I started Amari last week and other players on the roster covered for his 2 pointer. Hoping for the same this week to cover for George’s 8 pointer. It’s possible and we have a long way to go. Good luck!Yeah that sucked I’m sure Kupp will go off now
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WR George Pickens, DAL (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter JohnnyU
- Start date
Mike Tomlin enables this sort of behavior by tolerating disengagement. I mentioned this in the game thread. Big Ben has a podcast and he mentioned how GP is hurting the team and in particular RW by not running his routes if he is not getting the ball. He showed a play where GP not running his route led the safety to get an INT. This safety would have been focusing on GP, but saw that GP had stopped playing so focused on the player RW targeted. Maybe RW should not have even thrown that ball, but I got what Big Ben was saying.
Kevrunner
Footballguy
Everyone is calling this a drop but looks like the cornerback just made a great play on the ball. The one over the middle where Pickens jumped and dropped the ball was clearly a horrible drop. Here’s the play that I am referring to that is questionable:
Is this a drop?
Is this a drop?
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
Top of my DND list next year unless he falls to wr 4 territory.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Yep
Dizzy
Footballguy
Drop. He left the ball hanging out there for the defender to get to it.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Why is it always WRs who are divas and malcontents and not other positions? Not talking about anyone holding out for more money.
I don’t get to caught up trying to determine what is a drop. Just put it in the failed to come up with it category.
Either way drops, failing to come down with the ball, etc, etc, are not normally issues for him.
He had a really bad game but I’d don’t share the negative sentiment on him which seems pervasive in this thread now and he sure as hell is not on my DND list.
Boston
Footballguy
Ton of talent but it is very obvious there are maturity issues with no signs they will be improving any time soon...I cannot picture his upcoming contract situation going smoothly...I moved on from him in Dynasty a while ago and I will continue to let other Owners figure out whether he can be counted on.
Kevrunner
Footballguy
Yeah, thanks, for some reason I never considered those drops if the defender makes a good play on the ball, but I was wrong. I found this off an NFL site:
“Drops are "incomplete passes where the receiver SHOULD have caught the pass with ORDINARY effort.”
efactor
Footballguy
Don’t watch a lot of Steeler games but when I do, seems like he is a very self serving type guy. The consummate “million dollar talent, 10 cent head” type of player. He was really bad in a big situation last night.
You probably know this but drops are not an official stat. Different sites will judge it differently but most are pretty lenient to the WR’s. My guess 1-2 of the balls he should have come down with will NOT be ruled as drops.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I thought all of his drops were catchable.
Agree. But trying to make the point that most sites that track or provide drop stats don’t consider failing to come down with a catchable ball as the sole basis for a drop. Things like contact might make them determine while it’s a ball he should have come down with it does not rise to being a drop.
I think that video Kev posted for instance would not be ruled a drop by those who try and track this unofficial stat, at least not by all of them. There is a bit of grey area between a ball you should have come down with a drop.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
No argument there.
That said, Pickens has a knack for making difficult catches look easy, and easy catches look impossible. lol
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Willie Gault
Dizzy
Footballguy
Yes. It gets commented on frequently that it was these issues that prevented him from being an early 1st round pick.
Dizzy
Footballguy
Good question. Feels to me like a lot of this spawned around the time of Michael Irvin, Terrell Owens, Chad Ochocinco, etc. Became the "norm" for a team's WR1 to become the alpha male for some reason. Social media certainly fed into (and rewarded) these acts.
Problem for Pickens is that those guys could back it up. On the field they were all great and contributed to winning football... so the diva acts were tolerated. Unless Pickens can shake the act, or at least park it until he's playing better, he'll go down the Dionte Johnson path.
I'd argue tearing his ACL the spring before his last season was more of an impact then character issues. Not saying he had none, just don't think it was his biggest issue. The fact he was able to play at all his last season, that he'd be able to or would risk his future by trying, is actually pretty shocking and I can't say it matches up with the actions of a selfish player.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Is he taking plays off? Lack of effort?
Have you seen his actions on the field? The fight with the Cowboys DB, the fight with Browns DB, Personal Fouls, Lack of Awareness, Elbow Drop, Body Slam, Lack of Focus, Disengagement, and the drops. Yes, he makes unbelievable catches, but he drops some as well. Has anyone seen him celebrate his team’s success? That also tells a lot about the player.
crushedspirit
Footballguy
The best thing for Pickens is to head to an offensive minded coach for a fresh start. His stock is declining with this coach and system.
The best thing for the Steelers is to let him go somewhere else. Coach cannot contain him and teammates are probably fed up by now.
The best thing for the Steelers is to let him go somewhere else. Coach cannot contain him and teammates are probably fed up by now.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Why would he change on a different team? A zebra takes its stripes wherever it goes
crushedspirit
Footballguy
I'm not convinced he'll change, but this current scenario is not working for him or the team.
