why are we keeping Djokovic from coming to play tennis ?? (2 Viewers)

[FairWarning]

I’m more concerned that people are more worried about a tennis player possibly having it, yet don’t see a problem with thousands of illegals cross unchecked.

 

[The General]

The law seems obsolete in light of the dominant strains being milder, and the fact that vaxed people can still spread it. We’ve had ample time to get our shots if we want them; everyone else is free to risk a more serious infection. It’s not like we still have a shortage of hospital beds, and we have more effective treatments now. The law isn’t doing much to protect anyone today imo.

I’d expect this to be reviewed and perhaps changed at some point as well. We’ll see what happens with new boosters that sound like they will target newer variants.

What’s the benefit of letting unvaxed people come in for vacation or to play tennis? Who wants to be the official who signs off on that change?

The wheels of the government move slow however especially in sweeping Issues such as this.

What's the danger of allowing non-vaccinated people into the country?

Another person who doesn’t need to be here who could potentially get sick or spread the virus around.

In the case of the story that the OP is bunched up about a non-US citizen coming here to play tennis.

This isn’t on my list of things to get concerned about.

Are you just going to ignore that vaccinated people who don't need to be here can come here and get people sick and spread the virus?

So let’s add more issues to this uneccesarly?

No, we're pointing out its a dumb policy not based in science or public health. So people trying to use $cience to justify him not being allowed come here just looks misguided.

Do you really think the US Open is safer without Djokovic?

More people would cause more issues. I’m sure it’s being evaluated but that’s the rule in place.

Public policy is slow, methodical and a blunt tool.

The tennis guy isn’t a special case any more that Pierre the Frenchman who wants to visit NY.

Am I correct to assume your stance is whatever the public policy says? You didnt seem to want to answer the question.

It's a horrendous and discriminatory policy. I'd have to start questioning the motives of people who support it.

If you cant show you are vaxed at the moment I’d say too bad, take your vacation somewhere else. Not sure if I had made my stance clear but there it is.

If they drop this down the road I wont be bothered by it either if things continue as they are.

Many of the same posters who complain about this also oddly like to keep running tallies on deaths from Covid like it’s a scorecard so I am a bit skeptical on their views on this and what point they are trying to make.

So yes, Im taking that as you are just co-signing whatever policy we run with. Even if it doesnt make sense, it's the policy.

Who is keeping running covid scorecard tallies? That was a CNN thing to do. I'm not sure what covid deaths even represent anymore. People dying from covid currently most likely have several comorbidities.

Many posters on here oddly point out deaths as some scorecard.

Regrading this policy, yeah I’ll go with what they have. As I said policies like this are like turning an oil tanker…slow to react. This isn’t really a bad thing in my view TBH.

As it relates to this I could give two ****s about the person not being able to come here to play tennis or take a vacay.

I guess when I see an outdated policy that doesn't serve public health, I don't like the policy anymore.

Perhaps it is. It is a bit easier for people on a message board to say this than a government looking through hundreds of thousands of unique cases and responsible for the health of it’s citizens.

My heart goes out to those unvaxed people who were unable to fly here to shop or play tennis.

The government could just stop denying science and acknowledge natural immunity. Or we could go the route of making this more complicated while reducing public confidence in our public health policy. Kind of seems like an easy choice to me.

The fact that our government is still confused over this situation speaks volumes.

Do less people coming into the country who have no shots mean less opportunity to have issues? If It’s yes than it’s an easy blanket policy to have in place for people determine these things.

There is no recent data to support that. The vax'd and unvax'd shed the virus for similar rates and duration.

Less people of all vaccination statuses coming into this country would lead to less issues if you want to go that route. Public health policy is supposed to be for the net benefit of society. Ignoring natural immunity doesn't do that. So this just continues to be a really poor policy that makes the policy makers look foolish.

If this is accurate then I trust they are looking into this policy and determining how to unwind it.

What causes confusion in my eyes as much as a slow moving bureaucratic mechanism is a policy that changes as the wind blows. Hopefully people understand that some level of patience should be allowed when determining wide ranging policy such as this one.

If there is a booster that is better geared towards the latest variant hopefully they keep the policy in place as far as I am concerned.

Like after 2 years of data they can't figure out natural immunity is viable. Dozens of other countries have already figured this out and implemented it. For whatever reason, this administration just can't do it.

We already know Omicron is a less lethal variant. We've known this for about 9 months now and they can't get around to updating a policy from last Oct? It just makes us look like we dont know what we are doing.

Making Djokovick take the current Wuhan strain vaccine today serves no purpose. I'm scared to think how our policy will evolve once the Omicron vaccine becomes available. At the end of the day, the current state of COVID doesn't justify the policies we have in place.

What is the latest data you are reading regarding nonvaxed and vaxed? I haven’t followed this much lately.

 

[The General]

I’m more concerned that people are more worried about a tennis player possibly having it, yet don’t see a problem with thousands of illegals cross unchecked.

Do you see a logistical difference between stopping people from flying into the country who we know about versus people who are sneaking in?

 

[Max Power]

The law seems obsolete in light of the dominant strains being milder, and the fact that vaxed people can still spread it. We’ve had ample time to get our shots if we want them; everyone else is free to risk a more serious infection. It’s not like we still have a shortage of hospital beds, and we have more effective treatments now. The law isn’t doing much to protect anyone today imo.

I’d expect this to be reviewed and perhaps changed at some point as well. We’ll see what happens with new boosters that sound like they will target newer variants.

What’s the benefit of letting unvaxed people come in for vacation or to play tennis? Who wants to be the official who signs off on that change?

The wheels of the government move slow however especially in sweeping Issues such as this.

What's the danger of allowing non-vaccinated people into the country?

Another person who doesn’t need to be here who could potentially get sick or spread the virus around.

In the case of the story that the OP is bunched up about a non-US citizen coming here to play tennis.

This isn’t on my list of things to get concerned about.

Are you just going to ignore that vaccinated people who don't need to be here can come here and get people sick and spread the virus?

So let’s add more issues to this uneccesarly?

No, we're pointing out its a dumb policy not based in science or public health. So people trying to use $cience to justify him not being allowed come here just looks misguided.

Do you really think the US Open is safer without Djokovic?

More people would cause more issues. I’m sure it’s being evaluated but that’s the rule in place.

Public policy is slow, methodical and a blunt tool.

The tennis guy isn’t a special case any more that Pierre the Frenchman who wants to visit NY.

Am I correct to assume your stance is whatever the public policy says? You didnt seem to want to answer the question.

It's a horrendous and discriminatory policy. I'd have to start questioning the motives of people who support it.

If you cant show you are vaxed at the moment I’d say too bad, take your vacation somewhere else. Not sure if I had made my stance clear but there it is.

If they drop this down the road I wont be bothered by it either if things continue as they are.

Many of the same posters who complain about this also oddly like to keep running tallies on deaths from Covid like it’s a scorecard so I am a bit skeptical on their views on this and what point they are trying to make.

So yes, Im taking that as you are just co-signing whatever policy we run with. Even if it doesnt make sense, it's the policy.

Who is keeping running covid scorecard tallies? That was a CNN thing to do. I'm not sure what covid deaths even represent anymore. People dying from covid currently most likely have several comorbidities.

Many posters on here oddly point out deaths as some scorecard.

Regrading this policy, yeah I’ll go with what they have. As I said policies like this are like turning an oil tanker…slow to react. This isn’t really a bad thing in my view TBH.

As it relates to this I could give two ****s about the person not being able to come here to play tennis or take a vacay.

I guess when I see an outdated policy that doesn't serve public health, I don't like the policy anymore.

Perhaps it is. It is a bit easier for people on a message board to say this than a government looking through hundreds of thousands of unique cases and responsible for the health of it’s citizens.

My heart goes out to those unvaxed people who were unable to fly here to shop or play tennis.

The government could just stop denying science and acknowledge natural immunity. Or we could go the route of making this more complicated while reducing public confidence in our public health policy. Kind of seems like an easy choice to me.

The fact that our government is still confused over this situation speaks volumes.

Do less people coming into the country who have no shots mean less opportunity to have issues? If It’s yes than it’s an easy blanket policy to have in place for people determine these things.

There is no recent data to support that. The vax'd and unvax'd shed the virus for similar rates and duration.

Less people of all vaccination statuses coming into this country would lead to less issues if you want to go that route. Public health policy is supposed to be for the net benefit of society. Ignoring natural immunity doesn't do that. So this just continues to be a really poor policy that makes the policy makers look foolish.

If this is accurate then I trust they are looking into this policy and determining how to unwind it.

What causes confusion in my eyes as much as a slow moving bureaucratic mechanism is a policy that changes as the wind blows. Hopefully people understand that some level of patience should be allowed when determining wide ranging policy such as this one.

If there is a booster that is better geared towards the latest variant hopefully they keep the policy in place as far as I am concerned.

Like after 2 years of data they can't figure out natural immunity is viable. Dozens of other countries have already figured this out and implemented it. For whatever reason, this administration just can't do it.

We already know Omicron is a less lethal variant. We've known this for about 9 months now and they can't get around to updating a policy from last Oct? It just makes us look like we dont know what we are doing.

Making Djokovick take the current Wuhan strain vaccine today serves no purpose. I'm scared to think how our policy will evolve once the Omicron vaccine becomes available. At the end of the day, the current state of COVID doesn't justify the policies we have in place.

What is the latest data you are reading regarding nonvaxed and vaxed? I haven’t followed this much lately.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2202092

 

[Max Power]

I’m more concerned that people are more worried about a tennis player possibly having it, yet don’t see a problem with thousands of illegals cross unchecked.

The thinking is that South America and Mexico are so horrific, the USA is the only place those people can go to be safe. Them bringing in diseases that endanger American lives is for the greater good of humanity.

 

[The General]

The law seems obsolete in light of the dominant strains being milder, and the fact that vaxed people can still spread it. We’ve had ample time to get our shots if we want them; everyone else is free to risk a more serious infection. It’s not like we still have a shortage of hospital beds, and we have more effective treatments now. The law isn’t doing much to protect anyone today imo.

I’d expect this to be reviewed and perhaps changed at some point as well. We’ll see what happens with new boosters that sound like they will target newer variants.

What’s the benefit of letting unvaxed people come in for vacation or to play tennis? Who wants to be the official who signs off on that change?

The wheels of the government move slow however especially in sweeping Issues such as this.

What's the danger of allowing non-vaccinated people into the country?

Another person who doesn’t need to be here who could potentially get sick or spread the virus around.

In the case of the story that the OP is bunched up about a non-US citizen coming here to play tennis.

This isn’t on my list of things to get concerned about.

Are you just going to ignore that vaccinated people who don't need to be here can come here and get people sick and spread the virus?

So let’s add more issues to this uneccesarly?

No, we're pointing out its a dumb policy not based in science or public health. So people trying to use $cience to justify him not being allowed come here just looks misguided.

Do you really think the US Open is safer without Djokovic?

