What's the upside of marriage for men? (1 Viewer)

[matttyl]

I know this 50/50 stat gets thrown out about divorce all the time, but is there any updated studies of what the new ratio of divorce is these days?  It has to be higher than 50% at this point, no?

And the reality is this 50/50 stat is for the couples brave enough to actually take the divorce step.  Of those 50% married, what percentage of those just stay married but are miserable?   Being nice, let's just say half of those stay married, but wish they had an out.

So that would put it at 75% either divorced or unhappily married.  And I'd say that's being generous.

Both marriage and divorce rates have dropped recently, but the latter is still just under 50%.  In fact, 2019 was a record low for divorce rate, but also a record low for marriage rate.  
 

Fun fact - in US today, 41% of first time marriages will fail, 60% of second marriages fail, and 73% of third marriages fail.  We have the 6th highest divorce rate in world.  

 

[otb_lifer]

3. Just odd being 50 or so and saying “my girlfriend of 20 years”.

not to me, it describes my current relationship to a tee.

 

[The General]

But why the need to get legally married then?  Especially if not having kids.  Doesn't make any logical sense for a man.

In a unique situation I believe.

Been with the same woman for 25 years this year. We are not married, no kids, own a home together, finances all intermingled, both have had stable jobs for past 20 years. I refer to her as my wife out of convenience describing the situation in many cases. 

Not religious and haven't bothered to do a ceremony. Zero interest in that. 

I never really consider what it would be like to leave. Share many of the same friends but do have quite a few things we do separately. 

 

[NutterButter]

My mom is 73 and has been dating the same guy for 30 years.  I always pause when introducing him to someone b/c the term boyfriend seems strange to me when describing a 70 year old.   

 

[dgreen]

It probably comes off that way because the only logical reasons many say of why you should get married are financial actually (health benefits, tax breaks, etc). 

My point is this....If you want to be in a committed relationship than great, do that.  There is just absolutely no logical reason why one needs to sign a legal document that makes it very hard to separate without it being financially detrimental.  And usually the male takes the brunt of that financial hit.  

Just be together and committed...I'm all for it.   The concept of legal marriage is just archaic and silly.

What do you mean by "committed"?

For many, the legal marriage is a sign of the commitment. A promise to stay committed. I'm willing to voluntarily put a difficult exit process in front me as a way to force me to stay committed and to signal to my wife that I'll work through things rather than just leave. To do that, one has to believe that being committed is really important. So, I hear you say that you are all for being together and being committed, but I also get the feeling that you have no problem with someone leaving the relationship if they aren't happy. And you think it's best to not have that difficult obstacle of divorce in the way of that. In other words, you think relationships make more sense if they stay in a perpetual state of dating. Is that right? Or am I misunderstanding?

Great topic, btw.

 

[matttyl]

1. What if it’s important to the woman? Let’s say you love her and want to spend the rest of your life with her. She feels the same but getting married is important to her. Are you going to lose the love of your life simply because you didn’t want to get married (even though you do intend to spend the rest of your days with her)? Seems silly. 

2. Easier for almost all financial stuff, not just taxes. Think about retirement, estate planning, etc. 

3. Just odd being 50 or so and saying “my girlfriend of 20 years”.

4. Kids. As others said. Not my thing but marriage helps here, imo.

On 2 and 3 - often times it’s the opposite for 2.  Especially if already divorced once with kids.  Lots of my parents friends have had a prior divorce in life and don’t want to get remarried purely for financial reasons.  They are affluent and things could easily get messy, especially with kids from first marriage.  In those situations, as for your point 3, they just say “this is Tom” and don’t go into details when making intros.  Whats yours is yours; what’s mine is mine (and when eventually by my kid’s when I’m gone).  

 

[Zow]

The legal advice I often give is that marriage makes sense for couples in a committed relationship with children because of the tax implications and presumptions of equal custodial rights upon marriage. That is an actual advantage for both parties. Separately, it makes legal sense for the non-wealthy individual in a committed relationship to marry the wealthy/continuing to accrue substantial wealth significant so that by operation of law the non-wealthy spouse has an equitable interest in the wealth accrued during the marriage and isn't left with nothing if the relationship goes south. And, of course, if the non-wealthy spouse is the man, it still nonetheless makes sense.

