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2023 New York Jets: Bye Bye (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dr. Octopus
- Start date
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Interesting....been thinking about ownership for a while - I laid out a bunch of thoughts - sorry for the long post in advance...cheaper than therapy!
I hate the Johnsons and they are certainly in the bottom rung of "knowledgable" owners in the league but its not like the team can't win with them as owners....they went back to back to AFCCGs with Rex...the problem is they dont hire the right people and since Rex and Tanny they started a pattern that they still have yet to recover.....
Mangini/Tanny - very good combo - Mangini got a raw deal mostly because he tried to be Belihick without the rings and it wore on those around him....he admits he should have been more himself - gave a great interview on the podcast Gangs all here....
Rex/Tanny - great combo - Rex inherited a team ready to take the next step and Tanny did a good job drafting/signing....After the foundation started getting old, Tanny didnt stay ahead and made some bad picks/signings...Gholston, the Sanchez extension and bringing in Tebow were brutal. Every GM makes some bad ones and in hindsight Johnsons probably should have been more patient with this combo...Tanny showed to be a decent GM and Rex was a good OC away from having a top coaching staff
John Idzik - this is where it goes of the rails and the Johnsons blew it....if they wanted to change regimes they should have ripped off the band aid and started completely over....instead they went with an executive search firm (what?!?) and brought in a bean counter GM who only wanted to clear cap space for the future while Rex was clearly on the hot seat to win now....they didnt like each other and were on different time lines.....Idzik was a disaster and he didnt give Rex or Sanchez anything to work with....his drafts were horrific - he traded Revis (starting this pattern of not paying good players)....both he and Rex were fired and the downward spiral continued
Bowles/Mac - again another awful decision by the Johnsons - they go out and have outsiders led by Charlie Casserly - with literally no connection to the Jets to find a GM....so Casserly of course pushes his buddy Mac onto the team who clearly was not the best option in hindsight. Mac was an absolute disaster in drafts and signings....he ignored the OL and consistently passed on premium positions to load up on luxury picks/signings - 2 safetys back to back in 1st/2d rd.....record deals for a RB and MLB....he didnt give Bowles much to work with.....Not that Bowles showed much either - completely devoid of personality and emotion....along with another coach who concentrates on one side of the ball and completely ignored the other...Bowles is a very good DC who just shouldnt be a HC...that should have been clear in the interview process but whiff again
Adam Gase/Mac - 2 huge missteps - again when Bowles was fired Mac should have gone to start clean....instead they short armed it and let him destroy the team with another shaky draft and absolute horror show of an off season.....Mac's legacy is ignoring the OL, passing on premium positions/overpaying for cheaper ones and some of the most awful signings in history with Tru, Bell and Mosely...it was malpractice to let him handle the draft/offseason if they felt shaky with him....As for Gase...I still think the Johnsons were looking to check boxes..they wanted a young offensive coach with HC experience - not many of those out there....Gase probably impressed them talking about the Peyton year and then blew them away by having Peyton call and endorse him...this franchise is smitten with old HOFs because they have so few....they love to bring in HOF after they are toast and act like fan-crushes on them...Peyton sealed the deal and the Gase/Mac marriage began
It didnt take long for Gase to see how awful Mac was - his coup and landing Douglas...along with hopefully getting Trevor - are his legacies. He's been exposed as a terrible HC....joke of the league....Problem is the run against terrible teams last year and his friendship with Douglas has given him enough security to last the season....Johnson inexplicably doubled down on the guy after the first few weeks and has not been seen since....its got to be humiliating and thats hopefully why Gase will get the courtesy of finishing the season before being canned.
Douglas - so now they are left with Douglas....very good rep in the league....very good dealer....has drafted well but signings are shaky to say the least so far....still has 4+ yrs on his deal so he should be on same timeline as the next coach....its also a perfect time for this ridiculous hierarchy to end....let Douglas pick the HC and let him report to the GM....I know other teams are set up with both reporting to the owner but it just has not worked with this team....give Douglas the keys and let him rebuild.....Im hoping this also ends the one side of the ball coach....the Giants Judge has shown that a CEO type of old time coach works very well with a good coaching staff.....Gase concentrating on offense for some reason or not haivng the power to over rule the 0 blitz vs the Raiders is a good example of how that CEO is needed to watch both sides of the ball....they havent had that since Parcells.
So all in all - the whole narrative that the Jets cant win with the Johnsons is over rated....they are not the Wilpons....they spend $....they built a state of the art complex for the team....they just have made bad picks and decisions....they need to get this one right though....a new culture has to be established and implemented. I like the idea of Cower teaming with a young OC and changing things ala Parcells after Kotite.