More people would cause more issues. I’m sure it’s being evaluated but that’s the rule in place.

Public policy is slow, methodical and a blunt tool.

The tennis guy isn’t a special case any more that Pierre the Frenchman who wants to visit NY.

Am I correct to assume your stance is whatever the public policy says? You didnt seem to want to answer the question.

It's a horrendous and discriminatory policy. I'd have to start questioning the motives of people who support it.

If you cant show you are vaxed at the moment I’d say too bad, take your vacation somewhere else. Not sure if I had made my stance clear but there it is.

If they drop this down the road I wont be bothered by it either if things continue as they are.

Many of the same posters who complain about this also oddly like to keep running tallies on deaths from Covid like it’s a scorecard so I am a bit skeptical on their views on this and what point they are trying to make.

So yes, Im taking that as you are just co-signing whatever policy we run with. Even if it doesnt make sense, it's the policy.

Who is keeping running covid scorecard tallies? That was a CNN thing to do. I'm not sure what covid deaths even represent anymore. People dying from covid currently most likely have several comorbidities.

Many posters on here oddly point out deaths as some scorecard.

Regrading this policy, yeah I’ll go with what they have. As I said policies like this are like turning an oil tanker…slow to react. This isn’t really a bad thing in my view TBH.

As it relates to this I could give two ****s about the person not being able to come here to play tennis or take a vacay.

I guess when I see an outdated policy that doesn't serve public health, I don't like the policy anymore.

Perhaps it is. It is a bit easier for people on a message board to say this than a government looking through hundreds of thousands of unique cases and responsible for the health of it’s citizens.

My heart goes out to those unvaxed people who were unable to fly here to shop or play tennis.

The government could just stop denying science and acknowledge natural immunity. Or we could go the route of iimaking this more complicated while reducing public confidence in our public health policy. Kind of seems like an easy choice to me.

The fact that our government is still confused over this situation speaks volumes.

Do less people coming into the country who have no shots mean less opportunity to have issues? If It’s yes than it’s an easy blanket policy to have in place for people determine these things.

There is no recent data to support that. The vax'd and unvax'd shed the virus for similar rates and duration.

Less people of all vaccination statuses coming into this country would lead to less issues if you want to go that route. Public health policy is supposed to be for the net benefit of society. Ignoring natural immunity doesn't do that. So this just continues to be a really poor policy that makes the policy makers look foolish.

If this is accurate then I trust they are looking into this policy and determining how to unwind it.

What causes confusion in my eyes as much as a slow moving bureaucratic mechanism is a policy that changes as the wind blows. Hopefully people understand that some level of patience should be allowed when determining wide ranging policy such as this one.

If there is a booster that is better geared towards the latest variant hopefully they keep the policy in place as far as I am concerned.

Like after 2 years of data they can't figure out natural immunity is viable. Dozens of other countries have already figured this out and implemented it. For whatever reason, this administration just can't do it.

We already know Omicron is a less lethal variant. We've known this for about 9 months now and they can't get around to updating a policy from last Oct? It just makes us look like we dont know what we are doing.

Making Djokovick take the current Wuhan strain vaccine today serves no purpose. I'm scared to think how our policy will evolve once the Omicron vaccine becomes available. At the end of the day, the current state of COVID doesn't justify the policies we have in place.

What is the latest data you are reading regarding nonvaxed and vaxed? I haven’t followed this much lately.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2202092

To be honest I’m not really following all that but it seems to be about transmission rates.

Was more curious about rates of people with serous infection, hospitalizations, etc. vaxed versus unvaxed.

 

[Max Power]

The law seems obsolete in light of the dominant strains being milder, and the fact that vaxed people can still spread it. We’ve had ample time to get our shots if we want them; everyone else is free to risk a more serious infection. It’s not like we still have a shortage of hospital beds, and we have more effective treatments now. The law isn’t doing much to protect anyone today imo.

I’d expect this to be reviewed and perhaps changed at some point as well. We’ll see what happens with new boosters that sound like they will target newer variants.

What’s the benefit of letting unvaxed people come in for vacation or to play tennis? Who wants to be the official who signs off on that change?

The wheels of the government move slow however especially in sweeping Issues such as this.

What's the danger of allowing non-vaccinated people into the country?

Another person who doesn’t need to be here who could potentially get sick or spread the virus around.

In the case of the story that the OP is bunched up about a non-US citizen coming here to play tennis.

This isn’t on my list of things to get concerned about.

Are you just going to ignore that vaccinated people who don't need to be here can come here and get people sick and spread the virus?

So let’s add more issues to this uneccesarly?

No, we're pointing out its a dumb policy not based in science or public health. So people trying to use $cience to justify him not being allowed come here just looks misguided.

Do you really think the US Open is safer without Djokovic?

More people would cause more issues. I’m sure it’s being evaluated but that’s the rule in place.

Public policy is slow, methodical and a blunt tool.

The tennis guy isn’t a special case any more that Pierre the Frenchman who wants to visit NY.

Am I correct to assume your stance is whatever the public policy says? You didnt seem to want to answer the question.

It's a horrendous and discriminatory policy. I'd have to start questioning the motives of people who support it.

If you cant show you are vaxed at the moment I’d say too bad, take your vacation somewhere else. Not sure if I had made my stance clear but there it is.

If they drop this down the road I wont be bothered by it either if things continue as they are.

Many of the same posters who complain about this also oddly like to keep running tallies on deaths from Covid like it’s a scorecard so I am a bit skeptical on their views on this and what point they are trying to make.

So yes, Im taking that as you are just co-signing whatever policy we run with. Even if it doesnt make sense, it's the policy.

Who is keeping running covid scorecard tallies? That was a CNN thing to do. I'm not sure what covid deaths even represent anymore. People dying from covid currently most likely have several comorbidities.

Many posters on here oddly point out deaths as some scorecard.

Regrading this policy, yeah I’ll go with what they have. As I said policies like this are like turning an oil tanker…slow to react. This isn’t really a bad thing in my view TBH.

As it relates to this I could give two ****s about the person not being able to come here to play tennis or take a vacay.

I guess when I see an outdated policy that doesn't serve public health, I don't like the policy anymore.

Perhaps it is. It is a bit easier for people on a message board to say this than a government looking through hundreds of thousands of unique cases and responsible for the health of it’s citizens.

My heart goes out to those unvaxed people who were unable to fly here to shop or play tennis.

The government could just stop denying science and acknowledge natural immunity. Or we could go the route of iimaking this more complicated while reducing public confidence in our public health policy. Kind of seems like an easy choice to me.

The fact that our government is still confused over this situation speaks volumes.

Do less people coming into the country who have no shots mean less opportunity to have issues? If It’s yes than it’s an easy blanket policy to have in place for people determine these things.

There is no recent data to support that. The vax'd and unvax'd shed the virus for similar rates and duration.

Less people of all vaccination statuses coming into this country would lead to less issues if you want to go that route. Public health policy is supposed to be for the net benefit of society. Ignoring natural immunity doesn't do that. So this just continues to be a really poor policy that makes the policy makers look foolish.

If this is accurate then I trust they are looking into this policy and determining how to unwind it.

What causes confusion in my eyes as much as a slow moving bureaucratic mechanism is a policy that changes as the wind blows. Hopefully people understand that some level of patience should be allowed when determining wide ranging policy such as this one.

If there is a booster that is better geared towards the latest variant hopefully they keep the policy in place as far as I am concerned.

Like after 2 years of data they can't figure out natural immunity is viable. Dozens of other countries have already figured this out and implemented it. For whatever reason, this administration just can't do it.

We already know Omicron is a less lethal variant. We've known this for about 9 months now and they can't get around to updating a policy from last Oct? It just makes us look like we dont know what we are doing.

Making Djokovick take the current Wuhan strain vaccine today serves no purpose. I'm scared to think how our policy will evolve once the Omicron vaccine becomes available. At the end of the day, the current state of COVID doesn't justify the policies we have in place.

What is the latest data you are reading regarding nonvaxed and vaxed? I haven’t followed this much lately.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2202092

To be honest I’m not really following all that but it seems to be about transmission rates.

Was more curious about rates of people with serous infection, hospitalizations, etc. vaxed versus unvaxed.

Numbers are getting tougher to come by. Canada and the UK used to do good jobs of putting out the raw numbers but stopped after "people were interpreting them the wrong way".

 

[Sand]

Sure! They do this with thousands of people.

they need to do it with ALL of them

if you're trying to come here illegally like Djokovic, turn them away. ALL of them

instead, they're being put up in hotels in NYC while citizens live in homeless shelters .... what a messed up Govt we have

Is your issue that unvaxed people may be getting into the country?

During the height of COVID absolutely it was - for me, at least. Distributing that disease continuously to the corners of the country was and is a terrible idea. It will never be quantified how many people died because of this decision, but it has to be a very substantial number.

 

[FairWarning]

I’m more concerned that people are more worried about a tennis player possibly having it, yet don’t see a problem with thousands of illegals cross unchecked.

The thinking is that South America and Mexico are so horrific, the USA is the only place those people can go to be safe. Them bringing in diseases that endanger American lives is for the greater good of humanity.

Ah, the greater good.

 

[The General]

Sure! They do this with thousands of people.

they need to do it with ALL of them

if you're trying to come here illegally like Djokovic, turn them away. ALL of them

instead, they're being put up in hotels in NYC while citizens live in homeless shelters .... what a messed up Govt we have

Is your issue that unvaxed people may be getting into the country?

During the height of COVID absolutely it was - for me, at least. Distributing that disease continuously to the corners of the country was and is a terrible idea. It will never be quantified how many people died because of this decision, but it has to be a very substantial number.

I agree this would be a bad policy. Less unvaxed people entering the country the better.

 

[Sand]

Sure! They do this with thousands of people.

they need to do it with ALL of them

if you're trying to come here illegally like Djokovic, turn them away. ALL of them

instead, they're being put up in hotels in NYC while citizens live in homeless shelters .... what a messed up Govt we have

Is your issue that unvaxed people may be getting into the country?

During the height of COVID absolutely it was - for me, at least. Distributing that disease continuously to the corners of the country was and is a terrible idea. It will never be quantified how many people died because of this decision, but it has to be a very substantial number.

I agree this would be a bad policy. Less unvaxed people entering the country the better.

It was bad policy and was enacted - not hypothetical. This was done under the current administration. It still is occurring, AFAIK, but certainly the COVID strain out there now isn't nearly as virulent as a bit back, so this severity of this policy error isn't quite as egregious as it was.

 

[The General]

Numbers are getting tougher to come by. Canada and the UK used to do good jobs of putting out the raw numbers but stopped after "people were interpreting them the wrong way".

It seems like being vaxed is still the best route to go

 

[The General]

Sure! They do this with thousands of people.

they need to do it with ALL of them

if you're trying to come here illegally like Djokovic, turn them away. ALL of them

instead, they're being put up in hotels in NYC while citizens live in homeless shelters .... what a messed up Govt we have

Is your issue that unvaxed people may be getting into the country?

