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Why hasn't soccer caught on in America? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter wazoo11
- Start date
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I am unsure what you are saying here. Out of interest, what team do you think I was referring to?
Politician Spock
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
The past ten years the highest drawing team in the US has been the Mexican National team. Their international games sellout stadiums all over the country. They play more games here in than they do in their own country.
Also Liga MX (Mexican League) is the most watched soccer league in the US(tv), more than EPL and MLS.
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Politician Spock
Footballguy
E Street Brat
Footballguy
Go Rowdies!!!
Seriously just go..
Seriously just go..
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I think it was the Wall Street journal who recently put out a list of all the bigger leagues in the US (both team based leagues and individual based leagues (UFC, NASCAR etc) and ranked them by the average age of their tv viewers based on Nielsen data.
If memory serves, MLS and UFC were by far the youngest and MLB and NASCAR were by far the oldest viewers.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Doesnt the fact that there are 162 games also hurt tv ratings? How about radio? I listen to way more games on the radio than i watch. I agree that football and basketball are still more popular, but i think tv ratings dont show true picture.
You cant just dismiss attendance either. Baseball is more catered to attending games then i think any other sport is. There are no tv timeouts. Tv fits in where the game lets it. Pretty much everybody i know goes to at least one baseball game each year. Definitely cant say that about football and basketball. I havent gone to an nba game in years and i love basketball. I know lots of people that turn down football tickets because they like their home setup better due to fantasy.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
looking at baseball's national tv ratings leaves out a majority of their picture.
Everyone knows the MLB national tv ratings are relatively weak but much of that I think is due to the local nature of the sport where fans are more focused on watching their local team. Here in Boston over the years people watch the Red Sox in large numbers but put any other two teams on the nationally televised game and the numbers lower significantly. This is true in many cities.
Baseball's tv foot print has always been local tv first, national tv a distant second.
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
The only time we get to see real league games other than MLS is on television. I don't believe there has ever been an actual professional competitive game played in the US by non-US clubs as far as I am aware (maybe the Mexican league has done it, like the NFL has been doing in England in recent years?) On the national level, there are competitive (real, meaningful) games played here almost every year within our confederation, which is the US, Mexico, Canada and central America. No European national team has played a real game in the US since we hosted the world cup in 1994. None of the great South American nations (Brazil, Argentina, etc.) had played a real game in the US until last summer, when we hosted a rare "Copa America" tournament.
Just clarifying the issue a bit - these games the American fans flock to are exhibitions, similar to pre-season or All-Star/All-Pro exhibition games, with nothing on the line, relaxed rules, little defense and players still getting in shape and playing half speed.
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Certain sports lend itself to live vs TV. Baseball is probably the biggest example. Going to a baseball game is great. It doesn't translate near as well to TV. Football on the other hand really sucks in person (I am only referring to actually watching the game). Too many TV timeouts. Too much standing around. Zero game flow. Football has morphed into a game best suited to watch on TV. Hockey is much better in person. In fact, it is my favorite spectator sport by far but it doesn't translate as well to TV unless you really know the game.
I also think cost of going to a game has some influence as well. Baseball is by far the cheapest ticket to get. Basketball, Football are very expensive. A lot of that has to do with supply and demand.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I can only think(admittedly my memory is going) of one in recent decades and you can barely qualify it as competitive.
Back in 2003, Juventus played Inter at Giants Stadium for the Supercoppa.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
for the leagues, soccer is cheaper than baseball at this point. International soccer game prices are up there though.
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General Malaise
Footballguy
Very good post, DM. My first MLS game was a blast, but when regulation time expired and the score was 1-1 I turned to my BIL and excitedly said "OVERTIME!!!!!' and he laughed at me and said "No, the game is over. It ends in a tie unless it's the playoffs". I'm okay with it now, but that floored me. We're Americans....we don't do ties, damn it!The Dreaded Marco said:
General Malaise
Footballguy
Not only do the Timbers sell out every game here, but the Thorns are also a huge draw. I went to a game last year and it was a lot of fun. Great atmosphere. Portland loves its soccer. I took a few kids from our soccer team to a T2 game last year, which is developmental squad for the Timbers (think AAA baseball). What I really liked about it was being so close to the coaches and listening to them talk to the players. That kind of access is rare at the pro-level, so it was pretty neat.
Jobber
Footballguy
We were in Porland two weekends ago and went to a Thorns game. We were floored that the place was near sellout to a WOMENs soccer game. We had a blast, and even having to step over the pee smelling bums at the light rail station didn't ruin the fun.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
call it a draw instead and all is better
I am glad to hear you have enjoyed your Timbers experience. I have never seen a game there but the atmosphere looks awesome on TV.