It all starts with 4 more losses.....the NE game is looking more and more concerning....I know it would be ridiculed but I dont care...we need a stat James Morgan movement to "see what they have" the last 2 games...he's a 4th rd pick...Sam has played awful....I dont care if this kid plays like a Keystone cop....it will get them the top pick and that is the only way to start righting the ship...set aside ego...they are already a laughingstock....a win vs the Pats would crush the souls of an already beaten fan base and franchise....
Fariq
Footballguy
Big ##### vibes if Belichick intentionally loses a game for that reason. Also, if you believe in karma, Belichick will never win big again.
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TLEF316
Footballguy
Yeah, pretty much all this. Idzik and Mac are really the main reason we are where we are. Gase is the giant rotting rat carcass in the ceiling that made everyone take notice, but the terrible foundation of this team is the result of those 2 men.
I always thought Rex got shortchanged at the end. The dude was far from perfect and he obviously failed pretty quickly in Buffalo (although again....he wasn't that bad and only got 2 years). But he was saddled with a bad QB and a GM that was working against him at the end. Easy to say he just needed a good OC, but that argument loses a little oomph when you consider that he fired Greg Roman from that position in Buffalo.
I truly believe Rex was a defensive savant and a really good leader. I think a better organization and more luck at QB and he could have been great. The problem is that his personality (while beloved by the players) is just always going to grate on management types. A bean counter like Idzik mixed with Rex's bravado was just not an ideal mix. He and Douglas would have worked, IMO
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Rex definitely had his warts....but he gave the team and identity and the guy was a leader....players wanted to come and play with him...they would run through a wall for him.....Bowles and Gase aren't even in the ballpark as far as being a leader like Rex.
So much in the NFL is tied to a QB....when Sanchez failed and Geno was exposed Rex was toast....he didnt have a QB in Buff either....very rare for any coach to last without an above average QB in place. Even the great Bellichick looks mortal without Brady....
Are you serious? Belichick has been pressing every edge he can for years. If he has the chance to prevent the Jets from getting a franchise qb by losing a meaningless week 17 game, you can be sure he will do it.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Hooper31
Footballguy
beer5!HOOPER!!!!
As an uneducated Browns fan, I feel like I have some experience in this area and your thoughts above, while made discussing the Jets, applies very well to the Browns. Local radio actually brought it up this morning and I think if you went back and looked you'd see that a few, not many, but a few former Browns players have gone on to have some varying degrees of success after leaving what, up until this year, has been an atrocious Cleveland organization from the top down. Emmanuel Ogbah was the example they used but there are a few others floating around.
Fariq
Footballguy
There's no chance in hell the Jets make it a game tomorrow...right fellas?
Good, I thought I was hallucinating and that there was nothing to worry about.
There is something tho a bit concerning about the Seahawks as they really haven't played well in a few weeks and that gives me a little bit of pause that it's going to be a total blowout. I was originally thinking 45-17 something along those lines.
Now I'm thinking Jets could keep it within the 13 point spread. My revised feeling is Seattle 31...Jets 20. We shalt see soon enough.
Go Seattle!!....lol
Good, I thought I was hallucinating and that there was nothing to worry about.
There is something tho a bit concerning about the Seahawks as they really haven't played well in a few weeks and that gives me a little bit of pause that it's going to be a total blowout. I was originally thinking 45-17 something along those lines.
Now I'm thinking Jets could keep it within the 13 point spread. My revised feeling is Seattle 31...Jets 20. We shalt see soon enough.
Go Seattle!!....lol
Kiddnets
Footballguy
I really hope this is a stress free day.....get pasted by Seattle....start the slide to finalize the last few losses....it will stink watching Jamal whoop it up but its a small price to pay
TLEF316
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
TLEF316
Footballguy
But he at least gives them a chance to steal one.
He might be a 3/10 on his bad days, but sometimes he's a 7.
Glennon is a 4 every week at best.
Fariq
Footballguy
18 seconds left, one time out. Darnold hits Berrios on a big gainer to put the Jets in field goal territory. Berrios runs out of bounds to stop the clock.
Time out, Jets.
Umm, yeah.
Middle of the field now not in play. Short gainer to Crowder. Crowder gets out of bounds. Clock stops. Jets miss field goal.
Time out, Jets.
Umm, yeah.
Middle of the field now not in play. Short gainer to Crowder. Crowder gets out of bounds. Clock stops. Jets miss field goal.
Didn't see the game as I was playing golf and than happy hour but was keeping tabs on the game.
Looks like it was a stress free loss...sweet. Next week vs the Rams should also be stress free.