During the height of COVID absolutely it was - for me, at least. Distributing that disease continuously to the corners of the country was and is a terrible idea. It will never be quantified how many people died because of this decision, but it has to be a very substantial number.

I agree this would be a bad policy. Less unvaxed people entering the country the better.

It was bad policy and was enacted - not hypothetical. This was done under the current administration. It still is occurring, AFAIK, but certainly the COVID strain out there now isn't nearly as virulent as a bit back, so this severity of this policy error isn't quite as egregious as it was.

So the question remains should we knowingly allow more unvaxed in? Yes or no.

 

[Max Power]

Numbers are getting tougher to come by. Canada and the UK used to do good jobs of putting out the raw numbers but stopped after "people were interpreting them the wrong way".

It seems like being vaxed is still the best route to go

That was a good link. They didnt break down anything with natural immunity, but I understand how difficult that may be.

The numbers could be more accurate if they tried harder. They are using the 2020 population estimate instead of the 2022 estimate, which would add almost 300k to the unvaccinated denominator.

They are also using total deaths/hospitalizations since Feb 1st 2021 when only 1.7% of the population was fully vaccinated, but also break it out by current population%. That would have been a sliding scale on total % fully vaccinated over the year and a half.

They also dont display the death rate for either group under 65 since they deem it statistically insignificant.

 

[Sand]

Sure! They do this with thousands of people.

they need to do it with ALL of them

if you're trying to come here illegally like Djokovic, turn them away. ALL of them

instead, they're being put up in hotels in NYC while citizens live in homeless shelters .... what a messed up Govt we have

Is your issue that unvaxed people may be getting into the country?

During the height of COVID absolutely it was - for me, at least. Distributing that disease continuously to the corners of the country was and is a terrible idea. It will never be quantified how many people died because of this decision, but it has to be a very substantial number.

I agree this would be a bad policy. Less unvaxed people entering the country the better.

It was bad policy and was enacted - not hypothetical. This was done under the current administration. It still is occurring, AFAIK, but certainly the COVID strain out there now isn't nearly as virulent as a bit back, so this severity of this policy error isn't quite as egregious as it was.

So the question remains should we knowingly allow more unvaxed in? Yes or no.

For tourist purposes? Sure. For permanent immigrants, nope.

 

[The General]

Sure! They do this with thousands of people.

they need to do it with ALL of them

if you're trying to come here illegally like Djokovic, turn them away. ALL of them

instead, they're being put up in hotels in NYC while citizens live in homeless shelters .... what a messed up Govt we have

Is your issue that unvaxed people may be getting into the country?

During the height of COVID absolutely it was - for me, at least. Distributing that disease continuously to the corners of the country was and is a terrible idea. It will never be quantified how many people died because of this decision, but it has to be a very substantial number.

I agree this would be a bad policy. Less unvaxed people entering the country the better.

It was bad policy and was enacted - not hypothetical. This was done under the current administration. It still is occurring, AFAIK, but certainly the COVID strain out there now isn't nearly as virulent as a bit back, so this severity of this policy error isn't quite as egregious as it was.

So the question remains should we knowingly allow more unvaxed in? Yes or no.

For tourist purposes? Sure. For permanent immigrants, nope.

Fair enough. This makes no sense to me.

 

[Zow]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

 

[Max Power]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

 

[Zow]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

No.

Trying to equate travel restrictions with border control is the stupid talking point.

 

[Max Power]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

No.

Trying to equate travel restrictions with border control is the stupid talking point.

ah gotcha.

 

[Zow]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

No.

Trying to equate travel restrictions with border control is the stupid talking point.

ah gotcha.

FWIW, I see a valid discussion to be had as to whether the country needs to keep certain restrictions in place for travel such as in the Djokovic situation. As such, no issue of a public/national discussion about that.

Suggesting that such restrictions shouldn't be put into place because some people enter our country unvaccinated without going through the proper channels is a really bad red herring and should not be point made in any intelligent discussion on the underlying issue.

 

[Max Power]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

No.

Trying to equate travel restrictions with border control is the stupid talking point.

ah gotcha.

FWIW, I see a valid discussion to be had as to whether the country needs to keep certain restrictions in place for travel such as in the Djokovic situation. As such, no issue of a public/national discussion about that.

Suggesting that such restrictions shouldn't be put into place because some people enter our country unvaccinated without going through the proper channels is a really bad red herring and should not be point made in any intelligent discussion on the underlying issue.

My take on that is the issue of if being unvaccinated is a safety concern for the population or it isn't. It's the inconsistency of the threat and our policies that people have problems with.

If you're unvaccinated and try to enter the country legally, you will be turned around. If you're unvaccinated and enter the country illegally, detained and released for future processing, you will not be forced to be vaccinated before being released into the US.

We know enough about how covid spreads and the initial living conditions of immigrants to know they are more likely to be in an environment where covid spreads easier. More people, smaller spaces, lower on the economic ladder. So this group in theory would be more of covid exposure threat to Americas vs unvaccinated tourists.

 

[The General]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

No.

Trying to equate travel restrictions with border control is the stupid talking point.

ah gotcha.

FWIW, I see a valid discussion to be had as to whether the country needs to keep certain restrictions in place for travel such as in the Djokovic situation. As such, no issue of a public/national discussion about that.

Suggesting that such restrictions shouldn't be put into place because some people enter our country unvaccinated without going through the proper channels is a really bad red herring and should not be point made in any intelligent discussion on the underlying issue.

My take on that is the issue of if being unvaccinated is a safety concern for the population or it isn't. It's the inconsistency of the threat and our policies that people have problems with.

If you're unvaccinated and try to enter the country legally, you will be turned around. If you're unvaccinated and enter the country illegally, detained and released for future processing, you will not be forced to be vaccinated before being released into the US.

We know enough about how covid spreads and the initial living conditions of immigrants to know they are more likely to be in an environment where covid spreads easier. More people, smaller spaces, lower on the economic ladder. So this group in theory would be more of covid exposure threat to Americas vs unvaccinated tourists.

I thought there was a policy in place to have people who were trying to get into the country vaccinated as part of the process?

Is that not right?

I thought this whole discussion was about people who sneak in and don’t get caught.

 

[Max Power]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

No.

Trying to equate travel restrictions with border control is the stupid talking point.

ah gotcha.

FWIW, I see a valid discussion to be had as to whether the country needs to keep certain restrictions in place for travel such as in the Djokovic situation. As such, no issue of a public/national discussion about that.

Suggesting that such restrictions shouldn't be put into place because some people enter our country unvaccinated without going through the proper channels is a really bad red herring and should not be point made in any intelligent discussion on the underlying issue.

My take on that is the issue of if being unvaccinated is a safety concern for the population or it isn't. It's the inconsistency of the threat and our policies that people have problems with.

If you're unvaccinated and try to enter the country legally, you will be turned around. If you're unvaccinated and enter the country illegally, detained and released for future processing, you will not be forced to be vaccinated before being released into the US.

We know enough about how covid spreads and the initial living conditions of immigrants to know they are more likely to be in an environment where covid spreads easier. More people, smaller spaces, lower on the economic ladder. So this group in theory would be more of covid exposure threat to Americas vs unvaccinated tourists.

I thought there was a policy in place to have people who were trying to get into the country vaccinated as part of the process?

Is that not right?

I thought this whole discussion was about people who sneak in and don’t get caught.

We do. When they do it legally. If someone is caught entering illegally, they aren't force vaccinated and are often released into the population while they are "processed".

People that sneak in and don't get caught is another aspect of it. Not one I'd go guns blazin on, but more along the lines of if covid is such a major threat, why wouldn't we do more to limit it coming through the border unchecked. The reality is that covid isn't that major of a threat anymore.

 

[The General]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

No.

Trying to equate travel restrictions with border control is the stupid talking point.

ah gotcha.

FWIW, I see a valid discussion to be had as to whether the country needs to keep certain restrictions in place for travel such as in the Djokovic situation. As such, no issue of a public/national discussion about that.

Suggesting that such restrictions shouldn't be put into place because some people enter our country unvaccinated without going through the proper channels is a really bad red herring and should not be point made in any intelligent discussion on the underlying issue.

My take on that is the issue of if being unvaccinated is a safety concern for the population or it isn't. It's the inconsistency of the threat and our policies that people have problems with.

If you're unvaccinated and try to enter the country legally, you will be turned around. If you're unvaccinated and enter the country illegally, detained and released for future processing, you will not be forced to be vaccinated before being released into the US.

We know enough about how covid spreads and the initial living conditions of immigrants to know they are more likely to be in an environment where covid spreads easier. More people, smaller spaces, lower on the economic ladder. So this group in theory would be more of covid exposure threat to Americas vs unvaccinated tourists.

I thought there was a policy in place to have people who were trying to get into the country vaccinated as part of the process?

Is that not right?

I thought this whole discussion was about people who sneak in and don’t get caught.

We do. When they do it legally. If someone is caught entering illegally, they aren't force vaccinated and are often released into the population while they are "processed".

People that sneak in and don't get caught is another aspect of it. Not one I'd go guns blazin on, but more along the lines of if covid is such a major threat, why wouldn't we do more to limit it coming through the border unchecked. The reality is that covid isn't that major of a threat anymore.

Policy

This wasn’t quite how I understood it.

There are two issues I see here that are being conflated. Is it still the best practice to have people vaxed and how do we try to enforce this for this issue of people entering our country.

Personally I think vaccination is the most effective tool we have. Variants are changing this somewhat.

How do we work to make sure people are vaccinated but also allow some level of personal choice. That is much more difficult across a million different scenarios.

People coming here to say play tennis or go shopping traveling though Customs this is simple. Sorry you can’t come in.

Immigrants coming here, people seeking asylum, etc there is a lot more to take into account. I do think that vaccination for all diseases should be part of that but I can see in application that could get messy. On the whole though I believe that should be a part of the process.

 

[Max Power]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

No.

Trying to equate travel restrictions with border control is the stupid talking point.

ah gotcha.

FWIW, I see a valid discussion to be had as to whether the country needs to keep certain restrictions in place for travel such as in the Djokovic situation. As such, no issue of a public/national discussion about that.

Suggesting that such restrictions shouldn't be put into place because some people enter our country unvaccinated without going through the proper channels is a really bad red herring and should not be point made in any intelligent discussion on the underlying issue.

My take on that is the issue of if being unvaccinated is a safety concern for the population or it isn't. It's the inconsistency of the threat and our policies that people have problems with.

If you're unvaccinated and try to enter the country legally, you will be turned around. If you're unvaccinated and enter the country illegally, detained and released for future processing, you will not be forced to be vaccinated before being released into the US.

We know enough about how covid spreads and the initial living conditions of immigrants to know they are more likely to be in an environment where covid spreads easier. More people, smaller spaces, lower on the economic ladder. So this group in theory would be more of covid exposure threat to Americas vs unvaccinated tourists.

