Where most of the NFL went wrong... (2 Viewers)

[Joe Bryant]

Again, not saying it's right or wrong. But for those that didn't understand the issue being talked about:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5508220

Granted, White will fall on many draft boards because of the hamstring, but his immaturity regarding his playing weight is of bigger concern.

"When you're young and fat, it's pretty obvious that there's a good chance of you getting older and fatter," said a NFC personnel director. "I started calling him 'Fat Boy' in Indianapolis and he's only gotten bigger since then. It's a concern that he's allowed himself to get out of good physical condition."

Yes, White put on six more pounds for USC's pro day on April 2, making him 244 pounds. Of course, White prides himself in that he weighed 252 pounds when he played and scored three touchdowns against Texas in the national championship game. He joked about eating a whole turkey on Thanksgiving and munching on plates of his mother's homemade macaroni and cheese.

This is why White's teammate, Reggie Bush, looked awesome at the same Pro Day. While White was basically lounging around USC in sweats, Bush was wowing the scouts with his physical condition and 4.38 time. He also did 24 repetitions of 225 pounds while lifting. White, who is 44 pounds heavier than Bush, checked in with a paltry 15 repetitions.

His weight and lack of strength, believe me, are bigger concerns to NFL teams looking to select him in the first round.

J

 

[LHUCKS]

It's been defined to death. 

Whether one wants to acknowledge them or put any stock into them is another matter.

The issues are that White gives the impression that he just doesn't get it. From not being able to control his weight to what seemed like a totally lackluster pro day benching only more than the punter to making comments he felt the QB from (at the time) his most recent opponent was better than his most recent QB not far off from T.O. pining for Brett Farvre over McNabb.

Perhaps none of those things mean anything at all. We won't know for a while. But those are the issues people are talking about.

J

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Control his weight? His weight is down from the Rose Bowl.His lackluster pro day had nothing to do with character.

That comment about Young/Leinart was not bashing Leinart at all, and is a complete stretch to compare that to T.O. since Leinart was no longer his teammate.

If this is the best people can do about saying what a bad character the guy is, then he has better character than the majority of players in the NFL.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To play devil's advocate, his torn hamstring had nothing to do with his bench press. Now whether or not a bench press showing has anything to do with how good of an NFL RB you're going to be is up for debate, but most persons would give a little more effort here. I agree with you and the Titans' front office that the character issue is overblown here. That being said it's well known that you don't throw your QB under the bus. Even if you think what you're saying is true, it's an unwritten rule that you don't necessarily state the truth...that's the just the way the world works.

 

[GregR_2]

White's actions/interviews and lack of work out created questions in the minds of NFL teams as to his character.

One NFL team had a key member of the coaching staff, with loyalties to the NFL team moreso than to White, with personal experience with White that contradicted that impression.

Of course that team would value him higher. It doesn't mean other teams made the wrong decision for the info they had to work with. It just means the Titans had more info.

I don't see a disconnect between what happened and what should have happened. Now of course the question is whether Chow is right about White, and a few seasons should show the answer.

 

[cstu]

Quite simply, White seems to have the inherent ability to get it done north-south like few others I've seen. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Except on his last play as a Trojan.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hopefully he uses that as fuel...
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and not donuts.

 

[jurb26]

That comment about Young/Leinart was not bashing Leinart at all, and is a complete stretch to compare that to T.O. since Leinart was no longer his teammate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice to see an huge SC fan agrees with me here. Hell, I don't even likc SC.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By this logic, I assume you are predicting that Leinart will bust since Chow didn't draft him when he had the opportunity to at #3 after "real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis".

 

[jurb26]

Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By this logic, I assume you are predicting that Leinart will bust since Chow didn't draft him when he had the opportunity to at #3 after "real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wasn't it said that Chow did lobby for Matt rather hard?

 

[LHUCKS]

White's actions/interviews and lack of work out created questions in the minds of NFL teams as to his character.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wonder if most scouts/GMs belive a few years of playing college football at a high level, supercede one day of workouts??I think the NFL scouts/analysts get so caught up in the measurables and what they see in one interview that they forget to see the big picture and the entire body of work...ie what the kid did in college or his overall work ethic in collge.

