His mental reps have been just as bad
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WR Jameson Williams, DET (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
Hold the line.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
I knew owning him was going to require patience but dang. It’s been exhausting.
Chaka
Footballguy
But not worse, so....winning!
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Nice moveAug 13th. Exact trade was moving Jameson, Gainwell, Rondale Moore for Dotson, Hurst, and 3rd in 2024When did you pull this off?I sold him in one of my PPR dynasty leagues to get Dotson (added Gainwell and Rondale Moore as throw ins) and I couldn't be happier.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Coach said plenty of film work being set up.
JoeKappBudGrant
Footballguy
Can he bet from the Hospital if the Team is paying the Bill?
pinkstapler
Footballguy
We can explain away/make excuses for all the things that have happened for Williams. But pending his performance over the 2nd half of this season (which I don't have high hopes for considering he'll be 24 games into his career with exactly 1 reception); looking at historical data of WR performance over their first two seasons and how it translates to their future success, his odds of turning into a worthwhile fantasy producer are getting drastically low. I'd guess into the single digit percentage range.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I hear ya. On a historical basis it looks pretty bleak. I think about guys like David Boston, Kenny Britt, Darrius Heyward-Bey, numerous others. Might well have a 10 year career with 3-4 teams and never quite reach what we think his potential should be.
I don’t see anyone on the roster capable of playing so well it keeps Jamo off the field in 2023. He’ll be given every opportunity to succeed or fail.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
For sure, and percentages are what they are for a reason. There's always the outliers on the other side of the coin. I'd say Williams has the profile and skillset to be one. For a while now, it's really been the mindset/attitude that's worried me the most.
Dan Campbell feels to me to have some of that "my guy/team guy" mentality. If Williams rehabs good through the preseason, and shows up with a fire matched with some humility come week 7, I'll have high hopes. If he's posting TikToks of himself throwing bets around Vegas with his boys during his suspension well.... Detroit isn't so starved for talent after adding Gibbs and LaPorta in the draft. I can imagine a world where they have Williams running 9s down the field every play to keep the secondary honest turning his role in the offense into a bit part rather than a featured part. He's certainly capable of more than that though.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Fair points all. No excuse for turning up at a Vegas title fight less than 24 hours after getting suspended. He seems to be willing to do the work to be in phenomenal shape and the talent is obvious, but he doesn't seem to grasp how important the details are for developing his craft. He's got great role models right next to him. Not once has anyone said a discouraging word publicly.
I don't think they'll cut bait anytime soon, as they don't have to make a decision on the 5th year option for another 20.5 months. They're ruthless about cutting lesser talented guys - including Dan Campbell type guys - who are better served getting an injury settlement so they can move on. Dumped Okudah (3rd overall pick) and a very talented D'Andre Swift for Day 3 picks bc they wanted to go in a different direction. They won't get hung up on the sunk cost, his talent or unrealized potential; if he doesn't produce they'll trade him for peanuts if they don't think it's gonna work out.
We're not there yet. They haven't given up on him yet. But he has to produce on the field. None of his money is GTD anymore, he lost that when the suspension got handed down. For now all they can do is prepare tape for him to study and support his physical rehab process. He'll be given every chance to earn the starting job but the ball is squarely in his court. They have literally done so much to support him, they have surrounded him with good mentors, he has coaches who are engaging. They're not trying to shove a square peg in a round hole, Campbell is very much about letting guys be themselves; you're not going to have 53 St Browns, you have to accept each player is different. But at the same time no one player is more important than the team.
It's frustrating for everyone but I hope he gets healthy and gets on the field Week 7. His attitude is fine IMO, he lacks some maturity but the kid loves ball.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
There are many things working against Jamo:
- Only one year of elite production in college
- Rookie year shortened by injury and treated effectively as red-shirt
- Forced to miss the first 6 games of the season (not for a criminal act, mind you, which tends to get punished for fewer games for whatever reason)
- Now missing precious practice and game time to a hamstring injury
As far as his work ethic goes it's been nothing but glowing from what we've heard. He's putting in the work whenever and wherever he can. So it's not for a lack of effort. The gambling thing was his goof-up (regardless how any of us feel about the suspension length), everything else was beyond his control. Bad luck. I'm not hearing anything about him not picking up the offense or looking bad in practice. He still has that elite game-breaking speed you can't coach. Just needs to get on the field and start adding up the positives. If you're in redraft then by all means fade him. For dynasty owners, this is a long term play regardless, just requiring more patience than originally anticipated. And trust me I'm tired of making excuses for him too, but context is needed to properly assess why his stock has fallen.
