Csonka4life
Footballguy
I noticed that alot of young hungry guys have been hired to be head coaches but not one black or latino coach has been hired? Are the GM's up to their old tricks.......
Or there werent any qualified minorities worth hiring?I noticed that alot of young hungry guys have been hired to be head coaches but not one black or latino coach has been hired? Are the GM's up to their old tricks.......
Yes. That's a pretty easy questions. I think the success of Lovie Smith and Marvin Lewis show that there are/were very qualified black coach but could not get HC jobs until the Rooney rule was implemented.Is it possible that teams are just going after the best guys for the job, regardless of skin color, and the guys who are considered to be the best for the job just happen to be white? And does anyone honestly believe that any owner in the NFL would rather hire an inferior coaching candidate just because he's white?
The problem is lack of minority coordinators. The NFL is improving, but it takes time.I noticed that alot of young hungry guys have been hired to be head coaches but not one black or latino coach has been hired? Are the GM's up to their old tricks.......
Who'd you have in mind? Then compare them to the guys who were actually hired - then we can debate.I noticed that alot of young hungry guys have been hired to be head coaches but not one black or latino coach has been hired? Are the GM's up to their old tricks.......
Actually, assistant coaches have a history of getting their shot AFTER a tough loss, because those who are riding deep playoff runs are usually too tied up in the prep process to adequately jump through hoops for owners who want to interview these guys.It's no coincidence that Brad Childress landed a head coaching job this year, the first time the Eagles didn't make the 'offs in six years. How many years did Weis and Crennel seemingly get passed over because the Pats were always winning? One game isn't what makes or breaks a DC/OC from getting a HC shot. Jim Mora got his job off a 7-9 season in San Fran, etc...Ron Rivera lost any possibility of being a head coach after the Carolina game.
Why is there such a low % of black assistant coaches?This issue always makes me :X
If a "minority" candidate is hired, people celebrate it as if the team/owner just did something that should win them a Nobel Prize. If a "white" candidate is hired, people howl about how Tha Man is keeping "us" ( ) down....
Maybe, just MAYBE teams are hiring the person that they think is best for the job, irregardless of the color of their skin?! You give me Tony Dungy or Marvin Lewis as the head coach of the Minnesota Vikings, I'd be dancing for joy! Actually, I'd take those two coaches over any other "white" coaches that come to mind at the moment.....but I guess my Minnesota Vikings (and owner Zygi Wilf) must be racist/prejudice because they hired Brad Childress as the team's new head coach.
Until we are COLORBLIND as a society, we'll never achieve our maximum potential as a nation. Being colorblind though HAS to work both ways though........and Americans are NOTORIOUSLY good at coming up with reasons or excuses why they aren't given _________ in life.
Hey Derek,I don't think anyone would question the teams right to hire the best guys for the job, but ultimately the question is, are minority coaches being given a fair shot at proving themselves? Why are guys like Jim Caldwell [WR coach], Mike Singletary [DL coach], James Lofton [WR coach] in many cases the ONLY minorities being interviewed for all these HC positions, when there are plenty of seemingly deserving minority coordinators who would more likely match up credential for credential with the guys who are landing these jobs?This issue always makes me :X
If a "minority" candidate is hired, people celebrate it as if the team/owner just did something that should win them a Nobel Prize. If a "white" candidate is hired, people howl about how Tha Man is keeping "us" ( ) down....
Maybe, just MAYBE teams are hiring the person that they think is best for the job, irregardless of the color of their skin?! You give me Tony Dungy or Marvin Lewis as the head coach of the Minnesota Vikings, I'd be dancing for joy! Actually, I'd take those two coaches over any other "white" coaches that come to mind at the moment.....but I guess my Minnesota Vikings (and owner Zygi Wilf) must be racist/prejudice because they hired Brad Childress as the team's new head coach.
Until we are COLORBLIND as a society, we'll never achieve our maximum potential as a nation. Being colorblind though HAS to work both ways though........and Americans are NOTORIOUSLY good at coming up with reasons or excuses why they aren't given _________ in life.
