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I have to say this is something that I like about the Seahawks under coach Carroll. He believes in competition across all positions on his team. He doesn't care so much about the size of a guys paycheck when determining who's going to play. I think the evidence clearly shows he plays the best players regardless of what perceptions might be.'Touchdown There said:
Maybe but Wilson has almost as much NFL game competition as Flynn.I wasn't impressed with Flynn against the Pats but he looked great last year. Still it is just one game.
Pete doesn't seem to care about how mucch money a guy makes and 8mill a year isn't that much........8mill is all alex smith could extort drom us so its low low end watch your ### starter money
It's on. Wilson snatches the job and never looks back. This guy is a QB.
A few weeks ago, you were calling Flynn a top 10 dynasty QB. Has drafting Wilson really changed things that much, or were you just overvaluing the home team guys?
Fishing? Not you.. I'd have never guessed'Sabertooth said:
They are both top ten guys. And Tarvaris is a top 20 guy. That's how amazing the Seahawks are!
Hawks r good but I think you are overreacting a bit
Can you give some examples of highly paid guys that were benched in favor of upstarts for us not in the Pacific Northwest? I'm not doubting you but this seems like a discussion worthy topic to those of us looking for sleepers in 2qb leagues.
With you I generally just disagree.
tell me about it...
I think your question has a flaw in it. Who's "highly paid"?Better question: Which QBs in the NFL are currently "highly paid"? After we have a list we can objectively find a number that counts as highly paid so we can compare Flynn's contract to those that you deem as worthy of being highly paid. I think if we do some analysis we'll come to the conclusion that Flynn isn't "highly paid". Seattle was patient in signing Flynn and didn't overpay IMO. I think if you look at the number that has the most meaning (guaranteed money - If I recall correctly its only $10 million) you'll find that Seattle can get out of the Flynn contract with minimal cap damage, just like I expect them to do this fall with Tavaris Jackson. As a Seattle fan, I'm hopeful that Flynn or Wilson will be a solid QB. I think Jackson has some great physical tools, but lacks the ability to anticipate throws. Jackson has to see the open man before he will let it fly. Can Flynn or Wilson make throws before a WR comes out of a break? We'll see...
Its nothing personal. I just think there are several "sacred cows" that need to be challenged. Nothing is black and white in the NFL. It isn't like baseball at all. And people seem to react to that. Sometimes I get carried away but usually it starts with challenging accepted notions.
Good point on Flynn not being highly paid. But what makes you think Carroll is going to have an open competition. He may have paid lip service to that but we see coaches do that all the time. Has he actually done it at different positions?
Done that specific thing before? How many times has this exact scenario presented itself? That said, yes, he has benched an assumed starter in favor of a rookie. Three years ago LB Aaron Curry was billed as the safest pick in the NFL draft. After an up and down rookie season Curry was to be a fixture in the Seattle defense. It was assumed that Curry would improve and be a star. That didn't stop Seattle from quickly yanking Curry and installing rookie third round pick LB KJ Wright into the starting lineup. Curry was soon after traded to the Raiders.Since Carroll has come to Seattle he has been very straight forward in letting his players know that the better player was going to start and play. To his credit he has kept his word. Players that produce play. Did anyone expect rookie free agent WR Doug Baldwin to lead the team in catches and yards last season? Carroll has shown more than once that he's good with starting rookies and I feel strongly that this is paying dividends. CB Richard Sherman? OG John Moffitt? RT James Carpenter? Yes, four of Seattle's first five picks in last years draft all started last year in addition to Baldwin. By the way, Sherman is the real deal at CB. I think he's going to be a star for years to come. As far as lip service goes, Carroll was very straight forward last year when QB Tavaris Jackson was signed in naming him the starter right away. There was no talk of competition between Jackson and Whitehurst. I think people assumed it would be an open competition, but Carroll never wavered in saying that Jackson was his starter.I understand that the QB position is different than others, but while in Seattle Carroll doesn't have a track record of saying one thing and doing another. To this point he has been true to his word when talking to the media. As a fan who follows the team closely its been a positive to know your coach doesn't deal in typical coach-speak. The players in Seattle hear it as well, and more importantly see it in his actions.
Good posting, that's what I was looking for. Most people don't know the backstory on stuff like that, just the high points.
unchesticket:
Yes he has.
I get the comparison, stats wise, but watching them play there is a clear difference in arm strength, throwing accuracy, and (for what it's worth) straight-line speed.
