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Why soccer will never be big in the USA....... (1 Viewer)
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Wrigley
Footballguy
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
This isn't a political stance, but the more immigrants that come in, the more popular soccer will become. It will probably be in the top 3 in the next 25 years.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Not if Trump has anything to say about it
As I said you may be right. I'll believe it when I see it though.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
As I've said plenty of times before, I don't give a **** if soccer becomes one whit more popular in the United States. I can watch all the soccer I want right now (and I watch a lot). It makes absolutely no difference to me whether it is more or less popular than basketball or hockey or auto racing. Watch what you like and I'll do the same.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
You don't get more honky than James Collins. Looks like a forgotten Robertson brother from Duck Dynasty.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Fox does a redzone-style show for champions league gamedays called Multimatch90, switching among multiple games, but it doesn't work very well for soccer. I think redzone works well for football because there's really nothing happening for 80-90% of the gametime, so it's nice to just constantly switch between highlights. With soccer, the highlights alone don't tell tell story - you need to see the buildup and get the rhythm of the game to enjoy it.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Who's offended? We are just debating the likelihood of soccer becoming more popular than the other major sports in the USA.
Kafka
Footballguy
Yeah, honkeys was more in reference to fans...but bad analogy, as usual...
roadkill1292
Footballguy
He's no Steven Quinn but he's a treasure.
Big game for James yesterday. An uncharacteristic goal scored and then unfortunately nutmegged for the game-winner.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
I don't know about passing either baseball or basketball... but curious in what way would you, or anybody else, would measure relative positioning for these sports? revenues? salaries? average attendance? tv ratings?
as a long-time soccer guy, I'll be honest- I think the sport is maybe about level with NHL right now, in terms of cultural significance. that's the sport including World Cup and other competitions (europe leagues, etc). MLS vs NHL... NHL still leads in that category. stanley cup, even for those of us who grew up without hockey- still occupies more media time than anything MLS-related. MLS has two trophies... one for winning the league (supporters' shield), and then one for winning the MLS Cup (playoffs). even as a fan, I'm hard-pressed to even know when, what and where these things are happening.
I've heard the same thing about soccer passing the other sports since the 70s. but the last 10 years is hugely different, epsecially in context with the understanding that nobody here played the sport until 40 years ago (en masse). as such, it shouldn't be surprising that that generation that grew up playing now has kids playing, creating a culture for the sport. combine that with a league that is only 20 years old- so only kids 20 and under have actually had a pro league to watch since birth- and an explosion of cable sports providers showing leagues from all over the world... it's only uphill from here, IMO. passing the big 3?
not any time soon. but in the same conversation for sure.
Kafka
Footballguy
B Maverick
Footballguy
Why do you feel a need to defend it so vehemently?
ah ^%%$, which side am I on again?
I am more interested in soccer staying as a viable league in this country and hopefully, some day, putting the USMNT in position to win a WC. I don't think it will be hard to pass Hockey and be in the "Major Sports in the US" coversation. Maybe it already is?
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I'm beginning to think that footy and hockey both are falling behind UFC or whatever it's called. That sport touches something visceral in a certain demographic and the ratings and money involved seem to be getting bigger all the time.I don't know about passing either baseball or basketball... but curious in what way would you, or anybody else, would measure relative positioning for these sports? revenues? salaries? average attendance? tv ratings?
as a long-time soccer guy, I'll be honest- I think the sport is maybe about level with NHL right now, in terms of cultural significance. that's the sport including World Cup and other competitions (europe leagues, etc). MLS vs NHL... NHL still leads in that category. stanley cup, even for those of us who grew up without hockey- still occupies more media time than anything MLS-related. MLS has two trophies... one for winning the league (supporters' shield), and then one for winning the MLS Cup (playoffs). even as a fan, I'm hard-pressed to even know when, what and where these things are happening.
I've heard the same thing about soccer passing the other sports since the 70s. but the last 10 years is hugely different, epsecially in context with the understanding that nobody here played the sport until 40 years ago (en masse). as such, it shouldn't be surprising that that generation that grew up playing now has kids playing, creating a culture for the sport. combine that with a league that is only 20 years old- so only kids 20 and under have actually had a pro league to watch since birth- and an explosion of cable sports providers showing leagues from all over the world... it's only uphill from here, IMO. passing the big 3?
Btw, how's our soccer forum coming along?
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
This type of self-loathing is normally reserved for Man U fans who see Fellaini have a good game. Oh, wait ...
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
People want to take shots at soccer that's fine, but you disparage badminton and it's go time, mister.
B Maverick
Footballguy
Ned
Footballguy
These comments are no different than euros not understanding the intricacies of the NFL when they see an off tackle run as nothing but a neanderthal running into a line of bigger neanderthals.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
mozzy84
Footballguy
Didn't they show the saves as 2 for brazil and 9 for Sweden? is that a lot? During the one of the OT's I thought it said Sweden had 4 shots all game.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Basketball sucks. I saw this WNBA game and dear god was it boring. Why does anyone watch basketball?
