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The Nick Foles era (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Jed
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ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Chip must love kicking FGs
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cstu
Footballguy
I know you must be a Vick owner and all, but what makes you think Foles can't be the future QB?
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Welcome to philly, where a 24 year old who hits every statistically benchmark you'd want from a QB gets ran out of town for a mid 2nd round pick. Most Eagles fans belive the QB of the future is some mythical 2014 draft pick who fits Chip Kelly's system to a T and that we should tank for him basically. He passes like Foles, runs like Vick in Atl, prays like Tebow, and his balls are huge.
Insein
Footballguy
Lol, you obviously haven't spent time in the Eagles thread. I own Vick and Foles so it makes no difference who scores as long as they do for me. As far as my team goes though, I wasn't sure what Kelly wanted to run. Now that Ive seen the style, it is most efficient with a QB that can pose the threat of a run while being an accurate passer that can read a defense. Foles is accurate and makes good decisions but if the 2nd half of Sunday was any indication, teams will not respect the Read option if he's in there. Vick also lacks key components. While being great at posing the running threat, he is not always accurate and can't always make the right read in time. Plus he's 33. So not the future.
The QB of the future is not on the Eagles right now but that doesn't mean Foles can't increase his value to get us a 2nd rounder back in return this off season.
Insein
Footballguy
You're passion for Foles blinds you to his limitations. I think Foles can be a decent player in the right system but for this team and this scheme, he'll be nothing more than a backup to come in when the starter gets hurt. I took Kelly at his word when he said Foles could run his offense. He can run a version of it yes but without the running threat, it takes away a good portion of his offense. Seeing how the Giants teed off on McCoy Sunday and Foles ended up throwing every single down leads me to believe that he can't fully run this offense without making the reads that lead to him throwing it 70 times a game.
So no I do not want to tank for a top pick. I think our defense is bad enough to take care of that for us. We have the #2 offense through 5 games second only to the Broncos. That was with an old Mike Vick and a half of Nick Foles. Imagine if we get a QB in here that fits Kelly's mold.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Passion? More like I'm paying my tides. But who exactly are you refering to that's in college? We just drafted Matt Barkley, on purpose(smh). Old Oregon QBs got a tryout. Vick can run. He's the limited one when we get in the redzone. Take away the run and Foles will pick you apart. Easy math. To hell with a running QB. To hell with a system. Talent wins out as usual. He had one bad game in his career. I don't know what I'm missing, nor have I heard a compelling argument to cause me to doubt the guy.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
I'm not going to go 12 rounds with you because I've always been a lets see what Foles has person. The little I have seen looks nice but not a perfect fit for kelly now that I see what he wants to do. It doesn't mean Foles is bad or will be bad but I don't think he'll be a guy that can carry us to a super bowl in this style of offense.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Vick wasn't ever the long term answer at QB for Chip Kelly, he was an experiment to see if he could take that type of QB and work him into the concepts of his offense. Predictably, his inability to read the field, lack of awareness of what's going on around him, and inability to make good decisions quickly has caused the Eagles to stumble early on. He's a misfit for the concepts of Chip's offense.
Foles can't run, but he possesses the rest of the necessary traits Chip looks for in a QB. I don't think he's the long term answer, but I think he may be a better solution for this season. He's probably getting claimed, so I really hope Chip rules Vick out tomorrow. I need to slide Vick to the IR so I can claim Foles, don't feel good enough about himt o dump Dalton or Pryor and I'd need to in order to get him without Vick being ruled out.
Foles can't run, but he possesses the rest of the necessary traits Chip looks for in a QB. I don't think he's the long term answer, but I think he may be a better solution for this season. He's probably getting claimed, so I really hope Chip rules Vick out tomorrow. I need to slide Vick to the IR so I can claim Foles, don't feel good enough about himt o dump Dalton or Pryor and I'd need to in order to get him without Vick being ruled out.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I'm not too big on Foles this week. TB surely will have revenge on their mind after last season and an extra week to prepare.
Foles line 250 yards, 1 TD and a couple INT's
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I usually agree with a lot that you say but not so much your stance on what Kelly wants as a fit/ Kelly has always said he'd adapt to what he has. Vick won the job and Kelly adapted. Foles gets the nod this week and I'm hoping he adapts as well. As for the future QB, who knows? As someone else said, we did draft Barkley and he's not the running type either. If anything we need to continue to take Chip at his word. If he gets a pocket QB that he feels is better than the running QB I believe he'll adapt to that guy.
