George Jefferson Airplane
Footballguy
Any good places to get show discounts?
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Vegas (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter flapgreen
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BillyBarooo
Footballguy
Surely a FBG of your (wallet) girth can bring the au pair? Or at least the ol' bring the babysitter/family friend and tell them they will have to watch the kids for x # of nights
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17seconds
root of all aliai
Saw The Go-Gos at Mandalay Bay pool one year. They setup the stage in the middle of the wave pool so you can get close to the stage by going in the water or just stand on the beach.
70/30 female to male ratio. was good
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Yeah, that's why I said he did it right. Note it was a business trip for his wife though. So they had a compelling reason to be ther. That dynamic sort of forced the common sense on them too as she was occuppied by day. Most parents aren't this well behaved.
Anyway, take your wife and kids to Hawaii not Vegas. Better scenery, better pools, better daycares (awesome btw), way more romantic and your not exposing the little ones to so much secondary sin.
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Insoxicated
All strip clubs will have FREE limo pickup.... Do Rhino IMO. Call them well in advance and explain when/where you want to be picked up. Limo will come get you and you just tip the guy. Be sure and specify you want cover included as well... they will comply.
WHY?
Taxi's have negotiated insane vigs for everyone they bring.... I've heard it's $75-100 a head. Not sure if that's true. Taxis will agressively steer you to whoever is paying them the biggest vig. By bypassing that, the strip club actually comes out ahead by sending a driver to get you... and will USUALLY allow you in (through a back limo-entrance) without cover since they're not having to recoup the vig.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
You know who else had a nice hotel? Hitler!kutta said:
Bogart
Footballguy
Bonfire
Footballguy
I am probably telling you that water is indeed wet, but be aware the prices in these clubs are outrageous compared to lots of other parts of the country. If you are trying to really watch the bottom line I suggest pulling a chair up to the dance floor and try and look interested only in dancers on stage vs. ones prowling the crowd, as its the best (o)(o)/$ ratio IMO. Sprinkle in lab dances on the floor, never in the private rooms. Again, this is only if you are worried about spending a ton.
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Insoxicated
$100 gets you 15 mins / 3 songs in back I believe (from what the bachelor said when we sent him back).
I believe $20 is a tame lap dance on the chair in the main room.
Here in memphis it's $40/song for bikini dances which is ridiculous... that was "fair" when it was full nude and wild as hell but the pricing hasn't caught up to the laws... hence the clubs going from legendary status here in Platinum Plus heyday, to crap.
There are usually mandatory drink purchases and such in the back as well... though I've never been in the back in Vegas.
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Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
I can't even goto a strip club anymore without thinking about how great the early aught's were at Platinum plus... and now a lap dance.. just isn't any fun anymore.
GB the purple church, the greatest strip club i've ever been in
Wrigley
Footballguy
I'll high five you as we pass. I'll be the guy with the smoking hot wifeChecking out Monday morning
Osaurus
Footballguy
I will look out for you.I'll high five you as we pass. I'll be the guy with the smoking hot wifeChecking out Monday morning
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Insoxicated
Dan Lambskin
Footballguy
DO NOT go to the Glitter Gulch in Downtown Vegas. Scammed our bachelor
We sent him back with 1 girl...another girl asked if we wanted her to join him...told her get lost. She went anyway and he assumed it was taken care of then at the end they said he owed $300. We left immediately
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
well Bogart did ask for the vegas strip club experience.
Bogart
Footballguy
Solid point. At this point, Glitter Gulch might not be a bad idea. The groom to be is not the most modern man. I had to remind him to pack more than cargo shorts and graphic tee shirts on this trip. I have a feeling half the night I'm pretty much going to be:
The other half:
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Insoxicated
One of my good buddies wanted to do his bachelor party in Nashville. So we booked some suites at the Opry Hotel and arranged for transportation for bar hopping and whatnot. Everyone was talking about doing a nice dinner to kick off the evening as well. End of the night was going to be a Strip Club stop (turned out to be a mistake in Nashville).The groom to be is not the most modern man. I had to remind him to pack more than cargo shorts and graphic tee shirts on this trip. I have a feeling half the night I'm pretty much going to be:
The other half:
As the evening is getting ready to launch, a bunch of the guys are pre-gaming in one of the suites discussing the evening's plan. The groom walks in wearing a Tommy Pullmyfinger" Beavis and Butthead T-shirt, cago shorts, and Tevas. We immediately roar into a mix of laughter and NOOOO!
