What should we do about homeless people? (1 Viewer)

[Maurile Tremblay]

It is dignified work resulting in a steady income stream for 75-80% of the homeless populations.

Focus on that first and then migrate to housing costs/supply.

Joblessness induces homelessness, and homelessness induces joblessness. It goes in both directions, and I think it makes sense to address the problem from both ends.

If you want people to get off the street, help them get a job so they can afford rent.

If you want people to get a job, help them find a place to sleep and shower so they're not laughed out of the job interview.

 

[Manster]

They do micro shelters up here in OR for folks who are trying to get off the streets, and back in society.  They help em get services, jobs, etc.....the ones where I live are run by Church at the Park.  People complain about em being in their backyard, but it's a solution for some homeless people.

Beyond that, the mentally unhealthy, and drug addicts need to be housed in treatment facilities.  I think the big increase we are seeing falls in this category.  It's a large burden on the tax payers, but imo, the best solution.

 

[Stoneworker]

Joblessness induces homelessness, and homelessness induces joblessness. It goes in both directions, and I think it makes sense to address the problem from both ends.

If you want people to get off the street, help them get a job so they can afford rent.

If you want people to get a job, help them find a place to sleep and shower so they're not laughed out of the job interview.

Your starting assumption is that all homeless actually have a strong desire to work, but for some reason beyond their control they end up jobless.

Anyone who has poured time and energy attempting to help someone improve themselves, who then refuses that help and/or does not put in the required effort on their own, knows that that assumption is fundamentally flawed.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Things like safe needles are a good example of how this is difficult. Rational people on both sides can make points. It's not an easy decision. There are lots more like that.

The other thing is I believe it's not just about money. 

It's how that money is applied to solutions. 

I’m not sure this is true.

I’ve been volunteering with orgs in NYC which ameliorate homelessness since 2015. As many of you are aware - I have shared my story from time to time here and in the FFA - I was homeless from October 1, 2018 until November 24, 2020. I continue to work with veterans and other at risk groups.

During the first 6 years of the Deblasio administration (1/1/2014-12/31/2019) the total program spending nearly doubled from $1.5Bn to $2.9Bn. That’s across all sectors: private, public, fed/state/local. Not sure what has happened since the pandemic began.

During the period I cited, we did not see an appreciable drop in overall homelessness. IME / IMO the level of care given did not qualitatively improve. There are less program enrollees in alcohol and drug abuse programs. There are just as many children (fluctuates between 20-25K per night) in the shelter system. The total population in the system has stayed within a band of 58K and 66K.

NOTE: these are friends on the street who are in the system. I find the various attempts to provide a census of the number of homeless NOT in the shelters to be wildly inaccurate. I’ve participated in many of this initiatives. I used to sleep on subway trains and in all night cafes, I’ve been out at all hours of the night in various parts of the 5 boroughs. Before they criminalized sleeping on trains, I used to count how many men (95-99% of the cohort) came off trains. The city data says 4K a night are on the streets, not in shelters. For awhile I put together a model with one of my volunteer friends, an MIT grad who used to go on street teams (he runs an EU focused consulting firm.) Based on my observations, the data we pull in every week from Street Teams, and the annual Don’t Walk By census, we feel confident it is north of 18K.

I digress.

More money, on and of itself, accomplishes little. Probably because it is so uncoordinated. It’s a patchwork quilt of various perspectives, duplication of effort, every org looks for the betterment of one aspect while ignoring other critical factors. It is an exercise in futility.

My personal experience provides a heavy bias, but I believe the best program is rapid rehousing. In my case, that wonderful euphemism was 16 months. During that time I spent 12 months in temporary veteran housing - sharing a 2 bedroom with 4 other Vets.

Rapid rehousing means stability. With stability, with the proper rest, you’re able to function as a normal human being. When you are on the street you are exhausted all the time. Imagine what the quality of your life should be if you were constantly exhausted. Then add to that mix the fact that you might be an alcoholic or drug addict or mentally ill. Nothing ever gets better because you simply don’t have the energy to address it. 

I do not have and have never had any issues with alcohol and substance abuse. What I have been going through life with for 36 years  most of it untreated - is PTSD. I was in combat in 1986 and again in 1988. 

i’m treated mental illness made my life unnecessarily difficult. The PTSD caused s myriad of other issues. Anxiety, difficulty socializing with others, rage issues, major depression. 

It wasn’t as if one day I woke up and I was so long to be able to function. Some of the impact was immediate and is permanent. Most of the erosion of my life skills took much longer. I knew that I had changed, my family knew that I had changed, all of my friends saw that I was different, I wasn’t the same person. But none of us were  equipped with how to effectively deal with that. 

Now I’m happy to answer any questions anyone might have. However, I don’t want to go too far down this rabbit trail. I will just re-state that rapid rehousing allowed me to address the issues which directly contributed to my becoming homeless. The same is true for all of the veterans who are/were in that program. Most of them were dealing with either alcoholism or drug addiction or both.

Getting the proper mental health treatment at the VA was critical to my road to recovery. They literally saved my life. It is highly doubtful that any civilian mental health program would have had the same effect. I spent two full years in a 30 hour a week program learning how to effectively manage my mental illness.

Now I understand I have never shied away from seeking mental health treatment. I have at various time been in therapy. After my divorce, after s subsequent difficult breakup left me heartbroken, after the death of my mother when I wanted to learn how to grieve, and again in the mid 2010s when a toxic relationship brought my rage to the forefront. I supressed my anger and rage for 30+ years.

For most of the 33 years between combat and proper treatment, I slapped on band aids. They usually worked for a while. I went through self health programs. I read books. I went to seminars. I set goals and reached them. I buried myself in my work.

I’m a high functioning individual. I know that sounds toolish but at my age IDC. I’m in the 99 percentile by any standard measurement. So, for awhile, I could make things work. Now just imagine someone who has an IQ of say 100 or less. Imagine how difficult it would be for them to navigate the same set of circumstances. Without the ability to teach themselves. Without the ability to analyze what may or may not be wrong with themselves. I think it would be almost impossible.  

Anyways, I guess my anecdotes don’t really get us any further along and trying to figure out how to sell Patrona Thomases. But I can tell you that we happen to be housing Works. I can tell you that proper treatment is critical. Whether that’s mental health or substance-abuse or alcohol abuse. There are other factors that contribute to homelessness but I truly believe that mental illness alcohol and drugs and a major causes.

if we were serious about solving homelessness then we would be serious about making rapid rehousing widespread. It’s been shown over and over it works.