With Foles starting this week I expect to see more short passes from Shady and the TE's getting more work.
Jimbo Slice
Footballguy
That extra week was preparing for Vick tho right? Or even with the bye do they not put the gameplan in until this week? I don't know. I haven't watched much Philly this year, do we know how different the offense will be with foles?
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
If Foles starts, I think they'll show more of the up-tempo offense. If preseason means anything, they ran more of it with Foles than they did with Vick.
Insein
Footballguy
I know what you're saying but I think ideally Kelly would like a Kaeprnick or RG3 type that can throw accurately while still being a threat to run. So yes he will adapt to Foles and I think the offense will still be effective. I'm just talking about if Kelly's going to tie his coaching career to a Qb, I don't know that it will be foles.
Nucker101
Footballguy
Yeah, I agree with Shahbucks and Bigboy here for sure. Foles is much better at decision making and can actually get into a nice passing rhythm, plus what I hate about Vick besides him being injury-prone is that he struggles with touch passes and also he costs his receivers a ton of opportunities to rack up some YAC a lot of times because of his timing/placement of the ball, and from what I've seen of Foles so far he's much better in the regard. I do agree that a mobile QB with a strong arm like Vick is a really good fit for this offense, but Vick simply isn't the long-term solution so I'd like to find out if Foles is(and I believe he is, as long as Chip doesn't bother running any read-option plays). I expect Foles to spread the ball around more( to guys like Avant, Cooper, Celek/Ertz) than Vick did as well.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
The offense will score in the 30's. We couldn't run at all vs Tampa last season. Foles had no choice but to shred them. He was the highest scoring QB in fantasy that week. 250 yards, 2 TD is probably a floor. He's a pickup and play. If ever there was a such thing as a QB HC, this is one.This is basically the Eagles thread lol.
Insein
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Sal Pal thinks 2 to 3 weeks after talking to Vick in the locker room. As heard on 97.5 this afternoon.
Insein
Footballguy
Heard the same thing but I think Vick makes every effort to get back for that Giants game if Foles wins the next 2,
.
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Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Call me very surprised if this happens. I see Philly committing to the run this year more with Shady (who missed game last year in Tampa).
Tampa is going to run run run to chew up clock with Glennon back there in his 2nd start. Tampa run D was solid last year. Pass D much improved with Revis and Banks.
Only 1 team's scored even 20 on the Bucs this year (Patriots 23 in New England). Saints only scored 16, Cardinals 13 in Tampa.
I don't see this game being a high scoring affair personally (seeing a team score in the 30s would be a surprise to me). After Glennon threw away the game in Week 3 vs. the Cardinals, expect Doug Martin, more Doug Martin and more Doug Martin.
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ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Good point. That's just what I think of the Eagles in general. High scores will be more frequent than not because of the style of the offense and the defense. Foles could throw the ball 35-40 times in the hurry up if TB shuts down the run. If Glennon gives the rock up a few times anything can happen.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
So any thoughts on how he actually looked in the game last week?
Yes, "take a shot if you haver the roster space" applies but not really. Roster spots are rare these days, the WW has dried up, chances are rare, the guy dropped could be rosterable next week.
To me 2 weeks of Foles may not be worth it, but a full season in that offense could be fantastic.
Question is would Kelly really supplant Vick.
Insein
Footballguy
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
He comes into the game cold at the end of the 2nd quarter for an injured Vick. It's 2 and 10 on the Eagles 7 yard line. The announcer said something like "I would play it safe here." Foles comes out firing. He completes 7 of 8 passes on the drive. He threw a beautiful pass to DJax near the right sideline that set up a chip shot field goal to end the half.SaintsInDome2006 said:
3rd Quarter the run game was stale and the Center Jason Kelce kept getting bullied. Jason Avant doesn’t expect the ball from being used to MV, so the sure handed receiver drops two passes. Nothing to see here. The eagles are suddenly down 21-19. Foles has one FG drive I think.
4th Quarter Foles scores off of two turnovers. After Kendricks gets an int, Foles threw a 25 yard TD pass on 1st and 10 catching the defense off guard with a streaking TE. It was one of the best plays of the game aside from Boykins int. PA fake rollout to the left, he resets his feet and throws a dart to Celek deep right. Hellova play call.