The above are purely legal reasons why it may be advantageous for a man to be married or why there is a discernible "upside" to being married. As a married man myself,  I do see the intrinsic upside of marriage in the sense that it's a manifestation of a mutual intent to be committed. For me personally, I like the safety net of knowing there's somebody else who is loyal to me even through bad times or through times where I may not be the best partner because I'm too focused on work or sports or whatever. For my wife and I, we've gone through some #### such as failed IVF, our first foster son going back to his bio mom after two years with us only to come back to us with his sister 1.5 years later, we've both gained some weight, working 60-70 hours a week has hurt my libido, etc. I like to think that we would have stayed together through all of this even if we weren't married, but I'm not 100% certain. Instead, I don't think either of us have ever questioned it because we both took the marriage vow or whatever seriously. 

So, in short, where I can see an argument that it's philosophically arbitrary to marry just to confirm commitment, I do think in practice it makes sense and even if that line of thinking is flawed it still results in upside (assuming arguendo that a lifelong committed relationship is the goal).  

 

[dgreen]

Both marriage and divorce rates have dropped recently, but the latter is still just under 50%.  In fact, 2019 was a record low for divorce rate, but also a record low for marriage rate.  
 

Fun fact - in US today, 41% of first time marriages will fail, 60% of second marriages fail, and 73% of third marriages fail.  We have the 6th highest divorce rate in world.  

Is it still true that divorce rates are skewed towards those who marry young and are less educated? That was my understanding at one point. That if you marry older and both have college degrees, divorce rates really drop.

 

[Zow]

Both marriage and divorce rates have dropped recently, but the latter is still just under 50%.  In fact, 2019 was a record low for divorce rate, but also a record low for marriage rate.  
 

Fun fact - in US today, 41% of first time marriages will fail, 60% of second marriages fail, and 73% of third marriages fail.  We have the 6th highest divorce rate in world.  

Speaking merely anecdotally from my line of work (divorce/criminal defense attorney), unfortunately I believe this rate went back up during Covid-19. My phone was ringing off the hook and dissolution/family law filings were up in general. 

 

[rockaction]

Skynyrd got ya: 

you'll find a woman
and you'll find love
and don't forget son 
there is someone else up above

love and covenants 

 

[rockaction]

If I married you at 23 and we were still together today that means you must have been on a hell of a journey, too. Oh my. That would have been fun if you could stand it. 

(And the other women that I would have needed along the way.)

Marriage. 

Hah. Marriage. 

That's so...foreign. 

 

[offdee]

What do you mean by "committed"?

For many, the legal marriage is a sign of the commitment. A promise to stay committed. I'm willing to voluntarily put a difficult exit process in front me as a way to force me to stay committed and to signal to my wife that I'll work through things rather than just leave. To do that, one has to believe that being committed is really important. So, I hear you say that you are all for being together and being committed, but I also get the feeling that you have no problem with someone leaving the relationship if they aren't happy. And you think it's best to not have that difficult obstacle of divorce in the way of that. In other words, you think relationships make more sense if they stay in a perpetual state of dating. Is that right? Or am I misunderstanding?

Great topic, btw.

I guess what I'm saying is that Marriage doesn't really prevent anybody from leaving the relationship if one/both really want it to happen.  It just makes it a pain in the a$$ to do it. 

And I am for committed monogamous relationships if that's what makes both people happy.   

You're question to me exactly stated...you have no problem with someone leaving the relationship if they aren't happy?   I'd answer...what's the point of being in a relationship if you're not happy?    If the relationship isn't making you happy, life is too short....take a different path to happiness.  Whether that be by yourself or with someone else.

 

[dgreen]

In a unique situation I believe.

Been with the same woman for 25 years this year. We are not married, no kids, own a home together, finances all intermingled, both have had stable jobs for past 20 years. I refer to her as my wife out of convenience describing the situation in many cases. 

Not religious and haven't bothered to do a ceremony. Zero interest in that. 

I never really consider what it would be like to leave. Share many of the same friends but do have quite a few things we do separately. 

I remember once a guy telling me a story about him and his long-time girlfriend. As he was telling the story, I was not aware that they weren't married. After his story, I said something to him about his "wife" and he quickly shot back, "She's not my wife." He then explained how long they've been together and how their relationship works but made it clear that they aren't married. I didn't say this, because he seemed offended that I referred to her as his wife, but I thought, "Um, that's a wife."

 

[Jayrod]

There are some deeper and long-term reasons why marriage is a thing in our society.

• First and foremost is the religious aspect, which was a foundational part of Western society since Constantine made Christianity a thing in Rome and the missionaries spread the religion around the world and here in the US.  The Bible essentially calls any sexual activity outside of man/woman marriage a sin.  Marriage was a religious ceremony to secure the family as one and secure the family unit of the two parents with their children.  More people (as a %) believed in these things during the formation of our legal structure, but many still do.
  