If we were serious about resolving homelessness we would expand mental health treatment and make it readily available.

If we were serious about resolving homelessness then there would be no stigma attached to alcohol and drug treatment recovery programs.

We do not want to actually solve the problem. It is a multi billion dollar industry. Tens of thousands of livelihoods depend on it continuing to be an unsolvable issue.

At least where I live in the room I am to Bashan don’t want to in college. It continues to be a problem and we continue to be ineffective in dealing with it because we simply don’t really want it to change it.

Where I’ve landed on this whole issue is I need to do all that I can to invest in individuals and change lives one at a time. That’s within my sphere of influence. I have control of that.

I can invest in people one at a time and I can help them change their trajectory of their life. I have had many satisfying experiences doing that.

I can’t solve the overall problem - it’s too big. But I can be faithful with what is in front of me and with what’s in my hand.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Your starting assumption is that all homeless actually have a strong desire to work, but for some reason beyond their control they end up jobless.

Anyone who has poured time and energy attempting to help someone improve themselves, who then refuses that help and/or does not put in the required effort on their own, knows that that assumption is fundamentally flawed.

That's not my assumption at all.

 

[BobbyLayne]

No disrespect toward anyone but it’s not a jobs issue. I get it, everyone things that’s the issue and therefore the solution seems pretty straightforward.

Way off. Like, you’re not within five zip codes.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I don't feel qualified to answer this question because its a really hard question and I haven't studied it close enough to know what works and what doesn't. 

But, of course, that won't stop me from responding. I will say that there has been this nationwide push to legalize camping on public grounds. I reckon that is a deliberate strategy by the homeless advocates to make cities deal with the homeless population. But whatever the right answer is - allowing camping in public is not it. No city can just have homeless camps all over the place. 

But, of course, if you are going to clear out the campsites, you have to have some place for the people to go. It seems to me there are two separate issues:

1) How to get people off the street as soon as possible; 

2) How to get people back on their feet and self-supporting as soon as possible.

One of the reasons that these questions are so hard to answer is because homeless folks aren't a homogenous group. Some are folks who are down on their luck, have lost their job and hopefully temporarily homeless. Some are mentally ill. Some are addicts. So a one size fits all solution probably doesn't work for everyone.

I don't know how you fix those things. Maybe someone else is more informed than me on this topic.

This is a really thoughtful response. Thank you, friend.

I don’t really have much to say about the whole camping thing. I just wanted to share that recently while I was out looking for friends on the street, I came across the community of people living in campers in an industrial section of Brooklyn. Fifth wheels, pop-ups, motorhomes, whatever those things are there are like straight trucks - the camper comes over the top of the cab?

In one block of an industrial area of warehouses & chain link fence lots, I counted 18 units. Some we’re families, some were couples, some were individuals. All were 420 friendly. Fun fact: It’s not illegal to park a camper or an RV on the streets of NYC, as long as the parking regulations for that block are being following.

The average rent in midtown for a 1 bedroom is $4K, meaning you need a salary of $160K (40x rent) to qualify. One of the camper stoners said he’s saved $100K the last year living on the street in a camper versus paying tent. His son is going to Syracuse in the fall.

 

[FairWarning]

Right. Exactly. 
But what happens when there is talk of more housing here? I already told you: recall efforts. 

 How does the water crisis restrict growth?

 

[BobbyLayne]

Like whoknew, I'm not well versed in this topic and haven't spent a lot of time on it but here's some off the cuff thoughts/comments:

• My first reaction to any issue is to understand why it is happening and getting as much data as possible.  In this case, I think it would be helpful to understand why we have the number of homeless we do.  My assumption is we could categorize most of the folks that are homeless - somebody down on their luck and looking for some help, somebody who is mentally ill and needs help in that area, drug users, people that have just kind of given up on life and then probably some that are just lazy
  
• I think there's potentially different solutions that can be implemented based on those categories but 1. it wouldn't be easy to categorize and 2. it doesn't really directly solve anything.  But, for example, if somebody is homeless and just down on their luck then it seems like an easier solve than somebody who is mentally ill or a drug addict
  
• Government should partner with groups as much as possible to help solve the problem.  Like with most things, I don't really trust the government to solve the issue.  I think charities, churches and other groups are better positioned to help.  I think governments role should be around public safety and collecting taxes to help with the issue.
  
• Possibly provide additional tax breaks or tie tax breaks to organizations helping solve the issue. 
  
• Since you will never fully "solve" homelessness we need to come up with some level of success criteria.  Always hard to hit a moving target.
  
• I've always thought homelessness is just another problem that a BIG would help alleviate to a degree.  Even if a BIG just gets these folks off the street some of the time it seems to be an improvement.
  

Yep, I’m gonna Hipple this thread until it’s time to go home.

Another really great post. 

BIG would solve a lot of issues for the 5% or less who are too lazy. It folks who are down on their luck, whatever that means.

But it doesn’t cover MOST of the homeless population.

homeless who are alcoholics - 38% per the National coalition for homelessness

homeless who are chronic affects  - 36% per HUD

homeless who are mentally ill - 65% have a mental illness which requires treatment, 17% have a major disorder (HUD)

Friends on the street who have 2 or more of those factors - errrrybody. I kid. It’s a lot - saw it in a seminar, want to say it’s over 50% but could not find it by Google.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

That's not my assumption at all.

To expand on this a bit, I don't think all homeless people are similar. There's a whole range of circumstances they can occupy.

As fatguy pointed out, some people have homes but are at risk of losing them. Their rent just went up and they can't find any affordable place to move to, or they had to take some time off from work, or they had some medical expenses, and now they're scrambling to avoid being evicted. A lot of the housing policies relevant to homeless people are relevant to them as well.

Then you have people who've just recently been evicted or foreclosed on and now they're couch surfing or living out of their car, still employed, hoping to find a new place soon.

Then there are people who've overstayed their welcome on their friends' couches and find themselves exploring shelters and soup kitchens, still hoping to get back on their feet, but now it's a lot more difficult.

Then there are people going between shelters and tents. They've got the hang of finding food. They'd been looking for work, but now that they've adjusted to their new way of living, they realize that they really like not having a boss. They're still open to any opportunities that present themselves, but they're also becoming okay with the status quo.

And, of course, there are people with drug dependencies or mental illnesses. They're sleeping on the sidewalk. They have no hope of holding down a job unless they make radical changes to other aspects of their lives, and those prospects don't seem good. Their physical health is also declining and their life expectancy is poor.