NFL on CBS on Instagram: "George Pickens had 3 drops, 1 rec, and 0 yards against Cincy. (🎥: ESPN)"
12K likes, 397 comments - nfloncbs on January 4, 2025: "George Pickens had 3 drops, 1 rec, and 0 yards against Cincy. (🎥: ESPN)".
www.instagram.com
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
How does Pitt always keep ending up with WRs that have these issues?
Dynasty Outlook?
Dynasty Outlook?
There's a big difference between Antonio Brown and George Pickens. They're both divas, they both make very questionable decisions. But for Pickens, he has a small degree of justification because the team has misused him as an offensive weapon for two consecutive years. While it does not excuse his behavior, I'd be frustrated, too, if I was the top offensive threat on a team and got targeted so rarely this year. He should be getting Ja'Marr Chase targets (175 on the season) but got barely 100 this year. AB got 160 consistently. I'll also say that Mike Tomlin has a history of talking the big talk about shutting down bad behavior from his players without following through.
I'm fairly optimistic about Pickens moving forward if he stays with Pittsburgh and I'm off the charts gaga over him on an offensive minded team. As a player, he is special.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
His brain is special alright.
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Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
The difference between Brown and Pickens is that Brown was an elite WR. On the field one of the best of all time. Pickens is mediocre at best. He can't generate separation.
First and most important is that all of those WR's were drafted by the same GM, Kevin Colbert. It's obvious he's had an exceptional eye for identifying WR talent.
Secondly they were willing to take advantage of draft day discounts on a lot of them due to other teams being lower on them due to character concerns. Probably in part because they felt they had the infrastructure in place to handle them.
A lot up in the air with talk ranging from he could get extended to traded. But I think he's a big time talent and barring some type of Diontae Johnson running himself out of the league sitaution I think we've seen his floor the last few years and nothing close to his ceiling.
You're entitled to your opinion. Mine is that Antonio Brown was a very good WR and that George Pickens could be elite if he is just given the chance. Both are head-cases.
Chaka
Footballguy
AB was not "very good" he was dominant. Pickens has a long way to go to hit AB's level.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
All that's been said has been fair, but the truth is even if Pickens was somehow as good as AB (he's not), we'd never know in the current iteration of Tomlin's run first offense. There's just not enough passing volume.
And idk if that's just what he wants to run, or if he moved away from passing in response to his assemblage of middling to awful QBs the last few seasons.
crushedspirit
Footballguy
Oh boy some need to rewatch some old game film. Antonio Brown was absolutely an elite WR who could beat man, press, zone, etc. They guy made 1st team All-pro 4 times, and 2nd team once. The guy was one of the top separators for years and could run everything on the route tree with precision.
Pickens can't separate and needs to live off his ball tracking ability. He needs to learn the route tree and how to beat coverages. He has room to improve, but isn't even in the same universe as AB was.
Pickens can't separate and needs to live off his ball tracking ability. He needs to learn the route tree and how to beat coverages. He has room to improve, but isn't even in the same universe as AB was.
I look at it as a character v. Maturity issue.
More specifically, many young players through the years have to grow into the NFL- the habits, routines, media, team culture, etc… that could be Pickens. These are young people, and the learning curve is not always simple. Many players learn to grow into the league. If he does this, he’ll be a success, as have many others. The talent is clearly there.
Other players have character issues, meaning they are overly selfish and unable to contain their own egos. You don’t often mature if you have underlying issues of putting your own statistics and individual success over the team. This, too, could be Pickens. We simply don’t know yet.
Eventually, these players run themselves out of the league. AB, as the earlier example outlines, despite his prodigious production eventually had such massive character issues that nobody wanted him.
The jury is still out.
AB might have had the hardest work ethic in the entire league.
His 6 year stretch was IMO the best or second best stretch of any WR we have ever seen. The only things similar between him and Pickens is they both were drafted by the Steelers and both times they got a little to a lot of discount to maturity/character/mental concerns.
But...
I put little stock in the complaints people make here about his separation. Plenty of elite WR's don't separate great. AJB, Higgins, Hopkins being some recent examples. He wins in other ways, elite body control being his number one trait. His yards per target is elite level stuff in his career and I think that's a better indicator of his true NFL impact. He's not got a skill set to be some 170 target guy but I think he's been vastly underutilized.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Yea. Pickens apparently shows up late all the time etc. AB's issues also didn't show up until he was established as a future HOFer really. Pickens is nowhere near as good or consistent, but has wasted talent thus far.
Chaka
Footballguy
I think you have a generous definition of "...until the very end...".
brewer
Footballguy
Sorry, that is fair, I meant the very end of his time in Pittsburgh. He was a nightmare after that.