I thought there was a policy in place to have people who were trying to get into the country vaccinated as part of the process?

Is that not right?

I thought this whole discussion was about people who sneak in and don’t get caught.

We do. When they do it legally. If someone is caught entering illegally, they aren't force vaccinated and are often released into the population while they are "processed".

People that sneak in and don't get caught is another aspect of it. Not one I'd go guns blazin on, but more along the lines of if covid is such a major threat, why wouldn't we do more to limit it coming through the border unchecked. The reality is that covid isn't that major of a threat anymore.

Policy

This wasn’t quite how I understood it.

There are two issues I see here that are being conflated. Is it still the best practice to have people vaxed and how do we try to enforce this for this issue of people entering our country.

Personally I think vaccination is the most effective tool we have. Variants are changing this somewhat.

How do we work to make sure people are vaccinated but also allow some level of personal choice. That is much more difficult across a million different scenarios.

People coming here to say play tennis or go shopping traveling though Customs this is simple. Sorry you can’t come in.

Immigrants coming here, people seeking asylum, etc there is a lot more to take into account. I do think that vaccination for all diseases should be part of that but I can see in application that could get messy. On the whole though I believe that should be a part of the process.

I can't see the policy on NYT site. No access.

From my understanding, if an immigrant enters the country legally they will need to be vaccinated. If they come illegally and are detained, they are then released with a court date to request asylum. Those people are offered the vaccine, but since they are not American citizens and can not be forced to take the vaccine. If they choose not to, they are still released into the US pending their court date.

I'm not against enforcing the vaccine at the border for entry, but that isn't the humanitarian thing to do. If someone is coming here seeking asylum, I don't think they should be forced into a medical decision they don't want.

We can give them personal choice through recognizing natural immunity. Its estimated that 75% of people have had covid at some point. It could be higher.

How the variants and this variant booster play out may make me reevaluate my stance on the vaccine, but forcing someone to take an outdated vaccine for today's threat, just doesn't make a lot to me.

I'll concede that asylum is more important than tourism for reasons behind coming here, but what I don't like is when viewed through a public health lens, the asylum seekers are much more likely to end up in higher risk situations and spread covid more than a tourist who is going to stay in a hotel.

 

[The General]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

No.

Trying to equate travel restrictions with border control is the stupid talking point.

ah gotcha.

FWIW, I see a valid discussion to be had as to whether the country needs to keep certain restrictions in place for travel such as in the Djokovic situation. As such, no issue of a public/national discussion about that.

Suggesting that such restrictions shouldn't be put into place because some people enter our country unvaccinated without going through the proper channels is a really bad red herring and should not be point made in any intelligent discussion on the underlying issue.

My take on that is the issue of if being unvaccinated is a safety concern for the population or it isn't. It's the inconsistency of the threat and our policies that people have problems with.

If you're unvaccinated and try to enter the country legally, you will be turned around. If you're unvaccinated and enter the country illegally, detained and released for future processing, you will not be forced to be vaccinated before being released into the US.

We know enough about how covid spreads and the initial living conditions of immigrants to know they are more likely to be in an environment where covid spreads easier. More people, smaller spaces, lower on the economic ladder. So this group in theory would be more of covid exposure threat to Americas vs unvaccinated tourists.

I thought there was a policy in place to have people who were trying to get into the country vaccinated as part of the process?

Is that not right?

I thought this whole discussion was about people who sneak in and don’t get caught.

We do. When they do it legally. If someone is caught entering illegally, they aren't force vaccinated and are often released into the population while they are "processed".

People that sneak in and don't get caught is another aspect of it. Not one I'd go guns blazin on, but more along the lines of if covid is such a major threat, why wouldn't we do more to limit it coming through the border unchecked. The reality is that covid isn't that major of a threat anymore.

Policy

This wasn’t quite how I understood it.

There are two issues I see here that are being conflated. Is it still the best practice to have people vaxed and how do we try to enforce this for this issue of people entering our country.

Personally I think vaccination is the most effective tool we have. Variants are changing this somewhat.

How do we work to make sure people are vaccinated but also allow some level of personal choice. That is much more difficult across a million different scenarios.

People coming here to say play tennis or go shopping traveling though Customs this is simple. Sorry you can’t come in.

Immigrants coming here, people seeking asylum, etc there is a lot more to take into account. I do think that vaccination for all diseases should be part of that but I can see in application that could get messy. On the whole though I believe that should be a part of the process.

I can't see the policy on NYT site. No access.

From my understanding, if an immigrant enters the country legally they will need to be vaccinated. If they come illegally and are detained, they are then released with a court date to request asylum. Those people are offered the vaccine, but since they are not American citizens and can not be forced to take the vaccine. If they choose not to, they are still released into the US pending their court date.

I'm not against enforcing the vaccine at the border for entry, but that isn't the humanitarian thing to do. If someone is coming here seeking asylum, I don't think they should be forced into a medical decision they don't want.

We can give them personal choice through recognizing natural immunity. Its estimated that 75% of people have had covid at some point. It could be higher.

How the variants and this variant booster play out may make me reevaluate my stance on the vaccine, but forcing someone to take an outdated vaccine for today's threat, just doesn't make a lot to me.

I'll concede that asylum is more important than tourism for reasons behind coming here, but what I don't like is when viewed through a public health lens, the asylum seekers are much more likely to end up in higher risk situations and spread covid more than a tourist who is going to stay in a hotel.

I will try and find another source later but the gist is as far as I can tell they are being vaxed. If they deny the shots there are some other factors that come into play.

I disagree with you on this but I appreciate the back and forth.

 

[Max Power]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

No.

Trying to equate travel restrictions with border control is the stupid talking point.

ah gotcha.

FWIW, I see a valid discussion to be had as to whether the country needs to keep certain restrictions in place for travel such as in the Djokovic situation. As such, no issue of a public/national discussion about that.

Suggesting that such restrictions shouldn't be put into place because some people enter our country unvaccinated without going through the proper channels is a really bad red herring and should not be point made in any intelligent discussion on the underlying issue.

My take on that is the issue of if being unvaccinated is a safety concern for the population or it isn't. It's the inconsistency of the threat and our policies that people have problems with.

If you're unvaccinated and try to enter the country legally, you will be turned around. If you're unvaccinated and enter the country illegally, detained and released for future processing, you will not be forced to be vaccinated before being released into the US.

We know enough about how covid spreads and the initial living conditions of immigrants to know they are more likely to be in an environment where covid spreads easier. More people, smaller spaces, lower on the economic ladder. So this group in theory would be more of covid exposure threat to Americas vs unvaccinated tourists.

I thought there was a policy in place to have people who were trying to get into the country vaccinated as part of the process?

Is that not right?

I thought this whole discussion was about people who sneak in and don’t get caught.

We do. When they do it legally. If someone is caught entering illegally, they aren't force vaccinated and are often released into the population while they are "processed".

People that sneak in and don't get caught is another aspect of it. Not one I'd go guns blazin on, but more along the lines of if covid is such a major threat, why wouldn't we do more to limit it coming through the border unchecked. The reality is that covid isn't that major of a threat anymore.

Policy

This wasn’t quite how I understood it.

There are two issues I see here that are being conflated. Is it still the best practice to have people vaxed and how do we try to enforce this for this issue of people entering our country.

Personally I think vaccination is the most effective tool we have. Variants are changing this somewhat.

How do we work to make sure people are vaccinated but also allow some level of personal choice. That is much more difficult across a million different scenarios.

People coming here to say play tennis or go shopping traveling though Customs this is simple. Sorry you can’t come in.

Immigrants coming here, people seeking asylum, etc there is a lot more to take into account. I do think that vaccination for all diseases should be part of that but I can see in application that could get messy. On the whole though I believe that should be a part of the process.

I can't see the policy on NYT site. No access.

From my understanding, if an immigrant enters the country legally they will need to be vaccinated. If they come illegally and are detained, they are then released with a court date to request asylum. Those people are offered the vaccine, but since they are not American citizens and can not be forced to take the vaccine. If they choose not to, they are still released into the US pending their court date.

I'm not against enforcing the vaccine at the border for entry, but that isn't the humanitarian thing to do. If someone is coming here seeking asylum, I don't think they should be forced into a medical decision they don't want.

We can give them personal choice through recognizing natural immunity. Its estimated that 75% of people have had covid at some point. It could be higher.

How the variants and this variant booster play out may make me reevaluate my stance on the vaccine, but forcing someone to take an outdated vaccine for today's threat, just doesn't make a lot to me.

I'll concede that asylum is more important than tourism for reasons behind coming here, but what I don't like is when viewed through a public health lens, the asylum seekers are much more likely to end up in higher risk situations and spread covid more than a tourist who is going to stay in a hotel.

I will try and find another source later but the gist is as far as I can tell they are being vaxed. If they deny the shots there are some other factors that come into play.

I disagree with you on this but I appreciate the back and forth.

The vaccination mandate for the border is for legal immigrants. We have no policy to vaccinate illegal immigrants.

Think of it another way, do you think Biden is forcing asylum seekers back to the country they are fleeing because they wont take the covid vaccine?

 

[Zow]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

No.

Trying to equate travel restrictions with border control is the stupid talking point.

ah gotcha.

FWIW, I see a valid discussion to be had as to whether the country needs to keep certain restrictions in place for travel such as in the Djokovic situation. As such, no issue of a public/national discussion about that.

Suggesting that such restrictions shouldn't be put into place because some people enter our country unvaccinated without going through the proper channels is a really bad red herring and should not be point made in any intelligent discussion on the underlying issue.

My take on that is the issue of if being unvaccinated is a safety concern for the population or it isn't. It's the inconsistency of the threat and our policies that people have problems with.

If you're unvaccinated and try to enter the country legally, you will be turned around. If you're unvaccinated and enter the country illegally, detained and released for future processing, you will not be forced to be vaccinated before being released into the US.

We know enough about how covid spreads and the initial living conditions of immigrants to know they are more likely to be in an environment where covid spreads easier. More people, smaller spaces, lower on the economic ladder. So this group in theory would be more of covid exposure threat to Americas vs unvaccinated tourists.

I thought there was a policy in place to have people who were trying to get into the country vaccinated as part of the process?

Is that not right?

I thought this whole discussion was about people who sneak in and don’t get caught.

We do. When they do it legally. If someone is caught entering illegally, they aren't force vaccinated and are often released into the population while they are "processed".

People that sneak in and don't get caught is another aspect of it. Not one I'd go guns blazin on, but more along the lines of if covid is such a major threat, why wouldn't we do more to limit it coming through the border unchecked. The reality is that covid isn't that major of a threat anymore.

Policy

This wasn’t quite how I understood it.

There are two issues I see here that are being conflated. Is it still the best practice to have people vaxed and how do we try to enforce this for this issue of people entering our country.

Personally I think vaccination is the most effective tool we have. Variants are changing this somewhat.

How do we work to make sure people are vaccinated but also allow some level of personal choice. That is much more difficult across a million different scenarios.