Next TD drive was the same story. Eli threw a pick. Eagles have the ball near mid field. 28 yard pass to DJax. Had a 3 yard run. Then he threw a perfectly placed fade to DJax for his 2nd TD of the half. The rest of the game was just running out the clock. The offense scored 17 straight to win the game and the Eagles are tied for 1st in the Div.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
If Foles plays well, wins two in a row including Dallas and the team is sitting at 4-3 and leading the division, is Kelly really going to sit him?
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
If he is impressive and we win both you can't sit him. The whole "a player being injured can't lose his job" really doesnt or shouldnt apply.
Insein
Footballguy
The tape will tell. If it's clear he played very well and was the reason we won the games, then I don't think he'll go back to Vick. Not the same coaching staff but that is essentially how Vick got the starting job in 2010. If foles plays decent but makes a few mistakes and we still manage to win for other team factors, I think he says thanks Nick back to the bench.
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T with T
Footballguy
doug martin 30 carries 40 yards...... he isn't gonna be chewing to much clock at 1.3 ypc.
T with T
Footballguy
Bump Djax with the foles news and him getting the start... Foles is a much better pocket passer while m.vick gets lost sometimes and thinks he's a runningback.. That denver game pissed me off bcuz vick held on to the ball forever and didn't look downfield at all .>> Vick is a terrible down field passer and is basically a short passing qb with not that good of accuracy and an ability to scramble.. He will not be starter for Eagles next year Guarantee it.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Idk how you could bump DJax. He'll be fine regardless of who starts. You might could make a case for him becoming more consistent in fantasy week-to-week.
Insein
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
That Saints score is a little deceiving. The Saints missed a FG, they suffered a pick-6 in the red zone and they were driving. It was crummy wet weather with a long lightning delay that seemed to throw the Saints out of sync. - I agree you have to give the TB defense a lot of credit, but with a couple calls going differently that could have easily been a 26-0, 30-3 ball game, or maybe something more like the Pats game.
Also, the Bucs haven't quit on Schiano yet.... but they may.
Could he optimism speaking since I just picked up foles, but I think if chip Kelly truly believed Vick was the best fit and best quarterback he would be starting. Vick has struggled the past 3 games, and foles did a pretty nice job leading the team to its 2nd win last week. They did draft Barkley who isn't necessarily a mobile QB. Could be that chip Kelly has seen enough from Vick and he feels foles gives them the best chance to win.
Sunday will tell a big story. With Vick seeming like he is healthy enough to play, and not starting, tells me something.....
Sunday will tell a big story. With Vick seeming like he is healthy enough to play, and not starting, tells me something.....
Bobbyn2022
Footballguy
i agree with you. and could be optimism speaking because i have foles as well. But thinking back to the offseason i was pretty surprised Vick was brought back at all.
Insein
Footballguy
Vick is hurt. Didn't practice with the first team all week. Foles is starting because of that. Now how he plays is what will determine how long he starts for going forward.
Insein
Footballguy
Its happened before. Hell that's how Vick won the job in 2010. Came in for an injured kolb who was the starter and played good enough to keep the job. I think how foles plays in those games though will determine if he keeps the job. The tape will tell.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
As a fan I think I'm changing my stance since the team could possible be the best in the division. I ehauseted myself with the QB battle. I just want to win the next few games, stay in 1st place and continue to see who fits and who doesn't. Foles has close to 300 regular season attempts in his career. I don't need another 300 to evaluate him. He is who he is and will likely improve. From a FF perspective, if Foles performs over the next week or two I'm going to try and HC him with Vick where ever I can in dynasty. Vick is the one we should leverage into draft picks, not the capable 24 year old playing on a 3rd round rookie salary for the next few years. You could have 2 starting QBs as late as 2014, both possibly availible at bargain prices. That's a big deal in 14-16 team leagues.
Insein
Footballguy
Who's giving you draft picks for a 33 year old runner with mediocre accuracy and a tendency to get hurt at least 2-5 games a season? Especially when he's on a 1 year contract. No the time to move him for draft picks was after 2010 when his stock was at its highest.
eta: Unless of course you were referring to FF dynasty. Still not going to get much there.
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ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Our boy Joe Banner? If you're sitting in first place and sold on Foles, at least for 2013, why not shop Vick for a late pick or two if he won't be back next season. I can see Vick being moved for a conditional late round pick. That makes more business sense than giving up a 24 year old that's playing for peanuts.
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Insein
Footballguy
You would basically decide that Foles is your future and that Matt Barkley is a capable backup for the rest of the year in the matter of 3 weeks. What do you think is most likely to happen?
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