- Only one year of elite production in college
- Rookie year shortened by injury and treated effectively as red-shirt
- Forced to miss the first 6 games of the season (not for a criminal act, mind you, which tends to get punished for fewer games for whatever reason)
- Now missing precious practice and game time to a hamstring injury
As far as his work ethic goes it's been nothing but glowing from what we've heard. He's putting in the work whenever and wherever he can. So it's not for a lack of effort. The gambling thing was his goof-up (regardless how any of us feel about the suspension length), everything else was beyond his control. Bad luck. I'm not hearing anything about him not picking up the offense or looking bad in practice. He still has that elite game-breaking speed you can't coach. Just needs to get on the field and start adding up the positives. If you're in redraft then by all means fade him. For dynasty owners, this is a long term play regardless, just requiring more patience than originally anticipated. And trust me I'm tired of making excuses for him too, but context is needed to properly assess why his stock has fallen.
The Future Champs
Footballguy
I used to be in a keeper league where we did live drafts, and we had a "Buckethead WR" rule. Every year we picked a buckethead (almost always a WR, like Josh Gordon and Antonio Brown) (but Leveon Bell was the choice one year). During the draft we would put a bucket front and center, and every time you picked someone other than the buckethead you put $ in the bucket. Eventually someone would draft the buckethead, and they'd get the $, but they'd have to start the buckethead every game, except for bye weeks.
Jamo would be the buckethead this year. Most years the buckethead underperformed.
Jamo would be the buckethead this year. Most years the buckethead underperformed.
eighsse2
Footballguy
That is awesome. Is there an exception to the start every game rule, if he isn't playing (injury, etc)?
The Future Champs
Footballguy
No injury exemption, b/c we didn’t want the bucket head manager hoping the bucket head got hurt.
Many years the $ in the bucket exceeded the league fee, and one year a team with no decent keepers took the money, drafted long shots/rookies/injured players, and tanked.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
I get that OSU had Olave and Wilson, but the fact that Williams could only get 15 receptions over 2 years before transferring was always a head scratcher to me. Still, 2021 at Bama was a monster year, and in the SEC. Can't make any real judgements until he actually plays, but nothing but bad vibes so far.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
His freshman year he was behind those two and K.J. Hill plus Marvin Harrison Jr. committed to Ohio State for 2021, and his sophomore year they brought in two 5-star recruits in JSN and Fleming. The writing was on the wall and he made the right move. It really is amazing how stacked that WR group was.
eighsse2
Footballguy
Call me crazy but I say right now is your buy low. From this poitn,
. That's my outlook, anyway. A very slow . Every week that you get closer to his return will be a higher price. But obviously what he can show in his half-season will be the main determinant in price diring the offseason. If you think he won't do much, then that's definitely a good call to wait.
TripItUp
Footballguy
Call me crazy but I say right now is your buy low. From this poitn,
I think he'll need an ARSB injury to do anything meaningful this season from a fantasy perspective. It's difficult for an unproven guy to make an impact midseason unless there aren't players ahead of you on the priority list.
I'm gambling that his owners will be ready to jump ship after this season.
RenegadeGM
Footballguy
Call me crazy but I say right now is your buy low. From this poitn,
I think he'll need an ARSB injury to do anything meaningful this season from a fantasy perspective. It's difficult for an unproven guy to make an impact midseason unless there aren't players ahead of you on the priority list.
I'm gambling that his owners will be ready to jump ship after this season.
I see what you did there...
rockaction
Footballguy
I just went to offer the guy that rosters Jameson Williams a second-round pick and then thought, "No. I don't want to do that. Why blow a second-round pick on a guy who can't get on the field and is hurt when he does?" I also figured the guy would think the second-round pick was an insult, but I still didn't want to take the chance he'd accept the offer.
I feel bad for Detroit, but I wouldn't castigate anybody for cutting bait on this guy now. He's been a total chucklehead so far.
I say that with the caveat that it for sure could turn around and he could become an All-Pro, but the guys that seem to lack the mental makeup to play in the NFL from the jump never seem to come back, get their head straight, and assert themselves as bona fide players. It just doesn't often happen in the years I've been following the sport. It's a chew-'em-up, spit-'em-out league, and lots of guys that seem like they're treading water while they wave to onlookers are actually drowning.
And Jamo is deep in the water with a strong current at this point. It's sad, because they're all so young when it happens. They can't possibly know how it's going to feel when it's their last team calling and last check coming, and yet the last team inevitably calls and the last check inevitably comes.