I whipped out a spare shirt and another guy had a spare pare of acceptable shoes. The groom THANKFULLY brought a decent pair of jeans... and we were able to get the kid respectable before heading out.
Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
I'm not sure what you mean by "it doesn't help to add come bets". Adding Come bets increases volatility, especially if you have a limited bankroll. It can be a boring roll if you just have the Pass Line (with Odds) on this sequence: 6 (point), 5, 5, 8, 5, 9, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10, 8, 7. Some guys (I'm one of them) would rather throw-out a couple of Come bets (with Odds) to increase their action without eroding their odds against the house. While the 1.41% house edge remains the same, the volatility increases because a 7 wipes the board clean. It's the difference between a $5+Odds loss and 3 $5+Odds losses with one roll of the dice.
Interestingly, increasing Odds doesn't actually impact your EV. $5 on the Pass line has an expected return of $4.9295. Adding $20 in Odds doesn't change that, since the expected return on that $20 is $20. It decreases the house edge on the overall bet, but you're increasing the overall bet.
Don't get me wrong, I would never consider not betting the Odds because at that level of the bet, your odds of losing the Pass Line are actually far greater than 1.41%. Best case scenario, you have 5 winners and 6 losers, or a 45.45% chance of winning, for an expected return of $4.5454, which is a greater house edge than the initial Pass Line bet because you've eliminated the 8/36 winners vs. 4/36 losers on that come-out roll.
Help me understand the math there. I've seen those same charts on what the Odds bets do to the house edge, but I've always struggled with their accuracy because the Odds aren't wagered at the outset of the Pass/Don't Pass wager. It's the same phenomenon on both bets, but let me try to explain on the "Don't" bets, which is where I really struggle conceptually with guys who stack-up Odds there.Yes, more odds = spreading that house edge thinner across the bets.
Passline = 1.41%
1x Odds = 0.85%
2x Odds = 0.57%
3x Odds = 0.47%
Playing full 3/4/5x Odds = 0.37%
Don't Pass = 1.36%
1x Odds = 0.68%
2x Odds = 0.46%
3x Odds = 0.34%
Playing full 3/4/5x Odds = 0.27%
MOST places in Vegas are 3/4/5x Odds max, though others will allow more. Just understand that your volatility and risk of ruin increase with the scale of each bet size. If you're taking an average of 4x odds on your passline bets, that's putting you at an average bet size of $25/roll (not counting the wins/losses on the comeout, obviously.
Agreed re: edge advantage on Don't pass over Pass is so small that it's not worth losing the camaraderie factor of playing with the table (which is half the fun of Craps).
NOTE: Most casinos will rate your play NOT including odds bets, since there is no THEO on those... so if you're a rewards player and care about that, don't be surprised if they're not throwing suites at you when you're playing 100x odds on your $5 bets
You wager $10 on the "Don't Pass" line. You lose with a 7 (6/36) and 11 (2/36) for 8/36 losers. You win with a 2 (1/36) and a 3 (2/36) for 3/36 winners. Eliminating all non-win and non-loss outcomes (dubious I know because only the 12 is a true non-event, but I'm not trying to be precise just convey the concept I've wrestled with), you have a~ 72.73% chance of losing your $10 and a ~27.27% chance of winning $10, for an expected return of $5.454 -- horrible on a $10 risk. Those are not good odds, but the 24/36 combos that give you a Point help offset that and become wagers with a +EV.
Assume a point of either 6 or 8. Now that Don't Pass bet has a +EV -- 6/36 winners, 5/36 losers, or a 54.54% chance of winning. Eliminating all non-win/non-loss outcomes (this is not dubious as those are true non-events), the expected return on that $10 wager at that point is $10.9045. The expected return for a point of 5 or 9 at $10 is $12. The expected return for a point of 4 or 10 is $13.334.
So aren't you actually reducing YOUR advantage as a percentage of money at risk with Odds on a Don't Pass bet? It seems to me that loading-up on Odds (a wager with no house or player edge) erodes your edge at that point and increases your volatility.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
After the come out roll, yes.
But it is a separate bet with no house edge, which is how I would likely view it.
Those odds you are looking at represent the odds before that first roll. The odds of things change after that, but if you want to look at it the way you asked, then you will just never take the odds.
palmersteel
Footballguy
^^ this. Plus rhino will hook you up with 100-200 bottle service pre 7pm. Best deal in the SC arena IMO
Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
But from a mathematical standpoint, there is only 1 way to look at it. I mean, it's a question that has an answer. I can't think of any time I would take the opportunity given to me by a positive-return bet to wager a ton of money on a no-edge bet.