• Secondly, it is a benefit to society to have people in committed relationships to cohabitate and co-parent their children.  Society is more stable and it is generally easier to be fiscally responsible when 2 people share the burden.  Granted there are cases when none of this applies, but across the broad spectrum of society, the principles are reflected in the data.  As such, the government attempted to make marriage a legally beneficial thing and got into the marriage business very early on in American society.
  

The first aspect will make no sense for a non-Christian (I'm sure other religions could jump in here as well, but this is the predominant one in the US).  If you believe in the Bible as God's word, then marriage will continue to be an important part of life. The second aspect is something we may want to change in the near future, but I'm not sure how we would even go about it.

I am a devout believer in Jesus and got married at 22 as a virgin.  I wasn't having sex until I was married and she is the only person I have ever even been naked with.  21 years later we are still married.  I think the sex is wonderful (although life gets in the way of frequency), but then again, ignorance may be bliss in that regard.  Don't care as I'm really happy on that front.  I also chose wisely and my wife is a hard worker (she makes more than me this year for the first time in our marriage) and a good mother and stays in good shape and still looks amazing at 44.  Additionally, we are polar opposites in a lot of ways and have had a great deal of benefit from learning and growing together.  She's pushed me to be a better man in many ways and I've given her self-confidence and gotten her to slow down and enjoy life more often.

I shudder to think of what I would have become had I been left to my own devices.  Maybe I would have figured it out, but there would have been a LOT more mistakes along the way.  I honestly think I may have ended up in jail or dead by now.  I'm a reckless, impulsive, short-tempered thrill seeker inside and it has taken decades of God's hand and my wife's gentle reminders to keep me from going off the rails on multiple occasions.

For me marriage has been an enormous benefit...I didn't even talk about the children aspect yet.

 

[offdee]

Both marriage and divorce rates have dropped recently, but the latter is still just under 50%.  In fact, 2019 was a record low for divorce rate, but also a record low for marriage rate.  
 

Fun fact - in US today, 41% of first time marriages will fail, 60% of second marriages fail, and 73% of third marriages fail.  We have the 6th highest divorce rate in world.  

Interesting, thanks for this.

My takeaway from these stats coincide with the genesis of this topic...more and more are starting to decide to just not bother getting married in the first place.  You can't get Divorced if you were never married.

 

[dkp993]

HOT TAKE: guys in ####ty marriage thinks it's not worth it.   Guys in great marriage thinks it is

This.   

Wife and I have been together 17yrs, while some years have been rougher then others we have a very good marriage. She’s my partner in life and I think that’s a special thing.  Add in a 7yr old daughter that’s my heart and I wouldn’t trade it for anything.   

 

[Jackstraw]

So I can leverage the finances and fighting men of House Tyrell. 

 

[The General]

I remember once a guy telling me a story about him and his long-time girlfriend. As he was telling the story, I was not aware that they weren't married. After his story, I said something to him about his "wife" and he quickly shot back, "She's not my wife." He then explained how long they've been together and how their relationship works but made it clear that they aren't married. I didn't say this, because he seemed offended that I referred to her as his wife, but I thought, "Um, that's a wife."

Yeah. I don't think anything of it just saying my girlfriend or partner sounds weird in certain situations. My go to line is to say I don't want to rush into anything. 

 

[rockaction]

There are some deeper and long-term reasons why marriage is a thing in our society.

• First and foremost is the religious aspect, which was a foundational part of Western society since Constantine made Christianity a thing in Rome and the missionaries spread the religion around the world and here in the US.  The Bible essentially calls any sexual activity outside of man/woman marriage a sin.  Marriage was a religious ceremony to secure the family as one and secure the family unit of the two parents with their children.  More people (as a %) believed in these things during the formation of our legal structure, but many still do.
  
• Secondly, it is a benefit to society to have people in committed relationships to cohabitate and co-parent their children.  Society is more stable and it is generally easier to be fiscally responsible when 2 people share the burden.  Granted their are cases when none of this applies, but across the broad spectrum of society, the principles are reflected in the data.  As such, the government attempted to make marriage a legally beneficial thing and got into the marriage business very early on in American society.
  

The first aspect will make no sense for a non-Christian (I'm sure other religions could jump in here as well, but this is the predominant one in the US).  If you believe in the Bible as God's word, then marriage will continue to be an important part of life. The second aspect is something we may want to change in the near future, but I'm not sure how we would even go about it.