The stadium expansion looks really cool too and god knows they could use it. I think they have sold out every single game since they entered MLS in 2011.
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Insoxicated
Baseball's fan base is aging and the game is doing a very poor job of courting a new generation of fans... thus the game itself is in decline, in general. Soccer's fan base is very young and growing fast. Not to mention lots of older fans of other sports are coming over.
I love the game of baseball. I used to get Extra innings to watch 40-50 Red Sox games a year. I followed the playoffs and World Series pretty religiously. I've cancelled my Extra Innings package. This year I'll likely watch 4-5x as many soccer matches as baseball games. I'm not alone.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Soccer's also has strong ties to hispanics which I believe continue to be the fastest growing demographic group in the country in terms of total numbers.
Baseball's fan base is aging and the game is doing a very poor job of courting a new generation of fans... thus the game itself is in decline, in general. Soccer's fan base is very young and growing fast. Not to mention lots of older fans of other sports are coming over.
I love the game of baseball. I used to get Extra innings to watch 40-50 Red Sox games a year. I followed the playoffs and World Series pretty religiously. I've cancelled my Extra Innings package. This year I'll likely watch 4-5x as many soccer matches as baseball games. I'm not alone.
Moe.
Footballguy
Really? Man, I find that hard to believe. You can usually get into a Royals game for $15 or so, Sporting is considerably more. I wonder if they are using the mean or median or accounting for seat quality. The range is definitely huge for baseball.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
There was a Reddit thread awhile back about how the Columbus Crew was dead last in attendance this year. Many of the comments said that the league sets a minimum price for all markets, and that has resulted in the Crew tickets costing too much for the Columbus market. I think people said it was $35 for the cheapest ticket. That's way more than the $7 it takes to get into a Columbus Clippers (AAA) game.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
If you index the NFL's TV contract at 1000 (it's worth $7B), here's the relative value of the national contracts for other major sports...
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Here in NE the cheapest ticket is $28 on game day for the Revs. https://www.revolutionsoccer.net/tickets/individual-tickets
But season tickets are much cheaper. My season ticket pass cost $290 this year. That included 17 home games and a ticket, including free transportation, to one away game in NY. It is a fabulous value that is really hard to match in other sports here in the area.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
it probably varies town to town. Sporting sells out every game so they can likely charge more.
Here in Boston, the average ticket price for the Red Sox is higher than the most expensive seat for the Revs.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
I took my family to the Ohio State Fair yesterday. We parked near Mapfre stadium where the Columbus Crew play. My 12 year old son asks, "what do they play in that stadium?" I said, "Soccer... would you like to go to a game?", He replied, "Uh... no!" and laughed. My wife, daughter, 14 year old son and his friend all laughed at his emphatic response. I gotta admit, I chuckled a bit too. They probably would have laughed even more if they knew the prices of tickets.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
while this factoid is not quite germane to the discussion, it is worth noting the NHL is the only American team league that generates more revenue from TV internationally, than domestically. That is very specific to Canada obviously.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Cold Dead Hands
Footballguy
I have a hard time watching pro soccer and pro basketball for the exact same reason. Ridiculous flops. Look, if a guy is rolling around on the ground in "pain" the rule should be they sub out. Period. Every sport does it but bball and soccer are the worst offenders.
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Kafka
Footballguy
So a man who goes by the "name" of "PoliticianSpock", looks down upon soccer, & feels comfortable mocking it, ..as does the fruit of his loins...all whilst patronizing the Ohio State Fair...How will the game of soccer, as we know it, ever recover from this?
Kafka
Footballguy
Kafka
Footballguy
Politician Spock
Footballguy
I haven't been to the fair in decades. We decided to go because someone was killed on one of the rides last week, so they shut down the rides and attendance dropped. Being business owners ourselves, my wife and I decided to take our family there to eat, play some games and buy junk to support the vendors who got screwed by an accident they had nothing to do with.
Kafka
Footballguy
Johnny Rock
Footballguy
1) Get rid of arbitrary extra time by using a clock that stops for dead ball situations. The amount of time remaining should be a known quantity.
2) Change offsides to be similar to hockey by making a delineated line. Once the ball is over that line it's fair game.
3) Injuries simply stop the clock so it removes the incentive for faking. Remove the player from the game.
That's a start to get me interested. And I love virtually all sports.
2) Change offsides to be similar to hockey by making a delineated line. Once the ball is over that line it's fair game.
3) Injuries simply stop the clock so it removes the incentive for faking. Remove the player from the game.
That's a start to get me interested. And I love virtually all sports.