 

[fatness]

It's been defined to death. 

Whether one wants to acknowledge them or put any stock into them is another matter.

The issues are that White gives the impression that he just doesn't get it. From not being able to control his weight to what seemed like a totally lackluster pro day benching only more than the punter to making comments he felt the QB from (at the time) his most recent opponent was better than his most recent QB not far off from T.O. pining for Brett Farvre over McNabb.

Perhaps none of those things mean anything at all. We won't know for a while. But those are the issues people are talking about.

J

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those are things that happened (or gave an impression) in the 3 months between season's end and the NFL draft.Were there "character issues" with White while in college? I'd regard that as more significant. Thanks.

 

[tommyGunZ]

It's been defined to death. 

Whether one wants to acknowledge them or put any stock into them is another matter.

The issues are that White gives the impression that he just doesn't get it. From not being able to control his weight to what seemed like a totally lackluster pro day benching only more than the punter to making comments he felt the QB from (at the time) his most recent opponent was better than his most recent QB not far off from T.O. pining for Brett Farvre over McNabb.

Perhaps none of those things mean anything at all. We won't know for a while. But those are the issues people are talking about.

J

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Control his weight? His weight is down from the Rose Bowl.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do we have proof of his playing weight at the Rose Bowl? It's in White's interest to suggest that he played at a higher weight when the concerns over his conditioning arose.Are you just taking his word for it?

 

[LHUCKS]

Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By this logic, I assume you are predicting that Leinart will bust since Chow didn't draft him when he had the opportunity to at #3 after "real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wasn't it said that Chow did lobby for Matt rather hard?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, although the Titans are denying it, many close to the organization are saying that Fisher and Chow both wanted Leinart.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Something was bothering me about why Lendale White slid.  After having watched the kid play for the last couple of years, I believed without hesitation that the kid was made for the pro game.  Then after listening to ESPN radio's Colin Cowherd this morning I realized what was bothering me when Cowhered made the point that I just couldn't seem to articulate...and he did so by paraphrasing Norm Chow.  Chow after the draft said, "White is the most misunderstood player in this draft."  Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This pick made me sad to be a Titans fan.

We used to be one of those teams that valued character and work ethic, but with Reese realizing his job will soon be gone, he's abandoned that practice in favor of adding any athlete, no matter what their character concerns.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What character issues does White have?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've been asking for this to be defined for months now.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's been defined to death. Whether one wants to acknowledge them or put any stock into them is another matter.

The issues are that White gives the impression that he just doesn't get it. From not being able to control his weight to what seemed like a totally lackluster pro day benching only more than the punter to making comments he felt the QB from (at the time) his most recent opponent was better than his most recent QB not far off from T.O. pining for Brett Farvre over McNabb.

Perhaps none of those things mean anything at all. We won't know for a while. But those are the issues people are talking about.

J

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that is it...a lot of teams kind of feel he "doesn't get it", and it's more from an overall qualitative observation/opinion, than one startling incident.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's more. He is very immature. Remember the practical joke from the roof at practice? He's a kid. He hasn't taken a man's approach to football because he hasn't had to. He runs with a "bad crowd" according to some scouts. Mostly he's just childish and would have benefitted from a year of emotional maturity and preparation by staying in school. That said, no better place in the world for him than Tennessee. Chow knows him and should know how to handle him. LenDale is infatuated with Vince and while Vince likes to play the pimp and act like a fool, Vince isn't a "bad crowd" guy. He'll be a great influence and friend to White. This couldn't have worked out better for LenDale. Now will LenDale work out? We'll see.I do think he runs a bit like Dayne. He relies on vision and quick feet more than strength and power. But he has great vision and when he makes a decision there's no dilly dallying like Dayne did early in his career.

With the fourth pick in a rookie draft I am fully prepared to take LenDale over a rook with a higher ADP. Fisher, Chow, excellent for LenDale. Brown is a fine back, but we know his problems. Henry, meh. Not as worried about LenDale as I am other's situations.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By this logic, I assume you are predicting that Leinart will bust since Chow didn't draft him when he had the opportunity to at #3 after "real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wasn't it said that Chow did lobby for Matt rather hard?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I heard that from one source, but for all we know it was spin, b/c the proof is in the draft pick. Although I don't doubt that Adams wanted Young, Chow is the expert, and if he was lobbying hard for Leinart and Adams chose to ignore his expert, that's evidence that "Tennessee got it wrong" in this draft instead of the original poster's premise based on a mid-second round pick.

