ghostguy123
Footballguy
Please don't do that again.
I just spit out my drink reading that.
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WR Zay Flowers, BAL (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
I just spit out my drink reading that.
fatness
Footballguy
I think Flowers is going to be very good and that Roman (and the lack of competent WR's) had become a large problem with the Ravens' offense.
Willie Mays Hayes
Footballguy
Well you may not look up to him but a young WR is going to look to pickup anything he can from a guy that was once known as a top route runner at the position.
steelcityman
Footballguy
Really at a crossroad in this draft, up at 2.10(rookies and FA), I have Doubs and Breece Hall, best on my board are Jayden Reed, Hyatt and Izzy A. I wont get them with my next pick, but torn over who to take now. No one wants to trade for the pick. Might use the clock for this pick. UGH!
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barackdhouse
Footballguy
we've been talking about this for years - I don't think people grasp how much this offense will change this year
Birdie048
Footballguy
Pre-NFL Draft, I had Flowers WR3 behind JSN & Addison (ahead of QJ). I was hoping to get him at 1.07-1.08 picks I hold. Then, I was very much against Flowers until late 1st due to Balt offense (prior to Todd Monken OC). But after consideration (and discussions with @greenmountaingoat), I agree that the whole offense will be different. > 540 total pass attempts is Conservative.
All the tape on Flowers was the BC Offense ran thru him. He was the only skill player on the offense. Everybody knew it and he still excelled as a weapon due to his ability to get open.
Until recently, I was moving him down 1.10-1.12 range, but "things" are evolving in Baltimore and the display of talent he shows.
Today, IMO, In 1QB PPR, he is worth 1.05-1.07 selection and the whole Balt Offense will be different.
Some Rec for RB's at short-crossing routes for Flowers and his YAC skill will be valuable.
I selected Flowers at pick 1.12 in an ongoing rookie draft (Full IDP, 1 QB, PPR). My debate was between Charbs and Flowers. I was originally at 1.05 and traded back for 1.12 and 2.12. If I stayed at 1.05 I was taking QJ. The draft went:
- Bijan
- Gibbs
- Addison
- JSN
- Miller
- Richardson
- Kincaid
- Young
DanJack Campbell- Johnstone
- Achane
- Flowers (my pick)
- Charbs
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Birdie048
Footballguy
Was that NOS RB Kendre Miller at 1.05 or an IDP? Assume NOS RB and that is a high value to spend on him there.
It was Kendre. The guy wanted his guy and didn't want to risk him making it to 1.12
FWIW he's my third rated rookie RB though if production in 2023 was my goal I would move him down a little.
Figured someone was going to ask about Dan Campbell getting drafted.
Dan.....Jack......does it really matter? hahahaha
I was hoping the bold was about Flowers to make me feel good about trading back and getting him at 1.12........hahahaha
Well let me say I traded 1.6/2.6 for 10/11 in an FFPC one start QB league and drafted Kendre and Zay with both picks so kind of on the same page.
I'm still scratching my head how I got Zay at 2.5 of another FFPC format one QB league. One of those things I had to keep checking to make sure I was not seeing things before making the pick.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I’m in the league with Gally and took QJ just ahead of him at 1.10. Flowers was the other one that I was thinking about there. I had him in my college FF league the past few years, and could see the talent — maybe just a little bit less excited because I’ve seen the variance in numbers that he can put up in a non-prolific passing team, as had to guess week to week with him more than most.
I did take Flowers at 1.11 in a combo devy/rookie. By that point, between him and some of the second-tier devy’s not already rostered — either taking a shot on a guy potentially being a 1st round rookie in a couple of years, or taking a first round rookie.
I did take Flowers at 1.11 in a combo devy/rookie. By that point, between him and some of the second-tier devy’s not already rostered — either taking a shot on a guy potentially being a 1st round rookie in a couple of years, or taking a first round rookie.
Birdie048
Footballguy
I have Kendre Miller as RB3 behind Bijan & Gibbs as well, but 1.05 is early. I would expect him to be available 1.08-1.11 range in 1QB rookie draft.
I don't need real production from him until 2024 (full rebuild)
Now I am worried he won't be there at 1.07 for me! I was toying with the idea of trading down OTC if opportunity strikes.... now I am conflicted!
Flowers has been climbing in last few weeks. KTC has him up 2 spots in last week to 1.07 but up 8 in last Month. So no time to sit back and wait if he is your guy!
