Csonka4life
Footballguy
I noticed that alot of young hungry guys have been hired to be head coaches but not one black or latino coach has been hired? Are the GM's up to their old tricks....... 
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Why no minority hirings? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Csonka4life
- Start date
Borat
Footballguy
Is it possible that teams are just going after the best guys for the job, regardless of skin color, and the guys who are considered to be the best for the job just happen to be white? And does anyone honestly believe that any owner in the NFL would rather hire an inferior coaching candidate just because he's white?
diesel7982
Footballguy
Or there werent any qualified minorities worth hiring?I noticed that alot of young hungry guys have been hired to be head coaches but not one black or latino coach has been hired? Are the GM's up to their old tricks.......
-OZ-
Footballguy
Bears_Man2
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I think the real news is that there has been no outcry about it yet. Quick! Someone call Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton about this outrage!
Csonka4life
Footballguy
Actually Herm Edwards is half German-American........... 
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I think we have to wait and see if Al Davis hires a minority, which remains a distinct possibility. But right or wrong, there absolutely WILL be an outcry over the lack of minority hirings this offseason. With 10 HC jobs changing hands, it will be disappointing to those beholden to the "Rooney Rule" that no new minorities HCs were added [obviously Herm was added, but was replaced in NY by a white guy].
Objectively you have to peel back the layers and look at who was interviewed for each job and whether minority candidates were under "serious" consideration. I would contend that talking to position coaches like Jim Caldwell, James Lofton and Mike Singletary as the only minority candidate looks inadequate in my estimation. But that said, we don't and can't know if guys like Donnie Henderson and Tim Lewis were really serious candidates anywhere. Certainly Ron Rivera was among the three finalists in St. Louis, so that's one feather in the cap of those who would argue the system is working.
Objectively you have to peel back the layers and look at who was interviewed for each job and whether minority candidates were under "serious" consideration. I would contend that talking to position coaches like Jim Caldwell, James Lofton and Mike Singletary as the only minority candidate looks inadequate in my estimation. But that said, we don't and can't know if guys like Donnie Henderson and Tim Lewis were really serious candidates anywhere. Certainly Ron Rivera was among the three finalists in St. Louis, so that's one feather in the cap of those who would argue the system is working.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Actually, assistant coaches have a history of getting their shot AFTER a tough loss, because those who are riding deep playoff runs are usually too tied up in the prep process to adequately jump through hoops for owners who want to interview these guys.It's no coincidence that Brad Childress landed a head coaching job this year, the first time the Eagles didn't make the 'offs in six years. How many years did Weis and Crennel seemingly get passed over because the Pats were always winning? One game isn't what makes or breaks a DC/OC from getting a HC shot. Jim Mora got his job off a 7-9 season in San Fran, etc...
Stillers Jr.
Footballguy
OWNED
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I think the NFL should really adress the lack of white talent at the running back and defensive back positions.
This issue always makes me :X If a "minority" candidate is hired, people celebrate it as if the team/owner just did something that should win them a Nobel Prize. If a "white" candidate is hired, people howl about how Tha Man is keeping "us" ( ) down....Maybe, just MAYBE teams are hiring the person that they think is best for the job, irregardless of the color of their skin?! 
You give me Tony Dungy or Marvin Lewis as the head coach of the Minnesota Vikings, I'd be dancing for joy! Actually, I'd take those two coaches over any other "white" coaches that come to mind at the moment.....but I guess my Minnesota Vikings (and owner Zygi Wilf) must be racist/prejudice because they hired Brad Childress as the team's new head coach. 
Until we are COLORBLIND as a society, we'll never achieve our maximum potential as a nation. Being colorblind though HAS to work both ways though........and Americans are NOTORIOUSLY good at coming up with reasons or excuses why they aren't given _________ in life. 
) down....Maybe, just MAYBE teams are hiring the person that they think is best for the job, irregardless of the color of their skin?! You give me Tony Dungy or Marvin Lewis as the head coach of the Minnesota Vikings, I'd be dancing for joy! Actually, I'd take those two coaches over any other "white" coaches that come to mind at the moment.....but I guess my Minnesota Vikings (and owner Zygi Wilf) must be racist/prejudice because they hired Brad Childress as the team's new head coach. Until we are COLORBLIND as a society, we'll never achieve our maximum potential as a nation. Being colorblind though HAS to work both ways though........and Americans are NOTORIOUSLY good at coming up with reasons or excuses why they aren't given _________ in life. 
bagger.
The One Play Quiz
Why is there such a low % of black assistant coaches?This issue always makes me :X
If a "minority" candidate is hired, people celebrate it as if the team/owner just did something that should win them a Nobel Prize. If a "white" candidate is hired, people howl about how Tha Man is keeping "us" (
Maybe, just MAYBE teams are hiring the person that they think is best for the job, irregardless of the color of their skin?!