 

[jurb26]

There's more.  He is very immature.  Remember the practical joke from the roof at practice?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you refering to the practical joke that COACH CARROLL set up in an effort to create a more lighthearted approach to practice?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Those are things that happened (or gave an impression) in the 3 months between season's end and the NFL draft.

Were there "character issues" with White while in college? I'd regard that as more significant. Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi fat,And that's certainly you're right to regard them as more significant. I just listed the recent issues for jwrb the issues who said he was having a hard time defining them.

But to be fair, the 3 months before the draft are a hugely important time for a prospect. Whether that's right or wrong is certainly up for discussion. But that's reality.

J

 

[tommyGunZ]

Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By this logic, I assume you are predicting that Leinart will bust since Chow didn't draft him when he had the opportunity to at #3 after "real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wasn't it said that Chow did lobby for Matt rather hard?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, although the Titans are denying it, many close to the organization are saying that Fisher and Chow both wanted Leinart.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you're saying that the Titans "went wrong"? You're siding with the owner's talent evaluation over the coach and offensive guru?What's the word on Reese? Did he want Leinart?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By this logic, I assume you are predicting that Leinart will bust since Chow didn't draft him when he had the opportunity to at #3 after "real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wasn't it said that Chow did lobby for Matt rather hard?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, although the Titans are denying it, many close to the organization are saying that Fisher and Chow both wanted Leinart.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi LHUCK,I'd really be interested in this one. Where are you hearing this? I hear rumors and buzz but nothing I can call concrete. I have a hard time thinking that two high profile guys like Fisher and Chow couldn't carry the vote there over Reese unless Reese was just adamantly against Leinart. Or if Fisher and Chow were not adamantly for Leinart over Young. You think we'll ever hear the truth?

J

 

[Joe Bryant]

To add, Chow is smart enough to never come out and say anything like Lendale White did about Young.

J

 

[LHUCKS]

Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By this logic, I assume you are predicting that Leinart will bust since Chow didn't draft him when he had the opportunity to at #3 after "real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wasn't it said that Chow did lobby for Matt rather hard?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, although the Titans are denying it, many close to the organization are saying that Fisher and Chow both wanted Leinart.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you're saying that the Titans "went wrong"? You're siding with the owner's talent evaluation over the coach and offensive guru?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

huh? If I were the Titans I would have drafted Leinart...not sure what you're asking here?

 

[tommyGunZ]

But to be fair, the 3 months before the draft are a hugely important time for a prospect. Whether that's right or wrong is certainly up for discussion. But that's reality.

J

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm of the opinion that you find out a lot about the character and work ethic of a player in the 3 months before the draft.

Reggie Bush - didn't have to run once and still would have been a top 5 pick, yet he showed up in phenomenal shape and produced an eye popping workout.

White - with EVERYTHING to prove, and millions hanging in the balance, he spent the past 3 months lounging.

I know what I would take from this....

 

[fatness]

Were there "character issues" with White while in college?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Open question.

 

[LHUCKS]

Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By this logic, I assume you are predicting that Leinart will bust since Chow didn't draft him when he had the opportunity to at #3 after "real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wasn't it said that Chow did lobby for Matt rather hard?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, although the Titans are denying it, many close to the organization are saying that Fisher and Chow both wanted Leinart.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi LHUCK,I'd really be interested in this one. Where are you hearing this? I hear rumors and buzz but nothing I can call concrete. I have a hard time thinking that two high profile guys like Fisher and Chow couldn't carry the vote there over Reese unless Reese was just adamantly against Leinart. Or if Fisher and Chow were not adamantly for Leinart over Young. You think we'll ever hear the truth?

J

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

we'll never here the truth for sure, not until Fisher and Chow are gone from TENN anyway. But it is well known that unidentified sources were stating there was a split amongst the Titans brass...Cowherd even brought it up in his interview with Reese this morning....Reese laughed it off and denied it.