I am a devout believer in Jesus and got married at 22 as a virgin.  I wasn't having sex until I was married and she is the only person I have ever even been naked with.  21 years later we are still married.  I think the sex is wonderful (although life gets in the way of frequency), but then again, ignorance may be bliss in that regard.  Don't care as I'm really happy on that front.  I also chose wisely and my wife is a hard worker (she makes more than me this year for the first time in our marriage) and a good mother and stays in good shape and still looks amazing at 44.  Additionally, we are polar opposites in a lot of ways and have had a great deal of benefit from learning and growing together.  She's pushed me to be a better man in many ways and I've given her self-confidence and gotten her to slow down and enjoy life more often.

I shudder to think of what I would have become had I been left to my own devices.  Maybe I would have figured it out, but there would have been a LOT more mistakes along the way.  I honestly think I may have ended up in jail or dead by now.  I'm a reckless, impulsive, short-tempered thrill seeker inside and it has taken decades of God's hand and my wife's gentle reminders to keep me from going off the rails on multiple occasions.

For me marriage has been an enormous benefit...I didn't even talk about the children aspect yet.

Great post, Jayrod. You continue to impress me. 

 

[AAABatteries]

Extra intimacy?    I'd imagine majority of married guys would fully disagree with this statement.

There’s more to intimacy than sex.

 

[matttyl]

Is it still true that divorce rates are skewed towards those who marry young and are less educated? That was my understanding at one point. That if you marry older and both have college degrees, divorce rates really drop.

Yes, and that’s the same for financial outcomes as well as life expectancy.  It’s all correlated.  

 

[AAABatteries]

I don’t plan on getting divorced but if my wife decides to or god forbid something happens to her I’m not sure I would get remarried.  But the decision to get married the first time and more importantly to the woman I married are easily in the top 5 best decisions I’ve ever made in life.

 

[Charlie Steiner]

There's an excellent scene in the original version of Yours, Mine and Ours, in which the family patriarch lays out the truth about marriage and family, starting at the 3:00 mark of the link:

Colleen North: [Helen is about to have a baby] I know this is a terrible time to talk about it, but Larry says...
Frank Beardsley: I've got a message for Larry. You tell him this is what it's all about. This is the real happening. If you want to know what love really is, take a look around you.
Helen North: What are you two talking about?
Frank Beardsley: Take a good look at your mother.
Helen North: Not now!
Frank Beardsley: Yes, now.
[to Colleen]
Frank Beardsley: It's giving life that counts. Until you're ready for it, all the rest is just a big fraud. All the crazy haircuts in the world won't keep it turning. Life isn't a love in, it's the dishes and the orthodontist and the shoe repairman and... ground round instead of roast beef. And I'll tell you something else: it isn't going to bed with a man that proves you're in love with him; it's getting up in the morning and facing the drab, miserable, wonderful everyday world with him that counts.
[Leaving the house, they say good-bye to the little kids]
Frank Beardsley: I suppose having 19 kids is carrying it a bit too far, but if we had it to do over who would we skip... you?

The bolded part is what I think is the most important concept one needs to consider before deciding to marry. Better yet, run through the usual items mentioned in the wedding vows, i.e., for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness AND in health, etc., long before even thinking about proposing. If you don't buy into even one of them, then stay single; but, once you believe you could go through all of those things with that person, then there's no price you won't pay to be married to them.

 

[belljr]

Married men are more likely to earn more money and live healthier longer lives.

SCIENCE!@!@!

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/21/married-men-are-earning-much-more-money-than-everyone-else-in-america.html

https://www.health.harvard.edu/mens-health/marriage-and-mens-health#:~:text=Over a 17-year period,survival rate (49 months).

These are studies you cjw mentioned

 

[dkp993]

I don’t plan on getting divorced but if my wife decides to or god forbid something happens to her I’m not sure I would get remarried.  But the decision to get married the first time and more importantly to the woman I married are easily in the top 5 best decisions I’ve ever made in life.

I agree with all of this.  For me being an only child I have no issues being alone, so the thought of it doesn’t scare me.  But marriage is about finding the right person not being married for married sake.  I doubt I’d have the energy to seek out that right person again.  

 

[Kal El]

If I married you at 23 and we were still together today that means you must have been on a hell of a journey, too. Oh my. That would have been fun if you could stand it. 

(And the other women that I would have needed along the way.)

Marriage. 

Hah. Marriage. 

That's so...foreign. 

I married my wife when I was 22, she was 21. I’m 36 now, and we’ve had a great journey so far. I wouldn’t trade it for the universe.

