WR D. Mason's Role Diminished? (1 Viewer)

[phillzphan]

WR D. Mason's Role Diminished?

Matt Palmer, Baltimore Examiner - [Full Article]

Earlier in the week, Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome said WR Derrick Mason "has a future with this team." What remains unclear is Mason’s exact role next season. The frustrated receiver will head into his 11th season, when training camp starts in July. Mason caught 68 passes for 750 yards and scored two touchdowns this season, marking his lowest output since 1999. Also his teammate, second-year WR Mark Clayton, came on this season, just missing the 1,000-yard mark, while rookie WR Demetrius Williams became a late-season threat.

Clayton's value = upppp this year. don't wait on him.

 

[H.K.]

Mason as a starter:

2000 ten 63 895 5

2001 ten 73 1128 9

2002 ten 79 1012 5

2003 ten 95 1303 8

2004 ten 96 1168 7

2005 bal 86 1073 3

2006 bal 68 750 2

He was WR36 in PPR last season, Current ADP of 41 in the WSL.

He's only 33, IMHO he represents value. He still has a good year or two left.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Mason as a starter:2000 ten 63 895 5 2001 ten 73 1128 9 2002 ten 79 1012 5 2003 ten 95 1303 8 2004 ten 96 1168 7 2005 bal 86 1073 3 2006 bal 68 750 2 He was WR36 in PPR last season, Current ADP of 41 in the WSL.He's only 33, IMHO he represents value. He still has a good year or two left.

He's now the #2 WR option behind Clayton, and the #3 option in the passing game overall behind Clayton & Heap. Just as unfortunately, he's averaged 2.5 TDs in his 2 seasons with Baltimore. His value has been remaindered.

 

[mlball77]

I think Mason will represent decent value in PPR leagues for another year or two; outside of that his value may be limited.

 

[videoguy505]

I worry about who's throwing the ball. McNair can't last forever. An upgrade at RB could seriously change the Ravens dynamic as well.

 

[gman8343]

Clayton sucks.

This is not a

 

[Phurfur]

Clayton sucks.I'll pass.

Clayton is a #1 WR with big play ability. Depending where he falls in the draft he could be a value pick. He will be a sold Fantasy #2 WR so don't burn your bridges

 

[wannabee]

Clayton sucks.I'll pass.

 

[H.K.]

He's now the #2 WR option behind Clayton, and the #3 option in the passing game overall behind Clayton & Heap. Just as unfortunately, he's averaged 2.5 TDs in his 2 seasons with Baltimore. His value has been remaindered.

Value is relative. If you draft him expecting WR3 numbers, and get him for a decent cost, you're all set.One good thing for Mason - Clayton will draw the #1 CB now, I'll take McNair throwing to his ole buddy against CB2 with the safeties cheating toward Heap any day.

 

[kevthegrad]

I snagged Clayton in my dynasty draft last year hoping he'd overtake Mason so I'm glad to see this happen. A great point earlier in the thread though is what happens at QB? I always feel like McNair is one solid sack away from a deviated septum and career end. Boller isn't exactly making people feel like there's a good safety net in place, but I could be wrong given Boller being able to sit, watch, and learn rather than being thrust in there.

As long as you have a RB threat like Lewis and TE threat like Heap, the WR's in Baltimore are not going to be over-covered so they represent value if they have a half-way decent QB tossing them the ball.

 

[wannabee]

I snagged Clayton in my dynasty draft last year hoping he'd overtake Mason so I'm glad to see this happen. A great point earlier in the thread though is what happens at QB? I always feel like McNair is one solid sack away from a deviated septum and career end. Boller isn't exactly making people feel like there's a good safety net in place, but I could be wrong given Boller being able to sit, watch, and learn rather than being thrust in there.As long as you have a RB threat like Lewis and TE threat like Heap, the WR's in Baltimore are not going to be over-covered so they represent value if they have a half-way decent QB tossing them the ball.

There is a very good chance that Lewis is gone from Baltimore this offseason. He will be cut if his contract is not re-worked. They might cut Lewis and draft a RB like Michael Bush.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

He's now the #2 WR option behind Clayton, and the #3 option in the passing game overall behind Clayton & Heap. Just as unfortunately, he's averaged 2.5 TDs in his 2 seasons with Baltimore. His value has been remaindered.

Value is relative. If you draft him expecting WR3 numbers, and get him for a decent cost, you're all set.One good thing for Mason - Clayton will draw the #1 CB now, I'll take McNair throwing to his ole buddy against CB2 with the safeties cheating toward Heap any day.