 

[LHUCKS]

Were there "character issues" with White while in college?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Open question.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

not reallyhe got a little huffy about not getting enough touches, and who wouldn't if you were a first round talent stuck behind Reggie Bush.

Also, there was a fake gun incident I think.

But all in all not a lot to report over a three year span.

 

[Sammy3469]

Not being able to keep you're weight down from the end of the season until the draft is a HUGE issue for these teams when deciding if you want to spend a first round pick (and the $$$ and cap dollars associated with it) on the guy.

This is the biggest day of the guy's life and he can't do it for 3 months? What makes anyone believe he'll do it 2 years down the line. That's the issue.

 

[LHUCKS]

Not being able to keep you're weight down from the end of the season until the draft is a HUGE issue for these teams when deciding if you want to spend a first round pick (and the $$$ and cap dollars associated with it) on the guy. 

This is the biggest day of the guy's life and he can't do it for 3 months?  What makes anyone believe he'll do it 2 years down the line.  That's the issue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

torn hamstring...proven with MRI

 

[jurb26]

But to be fair, the 3 months before the draft are a hugely important time for a prospect. Whether that's right or wrong is certainly up for discussion. But that's reality.

J

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm of the opinion that you find out a lot about the character and work ethic of a player in the 3 months before the draft.

Reggie Bush - didn't have to run once and still would have been a top 5 pick, yet he showed up in phenomenal shape and produced an eye popping workout.

White - with EVERYTHING to prove, and millions hanging in the balance, he spent the past 3 months lounging.

I know what I would take from this....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ummm, Reggie Bush did not have a torn hamstring....Whats funny is that at the time, people accused White as having faked the injury. MRI comes back and proves he was not... now we move on to he has charature issues for not running with it, gaining a few lbs from inactivity (what do you expect when YOU CAN'T RUN?) and jeopordizing his NFL career and ability to make it to camp on time. The bench press is a bit concerning, but seriously WTF really even looks at RB bench numbers and how important do you really think they are?

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Hi LHucks,

Can you elaborate more on what Cowherd said?

Thanks.

J

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Joe,Cowherd was interviewing Titans' GM Floyd Reese and brought up the topic of the value that Lendale White appeared to be. Lloyd explained how Chow was a staunch supporter of White's and has said that "he's the most misunderstood player in this draft." Reese basically stated they took a chance on this kid based on Chow's insistance that the negative reports and unflattering workout days are not what this kid is about, nor do they reflect his ability to succeed at the next level.

Afterwards Cowherd summarized by saying, do you trust one day of workouts or do you trust Pac10 scoring records, NFL makeup and a coach that worked with the kid on a daily basis for two years that is putting his credibility on the line as a talent evaluator.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, with this being said........I think it's safe to say as far as Norm Chow is concerned he believes Vince Young is a better QB than Matt Leinhart. With what you're saying, Chow definately has the ear and confidence of the Draft War Room and if he thought Leinhart was the guy to get, then they would have got him over Young.As much as you can bank on White being SOD, you can also bank on Young being a better QB than Leinhart as well!

 

[Joe Bryant]

we'll never here the truth for sure, not until Fisher and Chow are gone from TENN anyway.  But it is well known that unidentified sources were stating there was a split amongst the Titans brass...Cowherd even brought it up in his interview with Reese this morning....Reese laughed it off and denied it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, that's the same stuff I hear. And with today's standards, it's just tough to believe the "unidentified" stuff.I fall back on the thing that if Fisher / Chow really wanted Leinart enough, they'd have him. It's just like the love White is getting because Chow says it. If a guy like Chow lobbied hard for Leinart, you'd have to think he'd get him.

Interesting.

J

 

[tommyGunZ]

Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By this logic, I assume you are predicting that Leinart will bust since Chow didn't draft him when he had the opportunity to at #3 after "real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wasn't it said that Chow did lobby for Matt rather hard?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, although the Titans are denying it, many close to the organization are saying that Fisher and Chow both wanted Leinart.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you're saying that the Titans "went wrong"? You're siding with the owner's talent evaluation over the coach and offensive guru?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

huh? If I were the Titans I would have drafted Leinart...not sure what you're asking here?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's my point: You use the rumors that Chow lobbied and pressured the Titans into taking White as evidence that the concerns over White's character were overblown since his old college coach wanted him badly.