General Malaise
Footballguy
The games are a blast. I've gone to quite a few. The Timber Army is a ton of fun to watch during the matches; they LOVE their team and will sing and chant and have funny signs.call it a draw instead and all is better
I am glad to hear you have enjoyed your Timbers experience. I have never seen a game there but the atmosphere looks awesome on TV.
The stadium expansion looks really cool too and god knows they could use it. I think they have sold out every single game since they entered MLS in 2011.
A draw. Got it, thanks!
roadkill1292
Footballguy
The answer to the thread question is -- a system that disregards and disrespects Altoona.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Portland loves its soccer, both genders. When the US Women were in the final against Japan two summers ago, the sports bars were standing room only.
The homeless problem here has gotten really bad. Our politicians have failed massively here and it's getting worse by the day.
rockaction
Footballguy
What would be awesome and fruitful would be to regulate businesses more stringently, police the vagrancy and loitering laws more laxly, and tax the earning base more.
Portland loves its soccer, both genders. When the US Women were in the final against Japan two summers ago, the sports bars were standing room only.
The homeless problem here has gotten really bad. Our politicians have failed massively here and it's getting worse by the day.
Surely these simple suggestions will help Portland's homeless problem.
/you'rewelcome
General Malaise
Footballguy
Other cities send their homeless here on a one way bus trip. There's ramshackle tent camps all over the city, near the freeways, all over downtown, creeping into the suburbs.
I will send your suggestions on to our city leaders, thank you citizen.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
I forgot about pre-season games.
Add another 4,034,708 to baseball for spring training attendance. link
Can't find any data on NFL preseason attendance, but found preseason game attendance can be as high as 90,000. link. There are 64 preseason NFL games.
Can't find any data on NBA preseason attendance either. There are 90 preseason NBA games
Can't find any data on NHL preseason attendance. Looks like there's around 100 preseason NHL games.
Can't find any data on MLS preseason attendance. Looks like there's around 50 to 60 preseason MLS games.
So, while I feel for those who are disappointed that soccer's international games were left out of the data above, every sport has non-league competition games left out of the data. Adding it might move each sport around by a percentage or two, but nothing significant would really change.
The above was my first post to this thread, and I'm kind of shocked by the heat I took from it. To me, 4% of the attendance market in mind says "soccer has caught on". While it's not as much as the top four sports, it's ten times more than the sixth sport. And while I don't have the data to back it up, I think it's a lot more of the attendance market than they sport had 20 years ago. It's grown a lot. And that's good for America.
The only reason I
at soccer zealots and 
them is because they overreact a lot. There's was nothing about the data I presented that was negative towards soccer. Again, it shows it has significant share of the attendance market. But their confirmation bias for soccer makes them look at that data and believe it's wrong or flawed or misleading or whatever... because it doesn't confirm their bias. So yes, I'm guilty of not being excellent toward soccer fans in my follow up posts, but it's because there's no reason I should have been treated they way they treated me for simply posting data that I thought was evidence that soccer has caught on. I apologize to soccer fans for my recent
I'll wait for the return apology.
rockaction
Footballguy
I am always here to help our fine and densely populated areas.Other cities send their homeless here on a one way bus trip. There's ramshackle tent camps all over the city, near the freeways, all over downtown, creeping into the suburbs.
I will send your suggestions on to our city leaders, thank you citizen.
No, seriously, I'm being snarky. I do not know Portland's homeless problem intimately nor can I really prescribe anything for a problem endemic to a specific area. My friends live in Portland, are earnest progressives, and lodge similar complaints.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Out of curiosity - not trying to sound like a jerk - do you understand how the offside rule works? There is somewhat an offside line already - it is the midfield line. No player can be offside on his own half of the field. The NASL did also try a 35-yard offside line in the 70s, but it didn't catch on.
I understand your concern on #1, but would that really get you interested? Say the clock stops every time the ball goes out of bounds, and there's effectively like 4:10 of added time. Under the current regime, the 4th official puts up a sign saying "4 minutes". Would knowing that the actual clock is 4:10 rather than 4:00 really make you more likely to watch the sport? This is one of the things I used to critique, but I've come to the personal belief that it's not nearly as important as I used to make it out to be. But everyone is entitled to his personal opinion.
#3 is kept on the field by the officials and ends up being added as part of the added time at the end. So it does happen, effectively, but is not as transparent as literally stopping the running clock.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
it is interesting that the other thread got nuked because some soccer hater likely reported it because they were too sensitive to get the joke.The only reason I
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I think you got more heat from admitting you never heard of Mexico before rather than posting data.
YMMV.