I never bet the Don't. Ever. So this has no real-world application to me beyond the math. I do think the phenomenon exists with the Pass/Come wagers, but in the reverse -- there is a larger house edge on those bets once the point is established.
No. 16
Footballguy
So no one ever puts place bets on the numbers?
I often like to bet pass line, full odds and then place a unit on 6/8 and if bank roll allows 4/10 in addition to whatever the point is. Usually 6/8 I'll keep the first time those hit. If I have the 4 and 10 the first time they hit I buy them and start collecting if they hit again. If the point hits early then the next roll I'm pressing all my wagers until I can rack $25 chips for a bit.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
then why even make a bet in the first place?
Your initial bet will have a house advantage, while the odds bet does not.
To me, the come out roll allows me to bet a small amount and then bet much larger on the odds bet with a zero house edge. In a sense just using the come out roll to set up the odds bet.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
Last time I played craps there was a 10 dollar minimum and they allow up to 100x odds.
Depending on how high a roller you wanna be at the time, throwing 10 on the dont-pass allows you to bet 100 or 200 or so on the odds if you choose to.
That advantage you have on that 10 bucks is fine and all, but really the point of that 10 bucks is to allow you to bet much more on the odds, so giving up that edge you have on the 10 bucks is well worth it. Again, otherwise, why make the initial bet that has a house edge, ya know?
Depending on how high a roller you wanna be at the time, throwing 10 on the dont-pass allows you to bet 100 or 200 or so on the odds if you choose to.
That advantage you have on that 10 bucks is fine and all, but really the point of that 10 bucks is to allow you to bet much more on the odds, so giving up that edge you have on the 10 bucks is well worth it. Again, otherwise, why make the initial bet that has a house edge, ya know?
Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
If we don't care about the math, we should just bet the Hardways, Big 6/8, Red 7, and Hop Bets -- to hell with the edge. If it's just the action that leads you to bet the Odds on your Don't bets (as I noted above, entertainment is a big part of gambling) then why not bet with the table? The argument I've also heard from guys betting the Don't is that it has better odds than the Do -- fair enough, 1.36% house edge vs. 1.41% house edge overall. But if you're going to bet the Odds, it seems like the actual house edge on the Don't is going to be larger than the Do.
Regardless, I didn't ask for someone to set me straight about opinions on how I bet based on the math as I understand it to be. I asked for someone to help me with the math because my analysis differs from the numbers I've read pretty much everywhere.
Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
I'll place the 6 and/or 8 when I'm trying to slow the bleed, because the edge is almost the same as the Pass/Come rolls. On a $10 table, I can place both for $24 vs. $25 ($10 +$15 odds) for a single number on the Come line. If I hit a couple, I might use those winnings to make a Come bet. Placing 4/10 is a pretty big house edge -- 6.67%. You should buy them instead (4.76% house edge).
ghostguy123
Footballguy
So you are thinking the house edge on the PASS line should be lower than for the DONT PASS then?
Before the initial roll there is a slightly better house edge on the DONT PASS, correct? Placing an odds bet after the come out roll doesnt change that.
However, you are looking at the math from when the point is made on a DONT PASS bet. Yes, the math changes at that point. Yes, you are slightly lowering that edge you have by placing the odds bet, but you are still making a bet with the best odds in the house, which is NO house edge on the odds.
That bet also allow you to bet a much much higher amount on a bet that has no house edge.
I can't help you with this math using equations or anything, but I can't agree with your thought that the house edge should be HIGHER on the DONT PASS when betting odds (if that is what you are saying).
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I definitely get the though thought process of "why bet an odds bet on this 4 when I already have money on DONT PASS, and a 7 is way more likely than a 4".
It's just a separate bet at that point.
It's just a separate bet at that point.
Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
I get that it's a separate wager, but I venture that almost no one thinks of it that way while playing.
I also get that in either situation, the Odds wagers don't change the expected return -- a wager of x on y that pays exactly the odds of y occurring has an expected return of x. If I walk up to the table and bet $10 on Don't Pass, my expected loss is $0.136. If I walk up to the table and bet $10 on Pass, my expected loss of $0.141. That doesn't change if I bet $0 on the Odds or if I bet $1000 on the Odds. That's over the long, long, long haul of course, but that's the math.