The issue is that there isn't a big enough pool to hire from. These WR coaches need to get bumped to assistant level jobs.You can't hire a WR coach to head coach.Hey Derek,I don't think anyone would question the teams right to hire the best guys for the job, but ultimately the question is, are minority coaches being given a fair shot at proving themselves? Why are guys like Jim Caldwell [WR coach], Mike Singletary [DL coach], James Lofton [WR coach] in many cases the ONLY minorities being interviewed for all these HC positions, when there are plenty of seemingly deserving minority coordinators who would more likely match up credential for credential with the guys who are landing these jobs?This issue always makes me :X
If a "minority" candidate is hired, people celebrate it as if the team/owner just did something that should win them a Nobel Prize. If a "white" candidate is hired, people howl about how Tha Man is keeping "us" ( ) down....
Maybe, just MAYBE teams are hiring the person that they think is best for the job, irregardless of the color of their skin?! You give me Tony Dungy or Marvin Lewis as the head coach of the Minnesota Vikings, I'd be dancing for joy! Actually, I'd take those two coaches over any other "white" coaches that come to mind at the moment.....but I guess my Minnesota Vikings (and owner Zygi Wilf) must be racist/prejudice because they hired Brad Childress as the team's new head coach.
Until we are COLORBLIND as a society, we'll never achieve our maximum potential as a nation. Being colorblind though HAS to work both ways though........and Americans are NOTORIOUSLY good at coming up with reasons or excuses why they aren't given _________ in life.
The NFL's worst nightmare is a season when 10 new HC openings end up with zero net new minority hires.
AgreedThe issue is that there isn't a big enough pool to hire from. These WR coaches need to get bumped to assistant level jobs.You can't hire a WR coach to head coach.Hey Derek,I don't think anyone would question the teams right to hire the best guys for the job, but ultimately the question is, are minority coaches being given a fair shot at proving themselves? Why are guys like Jim Caldwell [WR coach], Mike Singletary [DL coach], James Lofton [WR coach] in many cases the ONLY minorities being interviewed for all these HC positions, when there are plenty of seemingly deserving minority coordinators who would more likely match up credential for credential with the guys who are landing these jobs?This issue always makes me :X
If a "minority" candidate is hired, people celebrate it as if the team/owner just did something that should win them a Nobel Prize. If a "white" candidate is hired, people howl about how Tha Man is keeping "us" ( ) down....
Maybe, just MAYBE teams are hiring the person that they think is best for the job, irregardless of the color of their skin?! You give me Tony Dungy or Marvin Lewis as the head coach of the Minnesota Vikings, I'd be dancing for joy! Actually, I'd take those two coaches over any other "white" coaches that come to mind at the moment.....but I guess my Minnesota Vikings (and owner Zygi Wilf) must be racist/prejudice because they hired Brad Childress as the team's new head coach.
Until we are COLORBLIND as a society, we'll never achieve our maximum potential as a nation. Being colorblind though HAS to work both ways though........and Americans are NOTORIOUSLY good at coming up with reasons or excuses why they aren't given _________ in life.
The NFL's worst nightmare is a season when 10 new HC openings end up with zero net new minority hires.
That's gotta be the funniest thing I have heard in a while. You make a good point. The reason there is not enough white rb's and db's is because there is simply not enough qualified for the position. Much like the coaching. It's not because of the color of their skin. Only an idiot racist would see it that way. It's because they (as people) are simply not qualified...yet.
I will admit that minorities in the past have not been given a fair shot. That was a shame. More minorities are getting hired for the asst. coaching positions as well as coordinators and they are earning their promotions. However it seems that society wants to make up for our mistakes by filling a quota no matter what the skill of the minority is. Meanwhile other qualified people are not hired simply because they are not a minority. Reverse discrimination, it's as simple as that.
In the NFL, Lovie Smith and Marvin Lewis as well as Dungy are great coaches and have earned where they are by performance and not because they are a minorities. In fact I think they would be insulted if people thought that. They should be.