Using that logic, shouldn't we be concerned about Leinart's future since his old coach apparently didn't lobby or pressure the Titans hard enough to take Leinart over Young? Or do you believe Reese and Adams ignored Chow's efforts and took Young?

 

[Joe Bryant]

gaining a few lbs from inactivity (what do you expect when YOU CAN'T RUN?)  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just a wild guess but I'll go with "don't eat as much as you normally do" there. Especially with millions of reasons on the line.

J

 

[jurb26]

Hi LHucks,

Can you elaborate more on what Cowherd said?

Thanks.

J

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Joe,Cowherd was interviewing Titans' GM Floyd Reese and brought up the topic of the value that Lendale White appeared to be. Lloyd explained how Chow was a staunch supporter of White's and has said that "he's the most misunderstood player in this draft." Reese basically stated they took a chance on this kid based on Chow's insistance that the negative reports and unflattering workout days are not what this kid is about, nor do they reflect his ability to succeed at the next level.

Afterwards Cowherd summarized by saying, do you trust one day of workouts or do you trust Pac10 scoring records, NFL makeup and a coach that worked with the kid on a daily basis for two years that is putting his credibility on the line as a talent evaluator.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, with this being said........I think it's safe to say as far as Norm Chow is concerned he believes Vince Young is a better QB than Matt Leinhart. With what you're saying, Chow definately has the ear and confidence of the Draft War Room and if he thought Leinhart was the guy to get, then they would have got him over Young.As much as you can bank on White being SOD, you can also bank on Young being a better QB than Leinhart as well!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well Chow did want to start someone over Matt in his 1st year. Can't remember the guys name though. I think Carroll overrided him.

 

[LHUCKS]

So, with this being said........I think it's safe to say as far as Norm Chow is concerned he believes Vince Young is a better QB than Matt Leinhart.  With what you're saying, Chow definately has the ear and confidence of the Draft War Room and if he thought Leinhart was the guy to get, then they would have got him over Young.

As much as you can bank on White being SOD, you can also bank on Young being a better QB than Leinhart as well!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I follow your logic, but Chow's opinion is just one of several. Chow probably had a lot more additionaly backing from the rest of the thinktank than did Leinart.Hell...Reese almost called the guy the SOD...he said something to that effect.

 

[Neo]

I heard his torn hamstring happened when he was running from the cops after snatching an old woman's purse.

In all seriousness, how did he tear the hamstring? Does anyone know.

 

[pinequick]

Character concern #1 - He didn't put the necessary work in to improve his draft position

Will anybody else be happy when any player Norm Chow ever coached in college graduates?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What work should he have put in with a torn hamstring?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fair enough, but isn't the bigger question about how that hamstring came to be torn? Was it from overuse, or lack of conditioning and then trying to hurry to get into shape and tearing it? Obviously, I think teams were worried about the latter.Second (and not that the bench press means much) but how exactly does a torn hamstring keep you from working out your upper body to prepare for your pro day? Having the punter bench you to a dead heat? Come on--it's the punter!!

Obviously, White supporters will point to the injuries for his (lack of) conditioning. White doubters will point to his (lack of) conditioning for his injuries. And if the White doubters are right, then *lack of work ethic* is a HUGE character issue at the professional level.

 

[LHUCKS]

Here's my point:

You use the rumors that Chow lobbied and pressured the Titans into taking White as evidence that the concerns over White's character were overblown since his old college coach wanted him badly.

Using that logic, shouldn't we be concerned about Leinart's future since his old coach apparently didn't lobby or pressure the Titans hard enough to take Leinart over Young?  Or do you believe Reese and Adams ignored Chow's efforts and took Young?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

your logic only works if Chow's opinion is the only one that matters...which it obviously isn't. My guess is Chow had a lot more support with his White lobby than with his Leinart lobby. We still don't even know for sure if Chow was lobbying for Leinart.