People coming here to say play tennis or go shopping traveling though Customs this is simple. Sorry you can’t come in.

Immigrants coming here, people seeking asylum, etc there is a lot more to take into account. I do think that vaccination for all diseases should be part of that but I can see in application that could get messy. On the whole though I believe that should be a part of the process.

I can't see the policy on NYT site. No access.

From my understanding, if an immigrant enters the country legally they will need to be vaccinated. If they come illegally and are detained, they are then released with a court date to request asylum. Those people are offered the vaccine, but since they are not American citizens and can not be forced to take the vaccine. If they choose not to, they are still released into the US pending their court date.

I'm not against enforcing the vaccine at the border for entry, but that isn't the humanitarian thing to do. If someone is coming here seeking asylum, I don't think they should be forced into a medical decision they don't want.

We can give them personal choice through recognizing natural immunity. Its estimated that 75% of people have had covid at some point. It could be higher.

How the variants and this variant booster play out may make me reevaluate my stance on the vaccine, but forcing someone to take an outdated vaccine for today's threat, just doesn't make a lot to me.

I'll concede that asylum is more important than tourism for reasons behind coming here, but what I don't like is when viewed through a public health lens, the asylum seekers are much more likely to end up in higher risk situations and spread covid more than a tourist who is going to stay in a hotel.

I will try and find another source later but the gist is as far as I can tell they are being vaxed. If they deny the shots there are some other factors that come into play.

I disagree with you on this but I appreciate the back and forth.

The vaccination mandate for the border is for legal immigrants. We have no policy to vaccinate illegal immigrants.

Think of it another way, do you think Biden is forcing asylum seekers back to the country they are fleeing because they wont take the covid vaccine?

No. Nor should he. Nor should asylum seekers be compared to people looking to come here to play a game.

 

[The General]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

No.

Trying to equate travel restrictions with border control is the stupid talking point.

ah gotcha.

FWIW, I see a valid discussion to be had as to whether the country needs to keep certain restrictions in place for travel such as in the Djokovic situation. As such, no issue of a public/national discussion about that.

Suggesting that such restrictions shouldn't be put into place because some people enter our country unvaccinated without going through the proper channels is a really bad red herring and should not be point made in any intelligent discussion on the underlying issue.

My take on that is the issue of if being unvaccinated is a safety concern for the population or it isn't. It's the inconsistency of the threat and our policies that people have problems with.

If you're unvaccinated and try to enter the country legally, you will be turned around. If you're unvaccinated and enter the country illegally, detained and released for future processing, you will not be forced to be vaccinated before being released into the US.

We know enough about how covid spreads and the initial living conditions of immigrants to know they are more likely to be in an environment where covid spreads easier. More people, smaller spaces, lower on the economic ladder. So this group in theory would be more of covid exposure threat to Americas vs unvaccinated tourists.

I thought there was a policy in place to have people who were trying to get into the country vaccinated as part of the process?

Is that not right?

I thought this whole discussion was about people who sneak in and don’t get caught.

We do. When they do it legally. If someone is caught entering illegally, they aren't force vaccinated and are often released into the population while they are "processed".

People that sneak in and don't get caught is another aspect of it. Not one I'd go guns blazin on, but more along the lines of if covid is such a major threat, why wouldn't we do more to limit it coming through the border unchecked. The reality is that covid isn't that major of a threat anymore.

Policy

This wasn’t quite how I understood it.

There are two issues I see here that are being conflated. Is it still the best practice to have people vaxed and how do we try to enforce this for this issue of people entering our country.

Personally I think vaccination is the most effective tool we have. Variants are changing this somewhat.

How do we work to make sure people are vaccinated but also allow some level of personal choice. That is much more difficult across a million different scenarios.

People coming here to say play tennis or go shopping traveling though Customs this is simple. Sorry you can’t come in.

Immigrants coming here, people seeking asylum, etc there is a lot more to take into account. I do think that vaccination for all diseases should be part of that but I can see in application that could get messy. On the whole though I believe that should be a part of the process.

I can't see the policy on NYT site. No access.

From my understanding, if an immigrant enters the country legally they will need to be vaccinated. If they come illegally and are detained, they are then released with a court date to request asylum. Those people are offered the vaccine, but since they are not American citizens and can not be forced to take the vaccine. If they choose not to, they are still released into the US pending their court date.

I'm not against enforcing the vaccine at the border for entry, but that isn't the humanitarian thing to do. If someone is coming here seeking asylum, I don't think they should be forced into a medical decision they don't want.

We can give them personal choice through recognizing natural immunity. Its estimated that 75% of people have had covid at some point. It could be higher.

How the variants and this variant booster play out may make me reevaluate my stance on the vaccine, but forcing someone to take an outdated vaccine for today's threat, just doesn't make a lot to me.

I'll concede that asylum is more important than tourism for reasons behind coming here, but what I don't like is when viewed through a public health lens, the asylum seekers are much more likely to end up in higher risk situations and spread covid more than a tourist who is going to stay in a hotel.

I will try and find another source later but the gist is as far as I can tell they are being vaxed. If they deny the shots there are some other factors that come into play.

I disagree with you on this but I appreciate the back and forth.

The vaccination mandate for the border is for legal immigrants. We have no policy to vaccinate illegal immigrants.

Think of it another way, do you think Biden is forcing asylum seekers back to the country they are fleeing because they wont take the covid vaccine?

What is this policy talking about: Link

"In order to further safeguard public health and ensure the safety of border communities, the workforce, and migrants, DHS is now expanding these efforts and, beginning today, requiring that noncitizens taken into CBP custody for further immigration processing at the Southwest land border be given age-appropriate COVID-19 vaccines,"

 

[Max Power]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

No.

Trying to equate travel restrictions with border control is the stupid talking point.

ah gotcha.

FWIW, I see a valid discussion to be had as to whether the country needs to keep certain restrictions in place for travel such as in the Djokovic situation. As such, no issue of a public/national discussion about that.

Suggesting that such restrictions shouldn't be put into place because some people enter our country unvaccinated without going through the proper channels is a really bad red herring and should not be point made in any intelligent discussion on the underlying issue.

My take on that is the issue of if being unvaccinated is a safety concern for the population or it isn't. It's the inconsistency of the threat and our policies that people have problems with.

If you're unvaccinated and try to enter the country legally, you will be turned around. If you're unvaccinated and enter the country illegally, detained and released for future processing, you will not be forced to be vaccinated before being released into the US.

We know enough about how covid spreads and the initial living conditions of immigrants to know they are more likely to be in an environment where covid spreads easier. More people, smaller spaces, lower on the economic ladder. So this group in theory would be more of covid exposure threat to Americas vs unvaccinated tourists.

I thought there was a policy in place to have people who were trying to get into the country vaccinated as part of the process?

Is that not right?

I thought this whole discussion was about people who sneak in and don’t get caught.

We do. When they do it legally. If someone is caught entering illegally, they aren't force vaccinated and are often released into the population while they are "processed".

People that sneak in and don't get caught is another aspect of it. Not one I'd go guns blazin on, but more along the lines of if covid is such a major threat, why wouldn't we do more to limit it coming through the border unchecked. The reality is that covid isn't that major of a threat anymore.

Policy

This wasn’t quite how I understood it.

There are two issues I see here that are being conflated. Is it still the best practice to have people vaxed and how do we try to enforce this for this issue of people entering our country.

Personally I think vaccination is the most effective tool we have. Variants are changing this somewhat.

How do we work to make sure people are vaccinated but also allow some level of personal choice. That is much more difficult across a million different scenarios.

People coming here to say play tennis or go shopping traveling though Customs this is simple. Sorry you can’t come in.

Immigrants coming here, people seeking asylum, etc there is a lot more to take into account. I do think that vaccination for all diseases should be part of that but I can see in application that could get messy. On the whole though I believe that should be a part of the process.

I can't see the policy on NYT site. No access.

From my understanding, if an immigrant enters the country legally they will need to be vaccinated. If they come illegally and are detained, they are then released with a court date to request asylum. Those people are offered the vaccine, but since they are not American citizens and can not be forced to take the vaccine. If they choose not to, they are still released into the US pending their court date.

I'm not against enforcing the vaccine at the border for entry, but that isn't the humanitarian thing to do. If someone is coming here seeking asylum, I don't think they should be forced into a medical decision they don't want.

We can give them personal choice through recognizing natural immunity. Its estimated that 75% of people have had covid at some point. It could be higher.

How the variants and this variant booster play out may make me reevaluate my stance on the vaccine, but forcing someone to take an outdated vaccine for today's threat, just doesn't make a lot to me.

I'll concede that asylum is more important than tourism for reasons behind coming here, but what I don't like is when viewed through a public health lens, the asylum seekers are much more likely to end up in higher risk situations and spread covid more than a tourist who is going to stay in a hotel.

I will try and find another source later but the gist is as far as I can tell they are being vaxed. If they deny the shots there are some other factors that come into play.

I disagree with you on this but I appreciate the back and forth.

The vaccination mandate for the border is for legal immigrants. We have no policy to vaccinate illegal immigrants.

Think of it another way, do you think Biden is forcing asylum seekers back to the country they are fleeing because they wont take the covid vaccine?

What is this policy talking about: Link

"In order to further safeguard public health and ensure the safety of border communities, the workforce, and migrants, DHS is now expanding these efforts and, beginning today, requiring that noncitizens taken into CBP custody for further immigration processing at the Southwest land border be given age-appropriate COVID-19 vaccines,"

That article says "offering" a lot. That one quote makes it sound closer to mandatory, but I still think it's only offered. They arent kicking out immigrants who refuse it.

There was a BP representative a little while back saying only 40% of immigrants are taking them up on the vaccine. I'll have to see if I can find it.

 

[The General]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

No.

Trying to equate travel restrictions with border control is the stupid talking point.

ah gotcha.

FWIW, I see a valid discussion to be had as to whether the country needs to keep certain restrictions in place for travel such as in the Djokovic situation. As such, no issue of a public/national discussion about that.

Suggesting that such restrictions shouldn't be put into place because some people enter our country unvaccinated without going through the proper channels is a really bad red herring and should not be point made in any intelligent discussion on the underlying issue.

My take on that is the issue of if being unvaccinated is a safety concern for the population or it isn't. It's the inconsistency of the threat and our policies that people have problems with.

If you're unvaccinated and try to enter the country legally, you will be turned around. If you're unvaccinated and enter the country illegally, detained and released for future processing, you will not be forced to be vaccinated before being released into the US.

We know enough about how covid spreads and the initial living conditions of immigrants to know they are more likely to be in an environment where covid spreads easier. More people, smaller spaces, lower on the economic ladder. So this group in theory would be more of covid exposure threat to Americas vs unvaccinated tourists.

I thought there was a policy in place to have people who were trying to get into the country vaccinated as part of the process?

Is that not right?

I thought this whole discussion was about people who sneak in and don’t get caught.