Jason,Thanks. I'm not saying that there MIGHT not be a problem in certain circumstances! What I get upset with is that everyone immediately jumps to the assumption/conclusion that racism and prejudice is the cause. THAT is what drives me absolutely crazy related to these types of issues......kind of like the occasional individual questioning my own firm's hiring practices (seven employees) when I've never had any "non-white" designers even apply for a job with our company in 6+ years (other than firm owners in India trying to get us to move work off-shore, which I wasn't interested in). Heck, I've only had two women apply for a job in six years as well (hiring one of them), so I must OBVIOUSLY be a "sexist" too. People try AWFULLY hard to make the world "black" and "white", when in reality, 99% of the world is GRAY. If racism/prejudice is at the heart of hiring issues, then it needs to be stamped out ASAP. What gets my dander up though is everyone labelling situations as being racism/prejudice without any proof whatsoever.It sucks. It really, REALLY sucks.Hey Derek,I don't think anyone would question the teams right to hire the best guys for the job, but ultimately the question is, are minority coaches being given a fair shot at proving themselves? Why are guys like Jim Caldwell [WR coach], Mike Singletary [DL coach], James Lofton [WR coach] in many cases the ONLY minorities being interviewed for all these HC positions, when there are plenty of seemingly deserving minority coordinators who would more likely match up credential for credential with the guys who are landing these jobs?The NFL's worst nightmare is a season when 10 new HC openings end up with zero net new minority hires.
Hey Derek,You make great points and obviously have a passionate view that's personally related to your being a small business owner. Overall I agree with you, but I think it's perfectly reasonable IN THIS CASE to look at the situation and at least ask whether the Rooney Rule is having the desired impact. Regardless of whether you agree/disagree with the Rooney Rule, it exists. Now, in most cases, teams have interviewed six or more candidates. In most of these cases, the minority interview was either a position coach who wasn't considered to have much of a shot in the first place OR a minority coach on the current staff. It's not unreasonable to take a holistic view of this hiring term [10 HC vacancies] and see the potential for a problem.Jason,Thanks. I'm not saying that there MIGHT be a problem in certain circumstances! What I get upset with is that everyone immediately jumps to the assumption/conclusion that racism and prejudice is the cause. THAT is what drives me absolutely crazy related to these types of issues......kind of like the occasional individual questioning my own firm's hiring practices (seven employees) when I've never had any "non-white" designers even apply for a job with our company in 6+ years (other than firm owners in India trying to get us to move work off-shore, which I wasn't interested in). Heck, I've only had two women apply for a job in six years as well (hiring one of them), so I must OBVIOUSLY be a "sexist" too.Hey Derek,
I don't think anyone would question the teams right to hire the best guys for the job, but ultimately the question is, are minority coaches being given a fair shot at proving themselves? Why are guys like Jim Caldwell [WR coach], Mike Singletary [DL coach], James Lofton [WR coach] in many cases the ONLY minorities being interviewed for all these HC positions, when there are plenty of seemingly deserving minority coordinators who would more likely match up credential for credential with the guys who are landing these jobs?
The NFL's worst nightmare is a season when 10 new HC openings end up with zero net new minority hires.
People try AWFULLY hard to make the world "black" and "white", when in reality, 99% of the world is GRAY. If racism/prejudice is at the heart of hiring issues, then it needs to be stamped out ASAP. What gets my dander up though is everyone labelling situations as being racism/prejudice without any proof whatsoever.
It sucks. It really, REALLY sucks.
Bagger,Sincere question: if that is the real issue here, then why are all the headlines about no "black" head coaches being hired in the media? Shouldn't the REAL headlines be "why aren't there more "black" assistant coaches and coordinators being hired in the NFL?" Just curious. My guess though is that taking that stance isn't as easy in a "black and white" world.....since there ARE a number of "minority" coordinators and coaches on practically every franchise in the NFL.the issue is not with hiring enough black coaches, that is the result of the issue. the issue is that there are not enough black coaches available to be put in a position to be hired.
Yes, that should be the headline, but that doesn't sell newspapers as much I imagine.Bagger,Sincere question: if that is the real issue here, then why are all the headlines about no "black" head coaches being hired in the media? Shouldn't the REAL headlines be "why aren't there more "black" assistant coaches and coordinators being hired in the NFL?" Just curious. My guess though is that taking that stance isn't as easy in a "black and white" world.....since there ARE a number of "minority" coordinators and coaches on practically every franchise in the NFL.the issue is not with hiring enough black coaches, that is the result of the issue. the issue is that there are not enough black coaches available to be put in a position to be hired.