A policy that helps only a subset of that range, not everybody, may still be worthwhile.

 

[Rockchild]

To me, the most significant issue is mental health. I say this because, in doing what I do where I've probably represented a few hundred homeless defendants, while some got to the position because of drugs or choice (which are probably scenarios we can never prevent), the vast majority of them have some pretty significant mental health issues. As such, understandably, just giving somebody with significant mental health issues the practical means to secure a place is not going to work because they lack rationality and impulse control. 

Now, I don't have a magical solution to the mental health issue as it's a constitutional hurdle to probably provide medical treatment to an individual without their consent unless the person is an imminent danger to self or others, but to me it starts and stops with mental health treatment. 

I agree that the mental health aspect of this is the major issue. It goes back to the deinstitutionalization in the 1960's. There is no easy simple answer to homelessness but I would think having better mental health support is part of it. My wife's son has been in and out of mental health hospitals for years (schizophrenia). He's doing well now but it took a near tragedy to get him the help he needed. I wouldn't wish a mental hospital stay on anyone. They are not fun. They are sad, tragic places but necessary to help people who can't , for the most part, help themselves.

https://www.salon.com/2013/09/29/ronald_reagans_shameful_legacy_violence_the_homeless_mental_illness/

https://www.kqed.org/news/11209729/did-the-emptying-of-mental-hospitals-contribute-to-homelessness-here

 

[Joe Bryant]

Just raw numbers but I’m not sure it’s significantly worse (assuming we trust the numbers).  I think like with most things nowadays we are saturated with the information or details.

I think certain cities are worse, some are better and like immigration it’s somewhat used as a wedge issue but I do agree it seems folks on both sides have a decent amount of empathy for the homeless.

I'd be interested to see data on it. It certainly "feels" like it's become worse. But that's just anecdotal on my part.

 

[Joe Bryant]

because its directly affecting them Joe

Yes. That's what I'm seeing. I see more people it seems now talking about it as it's affecting them. And you're right, that is human nature. 

 

[BobbyLayne]

I would say the first thing is get them off the streets and get a roof over their head.

loved this part of your answer

for those mentally ill and/or saddled with drug problems it is a different story because there may not be an endgame where they are "normal"...for that group we may have to go back to having institutions where they are separated from society while they work on their issues and hopefully get to a point where they can take care of themselves or at least have some type of quality of life

Im gonna try not to take this personally (I’m mentally ill) or lash out at you in a personal way (you had very good intentions)

***********

While I quoted Boston, this is not directed towards him. This is for the six or 10 or 15 people in here who have made offensive posts which are very insensitive towards people who suffer from mental illness.

We are better at this stuff than our parents, right? Like previously in society, it was very common for a stigma to be attached to anyone who was having mental health issues, or suffered from mental illness, or sought mental health treatment. Each year, nationally we have a mental health awareness month. At your workplace or your school or your church, you probably have a mental health awareness month/week/day. You are probably told in many different situations it is OK to not be OK. So all of those things are a measure of progress. 

From the perspective of someone who is in that cohort - and I’m not alone, there are a lot of people reading this who are in therapy or who have mental illness, I’m not alone - there have been dozens of posts in here which make me just want to….be unkind.

Remember the human. If you need an expanded explanation I will be happy to provide it after I get done counting to 1000.
 

 

[BobbyLayne]

Just to expand on this post

I was able to transition from homelessness to temporary housing to an apartment because of s program started during the Obama administration called HUF-VASH (Housing Urban Development Veteran Administration Supportive Housing.) This has had a dramatic impact on homelessness amongst veterans. I don’t know the national numbers. I know that in New York the number of homeless veterans has dropped from 8000 to less than 200.

That’s a focused resolution at a specific demographic with particular issues. I know it doesn’t help the overall discussion but that to me is the type of programs we need in order to resolve homelessness, or at least make it much less of a problem than it is right now. Specificity. The details are everything in problem solving.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I'd love to see my Christian tribe make this their new mission but they won't. 

I volunteer primarily with faith based organizations, as well mental health programs at the VA.

With respect to the former, it is difficult to understand, but it is what it is. I do not think Matthew 25 is at all ambiguous. Yet for a very large segment of protestants in America, the so-called “social gospel” is a pejorative.

It is baffling to me but they’re not going to stand before me.  I have to be faithful with what is in my hand. I have an obligation to be a force for good in the sphere around me that is within my control. I can’t worry about stuff that I cannot change.

 

[AAABatteries]

I'd be interested to see data on it. It certainly "feels" like it's become worse. But that's just anecdotal on my part.

I took the lazy route and did a Google search and just ended up on the Wiki entry for homelessness.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States
 

 

[Gatorman]

Interesting topic and rapid rehousing seems to be the big fix, but the problem is that 1) It ain't that easy to build/find that and 2) some cities (I live in Miami) are simply too darn expensive to live in. add to that the NIMBY equation of a lot of this and it is a recipe for a continued problem.

I truly wonder if we took a look at our incarceration and policing budget and funneled a decent percentage of that into simple housing and mental health how much better this issue would seem. Again, unlike many of you in this thread I am not "active" in this community so my frame of reference is as a total outsider, but surface glance (and what I have read/learned) tells me that having a place to sleep at night is the first step to solving a lot of this.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Most homeless shelters in Denver are never full. Biggest reasons?

Many homeless people insist on having their pets, partners and possessions wherever they go. It's also true that most shelters don't allow drugs.

And so faced with these potential "hardships," many will choose to keep their "freedoms" and "rights," and instead seek out public land upon which to squat. 

The homeless that behave this way are not dumb. They know that this then places the burden on already overly stretched public safety budgets to elevate it to a priority before addressing it.

So it then becomes a type of power struggle. They know that they can't be "forced" to go to a shelter. But if no crimes are being committed, and encampments don't get so big or squalid that the public officially complains, then usually the best a public safety officer can do is just keep them on the move.

The bigger challenge is not dealing with the people who genuinely want to be helped, it's dealing with those that don't.

This post seems to resonate with quite a few posters or I should say aligns with what what people are expressing. For many this  attitude prevails: Yeah we should help those who want to be helped. It seems common among many posters we should not do anything for “the lazy” or “people who are gaming the system.”

I also I think at this point I should acknowledge how much different it is where you live. What most of you see in other cities, with a huge encampments, we don’t have that in New York City. Sounds like there are also encampments outside of the cities? Those are experiences I can’t speak to. I only know about homelessness in New York City. 