 

[offdee]

There's an excellent scene in the original version of Yours, Mine and Ours, in which the family patriarch lays out the truth about marriage and family, starting at the 3:00 mark of the link:

The bolded part is what I think is the most important concept one needs to consider before deciding to marry. Better yet, run through the usual items mentioned in the wedding vows, i.e., for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness AND in health, etc., long before even thinking about proposing. If you don't buy into even one of them, then stay single; but, once you believe you could go through all of those things with that person, then there's no price you won't pay to be married to them.

And if your new wife ends up becoming a completely different person than she was before that ceremony…then what?   This unfortunately is the harsh reality for many marriages.  Your wife isn’t the same woman that you were dating when you made these decisions 

 

[rockaction]

I married my wife when I was 22, she was 21. I’m 36 now, and we’ve had a great journey so far. I wouldn’t trade it for the universe.

Yeah, I believe that. I really do. Mine just would have been a funny/depraved journey.

Does your journey involve crack addiction and transporting cocaine from crack house to crack house? Not sure a woman is ever down for that, unless you treat her like dealers treat their women. 

 

[dgreen]

I guess what I'm saying is that Marriage doesn't really prevent anybody from leaving the relationship if one/both really want it to happen.  It just makes it a pain in the a$$ to do it. 

And I am for committed monogamous relationships if that's what makes both people happy.   

You're question to me exactly stated...you have no problem with someone leaving the relationship if they aren't happy?   I'd answer...what's the point of being in a relationship if you're not happy?    If the relationship isn't making you happy, life is too short....take a different path to happiness.  Whether that be by yourself or with someone else.

To me, this seems like you are putting all relationship on the same playing field. But maybe I'm misunderstanding because I assume you see a hierarchy of relationships in your life; that you are more committed to some people than others.

Again, to me, this seems like perpetual dating. Dating is the stage to figure that stuff out and easily separate if what you want out of the relationship isn't there. But at the point of marriage, it should be a different relationship than your dates or friendships or other relationships where you can easily avoid them if you can't be happy around them. 

So, to your question: "what's the point of being in a relationship if you're not happy?" It's a great question. I'm not attempting to provide a universal answer or an answer for you here, but just explaining how I theoretically see my relationships. While I repeatedly fail to live this out, I'm not sure I think my life and my relationships should be primarily about making me happy. I'm a big believer in not placing my happiness on someone else's shoulders. I think it's unfair to my wife for me to put that expectation on her. If I'm not happy, that's on me and not on others.

I'd like to think there's another reason for my relationships with others. Maybe to make them happy. To make their lives better. Again, I fail at that. I'm selfish. I tend to focus on whether or not someone is making me happy. But, I believe that's the way I should be and I hope that I'm moving in that direction every day.

 

[Runkle]

I'm 44, never wanted kids and never been particularly religious, so, there is zero upside to getting married, ever.

I've got a girl I've been dating about six years, and I get plenty of emotional support from her. Another girl I've been dating for three years that I get plenty of emotional support from as well. Between the two of them, I feel like nearly all my needs are met. But I still once in a while hop on Tinder and start a short-term fling with someone new, just for funsies. Goes a while, never has get too far, and is enjoyable for all. 

Honestly, the only reason I'd ever get married is because eight years ago I bought a nice bachelor pad in Los Angels that has appreciated by about $600k since, so I'm outside the range of the tax exclusion if I ever sold. It might be worth getting married in late December then divorced next January just to shelter the extra quarter of a million from the feds. That, or, if one of them needed health insurance. That's it. Otherwise, life is too good this way.

 

[Kal El]

Yeah, I believe that. I really do. Mine just would have been a funny/depraved journey.

Does your journey involve crack addiction and transporting cocaine from crack house to crack house? Not sure a woman is ever down for that, unless you treat her like dealers treat their women. 

The only crack I’ve ever had is the one I was born with, and currently provides me with a way to sit.

But I did move from MI to FL in 2007, knowing like 3 people there before I moved, and she joined me once we got married. She’s from Indiana, though.

 

[rockaction]

The only crack I’ve ever had is the one I was born with, and currently provides me with a way to sit.

But I did move from MI to FL in 2007, knowing like 3 people there before I moved, and she joined me once we got married. She’s from Indiana, though.

Some journeys take us further away in physical distance, others inward and emotionally. That's all I was saying. I traveled so far emotionally you wouldn't recognize my old self these days. 

 

[Zow]

I'm 44, never wanted kids and never been particularly religious, so, there is zero upside to getting married, ever.

I've got a girl I've been dating about six years, and I get plenty of emotional support from her. Another girl I've been dating for three years that I get plenty of emotional support from as well. Between the two of them, I feel like nearly all my needs are met. But I still once in a while hop on Tinder and start a short-term fling with someone new, just for funsies. Goes a while, never has get too far, and is enjoyable for all. 