Until we are COLORBLIND as a society, we'll never achieve our maximum potential as a nation. Being colorblind though HAS to work both ways though........and Americans are NOTORIOUSLY good at coming up with reasons or excuses why they aren't given _________ in life.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Hey Derek,I don't think anyone would question the teams right to hire the best guys for the job, but ultimately the question is, are minority coaches being given a fair shot at proving themselves? Why are guys like Jim Caldwell [WR coach], Mike Singletary [DL coach], James Lofton [WR coach] in many cases the ONLY minorities being interviewed for all these HC positions, when there are plenty of seemingly deserving minority coordinators who would more likely match up credential for credential with the guys who are landing these jobs?This issue always makes me :X
If a "minority" candidate is hired, people celebrate it as if the team/owner just did something that should win them a Nobel Prize. If a "white" candidate is hired, people howl about how Tha Man is keeping "us" (
Maybe, just MAYBE teams are hiring the person that they think is best for the job, irregardless of the color of their skin?!
Until we are COLORBLIND as a society, we'll never achieve our maximum potential as a nation. Being colorblind though HAS to work both ways though........and Americans are NOTORIOUSLY good at coming up with reasons or excuses why they aren't given _________ in life.
The NFL's worst nightmare is a season when 10 new HC openings end up with zero net new minority hires.
boubucarow
Footballguy
It is ridiculus the almost reverse-racism reaction that some possess to the minority coaching problem. Yes, it is a problem that a league that has so many African-American ex-players has relatively few black head coaches and co-ordinators and moreso not enough opportunities for black coaches to elevate themselves to head coaching consideration.Without a doubt, every owner/gm should hire the best man for the job. However, minority candidates have just recently begun to be considered for most head coaching positions. For one to question the hiring of all white head coaches is a question that needs to be asked and the situation still needs to be monitored.Asking the question does not mean that any specific racial prejudice was involved in any of the hiring. But asking the question can lead to a more fair situation for all coaching candidates from head coach to special teams coach in the future. Crenell, Edwards, Denny Green, Lewis, Dungy, and Lovie are all products of a system that hires coaches produced amidst "coaching trees' created by a Walsh or a Bellicheck for example. More minority candidates are becoming "branches" in those trees which will lead to more minority hires. Hopefully, this will come to fruition.But, we are not there yet and racism still exists in this country. Too many Americans will still make decisions that are heavily influenced by racial prejudices even if those decisions are not beneficial to themselves. Why would I think that the football hierarchy would be different until they have proven otherwise as a whole?
Synthesizer
Footballguy
The NFL obviously needs some new rules to fix this problem.
bagger.
The One Play Quiz
The issue is that there isn't a big enough pool to hire from. These WR coaches need to get bumped to assistant level jobs.You can't hire a WR coach to head coach.Hey Derek,I don't think anyone would question the teams right to hire the best guys for the job, but ultimately the question is, are minority coaches being given a fair shot at proving themselves? Why are guys like Jim Caldwell [WR coach], Mike Singletary [DL coach], James Lofton [WR coach] in many cases the ONLY minorities being interviewed for all these HC positions, when there are plenty of seemingly deserving minority coordinators who would more likely match up credential for credential with the guys who are landing these jobs?This issue always makes me :X
If a "minority" candidate is hired, people celebrate it as if the team/owner just did something that should win them a Nobel Prize. If a "white" candidate is hired, people howl about how Tha Man is keeping "us" (
Maybe, just MAYBE teams are hiring the person that they think is best for the job, irregardless of the color of their skin?!
Until we are COLORBLIND as a society, we'll never achieve our maximum potential as a nation. Being colorblind though HAS to work both ways though........and Americans are NOTORIOUSLY good at coming up with reasons or excuses why they aren't given _________ in life.
The NFL's worst nightmare is a season when 10 new HC openings end up with zero net new minority hires.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
AgreedThe issue is that there isn't a big enough pool to hire from. These WR coaches need to get bumped to assistant level jobs.You can't hire a WR coach to head coach.Hey Derek,I don't think anyone would question the teams right to hire the best guys for the job, but ultimately the question is, are minority coaches being given a fair shot at proving themselves? Why are guys like Jim Caldwell [WR coach], Mike Singletary [DL coach], James Lofton [WR coach] in many cases the ONLY minorities being interviewed for all these HC positions, when there are plenty of seemingly deserving minority coordinators who would more likely match up credential for credential with the guys who are landing these jobs?This issue always makes me :X
If a "minority" candidate is hired, people celebrate it as if the team/owner just did something that should win them a Nobel Prize. If a "white" candidate is hired, people howl about how Tha Man is keeping "us" (
Maybe, just MAYBE teams are hiring the person that they think is best for the job, irregardless of the color of their skin?!