If I draft him expecting WR3 numbers, I'm screwed. I wouldn't draft him at all next year, much less expect to start him regularly as my WR3. If he was sitting on the waiver wire on bye week crunch, I'd might spot start him...but he's not worth carrying on your roster to start the season.Those numbers you originally showed throughout Mason's career were when he was in his prime as the #1 option in his offense. Even in his 1st year with the Ravens, he was the #1 option. Since then, he's been passed by Clayton and fallen behind Heap with Demetrius Williams working his way into the picture. And he's not a redzone option at all. The Ravens passing game just isn't prolific enough to support the 3rd option as a fantasy factor. It's 2007 & Derrick Mason sleeps with the fishes...

 

[H.K.]

If I draft him expecting WR3 numbers, I'm screwed. I wouldn't draft him at all next year, much less expect to start him regularly as my WR3. If he was sitting on the waiver wire on bye week crunch, I'd might spot start him...but he's not worth carrying on your roster to start the season.

Those numbers you originally showed throughout Mason's career were when he was in his prime as the #1 option in his offense. Even in his 1st year with the Ravens, he was the #1 option. Since then, he's been passed by Clayton and fallen behind Heap with Demetrius Williams working his way into the picture. And he's not a redzone option at all. The Ravens passing game just isn't prolific enough to support the 3rd option as a fantasy factor.

It's 2007 & Derrick Mason swims with the fishes...

2006 targetsClayton 114

Mason 112

I'll take my chances. A lot of people wrote off Isaac Bruce last year, too...and he's older than Mason.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

If I draft him expecting WR3 numbers, I'm screwed. I wouldn't draft him at all next year, much less expect to start him regularly as my WR3. If he was sitting on the waiver wire on bye week crunch, I'd might spot start him...but he's not worth carrying on your roster to start the season.

Those numbers you originally showed throughout Mason's career were when he was in his prime as the #1 option in his offense. Even in his 1st year with the Ravens, he was the #1 option. Since then, he's been passed by Clayton and fallen behind Heap with Demetrius Williams working his way into the picture. And he's not a redzone option at all. The Ravens passing game just isn't prolific enough to support the 3rd option as a fantasy factor.

It's 2007 & Derrick Mason swims with the fishes...

2006 targetsClayton 114

Mason 112

I'll take my chances. A lot of people wrote off Isaac Bruce last year, too...and he's older than Mason.

Can you break those targets down between 1st half of the season & 2nd half? Clayton clearly moved ahead of him in the 2nd half of the season.Isaac Bruce has also been a better player than Mason...and Bruce's poor '05 production was a direct result of injury. Mason's poor production is natural decline, being phased out of the #1 WR role and not being used anywhere near the endzone. Bruce can stay productive in the #2 role because the Rams offense supports it, and he doesn't have to compete with the TE for production....2 very important factors. You can't say the same about Mason.

 

[DAG]

Even without McNair I see a lot of value and upside with Clayton. If Boller has to play, he has locked in on Clayton in the past, so there's a possibility for a Jeff Blake-like benefit; OK, maybe that's an oxymoron, but what I basically mean is, if Boller can squeeze out a couple hundred yards through the air, I figure Clayton gets a bunch of that production.

 

[Tau837]

2006 targetsClayton 114Mason 112I'll take my chances. A lot of people wrote off Isaac Bruce last year, too...and he's older than Mason.

Can you break those targets down between 1st half of the season & 2nd half? Clayton clearly moved ahead of him in the 2nd half of the season.

Mason's splits:Games 1-8: 55 targets, 31/397/0 receiving Games 9-16: 60 targets, 39/369/2 receivingClayton's splits:Games 1-8: 57 targets, 34/377/2 receivingGames 9-16: 65 targets, 39/635/3 receivingIt is definitely true that Clayton outperformed Mason in the second half.What you are probably thinking of is that Mason only had 16/144/0 receiving in Baltimore's last 5 games, including their playoff game; Clayton had 21/361/2 over that same stretch.

 

[H.K.]

2006 targetsClayton 114Mason 112I'll take my chances. A lot of people wrote off Isaac Bruce last year, too...and he's older than Mason.

Can you break those targets down between 1st half of the season & 2nd half? Clayton clearly moved ahead of him in the 2nd half of the season.

Mason's splits:Games 1-8: 55 targets, 31/397/0 receiving Games 9-16: 60 targets, 39/369/2 receivingClayton's splits:Games 1-8: 57 targets, 34/377/2 receivingGames 9-16: 65 targets, 39/635/3 receivingIt is definitely true that Clayton outperformed Mason in the second half.What you are probably thinking of is that Mason only had 16/144/0 receiving in Baltimore's last 5 games, including their playoff game; Clayton had 21/361/2 over that same stretch.