 

[Sammy3469]

Not being able to keep you're weight down from the end of the season until the draft is a HUGE issue for these teams when deciding if you want to spend a first round pick (and the $$$ and cap dollars associated with it) on the guy. 

This is the biggest day of the guy's life and he can't do it for 3 months?  What makes anyone believe he'll do it 2 years down the line.  That's the issue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

torn hamstring...proven with MRI
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It has nothing to do with the torn hamstring....if an NFL RB can't do more than 15 reps at 225, there are more serious issues going on. Last time I worked out, a torn hammy has nothing to do with you're bench press. This really to do with his health, but everything to do with his lack of professionalism.

 

[LHUCKS]

It has nothing to do with the torn hamstring....if an NFL RB can't do more than 15 reps at 225, there are more serious issues going on.  Last time I worked out, a torn hammy has nothing to do with you're bench press. 

This really to do with his health, but everything to do with his lack of professionalism.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's remember the kid is a kid. My first job out of college, I was far from a professional...did stupid stuff like get to work late, party too hard the night before a big meeting...stuff like that...and I was as sraight laced as they come growing up.But I agree, 15 reps for a man of his stature is weak, and I'm sure Lendale can think of a million reasons why he f'd that one up.

Would 15 reps and some weight gain cause him to drop to the second round on my board, given what I saw from him on the field while at USC...no way, not even close.

 

[pinequick]

It has nothing to do with the torn hamstring....if an NFL RB can't do more than 15 reps at 225, there are more serious issues going on.  Last time I worked out, a torn hammy has nothing to do with you're bench press. 

This really to do with his health, but everything to do with his lack of professionalism.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's remember the kid is a kid. My first job out of college, I was far from a professional...did stupid stuff like get to work late, party too hard the night before a big meeting...stuff like that. But I agree, 15 reps for a man of his stature is weak, and I'm sure Lendale can think of a million reasons why he f'd that one up.

Would 15 reps and some weight gain cause him to drop to the second round on my board, given what I saw from him on the field while at USC...no way, not even close.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unless you were really worried that the bench reps were an indicator that the guy is a dog, right?

 

[BlueOnion]

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cowherd was interviewing Titans' GM Floyd Reese and brought up the topic of the value that Lendale White appeared to be.  Lloyd explained how Chow was a staunch supporter of White's and has said that "he's the most misunderstood player in this draft."  Reese basically stated they took a chance on this kid based on Chow's insistance

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So let me get this straight, Norm Chow put his Titan reputation on the line insisting the Titans should select Lendale White? Knowing Chow will be calling the plays as the offensive coordinator and his Titan reputation partially hinges on White's success, does Chris Brown even have a fair shot to be the 3rd down back?

 

[jurb26]

Character concern #1 - He didn't put the necessary work in to improve his draft position

Will anybody else be happy when any player Norm Chow ever coached in college graduates?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What work should he have put in with a torn hamstring?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fair enough, but isn't the bigger question about how that hamstring came to be torn? Was it from overuse, or lack of conditioning and then trying to hurry to get into shape and tearing it? Obviously, I think teams were worried about the latter.Second (and not that the bench press means much) but how exactly does a torn hamstring keep you from working out your upper body to prepare for your pro day? Having the punter bench you to a dead heat? Come on--it's the punter!!

Obviously, White supporters will point to the injuries for his (lack of) conditioning. White doubters will point to his (lack of) conditioning for his injuries. And if the White doubters are right, then *lack of work ethic* is a HUGE character issue at the professional level.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don’t particularly care about White one-way or the other. I was actually one of the 1st people to site White for having character issues MONTHS ago and was nearly castrated for it as it was just after the NC game and his hype was starting to take off. I have tempered this opinion on him a great deal since then. I happen to agree with White in that you do not have the type of success at USC that he did with poor work ethic. You do not keep a once every 20 yrs Gale Sayers type RB off the field a great portion of the game with out both great work ethic and phenomenal natural ability! In short, I think the media has done a fantastic job of overanalyzing and criticizing White. This has created a rather sever knee-jerk reaction among a lot of football fans. Nobody ever said White was supposed to be up for the Nobel Prize. Put the tape in and watch him though. If you don’t walk away impressed and see a top-notch football player, you are simply jaded.So mabye those of you who continue to try and bring down White and his charater should ask yourself this: If White really is just a fat, lazy tub of waste with no work ethic. How good or amazing does that really make his God given abilites when you consider that Reggie Bush is God and he managed to split time with this guy? IMO it really comes down to 2 awnsers: 1. White is truely misunderstood and not the POS that everyone likes to think. 2. The guy has such phenomenal talent and ability it most likely won't matter.