Most folks who are on the street in New York City spend their entire day been ignored by everyone in society. Literally tens of thousands of people walk by them every day without seeing them. Rarely does anyone engage them in any conversation. Now I know it’s New York,  but I mean they are shunned in a very specific way. People are scared of them, people don’t like them in their own neighborhoods, people don’t like to acknowledge that they are right outside their place of business. They don’t like being on the same trains, they put on thousand yard stare when panhandlers ask them for anything.

For me helping friends who are on the street is a lifestyle. It is not something that I do once a month or once a week. It is something that I do every day. It has become like breathing. What I most often do is introduce myself. I give them the option of whether they want to introduce themselves to me. I talk to them. I talk to them the way you would talk to a friend. I asked him how things are going. I listen four or five times more than I speak. In doing so I give them something that is more valuable than any money for gifts that I could confer upon them. I give them their dignity. 

When I do that I lift peoples spirits. It absolutely freaking makes their day that someone has acknowledged that they exist, that they matter, that their story deserves to be heard. When I do that consistently it is an investment in their lives.

Over time, I develop relationships. When I have shown someone that I really do care about them as a human being, then they will start talking to me in a very real way. And only then, when I have earned their trust, do I ask if there is anything I can do to help them. They won’t hear me unless I first demonstrate to them that I actually care.

That is what I mean when I say I can only be faithful to what’s in my hand, I only have influence within my sphere. I don’t know how to make that scale.

I do know that myself - and many other ordinary people like me - change lives because we give something of ourselves. In doing so we are able to have a meaningful impact the lives of others. 

Let’s see, what’s the snarky response when  people talk like that….Virtue signaling? Yes that’s how we put down people who are trying to do good in the world. IDC. I’m just sharing that this is what has worked for me when it comes to helping the homeless.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I wonder if there could be a trial run.(Maybe this has been done).  Give some sort of affordable / subsidized housing to a group of homeless--monitor it for 6 months or so and see where it ends up.

--How many homeless offered this actually are still using it 6 months later?

--What are the conditions of this project?  Crime?  Living conditions etc?

--Any success stories from it?

I mean, cities have tried housing projects and they have almost universally failed.   Drugs, mental illness, crime...have killed this everytime

Of course if this thing did turn out to be successful, there are a mountain of logistical issues regarding where to put them, how to pay for them, etc etc etc...

You are describing existing programs all over the country.

Housing first, aimed at displaced families, disaffected youth and chronically homeless,

and

Rapid Rehousing - folks on the margins, who are one missed paycheck or a serious illness away from being catapulted into homelessness.

It’s the best solution to keeping homelessness from spreading. We need to keep people housed.

Maybe it’s different in California or Florida. The winter I spent on the street of NYC, we had 11 consecutive nights of 15 degrees or below. Nobody chooses to live without a roof over their head.

Trust me, I have friends on the street who have been on these streets for 30 years. There is that subset who will tell you they chose this life. It’s when you dig deeper that you realize how often )seemingly 100% IME) there was a traumatic event that altered the trajectory of their life.

After awhile, the downward spiral takes on a force, a momentum, of its own…and the individual is powerless to stop it. Later they justify their current existence and tell you they’d rather be on the street than getting robbed or beaten up in a shelter. You want to chose to believe they’re there because they want to be, go ahead, I cannot stop you.

I do not believe any fully functioning adult chooses to be homeless. I may be wrong, I’m just sharing what has been my life experience. We all have blind spots, maybe this is mine.

 

[supermike80]

You are describing existing programs all over the country.

Housing first, aimed at displaced families, disaffected youth and chronically homeless,

and

Rapid Rehousing - folks on the margins, who are one missed paycheck or a serious illness away from being catapulted into homelessness.

It’s the best solution to keeping homelessness from spreading. We need to keep people housed.

Maybe it’s different in California or Florida. The winter I spent on the street of NYC, we had 11 consecutive nights of 15 degrees or below. Nobody chooses to live without a roof over their head.

Trust me, I have friends on the street who have been on these streets for 30 years. There is that subset who will tell you they chose this life. It’s when you dig deeper that you realize how often )seemingly 100% IME) there was a traumatic event that altered the trajectory of their life.

After awhile, the downward spiral takes on a force, a momentum, of its own…and the individual is powerless to stop it. Later they justify their current existence and tell you they’d rather be on the street than getting robbed or beaten up in a shelter. You want to chose to believe they’re there because they want to be, go ahead, I cannot stop you.

I do not believe any fully functioning adult chooses to be homeless. I may be wrong, I’m just sharing what has been my life experience. We all have blind spots, maybe this is mine.

Yeah youre wrong in this case.  My older brother is homeless.  Nothing tragic in his life.  Myself and my brother have offered him to live with us, and he's refused.  He chooses this life 

 

[BobbyLayne]

. . . The second question is even more problematic: where? I’ll be honest, I don’t want commercial office buildings housed with homeless people anywhere near the retail properties I manage. Bad for business. And I don’t want them near my home. I would feel less safe. I’m not alone. So where? 

Do you believe that giving someone a clean residence, clean clothes and access to affordable services (mental health, medical, barber/beautician) would change the way they felt about themselves and the way the act/treat others?  

Seems like a pretty important aspect to discuss.

I know here in the city - in small scale programs - one necessary step is to teach people basic life skills. Many of the men and women that we encounter on the streets could not hold down a job. They don’t have the social skills to work together on a team in a work environment. They’ve never had routine and stability in their lives where they get up every day and go to a job. They don’t know how to interact with people in a civil manner because they came from homes/environments where they were beaten, abused,  told they had no value.

For others they literally can not live in their own apartment until we teach them things like budgeting, cooking/eating healthy, how to grocery shop, being kind to others.

We have a lot of people on the street to have only been treated horribly and have never known a caring environment, had no positive role models in their lives, never lived in families which taight them how to have relationships with other people, how to care for one another, how to care for themselves . It is astonishing. It is a world that is foreign to everyone who is reading this.

Thankfully this is only a subset. I would say at least 70% of the time that I set out to be a blessing to someone who lives on the street the exact opposite happens. I am absolutely amazed at how positive people remain despite the circumstances. I cannot believe how many people I talk to who live on the street, who have nothing to their name, who live in unsatisfactory conditions, who do not eat regular meals, do not get proper rest, do not have access to health, will themselves to look on the bright side of things.