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! So, does anyone have a quick run-down on the % of "minority" assistant coaches and coordinators in the NFL? Just curious. That would go a L-O-N-G way towards helping us know the extent of the actual problem that exists.As to Jason's comments, I agree. The Caldwell AND Cotrell interviews smelled awfully "obligatory" to me here in Minnesota. However, if Wilf had already been thinking "Childress" before Tice had even been fired, any "white" candidate (like Saunders) he brought in was likely obligatory as well....to keep the Eagles or anyone else from implying that any potential tampering might have occurred. Is it "fishy" because of racism/prejudice issues....or is it "fishy" because Wilf had his top candidate in mind before Tice was fired?Yes, that should be the headline, but that doesn't sell newspapers as much I imagine.Bagger,Sincere question: if that is the real issue here, then why are all the headlines about no "black" head coaches being hired in the media? Shouldn't the REAL headlines be "why aren't there more "black" assistant coaches and coordinators being hired in the NFL?" Just curious. My guess though is that taking that stance isn't as easy in a "black and white" world.....since there ARE a number of "minority" coordinators and coaches on practically every franchise in the NFL.the issue is not with hiring enough black coaches, that is the result of the issue. the issue is that there are not enough black coaches available to be put in a position to be hired.
I think Modus is on the right track on this one. People are so quick to wade into the issue of minority coaching hires with ideas like racism and reverse discrimination. I think in many ways, our society has moved past overt racism, but these descriptors have not. These days it's far more likely for hiring decisions both in and outside of the NFL to be influenced by things like comfort level. You here it all of the time with phrases like, 'he was just a good fit for our program.'Sometimes it's just easy to surround yourself with people you're "comfortable" with, and often that translates into white team owners and executives surrounding themselves with other white folks. I don't think it's racism, but it does help explain the lack of opportunities for black coaches and front office personnel, despite their large relative numbers in the player pool. The Rooney rule is just designed help minority candidates get some consideration as hires.Hell the owner of the Bengals said he would've never hired Marvin Lewis if it wasn't for the new rules mandated by the NFL to interview at least one minority. It's a white owners league, and a white GM league.
There's a level of comfort talking to white coaches and I don't think that comfort translates to black coaches all the time. You see it in business, the school yard, etc. . . why wouldn't this translate to the NFL?
Not sure if it should be either. I just know it should be higher than what it currently is.Q: Should the %age of minority coaches in the NFL more closely represent the %age of minorities in society at large or the %age of minorities players in the NFL?
Well, black coaches make up 18% of the NFL today so I guess your answer is that it must be closer to the percentage of players in the NFL since they make 12-15% of the overall US population.Should we be upset that a disproportionate amount of white coaches lost their jobs this year?Not sure if it should be either. I just know it should be higher than what it currently is.Q: Should the %age of minority coaches in the NFL more closely represent the %age of minorities in society at large or the %age of minorities players in the NFL?
Why should we be? They were all replaced (but one) by other white coaches.Well, black coaches make up 18% of the NFL today so I guess your answer is that it must be closer to the percentage of players in the NFL since they make 12-15% of the overall US population.Should we be upset that a disproportionate amount of white coaches lost their jobs this year?Not sure if it should be either. I just know it should be higher than what it currently is.Q: Should the %age of minority coaches in the NFL more closely represent the %age of minorities in society at large or the %age of minorities players in the NFL?
Yes. The issue at hand is that no new black coaches had a shot at getting into the head coaching carosal.Isn't Herm Edwards a minority??
How can you not notice?Why would anyone even notice or ask? A coach is a coach.
Herm say is in not black, hesays he is of mixed race.Yes. The issue at hand is that no new black coaches had a shot at getting into the head coaching carosal.Isn't Herm Edwards a minority??
Easy, you would rather focus on what kind of coaching job the person is doing rather than what skin color he is.How can you not notice?Why would anyone even notice or ask? A coach is a coach.
Because when i hear of a hire and see the guy i dont see color or race. If you do, i see it as a problem.How can you not notice?Why would anyone even notice or ask? A coach is a coach.
You're missing the point. I am not focusing on who is coaching at the head coaching level, I am focusing on why there is no talent pool for GMs to choose from at an assistant level.Easy, you would rather focus on what kind of coaching job the person is doing rather than what skin color he is.How can you not notice?Why would anyone even notice or ask? A coach is a coach.
wooooooooooooooshhhhhhBecause when i hear of a hire and see the guy i dont see color or race. If you do, i see it as a problem.How can you not notice?Why would anyone even notice or ask? A coach is a coach.