Honestly, the only reason I'd ever get married is because eight years ago I bought a nice bachelor pad in Los Angels that has appreciated by about $600k since, so I'm outside the range of the tax exclusion if I ever sold. It might be worth getting married in late December then divorced next January just to shelter the extra quarter of a million from the feds. That, or, if one of them needed health insurance. That's it. Otherwise, life is too good this way.

Do they know about each other? Genuinely curious as, in the event I were to ever divorce (no plans to), I think I'd explore some sort of setup similar to yours as described but am wondering how one navigates it so as to not be deceitful. 

 

[eoMMan]

I'm 44, never wanted kids and never been particularly religious, so, there is zero upside to getting married, ever.

I've got a girl I've been dating about six years, and I get plenty of emotional support from her. Another girl I've been dating for three years that I get plenty of emotional support from as well. Between the two of them, I feel like nearly all my needs are met. But I still once in a while hop on Tinder and start a short-term fling with someone new, just for funsies. Goes a while, never has get too far, and is enjoyable for all. 

Honestly, the only reason I'd ever get married is because eight years ago I bought a nice bachelor pad in Los Angels that has appreciated by about $600k since, so I'm outside the range of the tax exclusion if I ever sold. It might be worth getting married in late December then divorced next January just to shelter the extra quarter of a million from the feds. That, or, if one of them needed health insurance. That's it. Otherwise, life is too good this way.

Do the girls you’re “dating” know about your Tinder funnsies?

They don’t sound like committed relationships and I highly doubt they would give the same level of “emotional support” as a relationship where you two were exclusive.

 

[eoMMan]

On 2 and 3 - often times it’s the opposite for 2.  Especially if already divorced once with kids.  Lots of my parents friends have had a prior divorce in life and don’t want to get remarried purely for financial reasons.  They are affluent and things could easily get messy, especially with kids from first marriage.  In those situations, as for your point 3, they just say “this is Tom” and don’t go into details when making intros.  Whats yours is yours; what’s mine is mine (and when eventually by my kid’s when I’m gone).  

Oh yeah, totally different story if you were divorced before and have kids from a prior relationship. That makes things complicated for sure.

 

[rockaction]

I think I'd explore some sort of setup similar to yours as described but am wondering how one navigates it so as to not be deceitful. 

There is almost no way, Woz. C'mon you do family law. You should know women when it comes to that sort of stuff. Perhaps back to the drug dealing thing. I've had women show up on doorsteps while I answer the door. 

"I can smell the ##### from here" they've said with disgust. 

They do NOT dig on dating two at once. 

 

[Kal El]

Some journeys take us further away in physical distance, others inward and emotionally. That's all I was saying. I traveled so far emotionally you wouldn't recognize my old self these days. 

I’m there with you, my journey has been both physical and emotional. I’m not the same guy I was when I got married, but I’m happy to say I’m better than I was. My wife also isn’t the girl I married, and that’s great, too. We’re building our lives together, and change is inevitable, but I’m excited for us.

 

[Runkle]

What you're talking about is the "Relationship Escalator". It's society's imposed structure on how relationships are "supposed" to go. First date, first kiss, by date three you're in bed together. By date seven it's just assumed you'll see each other every weekend. First trip away together. Giving her a drawer to keep her stuff in your house. Meeting each other's parents. Talk of moving in together after one year. Another six months and you have to start the marriage talk. Then you have to get married, have kids, and be together forever.

Every step on the dating journey is a little bit higher on the escalator. And either you keep progressing and make it to the top, or the relationship is a "failure". Right?

Here's the thing... nope. It's perfectly okay to get into a relationship and just not ride the escalator. Or just ride it up a few levels and stop. That's fine. You can keep the plateau and enjoy it for a long, long time. It's totally ok to date someone for a decade and longer and still live in separate houses and have separate finances and just not want to go any further with that person. To reach a nice, comfortable level and just say to each other, "Hey, this is just great. I don't think I want any of the stuff that comes with escalating this up any higher, though. But we're so cool with how things are right now, why not keep it like this forever?" and then do just that.

Let me tell you, it's amazing and so liberating. And there are plenty of women out there that are ok with this, if you bring it up early and actively seek out likeminded partners. Just find someone who's already accepted that they don't have to ride the Escalator, and see how it goes. It's awesome. 

 

[Zow]

Do the girls you’re “dating” know about your Tinder funnsies?