Many scouting reports and analysts have said that if Wilson was just a bit taller that he would have been a top 10 pick this year. Wilson is good or great at EVERYTHING, but just does not have the prototypical height. The skeptics point to the height as if that is what will hold him back in the NFL. The optimists point to the fact that although Wilson is short for a QB, that he has been sucessful at every level so why will that all of a sudden change? His height issue really seems to be overblown in my opinion and I think many people have the cause and effect backwards. People assume that since there are not any starting QBs over 6 feet that means that QBs under 6 feet just don't do well in the NFL. My opinion (and some others) is that the reason there are not starters over 6 feet is because there simply aren't many QBs under 6 feet who get drafted to the NFL. Is there a higher "bust" rate on QBs under 6 feet who get drafted versus other heights? I doubt it. Drew Brees and Mike Vick are both 6 feet tall. I don't quite understand why that one inch of height is turning out to be such a major concern. Wilson played with a very tall OL at Wisconsin (4th largest OL of college AND pros last year) so it isn't like he isn't used to playing with tall linemen. Wilson has a release on his throw which is the same height as RG3's (6 feet 2 inches) and also had less batted balls at the LOS than Andrew Luck did. If the Seahawks coaches design plays to roll out or sets up passing windows properly like they do with Brees then I don't see the big issue.
If you're right, we'll know early. Seahawks secondary looks like legit elite unit this year, front 7 shouldn't be too shabby either. If he's getting it done against them in OTAs and TC, I'm buying.
I am a big Wilson fan. I watched every game of his that was televised or available online while he was at State, and I watched several of his games at Wisconsin. He is not really comparable to McCoy at all in terms of style of play and physical talent.
Among these players, only Vick, Brees, and Wilson were taken before the fourth round of the draft; the others were recognized to be deficient in areas other than just height. Wilson was a better college passer than any of those players, including Vick, Brees, and Flutie (Heisman does not equate to being a better passer).Furthermore, some of these players did not play in a pro set and/or played in a run heavy offense. Not true for Wilson. And the shorter players among this group likely had lower release points than Wilson does.
Source for this piece of information? I'm going to guess you just made up a complete fabrication there.
Sure you are, but that's not a problem. I'm rooting for him. I hope he does well and my home team wins some games. That said, I'm not going to make up false statements about him while hunting for a talking point.
hooper is correct...colt mccoy combine hand size: 9 3/8"
russell wilson can do everything colt mccoy can do better and more. just watch them play instead of looking at their college stats and situation. wilson can move - he ran a 4.55 forty, newton ran a 4.59, and mccoy ran a 4.79(???). wilson is also elusive in the pocket and can buy time or space, which is important for his size... mccoy cannot. i honestly think the only thing that wilson and mccoy have in common is their size.
hooper is correct...colt mccoy combine hand size: 9 3/8"
russell wilson combine hand size: 10 1/4"
cam newton combine hand size: 9 7/8" (considered a physical freak...)
ETA: more details.
I watched the Gruden QB school show with Wilson, and Gruden made a point of commenting on how huge his hands are.
hooper is correct...colt mccoy combine hand size: 9 3/8"
russell wilson combine hand size: 10 1/4"
cam newton combine hand size: 9 7/8" (considered a physical freak...)
ETA: more details.
for those who missed it.
My bad. I was totally wrong about the hand size thing. It was opposite of small hands. It was actually one of the arguments from the pro Wilson camp was how big his hands were for his size.Once again I am not rooting against Wilson. I really am not. Just a Seattle homer drafted him in our draft and can't stop raving about him. I then stumbled into this thread to see he is not alone and thought about how there were some similarites to Mccoy. Not comparing them as athletes but their situations.hooper is correct...colt mccoy combine hand size: 9 3/8"
russell wilson combine hand size: 10 1/4"
cam newton combine hand size: 9 7/8" (considered a physical freak...)
ETA: more details.
Excellent interview. Wilson is brilliantly articulate. He is the polar opposite of Travaris Jackson. Jackson always seemed nervous and awkward inmost interviews especially as a rookie.
situation, as in not much in the way of starting, sure... but i'd like to think talent and ability relate to situation when it comes to fantasy football. in fantasy, a backup QB going to a great situation is still a backup QB (situation not great). a talented QB going to a great situation can be great. wilson's got a gun of an arm, great mobility, brains, and leadership qualities that rival tebow - wilson was wisco's captain and starting qb after transferring in july before season started. he learned the offense in about 2 months and came out blazing september 1st against unlv. i think he has a MUCH, MUCH better chance at succeeding that colt mccoy ever did or will.props to mccoy for being a great college qb... but he just looks lost in the NFL. mccoy is small and slow, and ever since getting knocked out of the bcs national championship game in 2010, he's looked lackluster and backup destined imo. i think mccoys situation in cleveland was a temporary fix... wilson's could end up being the same, but i like his chances to succeed much more than i ever liked mccoy's. wilson has qualities to compensate for what he lacks. imo, the only think he lacks is size.
And man does he. I met him on Friday and he was very short. I thought he was going to be a bit taller since he's listed at 5-11, but his actual height at the combine was 5-10 5/8. Perhaps he can pull a Doug Flutie but I'm not holding my breath.