It's the games vs the Browns and Patriots which could produce agida.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
You didn't miss anything. Pathetic effort. The defense had no answers. The offense couldn't move the ball for the most part. When they were able to move the ball early in the game, Gase couldn't wait to kick fgs despite being 0-12. Sam looked lost. Castillo was worse in this game than Ficken ever was. I would have to watch the game again to look for positives, but I won't bother. Luvu made me laugh flexing like a rooster after a couple nice plays after being down by 30. Oh, we got to see our old buddy Geno Smith. He took over from Wilson in the late third. Otherwise Seattle would have scored a couple of more times.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
So for the heck of it I crunched the schedule strength numbers and when you account for the games in common b/w Jax and the Jets and the guaranteed additions to strength of schedule (i.e. 2 teams that you played playing each other so it's basically +1 either way) it looks like there is very little chance the Jets can pass the Jags in schedule strength. Roughly an 8 1/2 game advantage with about 13 independent results or so left
Ironically of the Jets last 3 games if the Jets win 1 New England would help them on strength the schedule most (counting twice) followed by the Rams (counting once). Beating Cleveland wouldn't change anything as both they and the Jags played them once.
Perfection really looks like it's the only way.
(PS you prefer Pittsburgh tonight)
-QG
Ironically of the Jets last 3 games if the Jets win 1 New England would help them on strength the schedule most (counting twice) followed by the Rams (counting once). Beating Cleveland wouldn't change anything as both they and the Jags played them once.
Perfection really looks like it's the only way.
(PS you prefer Pittsburgh tonight)
-QG
NYRAGE
Footballguy
You must like doing the work. There are plenty of places tracking the SOS all season long since week 1. And yeah, it's been known for a long time that we can't pass the Jags hence our panic about winning even just one game.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
oh I do - tankathon has the percentage and I was kinda curious how possible iy changing would be.
-QG
NYRAGE
Footballguy
There is a Jets site that keeps track of every game's impact, but it's been nearly impossible for the SOS to change in the Jets favor. Almost as likely as getting hit by lightning or Darnold to average a QBR of 40 for the season.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
I should have expected that - the Bengals getting that early tie has made me lazy about our own strength of schedule situation.
-QG
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
Have people seen the SNL skit using the Jets in an election fraud parody? I won't post it here given the topic, but I think many will find it funny if you search for it,
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Stress free game
Sam looked completely shell shocked....just toast. watching Josh Allen in the night game i am just bummed at what could have been...Sam probably does too....if you switch Sam/Allen's situations I think its very likely the outcome switches as well....Jets did this kid no favors with Gase and he just cant recover....he looks worse than backups and QBs playing their first game....not even a debate they move on with the 1st or even 2d pick. They will be lucky to get a 2d for him now....likely 3rd or worse
RBs - Ty Johnson is a young player who showed a spark and a possible impact for the future....so obviously give him less carries than Gore....I cant even laugh any more it so dumb
WRs - all were invisible - definitely missed Mims.
TE = Hermdon is toast as well - another shame as he showed real upside
Defense - way too many weapons to compete with.....not even in the same league...What the heck is wrong in Bless Austin's head
K - time for another chance.....
Jamal didnt look like the best safety on the field - completely justified not paying big time dollars for this one at least. That sack was a complete joke....but Id much rather have a ball hawk safety and zero chance Id pay him whats hes asking for
Geno playing garbage time for an entire quarter is the ultimate slap in the face...he also put up as many pts as Sam
Completely embarrassing performance as expected.....3 more to go and we can all turn the page....feeling a bit better if this continues....
Sam looked completely shell shocked....just toast. watching Josh Allen in the night game i am just bummed at what could have been...Sam probably does too....if you switch Sam/Allen's situations I think its very likely the outcome switches as well....Jets did this kid no favors with Gase and he just cant recover....he looks worse than backups and QBs playing their first game....not even a debate they move on with the 1st or even 2d pick. They will be lucky to get a 2d for him now....likely 3rd or worse
RBs - Ty Johnson is a young player who showed a spark and a possible impact for the future....so obviously give him less carries than Gore....I cant even laugh any more it so dumb
WRs - all were invisible - definitely missed Mims.
TE = Hermdon is toast as well - another shame as he showed real upside
Defense - way too many weapons to compete with.....not even in the same league...What the heck is wrong in Bless Austin's head
K - time for another chance.....
Jamal didnt look like the best safety on the field - completely justified not paying big time dollars for this one at least. That sack was a complete joke....but Id much rather have a ball hawk safety and zero chance Id pay him whats hes asking for
Geno playing garbage time for an entire quarter is the ultimate slap in the face...he also put up as many pts as Sam
Completely embarrassing performance as expected.....3 more to go and we can all turn the page....feeling a bit better if this continues....
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
TLEF316
Footballguy
Yeah, it was nice not to have to sweat this one out. Easy peasy.