I feel bad for Detroit, but I wouldn't castigate anybody for cutting bait on this guy now. He's been a total chucklehead so far.
I say that with the caveat that it for sure could turn around and he could become an All-Pro, but the guys that seem to lack the mental makeup to play in the NFL from the jump never seem to come back, get their head straight, and assert themselves as bona fide players. It just doesn't often happen in the years I've been following the sport. It's a chew-'em-up, spit-'em-out league, and lots of guys that seem like they're treading water while they wave to onlookers are actually drowning.
And Jamo is deep in the water with a strong current at this point. It's sad, because they're all so young when it happens. They can't possibly know how it's going to feel when it's their last team calling and last check coming, and yet the last team inevitably calls and the last check inevitably comes.
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Moonlight
Footballguy
A positive from the upcoming suspension is that it will give his hamstring time to heal and avoid the temptation to bring him back too early. The chucklehead part is focused on the betting violation.
There were numerous Lion players and staff members engaged in the betting activity he wasn't the only one like Ridley, who by the way seems to be bouncing back from his year's suspension in good form. The number of people involved suggests the Lions contributed to Williams' wrongful actions by not taking adequate steps to educate their players/staff and by not establishing a culture to discourage betting activity.
That being said he's off to slow start but certainly do not think he is doomed to fail. If it were me I'd take the risk of trading for him for a second. Lions have a lot invested in him and he will be given continued efforts to succeed until he proves otherwise. The concern is whether he has NFL hands and the sample size is too small to decide that yet.
There were numerous Lion players and staff members engaged in the betting activity he wasn't the only one like Ridley, who by the way seems to be bouncing back from his year's suspension in good form. The number of people involved suggests the Lions contributed to Williams' wrongful actions by not taking adequate steps to educate their players/staff and by not establishing a culture to discourage betting activity.
That being said he's off to slow start but certainly do not think he is doomed to fail. If it were me I'd take the risk of trading for him for a second. Lions have a lot invested in him and he will be given continued efforts to succeed until he proves otherwise. The concern is whether he has NFL hands and the sample size is too small to decide that yet.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Was a hot topic around Detroit yesterday and apparently it's a nope.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
We really have no idea what Williams is at this point, or what his future holds. Williams has basically been on the field as a player for only one season (Bama) out of the last 4. Played very little at OSU, very little last season, now missing at least 1/3 of this season.
What I heard on the NFL Network the other day rings true. Raw WRs need polish, detail and lots of reps. Williams so far had not had enough of any.
There are a ton of fast guys who never make it. Right now Williams is in a difficult situation being injured and then having his 6 week suspension start.
I hope he comes out on fire, but that would be a bonus, not expecting it to happen.
He's a great depth piece. I've been drafting him in most leagues. Guy has game breaking talent.
You won't lose your season in the first 6 weeks if you draft him, but he can definitely contribute as a wonderful WR3/FLEX down the stretch run. Love getting him at a discount.
He oozes talent and hasn't disappointed when he's been on the field and that's what matters most, yeah?
You won't lose your season in the first 6 weeks if you draft him, but he can definitely contribute as a wonderful WR3/FLEX down the stretch run. Love getting him at a discount.
He oozes talent and hasn't disappointed when he's been on the field and that's what matters most, yeah?
kutta
Footballguy
When has he been on a pro field and not disappoint?
Funny enough, I didn't realize this guy only has 1 career reception for 40 yards lol.
You're right. This guy may be a turd.
J Giles Band
Footballguy
You didn't know this... but you work for fantasy pros?
Sorry man, but this just struck me odd. No offense, but I wouldn't advertise that.
I just work their Customer Service. Respond to emails in a queue. It's a seasonal gig.
Think stuff like, "Why isn't the Draft Dominator working?" and "Your projections suck and cost me my $1,000 money league."
My primary job is an accountant. I am Enrolled Agent with the IRS but this is the slow time of year until extension season in October. The FantasyPros job is more of a passion project. The pay stinks but I get to see the behind the scenes workings of a large operation.
I'd like to be a contributor with them and would weasel myself into that spot if the opportunity arose. The first step is getting your foot in the door, but if it never evolves beyond a summer job, that's fine too.
As for J Williamson, I might be conflating preseason or college tape with exhibition reps. I didn't own him last year so it's a reasonable blind spot.
His college tape and sub 4.30 forty time are enough for me. Guy was coming off an ACL so I give him a pass. Still shocked he only managed 1 catch last year, so it makes sense I didn't know since his season was largely... forgettable. But the onus is 100% on me.