Until we are COLORBLIND as a society, we'll never achieve our maximum potential as a nation. Being colorblind though HAS to work both ways though........and Americans are NOTORIOUSLY good at coming up with reasons or excuses why they aren't given _________ in life.
The NFL's worst nightmare is a season when 10 new HC openings end up with zero net new minority hires.
Great White North
Footballguy
I think the NFL should really adress the lack of white talent at the running back and defensive back positions.
That's gotta be the funniest thing I have heard in a while. You make a good point. The reason there is not enough white rb's and db's is because there is simply not enough qualified for the position. Much like the coaching. It's not because of the color of their skin. Only an idiot racist would see it that way. It's because they (as people) are simply not qualified...yet.
I will admit that minorities in the past have not been given a fair shot. That was a shame. More minorities are getting hired for the asst. coaching positions as well as coordinators and they are earning their promotions. However it seems that society wants to make up for our mistakes by filling a quota no matter what the skill of the minority is. Meanwhile other qualified people are not hired simply because they are not a minority. Reverse discrimination, it's as simple as that.
In the NFL, Lovie Smith and Marvin Lewis as well as Dungy are great coaches and have earned where they are by performance and not because they are a minorities. In fact I think they would be insulted if people thought that. They should be.
Jason,Thanks. I'm not saying that there MIGHT not be a problem in certain circumstances! What I get upset with is that everyone immediately jumps to the assumption/conclusion that racism and prejudice is the cause. THAT is what drives me absolutely crazy related to these types of issues......kind of like the occasional individual questioning my own firm's hiring practices (seven employees) when I've never had any "non-white" designers even apply for a job with our company in 6+ years (other than firm owners in India trying to get us to move work off-shore, which I wasn't interested in). Heck, I've only had two women apply for a job in six years as well (hiring one of them), so I must OBVIOUSLY be a "sexist" too.
People try AWFULLY hard to make the world "black" and "white", when in reality, 99% of the world is GRAY. If racism/prejudice is at the heart of hiring issues, then it needs to be stamped out ASAP. What gets my dander up though is everyone labelling situations as being racism/prejudice without any proof whatsoever.It sucks. It really, REALLY sucks. 
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bagger.
The One Play Quiz
it is baffling to me how many people are missing the point.there is (or has been) an inherent bias keeping minorities out of the amount of staffing positions they should be in allowing an ample amount of qualified candidates to work their way up to coordinator positions to be groomed to be a head coach.the racism does not take place because there aren't being minority head coaches hired. we can assume that GMs are hiring the best candidate for the job. the racism takes place because the current system is preventing qualified coaches moving up the coaching ranks to assistant positions to be put into a position to be hired by a GM.the issue is not with hiring enough black coaches, that is the result of the issue. the issue is that there are not enough black coaches available to be put in a position to be hired.
Hell the owner of the Bengals said he would've never hired Marvin Lewis if it wasn't for the new rules mandated by the NFL to interview at least one minority. It's a white owners league, and a white GM league.There's a level of comfort talking to white coaches and I don't think that comfort translates to black coaches all the time. You see it in business, the school yard, etc. . . why wouldn't this translate to the NFL?
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Hey Derek,You make great points and obviously have a passionate view that's personally related to your being a small business owner. Overall I agree with you, but I think it's perfectly reasonable IN THIS CASE to look at the situation and at least ask whether the Rooney Rule is having the desired impact. Regardless of whether you agree/disagree with the Rooney Rule, it exists. Now, in most cases, teams have interviewed six or more candidates. In most of these cases, the minority interview was either a position coach who wasn't considered to have much of a shot in the first place OR a minority coach on the current staff. It's not unreasonable to take a holistic view of this hiring term [10 HC vacancies] and see the potential for a problem.Jason,Thanks. I'm not saying that there MIGHT be a problem in certain circumstances! What I get upset with is that everyone immediately jumps to the assumption/conclusion that racism and prejudice is the cause. THAT is what drives me absolutely crazy related to these types of issues......kind of like the occasional individual questioning my own firm's hiring practices (seven employees) when I've never had any "non-white" designers even apply for a job with our company in 6+ years (other than firm owners in India trying to get us to move work off-shore, which I wasn't interested in). Heck, I've only had two women apply for a job in six years as well (hiring one of them), so I must OBVIOUSLY be a "sexist" too.
People try AWFULLY hard to make the world "black" and "white", when in reality, 99% of the world is GRAY. If racism/prejudice is at the heart of hiring issues, then it needs to be stamped out ASAP. What gets my dander up though is everyone labelling situations as being racism/prejudice without any proof whatsoever.