We do. When they do it legally. If someone is caught entering illegally, they aren't force vaccinated and are often released into the population while they are "processed".

People that sneak in and don't get caught is another aspect of it. Not one I'd go guns blazin on, but more along the lines of if covid is such a major threat, why wouldn't we do more to limit it coming through the border unchecked. The reality is that covid isn't that major of a threat anymore.

Policy

This wasn’t quite how I understood it.

There are two issues I see here that are being conflated. Is it still the best practice to have people vaxed and how do we try to enforce this for this issue of people entering our country.

Personally I think vaccination is the most effective tool we have. Variants are changing this somewhat.

How do we work to make sure people are vaccinated but also allow some level of personal choice. That is much more difficult across a million different scenarios.

People coming here to say play tennis or go shopping traveling though Customs this is simple. Sorry you can’t come in.

Immigrants coming here, people seeking asylum, etc there is a lot more to take into account. I do think that vaccination for all diseases should be part of that but I can see in application that could get messy. On the whole though I believe that should be a part of the process.

I can't see the policy on NYT site. No access.

From my understanding, if an immigrant enters the country legally they will need to be vaccinated. If they come illegally and are detained, they are then released with a court date to request asylum. Those people are offered the vaccine, but since they are not American citizens and can not be forced to take the vaccine. If they choose not to, they are still released into the US pending their court date.

I'm not against enforcing the vaccine at the border for entry, but that isn't the humanitarian thing to do. If someone is coming here seeking asylum, I don't think they should be forced into a medical decision they don't want.

We can give them personal choice through recognizing natural immunity. Its estimated that 75% of people have had covid at some point. It could be higher.

How the variants and this variant booster play out may make me reevaluate my stance on the vaccine, but forcing someone to take an outdated vaccine for today's threat, just doesn't make a lot to me.

I'll concede that asylum is more important than tourism for reasons behind coming here, but what I don't like is when viewed through a public health lens, the asylum seekers are much more likely to end up in higher risk situations and spread covid more than a tourist who is going to stay in a hotel.

I will try and find another source later but the gist is as far as I can tell they are being vaxed. If they deny the shots there are some other factors that come into play.

I disagree with you on this but I appreciate the back and forth.

The vaccination mandate for the border is for legal immigrants. We have no policy to vaccinate illegal immigrants.

Think of it another way, do you think Biden is forcing asylum seekers back to the country they are fleeing because they wont take the covid vaccine?

What is this policy talking about: Link

"In order to further safeguard public health and ensure the safety of border communities, the workforce, and migrants, DHS is now expanding these efforts and, beginning today, requiring that noncitizens taken into CBP custody for further immigration processing at the Southwest land border be given age-appropriate COVID-19 vaccines,"

That article says "offering" a lot. That one quote makes it sound closer to mandatory, but I still think it's only offered. They arent kicking out immigrants who refuse it.

There was a BP representative a little while back saying only 40% of immigrants are taking them up on the vaccine. I'll have to see if I can find it.

The other article I linked to NY Times explained it as you take it or you will get removed essentially. At least that’s how I read it.

There were other factors at play based on how you were classified but the policy seemed clearly geared to what we have been talking about - you come here and are caught you need to get vaxed.

This article pointed out an interesting complexity. They were worried that this could encourage more people to try and come here. Also there would have been an issue when shots were harder to get if they were giving them to non-citizens.

 

[Max Power]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

No.

Trying to equate travel restrictions with border control is the stupid talking point.

ah gotcha.

FWIW, I see a valid discussion to be had as to whether the country needs to keep certain restrictions in place for travel such as in the Djokovic situation. As such, no issue of a public/national discussion about that.

Suggesting that such restrictions shouldn't be put into place because some people enter our country unvaccinated without going through the proper channels is a really bad red herring and should not be point made in any intelligent discussion on the underlying issue.

My take on that is the issue of if being unvaccinated is a safety concern for the population or it isn't. It's the inconsistency of the threat and our policies that people have problems with.

If you're unvaccinated and try to enter the country legally, you will be turned around. If you're unvaccinated and enter the country illegally, detained and released for future processing, you will not be forced to be vaccinated before being released into the US.

We know enough about how covid spreads and the initial living conditions of immigrants to know they are more likely to be in an environment where covid spreads easier. More people, smaller spaces, lower on the economic ladder. So this group in theory would be more of covid exposure threat to Americas vs unvaccinated tourists.

I thought there was a policy in place to have people who were trying to get into the country vaccinated as part of the process?

Is that not right?

I thought this whole discussion was about people who sneak in and don’t get caught.

We do. When they do it legally. If someone is caught entering illegally, they aren't force vaccinated and are often released into the population while they are "processed".

People that sneak in and don't get caught is another aspect of it. Not one I'd go guns blazin on, but more along the lines of if covid is such a major threat, why wouldn't we do more to limit it coming through the border unchecked. The reality is that covid isn't that major of a threat anymore.

Policy

This wasn’t quite how I understood it.

There are two issues I see here that are being conflated. Is it still the best practice to have people vaxed and how do we try to enforce this for this issue of people entering our country.

Personally I think vaccination is the most effective tool we have. Variants are changing this somewhat.

How do we work to make sure people are vaccinated but also allow some level of personal choice. That is much more difficult across a million different scenarios.

People coming here to say play tennis or go shopping traveling though Customs this is simple. Sorry you can’t come in.

Immigrants coming here, people seeking asylum, etc there is a lot more to take into account. I do think that vaccination for all diseases should be part of that but I can see in application that could get messy. On the whole though I believe that should be a part of the process.

I can't see the policy on NYT site. No access.

From my understanding, if an immigrant enters the country legally they will need to be vaccinated. If they come illegally and are detained, they are then released with a court date to request asylum. Those people are offered the vaccine, but since they are not American citizens and can not be forced to take the vaccine. If they choose not to, they are still released into the US pending their court date.

I'm not against enforcing the vaccine at the border for entry, but that isn't the humanitarian thing to do. If someone is coming here seeking asylum, I don't think they should be forced into a medical decision they don't want.

We can give them personal choice through recognizing natural immunity. Its estimated that 75% of people have had covid at some point. It could be higher.

How the variants and this variant booster play out may make me reevaluate my stance on the vaccine, but forcing someone to take an outdated vaccine for today's threat, just doesn't make a lot to me.

I'll concede that asylum is more important than tourism for reasons behind coming here, but what I don't like is when viewed through a public health lens, the asylum seekers are much more likely to end up in higher risk situations and spread covid more than a tourist who is going to stay in a hotel.

I will try and find another source later but the gist is as far as I can tell they are being vaxed. If they deny the shots there are some other factors that come into play.

I disagree with you on this but I appreciate the back and forth.

The vaccination mandate for the border is for legal immigrants. We have no policy to vaccinate illegal immigrants.

Think of it another way, do you think Biden is forcing asylum seekers back to the country they are fleeing because they wont take the covid vaccine?

What is this policy talking about: Link

"In order to further safeguard public health and ensure the safety of border communities, the workforce, and migrants, DHS is now expanding these efforts and, beginning today, requiring that noncitizens taken into CBP custody for further immigration processing at the Southwest land border be given age-appropriate COVID-19 vaccines,"

That article says "offering" a lot. That one quote makes it sound closer to mandatory, but I still think it's only offered. They arent kicking out immigrants who refuse it.

There was a BP representative a little while back saying only 40% of immigrants are taking them up on the vaccine. I'll have to see if I can find it.

The other article I linked to NY Times explained it as you take it or you will get removed essentially. At least that’s how I read it.

There were other factors at play based on how you were classified but the policy seemed clearly geared to what we have been talking about - you come here and are caught you need to get vaxed.

This article pointed out an interesting complexity. They were worried that this could encourage more people to try and come here. Also there would have been an issue when shots were harder to get if they were giving them to non-citizens.

Tbh, if that's the case I almost think it's worse if the US is turning away immigrants if they refuse the covid vaccine.

I tried to dig up the other article I was referring to earlier, but had no luck. Only an outdated NY Post story about 30% of immigrants refusing the vaccine in 2021.

It may have been on a podcast but the takeaway was that we arent mandating the covid vaccine on illegals while they wait for their day in court. I couldn't find an article to backup that claim, but it makes sense to me.

 

[The General]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

No.

Trying to equate travel restrictions with border control is the stupid talking point.

ah gotcha.

FWIW, I see a valid discussion to be had as to whether the country needs to keep certain restrictions in place for travel such as in the Djokovic situation. As such, no issue of a public/national discussion about that.

Suggesting that such restrictions shouldn't be put into place because some people enter our country unvaccinated without going through the proper channels is a really bad red herring and should not be point made in any intelligent discussion on the underlying issue.

My take on that is the issue of if being unvaccinated is a safety concern for the population or it isn't. It's the inconsistency of the threat and our policies that people have problems with.

If you're unvaccinated and try to enter the country legally, you will be turned around. If you're unvaccinated and enter the country illegally, detained and released for future processing, you will not be forced to be vaccinated before being released into the US.

We know enough about how covid spreads and the initial living conditions of immigrants to know they are more likely to be in an environment where covid spreads easier. More people, smaller spaces, lower on the economic ladder. So this group in theory would be more of covid exposure threat to Americas vs unvaccinated tourists.

I thought there was a policy in place to have people who were trying to get into the country vaccinated as part of the process?

Is that not right?

I thought this whole discussion was about people who sneak in and don’t get caught.

We do. When they do it legally. If someone is caught entering illegally, they aren't force vaccinated and are often released into the population while they are "processed".

People that sneak in and don't get caught is another aspect of it. Not one I'd go guns blazin on, but more along the lines of if covid is such a major threat, why wouldn't we do more to limit it coming through the border unchecked. The reality is that covid isn't that major of a threat anymore.

Policy

This wasn’t quite how I understood it.

There are two issues I see here that are being conflated. Is it still the best practice to have people vaxed and how do we try to enforce this for this issue of people entering our country.

Personally I think vaccination is the most effective tool we have. Variants are changing this somewhat.

How do we work to make sure people are vaccinated but also allow some level of personal choice. That is much more difficult across a million different scenarios.

People coming here to say play tennis or go shopping traveling though Customs this is simple. Sorry you can’t come in.

Immigrants coming here, people seeking asylum, etc there is a lot more to take into account. I do think that vaccination for all diseases should be part of that but I can see in application that could get messy. On the whole though I believe that should be a part of the process.

I can't see the policy on NYT site. No access.

From my understanding, if an immigrant enters the country legally they will need to be vaccinated. If they come illegally and are detained, they are then released with a court date to request asylum. Those people are offered the vaccine, but since they are not American citizens and can not be forced to take the vaccine. If they choose not to, they are still released into the US pending their court date.

I'm not against enforcing the vaccine at the border for entry, but that isn't the humanitarian thing to do. If someone is coming here seeking asylum, I don't think they should be forced into a medical decision they don't want.