Ned
Footballguy
Its easy to see the game in simple terms (i.e. just kicking the ball around with little to no scoring) when you don't understand the game, but you can say the same stuff about American football.
Wow that roided out freak just ran it for 4 yards - a whole 12 feet!
#whoopdeefriggindoo But if I understand how that 4 yard run on 1st and 10 sets up a play action pass on 2nd and 6 that results in another first down as part of a 10 play, 79 yard TD drive, it becomes a little more exciting when you look at the entire game for what it is. That's really no different then when a build up starts from the LCB with a simple through ball to his CM that eventually builds to a series of passes that leads to a goal. To folks that don't watch, it's just a bunch of dorks kicking the ball around, but when you see it for what it really is, it becomes a much better experience. There's a reason its called The Beautiful Game.
Sure, there are times where the soccer ball gets randomly knocked all over the place, but it's no more boring than a run for zero yards and 2 incomplete passes that results in a punt.
The fluidity of soccer is what really draws me in. It's the direct opposite of the broken up flow of the NFL.
mozzy84
Footballguy
So if they boot the ball and it goes over the net or wide they count that as a shot? I am pretty sure they said the keeper had two saves all game.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
That's pretty good work, Ned.
The Gator
Footballguy
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Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
You're not going to get a pro-NFL argument from me. Watching a full game without being able to fast forward is incredibly painful.Its easy to see the game in simple terms (i.e. just kicking the ball around with little to no scoring) when you don't understand the game, but you can say the same stuff about American football.
Wow that roided out freak just ran it for 4 yards - a whole 12 feet!
That's really no different then when a build up starts from the LCB with a simple through ball to his CM that eventually builds to a series of passes that leads to a goal. To folks that don't watch, it's just a bunch of dorks kicking the ball around, but when you see it for what it really is, it becomes a much better experience. There's a reason its called The Beautiful Game.
Sure, there are times where the soccer ball gets randomly knocked all over the place, but it's no more boring than a run for zero yards and 2 incomplete passes that results in a punt.
The fluidity of soccer is what really draws me in. It's the direct opposite of the broken up flow of the NFL.
shader
Footballguy
You can't compare watching the US Men's National Team to watching the NBA. So while yes, soccer has been on TV and has been predicted to get more popular for decades, there's a major difference in national team soccer and club soccer. 10-15 years ago, few cared for club football in this country. Now they do.
What we have right now is far different than what we had in the US ten years ago. I live in Tennessee, likely not a hotbed for soccer. But in our large office, I regularly get in intense EPL discussions between Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man U fans (sorry, still haven't met a City fan yet).
Those discussions didn't exist a decade ago and a big reason is that it likely was quite hard to watch club soccer on TV. Now it's very easy.
Then you have to factor in the MLS and other US leagues. Although I'm not a big MLS fan, the MLS is drawing 21k+ per game on average. That's pretty massive.
There are really 2 disadvantages that soccer has to the NBA, MLB and NFL.
First, the MLS (America's league) is not full of the world's best players. That's a big distinction between it and the other 4 big sports leagues. That brings us to the second disadvantage that soccer has:
The English Premier League, La Liga and the Bundesliga all take place in Europe. That means there are a lot of Saturday and Sunday morning games. Not a big deal if you're a huge soccer fan, but it's not exactly primetime viewing.
Due to the above factors, it's going to be hard to quantify when soccer overtakes the NBA or MLB, for instance. The MLS likely won't overtake either in the next 30 years. But the MLS and European leagues combined? Quite possibly. But then what will that really mean? Americans aren't going to attend many European games, so they'll just be watching it on TV, so it will probably be quantified by TV ratings.
If you really want your eyes opened as to the potential for soccer, look at the Real Madrid - Chelsea friendly at the Big House. It drew 90K and it was a friendly. I think that game will have a big impact. We aren't far from these leagues deciding to play some games over here to take advantage of bigger stadiums and a fresh fan-base.
What we have right now is far different than what we had in the US ten years ago. I live in Tennessee, likely not a hotbed for soccer. But in our large office, I regularly get in intense EPL discussions between Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man U fans (sorry, still haven't met a City fan yet).
Those discussions didn't exist a decade ago and a big reason is that it likely was quite hard to watch club soccer on TV. Now it's very easy.
Then you have to factor in the MLS and other US leagues. Although I'm not a big MLS fan, the MLS is drawing 21k+ per game on average. That's pretty massive.
There are really 2 disadvantages that soccer has to the NBA, MLB and NFL.
First, the MLS (America's league) is not full of the world's best players. That's a big distinction between it and the other 4 big sports leagues. That brings us to the second disadvantage that soccer has:
The English Premier League, La Liga and the Bundesliga all take place in Europe. That means there are a lot of Saturday and Sunday morning games. Not a big deal if you're a huge soccer fan, but it's not exactly primetime viewing.
Due to the above factors, it's going to be hard to quantify when soccer overtakes the NBA or MLB, for instance. The MLS likely won't overtake either in the next 30 years. But the MLS and European leagues combined? Quite possibly. But then what will that really mean? Americans aren't going to attend many European games, so they'll just be watching it on TV, so it will probably be quantified by TV ratings.