It sucks. It really, REALLY sucks.
I'm sorry, but when Houston interviews Kippy Brown and Jim Caldwell is interviewed in Minnesota, that just smells bad. Maybe neither owner had implicit designs on circumventing the Rooney Rule, and I personally think Gary Kubiak and Brad Childress were two of the best available candidates, but there's ABSOLUTELY enough in aggregate to think a problem still exists.
delusional
Footballguy
Guess people wont be happy until every coach, assistant, gm, player, water boy is a minorityget off this ####### bull#### for christ sakes
Bagger,Sincere question: if that is the real issue here, then why are all the headlines about no "black" head coaches being hired in the media? Shouldn't the REAL headlines be "why aren't there more "black" assistant coaches and coordinators being hired in the NFL?" Just curious. My guess though is that taking that stance isn't as easy in a "black and white" world.....since there ARE a number of "minority" coordinators and coaches on practically every franchise in the NFL.
bagger.
The One Play Quiz
Yes, that should be the headline, but that doesn't sell newspapers as much I imagine.Bagger,Sincere question: if that is the real issue here, then why are all the headlines about no "black" head coaches being hired in the media? Shouldn't the REAL headlines be "why aren't there more "black" assistant coaches and coordinators being hired in the NFL?" Just curious. My guess though is that taking that stance isn't as easy in a "black and white" world.....since there ARE a number of "minority" coordinators and coaches on practically every franchise in the NFL.
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!Yes, that should be the headline, but that doesn't sell newspapers as much I imagine.Bagger,Sincere question: if that is the real issue here, then why are all the headlines about no "black" head coaches being hired in the media? Shouldn't the REAL headlines be "why aren't there more "black" assistant coaches and coordinators being hired in the NFL?" Just curious. My guess though is that taking that stance isn't as easy in a "black and white" world.....since there ARE a number of "minority" coordinators and coaches on practically every franchise in the NFL.
So, does anyone have a quick run-down on the % of "minority" assistant coaches and coordinators in the NFL? Just curious. That would go a L-O-N-G way towards helping us know the extent of the actual problem that exists.As to Jason's comments, I agree. The Caldwell AND Cotrell interviews smelled awfully "obligatory" to me here in Minnesota. However, if Wilf had already been thinking "Childress" before Tice had even been fired, any "white" candidate (like Saunders) he brought in was likely obligatory as well....to keep the Eagles or anyone else from implying that any potential tampering might have occurred. Is it "fishy" because of racism/prejudice issues....or is it "fishy" because Wilf had his top candidate in mind before Tice was fired? 
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NattyDread
Footballguy
I think Modus is on the right track on this one. People are so quick to wade into the issue of minority coaching hires with ideas like racism and reverse discrimination. I think in many ways, our society has moved past overt racism, but these descriptors have not. These days it's far more likely for hiring decisions both in and outside of the NFL to be influenced by things like comfort level. You here it all of the time with phrases like, 'he was just a good fit for our program.'Sometimes it's just easy to surround yourself with people you're "comfortable" with, and often that translates into white team owners and executives surrounding themselves with other white folks. I don't think it's racism, but it does help explain the lack of opportunities for black coaches and front office personnel, despite their large relative numbers in the player pool. The Rooney rule is just designed help minority candidates get some consideration as hires.
Idiot Boxer
Footballguy
Q: Should the %age of minority coaches in the NFL more closely represent the %age of minorities in society at large or the %age of minorities players in the NFL?
snarfsnarf
Footballguy
Well, black coaches make up 18% of the NFL today so I guess your answer is that it must be closer to the percentage of players in the NFL since they make 12-15% of the overall US population.Should we be upset that a disproportionate amount of white coaches lost their jobs this year?
Wadsworth
Footballguy
Money drives the NFL. And winning is the best way to make money. Years ago there was a similar situation with black QBs. While there was some outside pressure put on the NFL, in the end it was the desire to win that created opportunities for black QBs, and the success of some of those QBs basically solved that problem. For whatever reason the same thing didn't happen with coaching. Years after Doug Williams won the Super Bowl there were still very few black coaches in the NFL. So the league came up with the Rooney Rule and for the most part it's worked. This off season may well end with no minority coaches getting head coahcing jobs but the league is heading in the right direction. The success of Lovie, Tony, Marv, and Denny among others will over time force teams to adjust. Because... please refer to the first line of this post.PS: Have any of you stat maniacs run the records of minority head coaches hired post Rooney rule versus that of white head coaches hired in the same time period?
Bears_Man2
Footballguy
Isn't Herm Edwards a minority??
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