We can give them personal choice through recognizing natural immunity. Its estimated that 75% of people have had covid at some point. It could be higher.

How the variants and this variant booster play out may make me reevaluate my stance on the vaccine, but forcing someone to take an outdated vaccine for today's threat, just doesn't make a lot to me.

I'll concede that asylum is more important than tourism for reasons behind coming here, but what I don't like is when viewed through a public health lens, the asylum seekers are much more likely to end up in higher risk situations and spread covid more than a tourist who is going to stay in a hotel.

I will try and find another source later but the gist is as far as I can tell they are being vaxed. If they deny the shots there are some other factors that come into play.

I disagree with you on this but I appreciate the back and forth.

The vaccination mandate for the border is for legal immigrants. We have no policy to vaccinate illegal immigrants.

Think of it another way, do you think Biden is forcing asylum seekers back to the country they are fleeing because they wont take the covid vaccine?

What is this policy talking about: Link

"In order to further safeguard public health and ensure the safety of border communities, the workforce, and migrants, DHS is now expanding these efforts and, beginning today, requiring that noncitizens taken into CBP custody for further immigration processing at the Southwest land border be given age-appropriate COVID-19 vaccines,"

That article says "offering" a lot. That one quote makes it sound closer to mandatory, but I still think it's only offered. They arent kicking out immigrants who refuse it.

There was a BP representative a little while back saying only 40% of immigrants are taking them up on the vaccine. I'll have to see if I can find it.

The other article I linked to NY Times explained it as you take it or you will get removed essentially. At least that’s how I read it.

There were other factors at play based on how you were classified but the policy seemed clearly geared to what we have been talking about - you come here and are caught you need to get vaxed.

This article pointed out an interesting complexity. They were worried that this could encourage more people to try and come here. Also there would have been an issue when shots were harder to get if they were giving them to non-citizens.

Tbh, if that's the case I almost think it's worse if the US is turning away immigrants if they refuse the covid vaccine.

I tried to dig up the other article I was referring to earlier, but had no luck. Only an outdated NY Post story about 30% of immigrants refusing the vaccine in 2021.

It may have been on a podcast but the takeaway was that we arent mandating the covid vaccine on illegals while they wait for their day in court. I couldn't find an article to backup that claim, but it makes sense to me.

Where I am at is…we shouldn‘t have people coming in if they are unvaxed. This could be revisited as we move forward.

 

[Max Power]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

No.

Trying to equate travel restrictions with border control is the stupid talking point.

ah gotcha.

FWIW, I see a valid discussion to be had as to whether the country needs to keep certain restrictions in place for travel such as in the Djokovic situation. As such, no issue of a public/national discussion about that.

Suggesting that such restrictions shouldn't be put into place because some people enter our country unvaccinated without going through the proper channels is a really bad red herring and should not be point made in any intelligent discussion on the underlying issue.

My take on that is the issue of if being unvaccinated is a safety concern for the population or it isn't. It's the inconsistency of the threat and our policies that people have problems with.

If you're unvaccinated and try to enter the country legally, you will be turned around. If you're unvaccinated and enter the country illegally, detained and released for future processing, you will not be forced to be vaccinated before being released into the US.

We know enough about how covid spreads and the initial living conditions of immigrants to know they are more likely to be in an environment where covid spreads easier. More people, smaller spaces, lower on the economic ladder. So this group in theory would be more of covid exposure threat to Americas vs unvaccinated tourists.

I thought there was a policy in place to have people who were trying to get into the country vaccinated as part of the process?

Is that not right?

I thought this whole discussion was about people who sneak in and don’t get caught.

We do. When they do it legally. If someone is caught entering illegally, they aren't force vaccinated and are often released into the population while they are "processed".

People that sneak in and don't get caught is another aspect of it. Not one I'd go guns blazin on, but more along the lines of if covid is such a major threat, why wouldn't we do more to limit it coming through the border unchecked. The reality is that covid isn't that major of a threat anymore.

Policy

This wasn’t quite how I understood it.

There are two issues I see here that are being conflated. Is it still the best practice to have people vaxed and how do we try to enforce this for this issue of people entering our country.

Personally I think vaccination is the most effective tool we have. Variants are changing this somewhat.

How do we work to make sure people are vaccinated but also allow some level of personal choice. That is much more difficult across a million different scenarios.

People coming here to say play tennis or go shopping traveling though Customs this is simple. Sorry you can’t come in.

Immigrants coming here, people seeking asylum, etc there is a lot more to take into account. I do think that vaccination for all diseases should be part of that but I can see in application that could get messy. On the whole though I believe that should be a part of the process.

I can't see the policy on NYT site. No access.

From my understanding, if an immigrant enters the country legally they will need to be vaccinated. If they come illegally and are detained, they are then released with a court date to request asylum. Those people are offered the vaccine, but since they are not American citizens and can not be forced to take the vaccine. If they choose not to, they are still released into the US pending their court date.

I'm not against enforcing the vaccine at the border for entry, but that isn't the humanitarian thing to do. If someone is coming here seeking asylum, I don't think they should be forced into a medical decision they don't want.

We can give them personal choice through recognizing natural immunity. Its estimated that 75% of people have had covid at some point. It could be higher.

How the variants and this variant booster play out may make me reevaluate my stance on the vaccine, but forcing someone to take an outdated vaccine for today's threat, just doesn't make a lot to me.

I'll concede that asylum is more important than tourism for reasons behind coming here, but what I don't like is when viewed through a public health lens, the asylum seekers are much more likely to end up in higher risk situations and spread covid more than a tourist who is going to stay in a hotel.

I will try and find another source later but the gist is as far as I can tell they are being vaxed. If they deny the shots there are some other factors that come into play.

I disagree with you on this but I appreciate the back and forth.

The vaccination mandate for the border is for legal immigrants. We have no policy to vaccinate illegal immigrants.

Think of it another way, do you think Biden is forcing asylum seekers back to the country they are fleeing because they wont take the covid vaccine?

What is this policy talking about: Link

"In order to further safeguard public health and ensure the safety of border communities, the workforce, and migrants, DHS is now expanding these efforts and, beginning today, requiring that noncitizens taken into CBP custody for further immigration processing at the Southwest land border be given age-appropriate COVID-19 vaccines,"

That article says "offering" a lot. That one quote makes it sound closer to mandatory, but I still think it's only offered. They arent kicking out immigrants who refuse it.

There was a BP representative a little while back saying only 40% of immigrants are taking them up on the vaccine. I'll have to see if I can find it.

The other article I linked to NY Times explained it as you take it or you will get removed essentially. At least that’s how I read it.

There were other factors at play based on how you were classified but the policy seemed clearly geared to what we have been talking about - you come here and are caught you need to get vaxed.

This article pointed out an interesting complexity. They were worried that this could encourage more people to try and come here. Also there would have been an issue when shots were harder to get if they were giving them to non-citizens.

Tbh, if that's the case I almost think it's worse if the US is turning away immigrants if they refuse the covid vaccine.

I tried to dig up the other article I was referring to earlier, but had no luck. Only an outdated NY Post story about 30% of immigrants refusing the vaccine in 2021.

It may have been on a podcast but the takeaway was that we arent mandating the covid vaccine on illegals while they wait for their day in court. I couldn't find an article to backup that claim, but it makes sense to me.

Where I am at is…we shouldn‘t have people coming in if they are unvaxed. This could be revisited as we move forward.

To include immigrants?

 

[The General]

So, I thought this thread was just some original opination from Stealthy. Saying this as gentle as I can, I thought this was just some irrational notion that crossed his mind.

However, this past weekend I was watching Fox News with my FIL and this was the actual talking point. Blew me away that such a stupid point is an actual national talking point.

acknowledging a public health policy has outlived it's usefulness is a stupid talking point?

No.

Trying to equate travel restrictions with border control is the stupid talking point.

ah gotcha.

FWIW, I see a valid discussion to be had as to whether the country needs to keep certain restrictions in place for travel such as in the Djokovic situation. As such, no issue of a public/national discussion about that.

Suggesting that such restrictions shouldn't be put into place because some people enter our country unvaccinated without going through the proper channels is a really bad red herring and should not be point made in any intelligent discussion on the underlying issue.

My take on that is the issue of if being unvaccinated is a safety concern for the population or it isn't. It's the inconsistency of the threat and our policies that people have problems with.

If you're unvaccinated and try to enter the country legally, you will be turned around. If you're unvaccinated and enter the country illegally, detained and released for future processing, you will not be forced to be vaccinated before being released into the US.

We know enough about how covid spreads and the initial living conditions of immigrants to know they are more likely to be in an environment where covid spreads easier. More people, smaller spaces, lower on the economic ladder. So this group in theory would be more of covid exposure threat to Americas vs unvaccinated tourists.

I thought there was a policy in place to have people who were trying to get into the country vaccinated as part of the process?

Is that not right?

I thought this whole discussion was about people who sneak in and don’t get caught.

We do. When they do it legally. If someone is caught entering illegally, they aren't force vaccinated and are often released into the population while they are "processed".

People that sneak in and don't get caught is another aspect of it. Not one I'd go guns blazin on, but more along the lines of if covid is such a major threat, why wouldn't we do more to limit it coming through the border unchecked. The reality is that covid isn't that major of a threat anymore.

Policy

This wasn’t quite how I understood it.

There are two issues I see here that are being conflated. Is it still the best practice to have people vaxed and how do we try to enforce this for this issue of people entering our country.

Personally I think vaccination is the most effective tool we have. Variants are changing this somewhat.

How do we work to make sure people are vaccinated but also allow some level of personal choice. That is much more difficult across a million different scenarios.

People coming here to say play tennis or go shopping traveling though Customs this is simple. Sorry you can’t come in.

Immigrants coming here, people seeking asylum, etc there is a lot more to take into account. I do think that vaccination for all diseases should be part of that but I can see in application that could get messy. On the whole though I believe that should be a part of the process.

I can't see the policy on NYT site. No access.

From my understanding, if an immigrant enters the country legally they will need to be vaccinated. If they come illegally and are detained, they are then released with a court date to request asylum. Those people are offered the vaccine, but since they are not American citizens and can not be forced to take the vaccine. If they choose not to, they are still released into the US pending their court date.

I'm not against enforcing the vaccine at the border for entry, but that isn't the humanitarian thing to do. If someone is coming here seeking asylum, I don't think they should be forced into a medical decision they don't want.

We can give them personal choice through recognizing natural immunity. Its estimated that 75% of people have had covid at some point. It could be higher.

How the variants and this variant booster play out may make me reevaluate my stance on the vaccine, but forcing someone to take an outdated vaccine for today's threat, just doesn't make a lot to me.

I'll concede that asylum is more important than tourism for reasons behind coming here, but what I don't like is when viewed through a public health lens, the asylum seekers are much more likely to end up in higher risk situations and spread covid more than a tourist who is going to stay in a hotel.

I will try and find another source later but the gist is as far as I can tell they are being vaxed. If they deny the shots there are some other factors that come into play.