BTW, I'd rather have Clayton, but think Mason may offer better value.

 

[Tau837]

2006 targetsClayton 114Mason 112I'll take my chances. A lot of people wrote off Isaac Bruce last year, too...and he's older than Mason.

Can you break those targets down between 1st half of the season & 2nd half? Clayton clearly moved ahead of him in the 2nd half of the season.

Mason's splits:Games 1-8: 55 targets, 31/397/0 receiving Games 9-16: 60 targets, 39/369/2 receivingClayton's splits:Games 1-8: 57 targets, 34/377/2 receivingGames 9-16: 65 targets, 39/635/3 receivingIt is definitely true that Clayton outperformed Mason in the second half.What you are probably thinking of is that Mason only had 16/144/0 receiving in Baltimore's last 5 games, including their playoff game; Clayton had 21/361/2 over that same stretch.

BTW, I'd rather have Clayton, but think Mason may offer better value.

Anything is possible, but Mason had only 3 of 17 games with more than 6.8 fantasy points (no PPR). And only 5 of 17 over 5.0 fantasy points. Personally, I'd rather try out WR3 candidates with more upside... worst case is likely to be similar production to Mason's this past season.

 

[H.K.]

Anything is possible, but Mason had only 3 of 17 games with more than 6.8 fantasy points (no PPR). And only 5 of 17 over 5.0 fantasy points. Personally, I'd rather try out WR3 candidates with more upside... worst case is likely to be similar production to Mason's this past season.

Upside includes veterans coming off poor seasons. GB buys like Bruce last year and Galloway the previous that were written off and provided tremendous value and put $$$ in my pocket.Upside is not limited to young talent yet to breakout.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Clayton sucks.I'll pass.

Clayton Doesn't suck, the Raven Offensive system & philosophy sucks.

 

[Koya]

Clayton sucks.I'll pass.

Did you watch any Ravens games?

 

[BassNBrew]

Clayton sucks.I'll pass.

Did you watch any Ravens games?

Does your jaw hurt?

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

2006 targetsClayton 114Mason 112I'll take my chances. A lot of people wrote off Isaac Bruce last year, too...and he's older than Mason.

Can you break those targets down between 1st half of the season & 2nd half? Clayton clearly moved ahead of him in the 2nd half of the season.

Mason's splits:Games 1-8: 55 targets, 31/397/0 receiving Games 9-16: 60 targets, 39/369/2 receivingClayton's splits:Games 1-8: 57 targets, 34/377/2 receivingGames 9-16: 65 targets, 39/635/3 receivingIt is definitely true that Clayton outperformed Mason in the second half.What you are probably thinking of is that Mason only had 16/144/0 receiving in Baltimore's last 5 games, including their playoff game; Clayton had 21/361/2 over that same stretch.

Nice breakdown.I think that Clayton in FF performance will be > Mason going forward.However, the PERCEIVED value of Clayton will be too high, meaning you might have to draft him as a WR3 when he'll perform more as a WR4. That's never good.Now, Mason could be a very solid #2 WR, a la Keyshawn Johnson to Steve Smith (but without the offensive scheme, work with me here). I think Mason may only put up 60-75% of Clayton's numbers, but he can be had much much later in the draft. You could pick up a WR4/5 at WR6 draft position. That's gold right there, and he's one twisted knee away from a 1,000 yard season. At least you know he has a track record of being able to get to that number.Sure the Ravens favor Heap and the ground game, and from a Dynasty perspective Clayton is >>> Mason and the QB comes into play (McNair may not last more than a few years, if that). For redraft, Mason is a good value.

 

[bostonfred]

lol Bass

I would love to have Clayton next year. The problem is, I don't want to spend an early pick on him, and I have a feeling he's going to be one of those guys that inevitably moves up the draft board to the point where he'd have to have a career year to earn back his draft value. No thanks. I think he could break out, I just don't think you should bank on it.

 

[KoolKat]

I think Mason still has the skills, just not the opportunities. That is someone evident through his frustration of not being involved. Clayton reminds me of Lee Evans.

Although this is kind of an Assistant Coach question, I am in a situation that pertains to much of the talk in this topic.

In my dynasty league, we are allowed to carry 18 Players, and my team is relatively deep. I have one spot available, and am going to use that with 1.1. After that, I have the 25th pick, and I know I'll want someone there. However, the only way to use that pick is if I cut either Derrick Mason, Isaac Bruce, or Troy Williamson. I don't want to cut Williamson, since it is a dynasty league, and the third season is generally the breakout year for receivers. Plus he doesn't have Brad Johnson throwing at him. Another option is trading Bruce or Mason to move up to the early 2nd round. Any advice? Thanks in advance.