Our friends on the street shield from us how bad it really is. They don’t always tell us the #### that happens to them. They don’t tell us about getting robbed or beaten up. They don’t tell us about being assaulted. Because, incredibly enough, they are just like you and I. They don’t want to bring us down. They want to be an inspiration to us. Because they are human.

I don’t get it, I don’t know how they do it. I lived on the street and I couldn’t be that person. I was miserable.

I cannot tell you how many times I’ve interacted with someone on the street and come away feeling incredibly blessed. I’m embarrassed that I thought I was going to be the one who bless them. It happens over and over and over again.

***************

OK sorry, I’m not very good at being succinct. This is something that I feel very passionate about. I get carried away.

I’m going to take a break for a few hours. I am happy to answer any questions later.

I was (mostly) joking when I was chastising people for saying things that are hurtful toward the mentally ill. I have learned to let it slide off my back, however…it is challenging for people with mental illness to know how to discuss it with others. I do think that while having discussions, we do not want to be the one to discourages other people about being open about their challenges.

I don’t share these things to draw attention to myself (I don’t like the spotlight on me.) I don’t share these things to make people think that I am amazing - I am not, I am very ordinary. I share these things because there is a universality to having empathy for people who are less fortunate than us.

We are blessed so that we can then turn around and be a blessing to others. When we are strong, we should look to help people who are weaker.

Many of you have or will will you will reach a point in your career will you will have climbed the mountain top, and will realize that it is not enough. In that moment you will look around and try to figure out “what can I do to change the world around me?” Very common experience. That’s why I share, because I know that I am not alone in wanting to help other people. 

 

[BobbyLayne]

Yeah youre wrong in this case.  My older brother is homeless.  Nothing tragic in his life.  Myself and my brother have offered him to live with us, and he's refused.  He chooses this life 

Gotcha. Thanks for sharing, Mike. 

I think we all view things through the prism of our own life experience. I appreciate you sharing about your brother because it helps me understand why you feel the way you do.

As an aside, it is really refreshing to see this discussion has been largely devoid of left/right or liberal/conservative. It’s kind of rare for the PSF, and it’s kind of awesome.

 

[Stoneworker]

This post seems to resonate with quite a few posters or I should say aligns with what what people are expressing. For many this  attitude prevails: Yeah we should help those who want to be helped. It seems common among many posters we should not do anything for “the lazy” or “people who are gaming the system.”

I also I think at this point I should acknowledge how much different it is where you live. What most of you see in other cities, with a huge encampments, we don’t have that in New York City. Sounds like there are also encampments outside of the cities? Those are experiences I can’t speak to. I only know about homelessness in New York City. 

Most folks who are on the street in New York City spend their entire day been ignored by everyone in society. Literally tens of thousands of people walk by them every day without seeing them. Rarely does anyone engage them in any conversation. Now I know it’s New York,  but I mean they are shunned in a very specific way. People are scared of them, people don’t like them in their own neighborhoods, people don’t like to acknowledge that they are right outside their place of business. They don’t like being on the same trains, they put on thousand yard stare when panhandlers ask them for anything.

For me helping friends who are on the street is a lifestyle. It is not something that I do once a month or once a week. It is something that I do every day. It has become like breathing. What I most often do is introduce myself. I give them the option of whether they want to introduce themselves to me. I talk to them. I talk to them the way you would talk to a friend. I asked him how things are going. I listen four or five times more than I speak. In doing so I give them something that is more valuable than any money for gifts that I could confer upon them. I give them their dignity. 

When I do that I lift peoples spirits. It absolutely freaking makes their day that someone has acknowledged that they exist, that they matter, that their story deserves to be heard. When I do that consistently it is an investment in their lives.

Over time, I develop relationships. When I have shown someone that I really do care about them as a human being, then they will start talking to me in a very real way. And only then, when I have earned their trust, do I ask if there is anything I can do to help them. They won’t hear me unless I first demonstrate to them that I actually care.

That is what I mean when I say I can only be faithful to what’s in my hand, I only have influence within my sphere. I don’t know how to make that scale.

I do know that myself - and many other ordinary people like me - change lives because we give something of ourselves. In doing so we are able to have a meaningful impact the lives of others. 

Let’s see, what’s the snarky response when  people talk like that….Virtue signaling? Yes that’s how we put down people who are trying to do good in the world. IDC. I’m just sharing that this is what has worked for me when it comes to helping the homeless.

I'm glad you've found a charitable purpose that works for you.

As for homeless in NYC, I lived there for three years. Brooklyn to be specific. Had many first-hand experiences with homeless.

One night on my way home from work I was accosted (yes, accosted) by a homeless dude for money. I had Chinese takeout with me and so invited him into my home. We shared a dignified meal. He told me his story. He said he was actively seeking work and in fact had an interview the following Tuesday. He said the only thing holding him back was he didn't have a suit.

I knew it was BS. But I gave him my business card anyway. Told him to call me and if the interview checked out I would buy him a tailored suit on the spot and let him use my apartment to clean up beforehand.

Of course I never heard from him again.

So not everyone " walks by them every day without seeing them" or "rarely engage them in any conversation" or "are scared of them" or "put on thousand yard stare when panhandlers ask them for anything."

 

[parasaurolophus]

Just to add a few more - stop requiring minimum lot sizes, stop requiring minimum parking requirements, stop taking forever (in some cities) to get through permitting, stop requiring compatibility setbacks. Just to name a few.

Density is the key.

Colorado is building jam packed housing developments everywhere you look. Price keeps skyrocketing.

You can't build your way out of this stuff. 

 

[timschochet]

Yep, I’m gonna Hipple this thread until it’s time to go home.

Another really great post. 

BIG would solve a lot of issues for the 5% or less who are too lazy. It folks who are down on their luck, whatever that means.

But it doesn’t cover MOST of the homeless population.

homeless who are alcoholics - 38% per the National coalition for homelessness

homeless who are chronic affects  - 36% per HUD

homeless who are mentally ill - 65% have a mental illness which requires treatment, 17% have a major disorder (HUD)

Friends on the street who have 2 or more of those factors - errrrybody. I kid. It’s a lot - saw it in a seminar, want to say it’s over 50% but could not find it by Google.

Quick question on these numbers: I’m assuming many of the alcoholics and addicts are the same people? Or should we add them together, which would make 74% of homeless suffering from some sort of substance abuse? 

 

[supermike80]

Gotcha. Thanks for sharing, Mike. 

I think we all view things through the prism of our own life experience. I appreciate you sharing about your brother because it helps me understand why you feel the way you do.