I disagree with you on this but I appreciate the back and forth.

The vaccination mandate for the border is for legal immigrants. We have no policy to vaccinate illegal immigrants.

Think of it another way, do you think Biden is forcing asylum seekers back to the country they are fleeing because they wont take the covid vaccine?

What is this policy talking about: Link

"In order to further safeguard public health and ensure the safety of border communities, the workforce, and migrants, DHS is now expanding these efforts and, beginning today, requiring that noncitizens taken into CBP custody for further immigration processing at the Southwest land border be given age-appropriate COVID-19 vaccines,"

That article says "offering" a lot. That one quote makes it sound closer to mandatory, but I still think it's only offered. They arent kicking out immigrants who refuse it.

There was a BP representative a little while back saying only 40% of immigrants are taking them up on the vaccine. I'll have to see if I can find it.

The other article I linked to NY Times explained it as you take it or you will get removed essentially. At least that’s how I read it.

There were other factors at play based on how you were classified but the policy seemed clearly geared to what we have been talking about - you come here and are caught you need to get vaxed.

This article pointed out an interesting complexity. They were worried that this could encourage more people to try and come here. Also there would have been an issue when shots were harder to get if they were giving them to non-citizens.

Tbh, if that's the case I almost think it's worse if the US is turning away immigrants if they refuse the covid vaccine.

I tried to dig up the other article I was referring to earlier, but had no luck. Only an outdated NY Post story about 30% of immigrants refusing the vaccine in 2021.

It may have been on a podcast but the takeaway was that we arent mandating the covid vaccine on illegals while they wait for their day in court. I couldn't find an article to backup that claim, but it makes sense to me.

Where I am at is…we shouldn‘t have people coming in if they are unvaxed. This could be revisited as we move forward.

To include immigrants?

Yeah. Especially a year ago when this policy was likely made.

Reading through the article there are many considerations but for the most part I’d consider this something you would need to be willing to do to come into the country as a health issue.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Where I am at is…we shouldn‘t have people coming in if they are unvaxed. This could be revisited as we move forward.

I asked this before and I appreciate the humorous response - but is there a real reason?

 

[The General]

Where I am at is…we shouldn‘t have people coming in if they are unvaxed. This could be revisited as we move forward.

I asked this before and I appreciate the humorous response - but is there a real reason?

Pretty much would rather be cautious with this.

 

[jon_mx]

Because it is all about power.

 

[Max Power]

Because it is all about power.

I'm right there with you on that. We now have a new version of the vaccine and more evidence on natural immunity. This a prime reset time for our covid policy. If this admin goes high and right on it, I don't think most American's will respect it and the Government will come off even worse. The next several months will be telling....

 

[FairWarning]

Where I am at is…we shouldn‘t have people coming in if they are unvaxed. This could be revisited as we move forward.

I asked this before and I appreciate the humorous response - but is there a real reason?

Pretty much would rather be cautious with this.

Doesn’t the science suggest that we don’t have to wear masks anymore?

 

[The General]

Where I am at is…we shouldn‘t have people coming in if they are unvaxed. This could be revisited as we move forward.

I asked this before and I appreciate the humorous response - but is there a real reason?

Pretty much would rather be cautious with this.

Doesn’t the science suggest that we don’t have to wear masks anymore?

No clue. I haven’t had Covid yet so I’m keeping with my program but I don’t think masks are required in many situations any more.

We we’re talking about people coming in to the country being required to be vaxed which is prudent as far as I’m concerned. People coming in as immigrants is trickier than people flying in.

 

[parasaurolophus]

He is banned to travel to the US because he is not vaxed. The tournament is in NY so he doesn't get to play. There's not much else.

but if we don't allow un-vaxxed people into the USA, why are hundreds of thousands coming across the southern borders ?

One is well known tennis guy flying in and is checked by Customs. The other people are trying to sneak in.

It would be hard for the tennis guy to sneak in and play in the US Open.

But if we catch them we let them in. We wouldn't let Novak in.

It is indefensible.

 

[The General]

He is banned to travel to the US because he is not vaxed. The tournament is in NY so he doesn't get to play. There's not much else.

but if we don't allow un-vaxxed people into the USA, why are hundreds of thousands coming across the southern borders ?

One is well known tennis guy flying in and is checked by Customs. The other people are trying to sneak in.

It would be hard for the tennis guy to sneak in and play in the US Open.

But if we catch them we let them in. We wouldn't let Novak in.

It is indefensible.

This was discussed upthread and I believe the policy is if you are caught and try and stay in you must be vaxed in most cases.

I do have more sympathy for someone who is coming here as an immigrant than I do for someone who is coming to play tennis, go shopping, what have you.

In any case, in both these circumstances we should be aiming for these people to be vaxed IMO.

 

[parasaurolophus]

If an illegal comes across the border and isn't vaccinated, right back over the border they should go. Nothing further. Bye.

He is banned to travel to the US because he is not vaxed. The tournament is in NY so he doesn't get to play. There's not much else.

but if we don't allow un-vaxxed people into the USA, why are hundreds of thousands coming across the southern borders ?

One is well known tennis guy flying in and is checked by Customs. The other people are trying to sneak in.

It would be hard for the tennis guy to sneak in and play in the US Open.

But if we catch them we let them in. We wouldn't let Novak in.

It is indefensible.

This was discussed upthread and I believe the policy is if you are caught and try and stay in you must be vaxed in most cases.

I do have more sympathy for someone who is coming here as an immigrant than I do for someone who is coming to play tennis, go shopping, what have you.

In any case, in both these circumstances we should be aiming for these people to be vaxed IMO.

Sympathy should have nothing to do with it. It is either a Covid policy or it isn't.

That has been the problem all along. We don't have Covid policies. We have political policies. Everybody knows this, so nobody wants to follow them.

 

[The General]

If an illegal comes across the border and isn't vaccinated, right back over the border they should go. Nothing further. Bye.

He is banned to travel to the US because he is not vaxed. The tournament is in NY so he doesn't get to play. There's not much else.

but if we don't allow un-vaxxed people into the USA, why are hundreds of thousands coming across the southern borders ?

One is well known tennis guy flying in and is checked by Customs. The other people are trying to sneak in.

It would be hard for the tennis guy to sneak in and play in the US Open.

But if we catch them we let them in. We wouldn't let Novak in.

It is indefensible.

This was discussed upthread and I believe the policy is if you are caught and try and stay in you must be vaxed in most cases.

I do have more sympathy for someone who is coming here as an immigrant than I do for someone who is coming to play tennis, go shopping, what have you.

In any case, in both these circumstances we should be aiming for these people to be vaxed IMO.

Sympathy should have nothing to do with it. It is either a Covid policy or it isn't.

That has been the problem all along. We don't have Covid policies. We have political policies. Everybody knows this, so nobody wants to follow them.

That is the policy I believe.

There was some language about people refusing it and what they would do (not sure if that is a thing honestly, these people are coming here with nothing).

 

[FairWarning]

If an illegal comes across the border and isn't vaccinated, right back over the border they should go. Nothing further. Bye.

He is banned to travel to the US because he is not vaxed. The tournament is in NY so he doesn't get to play. There's not much else.

but if we don't allow un-vaxxed people into the USA, why are hundreds of thousands coming across the southern borders ?

One is well known tennis guy flying in and is checked by Customs. The other people are trying to sneak in.

It would be hard for the tennis guy to sneak in and play in the US Open.

But if we catch them we let them in. We wouldn't let Novak in.

It is indefensible.

This was discussed upthread and I believe the policy is if you are caught and try and stay in you must be vaxed in most cases.

I do have more sympathy for someone who is coming here as an immigrant than I do for someone who is coming to play tennis, go shopping, what have you.

In any case, in both these circumstances we should be aiming for these people to be vaxed IMO.

Sympathy should have nothing to do with it. It is either a Covid policy or it isn't.

That has been the problem all along. We don't have Covid policies. We have political policies. Everybody knows this, so nobody wants to follow them.

That is the policy I believe.

There was some language about people refusing it and what they would do (not sure if that is a thing honestly, these people are coming here with nothing).

If they give you covid, it’s still covid. This was the entire argument behind trusting the science.

 

[The General]

If an illegal comes across the border and isn't vaccinated, right back over the border they should go. Nothing further. Bye.

He is banned to travel to the US because he is not vaxed. The tournament is in NY so he doesn't get to play. There's not much else.

but if we don't allow un-vaxxed people into the USA, why are hundreds of thousands coming across the southern borders ?

One is well known tennis guy flying in and is checked by Customs. The other people are trying to sneak in.

It would be hard for the tennis guy to sneak in and play in the US Open.

But if we catch them we let them in. We wouldn't let Novak in.

It is indefensible.

This was discussed upthread and I believe the policy is if you are caught and try and stay in you must be vaxed in most cases.

I do have more sympathy for someone who is coming here as an immigrant than I do for someone who is coming to play tennis, go shopping, what have you.

In any case, in both these circumstances we should be aiming for these people to be vaxed IMO.

Sympathy should have nothing to do with it. It is either a Covid policy or it isn't.

That has been the problem all along. We don't have Covid policies. We have political policies. Everybody knows this, so nobody wants to follow them.

That is the policy I believe.

There was some language about people refusing it and what they would do (not sure if that is a thing honestly, these people are coming here with nothing).

If they give you covid, it’s still covid. This was the entire argument behind trusting the science.

They are vaxing people they catch. An interesting thing was they had initial worries when they started doing this that it could attract more illegals.

 

[parasaurolophus]

If an illegal comes across the border and isn't vaccinated, right back over the border they should go. Nothing further. Bye.

He is banned to travel to the US because he is not vaxed. The tournament is in NY so he doesn't get to play. There's not much else.

but if we don't allow un-vaxxed people into the USA, why are hundreds of thousands coming across the southern borders ?

One is well known tennis guy flying in and is checked by Customs. The other people are trying to sneak in.

It would be hard for the tennis guy to sneak in and play in the US Open.

But if we catch them we let them in. We wouldn't let Novak in.

It is indefensible.

This was discussed upthread and I believe the policy is if you are caught and try and stay in you must be vaxed in most cases.

I do have more sympathy for someone who is coming here as an immigrant than I do for someone who is coming to play tennis, go shopping, what have you.

In any case, in both these circumstances we should be aiming for these people to be vaxed IMO.

Sympathy should have nothing to do with it. It is either a Covid policy or it isn't.

That has been the problem all along. We don't have Covid policies. We have political policies. Everybody knows this, so nobody wants to follow them.

That is the policy I believe.

There was some language about people refusing it and what they would do (not sure if that is a thing honestly, these people are coming here with nothing).

I don't think that is the policy. I tried googling for it and it is tough to know exact current policy because it has been in court so many times. But I believe we still allow asylum seekers to not be vaccinated and are released into the US "with monitoring". But I admit I could be wrong on this.

 

[FairWarning]

If the VP doesn’t know or enforce the policy, you will have a hard time also.