Deamon
Footballguy
I mean... maybe start with learning his name and THEN learning some stats about him lol
It's a very difficult name to remember.
My brain has a hard time rationalizing that this guy is named after a brand of whiskey.I thought I was playing it safe by abbreviating his first name with the letter "J" but it still didn't work out for me, lol.
Moonlight
Footballguy
Just not set up for him to hit the ground running when he returns. Too inexperienced and raw. Best we can hope is to see improvement as he works himself mentally and physically into being game ready and gains more experience. Hopefully, he can have a positive impact toward the end of the season. Giving up on him right now for the long term wouldn't be a good move.
For local Detroit fans seeing what Torkelson is doing now for the Tiger baseball team is an example of why you dont give up on a talented player early. Torkelson couldn't hit a fast ball down the middle of the plate and last year was sent back to the minors despite being a #1 pick.
Williams needs some continuous practice time, coaching and game time experience to determine if he can be a positive impact player. Christian Watson floundered last year due to injury and had suspect hands and just took off when he was healthy.
Deamon
Footballguy
you're a numbers guy, not a words guy
It's a very difficult name to remember.
I thought I was playing it safe by abbreviating his first name with the letter "J" but it still didn't work out for me, lol.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I could be wrong but I watched some highlights of Williams. Seems like he would thrive on broken plays, when things break down and the QB is out of the pocket and the WRs are freewheeling all over to get open.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Didn’t he have 1 catch in six games or something like that?
How do you know I didn't mean college?
That's right!you're a numbers guy, not a words guy
It's a very difficult name to remember.
I thought I was playing it safe by abbreviating his first name with the letter "J" but it still didn't work out for me, lol.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Hey, I only questioned something that you said in a discussion forum, but to answer your current question - we’re discussing his fantasy value in 2023 and you said “when he’s been on the field” so the assumption should be you were referring to the NFL. Yes, he was very productive in college.
I wasn’t really attacking you in anyway, so I won’t go back and forth. That’s my explanation.
I watch a lot of college/SEC football and rarely have seen anyone run away from defenses like Jameson. He absolutely lit up Georgia in the SEC championship December 2021, the "all-time" UGA D on the way to Bama shocking them. It doesn't take watching many of his clips to know why he was a 1st round guy and as much of a homerun hitter as we'll see.
I just drafted him in two leagues - 12 team non-ppr drafts where I got him in the 13-14th of a 16 round draft. If he does nothing it costs me nothing. I'm happy to hold him through the suspension and even OK if he doesn't do a lot until Week 10 and later. The Detroit O seems perfect for him, and seeing how he he's looked in a domed stadium at Bama, that guy could be a league winner at year's end. Classic late upside pick that could pay huge dividends IMO.
I just drafted him in two leagues - 12 team non-ppr drafts where I got him in the 13-14th of a 16 round draft. If he does nothing it costs me nothing. I'm happy to hold him through the suspension and even OK if he doesn't do a lot until Week 10 and later. The Detroit O seems perfect for him, and seeing how he he's looked in a domed stadium at Bama, that guy could be a league winner at year's end. Classic late upside pick that could pay huge dividends IMO.
Agree with this 100%. The arrow is pointing straight up for this guy. If you're a defensive back who is speed deficient, the last thing you want to do is cover this guy on a go route.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Jameson has been frustrating to own so far - but hes cheap to draft or trade for.....definitely worth a shot. The talent is there
If I had a dime everytime that sentence has been typed in here over the last decade
I suspect it's all just a ploy to motivate tatum bell
Lansdowne
Footballguy
Oh man, that name triggered my fantasy football PTSD
This is a Tatum Bell post, which is actually a Mike Bell post, which is actually a Mike Anderson post, which is actually a Reuben Droughns post, which is actually…
In all seriousness regarding Jamo, exactly how cheap he is depends on the format. He was expected to, and provided, close to nothing his rookie season. So if you got him in a dynasty league (like I did), it cost an IR spot for most of the season, and a first round rookie draft pick. If you got him in redraft, that ended up being a wasted bench spot. It gets harder this season unless your league allows slots for suspended players.
The frustration comes in having to wait a year and a half at this point and hoping the juice is worth the squeeze. It comes (in my case at least) at passing on more productive receivers from that class, as I had believed firmly Jamo had the best career ahead of him. I also underestimated Sun God, who I thought had unsustainable volume from his rookie season but has shown himself to be the real deal. We’ve seen the floor so far and it’s a long way away from the ceiling. But boy that ceiling is high and I hope he gets there and that he’s still on my roster when he does.