As an aside, it is really refreshing to see this discussion has been largely devoid of left/right or liberal/conservative. It’s kind of rare for the PSF, and it’s kind of awesome.

Agreed 100%

 

[BladeRunner]

Pretty sure we had this problem solved 49 years ago.

 

[Gopher State]

26 percent of the homeless are veterans.  A very disappointing number.  We need to do more for them.

 

[supermike80]

26 percent of the homeless are veterans.  A very disappointing number.  We need to do more for them.

Could not agree more.  Thats disgusting 

 

[Stoneworker]

No disrespect toward anyone but it’s not a jobs issue. I get it, everyone things that’s the issue and therefore the solution seems pretty straightforward.

Way off. Like, you’re not within five zip codes.

How many zip codes off is the U.S. Interagency Council on Homelessness?

Several studies have identified unemployment as one of the factors that greatly contribute to the problem. Vets often have a problem finding a job due to a combination of factors that may or may not include mental or physical problems and substance abuse. Statistics show that unemployment is the primary reason for vet poverty and homelessness in the US.

Source: United States Interagency Council on Homelessness

Homeless Veterans Statistics - 2022

 

[Stoneworker]

26 percent of the homeless are veterans.  A very disappointing number.  We need to do more for them.

I share the empathy toward vets. What is your data source?

Veterans account for 11% of homeless adults in the US.

Homeless Veterans Stats - 2022

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Build more single-room occupancy units.

https://www.governing.com/community/sro-housing-nearly-zoned-out-of-existence-could-re-emerge

 

[AAABatteries]

Let me ask potentially a very horrible question.  Should we even bother?  I'll go ahead and say the answer I would give is absolutely we should bother and do something about it but looking again at the numbers and hearing what people are saying their experience is - I truly wonder how many homeless we have that aren't: 1. choosing it.  2. can't help it (mental or drug issues).

How many folks that truly are wanting or able to accept help aren't getting it?

I realize this is a controversial post and I'm just trying to drive discussion, not crap on the homeless.  Considering the numbers I'm seeing are staying rather flat the last 20 years maybe we just have a certain small % of people that we just can't help??  Again, my vote is of course we need to help but I think it's at least a valid question as I find it similar to a question I ask at work frequently.  Is spending a lot of time and money on X worth it?  In this case we are talking about lives so of course it is but if we determine that no matter what we do (spend 100 billion a year) we will still have about the same amount of homeless folks then what do we do then?

 

[parasaurolophus]

Let me ask potentially a very horrible question.  Should we even bother?  I'll go ahead and say the answer I would give is absolutely we should bother and do something about it but looking again at the numbers and hearing what people are saying their experience is - I truly wonder how many homeless we have that aren't: 1. choosing it.  2. can't help it (mental or drug issues).

How many folks that truly are wanting or able to accept help aren't getting it?

I realize this is a controversial post and I'm just trying to drive discussion, not crap on the homeless.  Considering the numbers I'm seeing are staying rather flat the last 20 years maybe we just have a certain small % of people that we just can't help??  Again, my vote is of course we need to help but I think it's at least a valid question as I find it similar to a question I ask at work frequently.  Is spending a lot of time and money on X worth it?  In this case we are talking about lives so of course it is but if we determine that no matter what we do (spend 100 billion a year) we will still have about the same amount of homeless folks then what do we do then?

The vast majority that I see on a daily basis have serious problems. I have zero doubts these people prefer to be on the streets because any other situation would require rules they will not follow.

But the ones that are often referenced as just one bad break probably just aren't really seen. They arent pooping on your sidewalk and stealing your bike. They are getting help or even at work.

Its interesting to me how it is like two different worlds. I always hear advocates describe the people they help in such different terms then what I see on a daily basis. 

But i guess thats the difference between working with the homeless in a shelter or at a church vs me seeing them out in "the wild."

 

[BobbyLayne]

Quick question on these numbers: I’m assuming many of the alcoholics and addicts are the same people? Or should we add them together, which would make 74% of homeless suffering from some sort of substance abuse? 

Over 50% present more than one of the major factors (drinking, dragging, metal illness.) I know it has come up several times in different seminars / training sessions I’ve attended but unfortunately I don’t have a study or haven’t statistic.

I’ve also seen studies of different contributing factors. Not sure it points to causation but folks who become homeless have much higher incidence of being sexually abused, oglhysucskiy abused, having grown up in single I aren’t household, having experienced childhood trauma….I’m forgetting some of the things they listed but you get the idea. 

Unfortunately, many problems that begin to occur during adulthood – like depression, anxiety, cardiovascular disease and obesity – are often the direct result of childhood trauma that has gone untreated. None of those are direct causes of homelessness but there dues seem to be evidence of cumulative effect, e.g., the more of these risk factors that are present, the higher incidence rate of homelessness.

Cimplex issue, hard to pain with broad brush strokes.

 

[BobbyLayne]

The impact of HUD-VASH on Veteran Homelessness

American Journal of Public Health study on the impact of HUD-VASH. The program was initiated under Clinton and greatly expanded in Obama’s first year.

2009 was the first year of HUD-VASH vouchers. Between 2010 and 2017, veteran homelessness fell by 46%. HUD-VASH accounted for 60% of that decrease.

Here in NYC, where affordable housing is especially scarce, HUD-VASH has dramatically reduced [Veteran] homelessness.

I had a LOT of support systems. My parents are both deceased and my three siblings are in Michigan, so I don’t really have family to fall back on. Prior to the calamity in my life -

ASIDE: long story, but a big contributor was spending $44K in legal fees 2016-18 on a child custody case; this wiped out my six months of living expenses savings

- I was the best earner and most successful member of my family. Anyway, I had tons of emotional and financial support through my church, friends, other PTSD veterans, health and mental health care through the VA, Easter Seals, my SSVF (private org that supported me by filing in the gaps where all these programs did not cover necessary expenses.) Literally hundreds of people assisted in getting my life back on track. 

I would say they were interdependent. The housing voucher was a critical component. But each element played a critical role. The voucher alone…would not have been enough to get me off the street. It is very likely I would have experienced chronic homelessness. I feel like it was a near thing, I was a knife edge away from falling between the cracks. I may have never gotten off the streets.

My personal experience is why I find it laughably simple minded that people think it’s an employment issue. Landing a job, receiving a steady paycheck, would have not gotten me any closer to resolving the plethora of issues in my life.