 

[Family Matters]

Something was bothering me about why Lendale White slid.  After having watched the kid play for the last couple of years, I believed without hesitation that the kid was made for the pro game.  Then after listening to ESPN radio's Colin Cowherd this morning I realized what was bothering me when Cowhered made the point that I just couldn't seem to articulate...and he did so by paraphrasing Norm Chow.  Chow after the draft said, "White is the most misunderstood player in this draft."  Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great post. I heard that also. While he got a bad rap for what happened earlier this year, it's clear the kid is a football player and a good one. I think time (barring injury) will prove that.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

It has nothing to do with the torn hamstring....if an NFL RB can't do more than 15 reps at 225, there are more serious issues going on.  Last time I worked out, a torn hammy has nothing to do with you're bench press. 

This really to do with his health, but everything to do with his lack of professionalism.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's remember the kid is a kid. My first job out of college, I was far from a professional...did stupid stuff like get to work late, party too hard the night before a big meeting...stuff like that. But I agree, 15 reps for a man of his stature is weak, and I'm sure Lendale can think of a million reasons why he f'd that one up.

Would 15 reps and some weight gain cause him to drop to the second round on my board, given what I saw from him on the field while at USC...no way, not even close.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unless you were really worried that the bench reps were an indicator that the guy is a dog, right?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what I would guess alot of teams were thinking, right or wrong.

 

[Bruno2]

Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By this logic, I assume you are predicting that Leinart will bust since Chow didn't draft him when he had the opportunity to at #3 after "real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wasn't it said that Chow did lobby for Matt rather hard?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, although the Titans are denying it, many close to the organization are saying that Fisher and Chow both wanted Leinart.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi LHUCK,I'd really be interested in this one. Where are you hearing this? I hear rumors and buzz but nothing I can call concrete. I have a hard time thinking that two high profile guys like Fisher and Chow couldn't carry the vote there over Reese unless Reese was just adamantly against Leinart. Or if Fisher and Chow were not adamantly for Leinart over Young. You think we'll ever hear the truth?

J

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was wondering the same thing myself. Maybe in the end they thought Young has more "upside" than Leinart, maybe his lack of arm strength is more of an issue than we realize. Let Young hold a clipboard for a year and learn behind Volek without any pressure to get him on the field right away. Obviously, once Young learns the sytem Reese/Adams/Fisher/Chow feel he will be a better QB than Leinart.

 

[GregR_2]

White's actions/interviews and lack of work out created questions in the minds of NFL teams as to his character.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wonder if most scouts/GMs belive a few years of playing college football at a high level, supercede one day of workouts??I think the NFL scouts/analysts get so caught up in the measurables and what they see in one interview that they forget to see the big picture and the entire body of work...ie what the kid did in college or his overall work ethic in collge.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think they try to include everything they can learn about the player. How much credence each individual may give to a given factor probably varies a lot from one team to another. I've seen stories talking about this that say some teams pretty much set their board before the combine and it doesn't change, while others put a lot more stock in those workouts or interviews.I don't think there's any right or wrong way to do it though. I'm sure we could find plenty of examples of players to fit any scenario that the writing was on the wall about a player if one aspect over another had been given more credence.

 

[perry147]

Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By this logic, I assume you are predicting that Leinart will bust since Chow didn't draft him when he had the opportunity to at #3 after "real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wasn't it said that Chow did lobby for Matt rather hard?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, although the Titans are denying it, many close to the organization are saying that Fisher and Chow both wanted Leinart.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi LHUCK,I'd really be interested in this one. Where are you hearing this? I hear rumors and buzz but nothing I can call concrete. I have a hard time thinking that two high profile guys like Fisher and Chow couldn't carry the vote there over Reese unless Reese was just adamantly against Leinart. Or if Fisher and Chow were not adamantly for Leinart over Young. You think we'll ever hear the truth?