They don’t sound like committed relationships and I highly doubt they would give the same level of “emotional support” as a relationship where you two were exclusive.

I don't think he's saying that though. I think he's saying that they merely provide the level of emotional support he needs (which likely isn't much). 

I say the above because, again, if I were to ever divorce (no plans to), I think I'm the type of person who wouldn't need much direct emotional support but would enjoy the idea that I have somebody to call and vice versa if I'm looking for companionship, romance, sex, etc. I say this further because, oddly, having now been married almost a decade in the rare moments I think back upon my prior dating life or whatever it's oddly the much more casual relationships that I had that I think more fondly about. Those really were nice relationships to have at that time in my life (starting my career, having expendable income to do selfish/fun things, etc.) and I think if I ever did divorce I'd want something similar again as I imagine I'd then want a similar situation where a full daily commitment isn't necessary. 

 

[Zow]

What you're talking about is the "Relationship Escalator". It's society's imposed structure on how relationships are "supposed" to go. First date, first kiss, by date three you're in bed together. By date seven it's just assumed you'll see each other every weekend. First trip away together. Giving her a drawer to keep her stuff in your house. Meeting each other's parents. Talk of moving in together after one year. Another six months and you have to start the marriage talk. Then you have to get married, have kids, and be together forever.

Every step on the dating journey is a little bit higher on the escalator. And either you keep progressing and make it to the top, or the relationship is a "failure". Right?

Here's the thing... nope. It's perfectly okay to get into a relationship and just not ride the escalator. Or just ride it up a few levels and stop. That's fine. You can keep the plateau and enjoy it for a long, long time. It's totally ok to date someone for a decade and longer and still live in separate houses and have separate finances and just not want to go any further with that person. To reach a nice, comfortable level and just say to each other, "Hey, this is just great. I don't think I want any of the stuff that comes with escalating this up any higher, though. But we're so cool with how things are right now, why not keep it like this forever?" and then do just that.

Let me tell you, it's amazing and so liberating. And there are plenty of women out there that are ok with this, if you bring it up early and actively seek out likeminded partners. Just find someone who's already accepted that they don't have to ride the Escalator, and see how it goes. It's awesome. 

So... do they know about each other or not?  

 

[-OZ-]

The upside to marriage: 

- financial benefits: tax, wife is carried on my health insurance which is free, we can contribute to her Roth IRA without her making $6k in income, kids are on my health insurance without proving they’re mine, I get a little extra in VA benefits and while active duty we got more in BAH. 
- our families like it. 
- for the kids, there’s an emotional stability element. 
- we wouldn’t have been able to adopt our daughter without being married. 
 

 

[Runkle]

Do they know about each other? Genuinely curious as, in the event I were to ever divorce (no plans to), I think I'd explore some sort of setup similar to yours as described but am wondering how one navigates it so as to not be deceitful. 

Do the girls you’re “dating” know about your Tinder funnsies?

They don’t sound like committed relationships and I highly doubt they would give the same level of “emotional support” as a relationship where you two were exclusive.

Of course. It's all out in the open. Why hide it? 

They all know. It's great. It also makes the relationships so much easier and fun because I never feel like I have to compromise. For example, one of the girls is vegan. I love her, she's great. But I also wanna go to a steakhouse every once in a while. So I invite the other girl. One doesn't like football so when I get game tickets I take someone else. One likes horror movies, the other doesn't. Stuff like that. Whenever I'm with one of them, we only do the things we both like to do together. 

And after all we've been through together over the years, highs, lows, loss, grief, challenges, successes.... there's real emotional support there. I don't feel like I'm short on anything or have anything missing. Nor do I feel like going through some ceremony is required to get what I have.  

 

[jwb]

 The concept of legal marriage is just archaic and silly.

For you.

 

[belljr]

What you're talking about is the "Relationship Escalator". It's society's imposed structure on how relationships are "supposed" to go. First date, first kiss, by date three you're in bed together. By date seven it's just assumed you'll see each other every weekend. First trip away together. Giving her a drawer to keep her stuff in your house. Meeting each other's parents. Talk of moving in together after one year. Another six months and you have to start the marriage talk. Then you have to get married, have kids, and be together forever.

Every step on the dating journey is a little bit higher on the escalator. And either you keep progressing and make it to the top, or the relationship is a "failure". Right?

Here's the thing... nope. It's perfectly okay to get into a relationship and just not ride the escalator. Or just ride it up a few levels and stop. That's fine. You can keep the plateau and enjoy it for a long, long time. It's totally ok to date someone for a decade and longer and still live in separate houses and have separate finances and just not want to go any further with that person. To reach a nice, comfortable level and just say to each other, "Hey, this is just great. I don't think I want any of the stuff that comes with escalating this up any higher, though. But we're so cool with how things are right now, why not keep it like this forever?" and then do just that.