If you really want your eyes opened as to the potential for soccer, look at the Real Madrid - Chelsea friendly at the Big House. It drew 90K and it was a friendly. I think that game will have a big impact. We aren't far from these leagues deciding to play some games over here to take advantage of bigger stadiums and a fresh fan-base.
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Ned
Footballguy
I'm not really looking to argue the pros/cons of either sport; they both have their warts. I just don't like hearing the knocks against soccer (that I'm re-falling in love with) that are coming from ignorance (not meant as an attack on you). I enjoy both and don't care who likes what, but I am very excited with where soccer in the US is going.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
You are missing a huge component that will further add to your argument.
Mexican soccer in the US is more popular than both MLS and the EPL.
The Real Chelsea game drew 105k. And it was not even the biggest soccer game in that stadium, which drew 109k a couple of years ago.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
I understand your point. Just saying that even if someone does understand all the intricacies (which I definitely don't for soccer), does not mean it is exciting or entertaining. I know hockey inside/out (played for 30+ years and coach) but find the NHL to be pretty damn boring.
I'm not really looking to argue the pros/cons of either sport; they both have their warts. I just don't like hearing the knocks against soccer (that I'm re-falling in love with) that are coming from ignorance (not meant as an attack on you). I enjoy both and don't care who likes what, but I am very excited with where soccer in the US is going.
shader
Footballguy
In my experience, there are certainly a lot of boring soccer games. I also find that International football is more boring than club football, but other soccer nuts on these boards may not agree with that, it's just a personal opinion. Trust me, I was right where you were for literally 25 years. Thought it was the most boring sport on earth. Now I love it. Hard to explain why, but once you really get into it and understand it, you see the game in a whole new light.
Just as a 45 yard Adrian Peterson run is super exciting to a football fan, a great Cruyff turn and a beautiful pass through two defenders is super exciting to a soccer fan. Neither may ultimately result in points, but they are both fun.
Also, I suppose soccer would be higher scoring if goals counted 7 points like TD's do... Let's face it, football cheats to inflate their scoring numbers and they also have a way to score incremental points (field goals) that hockey and soccer don't have.
In terms of "goals scored", NFL teams score 2.36 TD's a game, or less goals per game than NHL teams.
All that being said, soccer still only averages about 1.4 goals a game by team, so there's no way to argue, soccer has a lot less scoring than the NFL.
That's offset, in my opinion, by the fact that a soccer game takes half as long to watch as an NFL game, and is full of continuous action, while an NFL game has 11 minutes of action and 3 hours of stoppages.
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cstu
Footballguy
This is a really important factor - most Americans don't like watching second-tier athletes. What it will take is for the number of hard core soccer fans to grow enough in the U.S. to compete for the top soccer players in the world. American teams don't necessarily need a Messi, but they do need players who are recognizable on the world stage.
shader
Footballguy
That's a great point. I have no idea how to quantify it all, as soccer has so many different ways to watch the sport, but I'm confident that the popularity is skyrocketing.
shader
Footballguy
I'd imagine that the current MLS path is the correct one. They are growing the game slow and steady and are creating strong fan-bases. If the MLS continues to grow their revenue, one day they'll start landing top-end players in their prime. If that happens, the big money could roll in and all of a sudden the MLS could compete with anyone, because it's got the backing of the richest country in the world.
I'd imagine that's the "best-case scenario" from an MLS point of view.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
I'm not really looking to argue the pros/cons of either sport; they both have their warts. I just don't like hearing the knocks against soccer (that I'm re-falling in love with) that are coming from ignorance (not meant as an attack on you). I enjoy both and don't care who likes what, but I am very excited with where soccer in the US is going.
Also, I can flip on Rugby or an Aussie Rules game and be thoroughly entertained without having a hot clue what the rules are.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Despite my philosophical differences on the exact path MLS needs to take, I actually believe this is a possibility one day, too. My vision of the end product just may be a little different from that of most of my fellow footynerds.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
cstu
Footballguy
Signing players like Toronto's Giovinco is a step in the right direction - guys who are stuck as mid-tier in Europe but will be treated like superstars here.
El Floppo
Footballguy
trying to remember the specifics... but IIRC, he was an up and comer in the top tier in Italy (in and out of the national team, couple of title with juve)- just got offered a lot more cash to play in MLS than he would if had stayed. he could have been also hurt or out of favor with juve helping prompt the move.
but yeah- if the league can consistently put out that kind of money to attract quality players still in their prime... things will obviously trend upwards.
Kafka
Footballguy
He was actually in his prime, but was a misfit in terms of Conte's system. I believe he was brought back from a loan (Empoli) by Juve's Director of Sport, against Conte's wishes. His talent has always been undeniable, & I think Conte's bias is what prevented him from inclusion in this year's Euro '16 Azzuri squad.
CGRdrJoe
Footballguy
Kafka
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I want more comments from the people that don't like soccer. Otherwise it's just soccer nerds.
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