It probably sounds nuts, but in an odd way it all worked together for good. If I hadn’t gone through all the horrible experiences I had the winter of 2018-19, I would not have sought help, and 4-5 (6?) referrals later, I might not have ended up at the VA. Without proper mental health treatment to learn how to manage my PTSD and associated mental illnesses, I may have never overcome my circumstances.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Its interesting to me how it is like two different worlds. I always hear advocates describe the people they help in such different terms then what I see on a daily basis. 

But i guess thats the difference between working with the homeless in a shelter or at a church vs me seeing them out in "the wild."

It is interesting how people look at the same thing but from different perspectives.

This may not help you or resonate with you in any way. I’m not trying to be self-righteous. Just trying to share my perspective, and maybe help others view things in a different light.

Every friend on the street I encounter has intrinsic value. Each one of us is made in the image of God. In both Judaism & Christianity, it’s called the imago Dei. 

We each have the capacity for emotions, feelings, creativity, the capacity to love, the empathy to care for others. The imago Dei does not mean God has human qualities, but the opposite - that God has bestowed on humankind qualities which are not in common with animals or other  parts of creation.

We were each made to resemble God. We have the ability to reason and choose. We were created for fellowship. Both with each other, and with our Creator God.

I don’t want to drift into prostelizatizn, this isn’t the place for that. Just giving the most basic thumbnail here.

 When I meet someone who lives on the street, that person shares something special with me. They are image bearers. They have been marked and set aside as someone God values. It does not matter what they look like, or how they are dressed, or whether they’ve bathed, or whether stink, or have bad breath, or if they are rude. They matter. That is enough for me to value them.

*************

Poop story, because everyone poops and who doesn’t love a good shart story.

One night 4-5 years ago we were out on Street Teams with 20 or 30 other believers. We usually split up in groups of 3-5. We approach prospective friends in groups of 2. We don’t engage if someone doesn’t look up or meet our gaze (the street is their home…waking up slowly, trying to make eye cobtact, waving silently…these are respectful ways to “ask permission” to enter their home.)

Toward the end of the night we met this dude who was getting his stuff organized on the steps of the subway. As we start talking to him it quickly become apparent (by the stench and observation) that he’s soiled himself. Didn’t look like he had any other clothes amongst his possessions. Two of the team members go across Union Square to pick up underwear & pants from a store. We sat down with him and listened to his story.

He was a Vietnam veteran, he had been in country. Had a lot of great stories and a lively spirit. After 20 minutes or so the other folks with me returned with the clothes. I asked if it would be OK if I swiped him into the subway so he could use the bathroom in the station to cleanup and get changed.

He could not answer. But he did nod. I didn’t know it at the time, but this was the only time I would ever see him.

No real point to this, except that it’s pretty normal to have a bowel movement. Imagine having to go and (NYC is notorious for not having enough public bathrooms), holy crap, you can’t find anywhere to go. Would anyone not be devastatingly embarrassed if, though little fault of their own, they had an accident in public? 

Listening to him for 20 minutes, giving him a few clothes and a package of baby wipes - is that something special? Of course not. Goodness, it’s the simplest, most basic need one could meet for another human. It meant so much to this guy. Someone saw him. Someone heard him. Without having to be told, someone saw an obvious need.

I don’t know how to solve homelessness. I do know how little effort it takes to give people dignity. If you make yourself available you can impact lives. Even if it’s just for a day or even a few minutes - it is so worth it.

 

[timschochet]

Let me ask potentially a very horrible question.  Should we even bother?  I'll go ahead and say the answer I would give is absolutely we should bother and do something about it but looking again at the numbers and hearing what people are saying their experience is - I truly wonder how many homeless we have that aren't: 1. choosing it.  2. can't help it (mental or drug issues).

How many folks that truly are wanting or able to accept help aren't getting it?

I realize this is a controversial post and I'm just trying to drive discussion, not crap on the homeless.  Considering the numbers I'm seeing are staying rather flat the last 20 years maybe we just have a certain small % of people that we just can't help??  Again, my vote is of course we need to help but I think it's at least a valid question as I find it similar to a question I ask at work frequently.  Is spending a lot of time and money on X worth it?  In this case we are talking about lives so of course it is but if we determine that no matter what we do (spend 100 billion a year) we will still have about the same amount of homeless folks then what do we do then?

My answer is going to sound even more horrible than your question: we have to bother. We have to bother, not for them, but for the rest of us. Because they’re hurting business, hurting whole parts of cities. It can’t go on. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

My answer is going to sound even more horrible than your question: we have to bother. We have to bother, not for them, but for the rest of us. Because they’re hurting business, hurting whole parts of cities. It can’t go on. 

Nothing horrible about it Tim. I imagine being a property owner you have experienced some not great things due to this.

I had a dead prairie dog thrown at my car last week by the guy I previously thought was harmless and mildly entertaining. I had named him "headphone guy". His previous worst infraction was performing very strange dance routines in the parking lot at del taco. 

This was new. Scared the crap out of me and I could have easily got into a car accident. If he killed the prairie dog he needs to be put away. If he scooped up road kill, he needs some serious treatment. 

 

[BobbyLayne]

https://www.va.gov/HOMELESS/docs/VA-Homeless-FY19-Annual-Report-508.pdf

Each year the VA is required* to present an annual assessment of Veteran Homeless to Congress. Above is the most recent report; data is airways lagging, but I suspect the delay of a 2020 report is due to the pandemic. Anyway, it’s a snapshot of where we are currently at WRT Veteran Homelessness.

*by the expansion of HUD-VASH which took place early in the first Obama administration; as I mentioned upthread, HUD-VASH has had a tremendous impact in NYC.

The introductory paragraph prior to discussing HUD-VASH reads:

VA’s housing programs are guided by the Housing First approach that is based on the premise that when Veterans have a place to call home, they are better able to benefit from supportive services. The key principles of Housing First as they are applied under VA’s housing programs are: respect, warmth, and compassion for all Veterans; Veteran choice and self-determination; a recovery-oriented approach; and utilization of Harm Reduction strategies. Housing First features rapid, streamlined entry into a housing program with no preconditions such as sobriety or completion of alcohol or drug treatment for obtaining tenancy. As Veterans achieve their goals, establish recovery, and gain independence, the services they receive are continually adjusted to meet their needs.

My recollection of my application process for the HUD-VASH voucher is it took about 5-1/2 months to obtain the voucher, and from there it took another 10-1/2 months before my move in date. I lived in temporary veteran housing - a four floor apartment complex in Dyker Heights (Brooklyn) specifically built for the HUD-VASH program - for 12 months. They kicked out because the maximum length of stat is 365 days. Thereafter I lived in a Marriot Residence Inn in midtown for 119 days.