Boston
Footballguy
This is not the draft to get cute with...outside of Bijan going #1 I would not assume anything...if you are really sold on a guy I would not play "the value" game because you may get burnt.
titusbramble
Footballguy
Had him at 8 on my overall (SF) board and 3 at the position behind JSN and Addison, he dropped to 11 so moved up and got him, if it works out I can set/forget him, Olave and ARSB for the next few years
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
Risky to trade back from there if he’s really your guy. I’d probably sit otc and see if you can figure out what 1.05 is really after. Then again I like Addison more and totally undecided on QJ vs Flowers.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
50/850-4 for 9.3 ppr may be history for the ravens but seems like a non outlandish number. I’m easily excited .. had my head in a higher cloud
League Champion
Footballguy
Can Lamar support a #1 WR? I'm not so sure this was the best landing spot for Flowers but we'll see. I wouldn't bet on it.
rockaction
Footballguy
That was me. I traded up from the 1.12 to the 1.05 when 1.05 was OTC to get Kendre. In retrospect -- and looking at how the drafts are going -- that is an early pick and I might not have gotten the most value for that pick. It might have behooved me to wait at 1.12 to see if he was still there. But it's an RB-needy league, RBs fly off of the board in the first usually, and I figured RBs would be going off of the board before the 1.12 (Bijan, Gibbs, and Achane indeed went before 1.12).
I'll live with it. I gave up the 2.12 and 1.12 to get the 1.05 to select Miller. I did so for two reasons. One, I had no way of knowing if Miller would get taken at the 1.07, 1.09, 1.10, or 1.11. And the 2.12 and the 1.12 for the 1.05 was good value. It's quite a step up from the 1.12 to the 1.05 for the twenty-fourth pick.
I might have been able to trade into a later slot but there were three reasons I didn't. I had no real asset other than the 2.12 or a future second. So two, it would have likely taken the same asset to select later (and why do that?), and three, Gally (holder of the 1.05) and I have a really good trading relationship in that league where we talk all the time (I mean quite a bit) about our teams and what we want from them.
So you probably already know I did this because I discussed it in a different thread, but if you're wondering about the thought process behind what that guy who took K. Miller at the 1.05 was, that was it. You can read what I think about Miller in the Miller thread. And bostonfred beats me. He took him at 1.04 in one draft, according to him. League Champion also saw him go early, too, if his anecdote was understood properly by me today in a different thread.
Back to Zay.
I have no real opinions about Zay other than size concerns and Lamar concerns. It's why he went 1.12 in our draft, I presume.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
I don't do trade backs to get my guy. wasnt risking losing him when i have him ranked as my #1 wr. my league is completely unpredictable and players go way before/later adp.
aside from that, no one was really moving at all, so i didn't waste the time. i like addison too, but thoughts of their qb in a year or two put me off in the end.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
iirc, and i might be wrong.... he basically did with marquis brown, who finished as a WR2 by like 4-5pts (in PPR) while missing a week.
anyways, believe me when I say Lamar was my BIGGEST issue w flowers. but after much reading, esp on the new OC... I think Lamar is going to be throwing at least 50 more times this season than in his biggest... maybe 100x more. and flowers my #1 ranked wr. so had to pull the trigger.
League Champion
Footballguy
I hope you're right. I love Zay Flowers, my favorite WR in the whole draft but Lamar worries me. Let's hope for good things.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
I see a lot of similarities with Antonio Brown in terms of on the field play. But he's galaxies ahead of AB coming out of college... Which now means little. If he is half of AB in the NFL you got yourself a player.
Can't ever expect AB numbers from a WR. but yes, he has all the physcial tools required to get them.
Can't ever expect AB numbers from a WR. but yes, he has all the physcial tools required to get them.
I do as well. One of the players I saw him comped to the most was Ty Hilton, for what I paid I'd take that as well but we are allowed to dream bigger.
I mentioned up thread I drafted him twice, at 1.11 and 2.5 in standard one QB leagues. The 1.11 is meh to me, had other plans for the pick but did not work out but that 2.5 has me stoked .That was my most needy WR team meeting great value. How good was the value? This is a private league with FFPC rules/players so it did not count in the 649 actual FFPC dynasty leagues that had rookie drafts and in those 649 leagues the latest he went was 2.4. I won! I'm not a big value hunter but must admit sure do love it when need meets value.
I'm not able to get as high on Flowers as you seem to be, due to Lamar, but I sure hope you are right.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
If you look earlier, I almost crashed completely on Zay because of Lamar. My heart sank on draft day. But I had time to sit back and look at the big picture and came to my senses.