J

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was wondering the same thing myself. Maybe in the end they thought Young has more "upside" than Leinart, maybe his lack of arm strength is more of an issue than we realize. Let Young hold a clipboard for a year and learn behind Volek without any pressure to get him on the field right away. Obviously, once Young learns the sytem Reese/Adams/Fisher/Chow feel he will be a better QB than Leinart.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here is part of an article I read on another site:. TENNESSEE -- The Titans hold the key to the quarterback carousel. We know they're taking a quarterback. We just don't know which one. Unfortunately, the Titans don't either. It's either USC's Matt Leinart or Vince Young of the University of Texas, and it depends who makes the call. Coach Jeff Fisher and offensive coordinator Norm Chow want Leinart, and not just because he played at USC and quarterbacked for Chow but because, as a product of a pro-style offense, he can step in tomorrow and start. If you're Fisher, coming off a 4-12 season, that's good. But general manager Floyd Reese reportedly prefers Young, who reminds people of a bigger, better Steve McNair. The problem here is that he's not ready for the NFL and will take at least a season of sitting to absorb a pro offense. Plus, you must fit your system to his talents. Maybe owner Bud Adams casts the deciding vote here, and if that's the case I don't want to be Fisher. Adams is from Texas. In fact, he's from Houston. So is Vince Young. Draw your own conclusions.

CBSSportsline

From the way this sounds Fisher's time might be limited with the Titans.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By this logic, I assume you are predicting that Leinart will bust since Chow didn't draft him when he had the opportunity to at #3 after "real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wasn't it said that Chow did lobby for Matt rather hard?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, although the Titans are denying it, many close to the organization are saying that Fisher and Chow both wanted Leinart.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have a hard time thinking that two high profile guys like Fisher and Chow couldn't carry the vote there over Reese ...J

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Obviously, once Young learns the sytem Reese/Adams/Fisher/Chow feel he will be a better QB than Leinart.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm glad Joe and Bruno are making this point. The idea Fisher and Chow didn't get their man and were lobbying for Leinart seemed to take a life of it's own from very dubious sources. Chow coached Leinart so the assumption was he wanted him. From the assumption all these rumors started, then with the secret sources. I'm not so sure. I know Matt and Chow are friends, and I doubt Chow will ever criticize Matt publicly, but anonymous, undisclosed, sources aside, I think the Titans got their man, and the rumored fued about Leinart never was.

 

[Christo]

If I had the 1.04 rookie pick I'd certainly take White if he was there-no one can convince me that Addai is a better prospect than him no matter who drafted him.

But . . . but, since I have the 1.02 and the pre-combine grades between White, Maroney and Williams were so close, the mere fact that there is so much discussion about White's character, White will not even be a consideration for me.

 

[Traders2001]

If Henry and Brown were not there... I would say UNBELEIVABLE pick, but to be honest, he might not even see the field... maybe a carry or two unless Brown gets injured or henry bites it this year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Henry is no factor . Brown even if he doesnt get hurt White will see the field often.Why !! Brown cant get the tough yards , i believe they can control the game with a player like white but not with a player like Brown.

 

[jurb26]

If I had the 1.04 rookie pick I'd certainly take White if he was there-no one can convince me that Addai is a better prospect than him no matter who drafted him.

But . . . but, since I have the 1.02 and the pre-combine grades between White, Maroney and Williams were so close, the mere fact that there is so much discussion about White's character, White will not even be a consideration for me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Plus, Williams and Maroney ended up in far better spots.

 

[Traders2001]

If I had the 1.04 rookie pick I'd certainly take White if he was there-no one can convince me that Addai is a better prospect than him no matter who drafted him.

But . . . but, since I have the 1.02 and the pre-combine grades between White, Maroney and Williams were so close, the mere fact that there is so much discussion about White's character, White will not even be a consideration for me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe that Addai stock went up at the combine and that the Colts made a big mistake .

Addai is a very , very ordinary RB.