Let me tell you, it's amazing and so liberating. And there are plenty of women out there that are ok with this, if you bring it up early and actively seek out likeminded partners. Just find someone who's already accepted that they don't have to ride the Escalator, and see how it goes. It's awesome. 

I can't speak for everyone but I didn't take the "escalator to the top" with the first person I dated.   I will say I'm a firm believer in waiting to get married .......I don't think everyone is trying to ride to the top in every relationship

It also helps to date a lot when younger imo

 

[Jackstraw]

I’d be interested in How it works out in the backside of live for the non/never marrieds. Loneliness, no children for support as you age etc. 

 

[dgreen]

And if your new wife ends up becoming a completely different person than she was before that ceremony…then what?   This unfortunately is the harsh reality for many marriages.  Your wife isn’t the same woman that you were dating when you made these decisions 

No comment about what to do if it reaches that point, but a thought about doing what you can to not get there. Your hypothetical is a reason why so many religious people (I'm specifically thinking of Christians since I am Christian and that's what I'm mostly familiar with) suggest marrying within the same faith. No, that's not a 100% lock to prevent people from changing to the point that relationships have completely changed, but it does start things off on the same foundation when it comes to what the relationship is supposed to be and what the options are for when things go bad. Or at least it should help with that.

 

[Capella]

I turn 46 next week and dating for me is so fun and entertaining.   I have about 5 different options at any one time with no big commitments. Ages range from 24 yrs old to 44 yrs old.  Living the dream.

That’s great. I would get tired of talking to that many meaningless people. Keeping interest in that many people I don’t care about is my version of hell. Different things for different people. 

 

[TLEF316]

I’d be interested in How it works out in the backside of live for the non/never marrieds. Loneliness, no children for support as you age etc. 

As a 38 year old with basically no desire to get married, this is something I struggle with for sure.

The bottom line is I know I'd be a crappy husband. (mostly because I'm a selfish person that doesn't want to "waste time" doing stuff I dont want to do. The first time I was forced to go to my wife's co-worker's 1 year olds' birthday party...I'd have 1 foot out the door) So if I were to get married, it would likely end in divorce. And with divorce laws being what they are, I'd be screwed out of half my stuff and the (as of now) 15 years of work I've put into building my career would go right down the drain.

But yeah....I realize this choice has severe consequences. I'm probably never going to have kids....I'm probably going to die alone. Its a sad thing for sure. I guess I've just decided I'd rather be sad at 80 than 40.

 

[belljr]

As a 38 year old with basically no desire to get married, this is something I struggle with for sure.

The bottom line is I know I'd be a crappy husband. (mostly because I'm a selfish person that doesn't want to "waste time" doing stuff I dont want to do. The first time I was forced to go to my wife's co-worker's 1 year olds' birthday party...I'd have 1 foot out the door) So if I were to get married, it would likely end in divorce. And with divorce laws being what they are, I'd be screwed out of half my stuff and the (as of now) 15 years of work I've put into building my career would go right down the drain.

But yeah....I realize this choice has severe consequences. I'm probably never going to have kids....I'm probably going to die alone. Its a sad thing for sure. I guess I've just decided I'd rather be sad at 80 than 40.

That's the great thing about my wife, she wouldn't make me go to a coworkers kids birthday. She knows I'd rather stab my eyeballs out. That doesn't mean obviously there aren't things I do for the sake of her (that's kind of what it's all about), but on the whole that's part of what makes us work. And obviously it hasn't been all roses and gum drops

 

[Charlie Steiner]

And if your new wife ends up becoming a completely different person than she was before that ceremony…then what?   This unfortunately is the harsh reality for many marriages.  Your wife isn’t the same woman that you were dating when you made these decisions 

This Summer will mark 25 years of marriage for me. I know first-hand how people change over time; in fact, I've changed in 'worse' ways than my wife has, so I do know the 'harsh' reality.

TBH, I'm not trying to do anyone's thinking for them or defend the institution of marriage as always inviolate, I just believe that certain things are better to consider than others when contemplating marriage.

Also, I'm as bad as anyone at being indecisive, so all I can say, thanks to many years experience at it, is that if the fear of the unknown is going to weigh you down so that you don't want to take that chance, nothing I could say will convince you to do otherwise. There are a lot of life stories I don't have because I was too timid to take a chance, but fortunately proposing to my current wife will never be one of those.