Insane you got him at 2.5. Absolutely insane, I have no idea how that could ever happen in any league.... But damn.
I took him happily at 1.04 as I believe in the talent that much. And I believe in the OC. I just need to start believing in Lamar
Insane you got him at 2.5. Absolutely insane, I have no idea how that could ever happen in any league.... But damn.
I took him happily at 1.04 as I believe in the talent that much. And I believe in the OC. I just need to start believing in Lamar
Birdie048
Footballguy
I did the same ... I had him as WR3 but felt the bottom fall out when Ravens called his name. I have had good discussions with a few but especially @greenmountaingoat about Flowers. Todd Monken could be a lightening rod for OC in Balt and capitalize on Flowers skill set like he did in Georgia for that 32 yo College QB 9th year senior
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Takeaways for Most Intriguing Rookies from NFL Team Minicamps
Ravens Cater Offense to WR Zay Flowers
...- New offensive coordinator Todd Monken is expected to open up the offense and make it more explosive. For that to happen, the Ravens needed to bolster their wide receivers corps. They did with the additions of Odell Beckham Jr. and this year's 22nd overall draft pick, Zay Flowers.
"I think whenever you acquire talent, you then assess where can you put those players in the best position to showcase that talent," Monken said, per Adam Schultz of Ravens Country. "If you have a space player like Zay [Flowers], you have to get creative in ways to get him the ball and showcase that."...
Go to the link for the full read.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
It's not as if Flowers is without warts. His size is a concern and the Ravens threw a lot more than normal 2 seasons ago because of RB injuries and RBs usually don't fare well their first year back from ACL+. I can see Dobbins having a great year this year. Besides, whoever the WR on that team is Andrews is their #1. That isn't going to change anytime soon IMO. Also Bateman is healthy and could have a larger slice.
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Soulfly3
Footballguy
The thing with Flowers, is I truly don't see many warts (which is why he was my WR1). Size is starting to become less of an issue for me in recent years, whereas it used to be a big factor.
Again, I know full well I'm putting a LOT of stock into their new OC, and the plan to be throwing a lot more. I can't help but see OC + Odell + 1st rnd on WR as a telltale sign.
But only time will tell.
And yes, Andrews will 99% be target #1.
nirad3
Footballguy
Got this guy at 2.01 in a 12-team superflex and feel pretty good about it. While I'm not sure he profiles as a true #1 for a team, I don't think Rashod Bateman is either. So perhaps these guys will kinda split that duty along with Mark Andrews? Either way, I feel he's got some upside especially considering the leap that passing offense is set to take.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Is it?
I think the NFL has been shifting to smaller WRs the last few years.
Chaka
Footballguy
IDK I haven't done a deep dive into this or anything but of the top 10 WRs in receptions, yards or TDs only DeVonta Smith weighs less than Flowers (170 lbs) and only Tyreek & Waddle are the same height (5' 10"). The best guys seem to be closer to 6' 0" & 195 lbs (ish), it may not seem like much of a distinction from 5' 10" & 172 lbs but it is a game of inches.
But WTFDIK?
Soulfly3
Footballguy
coming into the draft? INTO?
I'd love ot hear your side of this one... He was comfortably my WR1 out of college
Chaka
Footballguy
He's very slight of frame and played on a terrible team against mediocre opposition. He was contained by the one good team he faced (Clemson). He had no competition for targets and an meh QB who force fed him the ball. He's a year older, at least, than the other first round WRs and he didn't do much prior to his senior season with the same lack of competition for targets.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Terrible team, correct. Catching passes from guys named jurkovec and morehead. They combined for 2900yds and 21TDs. Zay responsible for 1100 and 12 of those.
As for v Clemson, he went 8/75 in that game. That's not "bottled". Even less so when the QBs threw for 210yds total, 0TDs on 42 attempts.
Anyways, you gave your points and I disagree w them. We'll see how he turns out. Lamar his biggest problem, imo.
TripItUp
Footballguy
Not a lot of guy's with Zay's frame have reached elite WR territory.
Tyreke is 5 10 191(bigger than Zay) and is considered an outlier by most...not to mention he had a guy named Mahomes passing to him.
Not saying it can't happen, I am saying the odds are stacked against him.
Tyreke is 5 10 191(bigger than Zay) and is considered an outlier by most...not to mention he had a guy named Mahomes passing to him.
Not saying it can't happen, I am saying the odds are stacked against him.
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