My SSVF (support services for veteran families) paid for my hotel stay. They did so - & extended my housing voucher - because I had found an apartment, had signed a lease, and was awaiting final inspection of the brand new, never been lived in apartment.

However, the landlord reneged on the deal. This was the middle of lockdown and the LL gave two apartments to HUD-VASH voucher holders. Later he decided he could make more money putting the apartments on the open market. The apartment I lost was the 51st apartment I had viewed.

Eventually I found another apartment. It was a 4th floor walk up rather than an elevator building. The finishes were barely adequate, but as I was often told, “it beats being in a shelter.” It was in a much less safe part of central Harlem, less gentrified, further from transportation, et al.

That experience of having the rug pulled out from underneath had a detrimental effect on my mental health. I had my a lot of progress in the previous 11 months; at that point, 7 months into my 5-days-a-week, 30 hours per week outpatient program, which is styled the Psyche-social Rehabilitation and Restoration Center or PRRC. Anyway, my rapid downward spiral took another 17 months to recover from.

In order to qualify for the HUD-VASH voucher, I needed to meet 3 of 5 conditions. 1) be formerly classified as homeless, 2) be a veteran with Combat PTSD, 3) present comorbid mental health disorders such as anxiety, depression, OCD, schizophrenic, et al, 4) be an alcoholic, or 5) be a drug addict. The first three were applicable in my case.

I was first presented to the HUD-VASH Approval Board in early November, 2019, around 3 months after the process began. I was rejected because my case was judged not severe enough. This decision did not match the mental health assessments performed at the VA for Depression & PTSD. Likely they had more cases than vouchers. Two months later, I was presented to the board again and was approved.

Oh, BTW….I am leaving the HUD-VASH voucher program in 15 days. I am getting married, and we will live in my fiancée’s apartment. It’s a bigger place, elevator building, safer neighborhood, with a wall of southern facing windows. It is near the waterfront, quite far from our church, most of our friends, and most of our social activities. Little matter; it’s a wonderful apt - just a long ways from where we do most things. I met my bride to be through mutuals about a month after I took possession of my apartment.

 

[BobbyLayne]

https://www.va.gov/HOMELESS/docs/VA-Homeless-FY19-Annual-Report-508.pdf

I really should look into attending a seminar on how to communicate efficiently and succinctly...

WRT the referenced report - more than 300 communities have been part of the HUD-VASH program since 2008. In 78 of those communities (including entire 3 states), veteran homelessness has been completely eradicated.

Rapid rehousing and case management works.

I don't know if that scales across all categories of homelessness. I only know that HUD-VASH....along with my SSVF...and the mental health treatment received at the VA through the PRRC program....along the emotional and financial support of my friends, my church, and the broader faith based community of NYC....all of those folks, literally in the hundreds, saved my life. 

 

[Rockchild]

Just to expand on this post

I was able to transition from homelessness to temporary housing to an apartment because of s program started during the Obama administration called HUF-VASH (Housing Urban Development Veteran Administration Supportive Housing.) This has had a dramatic impact on homelessness amongst veterans. I don’t know the national numbers. I know that in New York the number of homeless veterans has dropped from 8000 to less than 200.

That’s a focused resolution at a specific demographic with particular issues. I know it doesn’t help the overall discussion but that to me is the type of programs we need in order to resolve homelessness, or at least make it much less of a problem than it is right now. Specificity. The details are everything in problem solving.

Very good point. We are not going to solve homelessness all in one fell swoop. Have an overall goal but, like Bobby says, target where we can help and move outward from there.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Tales from the streets

Tik Tok

full interview - YT (10 minutes)

Nicole from Phoenix. She thinks she is 23….probably. Originally from the high desert area (Mojave) in California, she been wandering the streets as long as she can remember…since she was 18. Occasionally in touch with her brother and parents.

Broken. Dopesick - been on the blues a few years. Exhausted. Mentally ill. Traumatized.

That is life on the streets.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Relevant: the rent is too high. (John Oliver.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4qmDnYli2E

 

[Sand]

Affordable housing in LA routinely cost >$1M.  

 

[The Commish]

That's partially because it's hard to afford housing when you don't have a job. But it's also partially because it's hard to maintain a job when you are sleeping on the sidewalk. A vicious circle.

There are many who will suggest that 20-25% of the homeless population have jobs.  This is true, but incomplete.  The reality is that depending on when various studies are done, up to 60% of the homeless have a job.  Aggregate the varoius studies and I believe the range is between 35 and 65% have jobs depending on timing.  This is the primary issue I see all the time and it's common among 95% of the people I deal with on a weekly basis.  Shelter is a foundational pillar of survival.  It's not something we address after people get back on their feet.  It's a requirement for getting people back on their feet.

 

[parasaurolophus]

There are many who will suggest that 20-25% of the homeless population have jobs.  This is true, but incomplete.  The reality is that depending on when various studies are done, up to 60% of the homeless have a job.  Aggregate the varoius studies and I believe the range is between 35 and 65% have jobs depending on timing.  This is the primary issue I see all the time and it's common among 95% of the people I deal with on a weekly basis.  Shelter is a foundational pillar of survival.  It's not something we address after people get back on their feet.  It's a requirement for getting people back on their feet.

You have to drastically shift things to argue 65% of homeless people have jobs. 

I think only 40% of unsheltered show reported income with no minimum threshold the previous 12 months.  

I believe that number is 65% for sheltered. 

 

[The Commish]

You have to drastically shift things to argue 65% of homeless people have jobs. 

I think only 40% of unsheltered show reported income with no minimum threshold the previous 12 months.  

I believe that number is 65% for sheltered. 

There are tons of studies out there with varying results and that percentage is in constant flux.  Think of it as a high water mark I guess?  If I relied soley on my anecdotal experiences over the last 20+ years, I'd say the percentage is 80%+ but that's not a good way to have discussions because that doesn't play out nationally and doesn't help formulate a plan nationally.  

 

[Stoneworker]

The primary focus should be the homeless who choose not to use available shelters.

Affordable housing to get responsible individuals out of a shelter is definitely a problem. But it is completely separate from getting people off the streets, which is the biggest public health/safety threat.

The unsheltered population has surged by 30 percent [in the last five years], almost wiping out nearly a decade of previous gains.

https://endhomelessness.org/homelessness-in-america/homelessness-statistics/state-of-homelessness-2021/