebanon
1985-2000 - South Lebanon Conflict
1987-1993 - First Intifada
2000-2005 - Second Intifada
2006 - Lebanon War
2008 - Gaza War
2012 - Israeli Gaza Operation
2014 - Gaza War
2021 - Israel Palestine Crisis
2023 - Israel Hamas War

In every single war I have listed above......Israel was attacked and forced to respond and defend her existence. Every single solitary time.

President Bidens Speech today was so needed. I and many of my brothers and sisters needed to hear that again. To know The United States has Israels back.

He made it crystal clear yet again......anyone else thinking of hoping to take advantage of the current War on Hamas and join in against Israel.

Don’t.....Don’t.....Don’t

 

[parasaurolophus]

Just the other day they refused to allow US citizens through the Gaza gates to get out of the war zone.

Eh, I'm willing to cut them slack on this. If their stance is no one gets through, not pregnant women, not babies with family on the other side, then we can't ask for US passport holders to get priority there.

Of course we can.