Conceptually, however, I struggle with understanding the dynamic of simply treating the house edge for an Odds wager as if that Odds wager (at a 0 house edge) is with the Pass/Don't wager throughout the entire bet -- it isn't.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I hear ya. I don't play the DONT PASS much either, and when I do I don't put down any odds (i have but rare).
I am not sure if I don't play odds there because I feel good about my bet winning after the come out roll with the advantage you mentioned, or if I don't want to piss off the table somehow. Always strange to see everyone all sad while that one guy over on the side gets some chips sent his way.
And yes, those house edge numbers are based on the edge before the come out roll. Things do change once some info is known, sorta like the odds change based on the cards shown in blackjack. Do you double down when you have 10 and the dealer has a 6 showing? How bout when the dealer has a face card showing?
But conceptually, putting odds on the dont pass isn't really lowering your edge any. You still get that edge on your initial bet, but now you are just adding another bet with no house edge. Your % edge will decrease with the total wager with the addition of the odds, but that % edge is still there on that initial bet. The odds bet does nothing to your original bet. Just the way I look at it.
Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
Always, but that's jumping at the chance to increase a wager once you have now shifted from a -EV game to a +EV game. If they would allow me to double my even-money Don't Pass bet once the point was set I would jump at that chance, but that's not what the Odds bet is.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
The odds bets is the same whether your initial bet is with pass or dontpass.
I view it as a separate bet. That's just how we differ on that.
That, and I use the come out roll to bet real small (ideally I can find a $5 table) and then use the odds bet to throw down much more.
I mean, if you bet 5 bucks on dontpass, are you REALLY going to let that keep you from throwing down 100-200 on the odds simply because that 5 dollar wager looks real good right now?
Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
No. I bet it on the Odds on my Pass bet. Wagering $200 to win $100 on a 4/10 doesn't appeal to me even if it's a "fair" payout.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Fair enough.
And I don't bet on pass or dontpass unless I am betting small and then go 5-10x odds. It just sucks when the lowest table minimum is 15 or more. I prefer not to throw out hundreds per bet.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
How bout this for a stupid example.
Let's say the odds paid paid you SLIGHTLY more than the actual odds.
Say you bet 100 on the come out roll on dontpass, and it is a 4. Let's say the odds on 4 paid out 2.1-1 for this example.
Would you still opt to not put down an odds bet because it lowers your vig?
Let's say the odds paid paid you SLIGHTLY more than the actual odds.
Say you bet 100 on the come out roll on dontpass, and it is a 4. Let's say the odds on 4 paid out 2.1-1 for this example.
Would you still opt to not put down an odds bet because it lowers your vig?
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Just a heads up for anybody that uses hotwire... If you get the prompt at the top that says "hurry the last person got The Palazzo" it is not always correct and in fact can state a hotel that is impossible based on the amenities listed. So just ignore that prompt and focus only on the amenities.
Headed out this weekend. Staying at the Venetian. Looking for restaurant recommendations, breakfast, lunch or dinner. Read through everything since December in this thead. Didn't see much other than Border Grill being mentioned. Unlikely to eat at Mix or Bouchon as we have in the past. Food was great, but there is so much Vegas has to offer prefer to get to new places.
dhockster
Footballguy
I recommend Cut between the Venetian and the Palazzo. Wolfgang Puck's Steakhouse. Awesome steaks, Great music (classic rock), Knowledgeable wait staff (who all dress like managers). Also the Pretzel bread is awesome. Can get a bit pricey, but to me, it has been worth it.Also at the Palazzo is Sushi Samba which is a good fusion sushi place.
I have never eaten there, but Mon Ami Gabi at Paris always seems to get good reviews in this thread.
Balco
Footballguy
I liked Botero for dinner at the Wynn. I also love Hash House for pancakes. I think it's in the linq or quad (used to be imperial palace)
Ah yes, Mon Ami Gabi is the one place we will definitely be going back to. I'm a big fan of the patio in the late morning.
Thanks for the Cut suggestion. Before I started reading reviews I was thinking Carnevino over Cut and Delmonico Steakhouse (of those located in/around Venetian), but after researching I am leaning towards Cut. I guess I should also mention we have eaten at Gordon Ramsey's Steak as well. Expensive, but was great and could end up back there, but there are too many other places to try.
5Rings
Lurker
Plus there is the outdoor bar that you can sit at as well. It's been our go to a few times.