I do feel bad for Sam. You can tell the kid is just broken now. He knows he's a dead man walking and he's a good kid, so I'm sure he just feels like he's let everyone down. Maybe he just wasn't any good to begin with, but man...shame on Gase and this entire organization for killing any chance he had. Just absolute malpractice on that one.
Next week SHOULD be another cakewalk (and I'm relying on several rams, including their D, in my fantasy league, so fingers crossed) but after that, things get interesting. Good news is the Cleveland game should be easy if the Jets "defend the run" like they did yesterday. I could have gotten through those holes
I do feel bad for Sam. You can tell the kid is just broken now. He knows he's a dead man walking and he's a good kid, so I'm sure he just feels like he's let everyone down. Maybe he just wasn't any good to begin with, but man...shame on Gase and this entire organization for killing any chance he had. Just absolute malpractice on that one.
Next week SHOULD be another cakewalk (and I'm relying on several rams, including their D, in my fantasy league, so fingers crossed) but after that, things get interesting. Good news is the Cleveland game should be easy if the Jets "defend the run" like they did yesterday. I could have gotten through those holes
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Watching Sam is painful....he uses the same cliches about watching the tape and improvement but the clock is definitely running out....hes not dumb...he knows hes about to be a backup....if the Eagles can move on from a former MVP contender making $30M then the Jets should move on from Sam....
Rams have a nice balance and like Seattle the Jet young cbs will not be able to keep up with those WRs.....should be another double digit loss.
That leaves us with the last 2....I agree that Cleveland running game will be tough to stop but that is the strength of the D....Baker will need to throw and that is where I get nervous even with the terrible DBs....
As for NE....doubt they make the playoffs.....Im rooting for them to win at least one of Miami/Buff so they will be playing for an 8-8 or winning season which may carry some weight to Belichick....not sue how much incentive there is to play for a 7th win......
sheerterror
Footballguy
You HAVE to play James Morgan in the last 1-2 games of the season. Drafted "early enough" as a 4th rounder, Sam playing as atrociously as he is, it's entirely justifiable for the organization to take the stance that they are trying to evaluate all players they have for the future.
TLEF316
Footballguy
I dont disagree, buts it not going to happen.
Zero chance they run the guy out there against the Patriots when its clear they didn't even think enough of him to make him the # 2 when Sam was out.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Do you see Gase willing to play Morgan? He would want to Flacco to play knowing him. Would JD force Gase to play him? Hmm
You gotta love how they scored on the first drive again. Then the typical limited plays for minimal yards in the second half. I think I read that it was 16 plays for 20 yards. Such an embarrassment. Gase is probably the worst coach of all time, not just the worst Jets coach of all time.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
At this point benching Darnold can't even be looked at as tanking since he's been so bad.
I agree, how do you not at least see if Morgan is a backup level QB by giving him some time?
TLEF316
Footballguy
Compared to Jax playing Glennon over Minshew....NOTHING the Jets could do short of running me out there under center can be considered tanking.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
This is the franchise that refused to let a QB they traded up to get in the 2d freaking round take a live snap in Hackenberg....they absolutely refuse to play young QBs unless they deem them "ready - it's dumb and short sighted....if Morgan cant get a shot with Sam playing this awful then JD should take serious heat from drafting the kid in the 1st place.....
for the good of the next 10 yrs of the organization someone needs to step up and force this to happen.....if Gase refuses fire him now - does it really matter
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Root for the Browns tonight. If they win, they have a shot at the division in week 16 when they play our beloved hapless Jets.
If this wasn't the worst loss of Gase's Jets's coaching tenure, then I don't know what was. Usually we can find a few good things out of even the worst losses. What did we do well yesterday?
The Maye interception was great.
Jamal Adams dropping a sure-fire INT right into his overrated hands was satisfying.
Oh, well our chance at the first overall pick is up to 78%. That's by far the best thing about yesterday. Not much else that I can think of. Oh, another game closer to firing Gase.
If this wasn't the worst loss of Gase's Jets's coaching tenure, then I don't know what was. Usually we can find a few good things out of even the worst losses. What did we do well yesterday?
The Maye interception was great.
Jamal Adams dropping a sure-fire INT right into his overrated hands was satisfying.
Oh, well our chance at the first overall pick is up to 78%. That's by far the best thing about yesterday. Not much else that I can think of. Oh, another game closer to firing Gase.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Bringing back a guy that hasn’t coached in 15 years would have been very Jets-like. I’m glad he’s not giving them that chance.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
I'm starting to think that you're really masochistic and wanting to jump on the Jets bandwagon in addition to rooting for the Bengals. We might have a few empty seats on the back of the train.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
This may be the oddest thing on the long list of odd things about Gase. Even if Gore was still playing at a high level (and he’s not), giving him lead back carries on an 0-12 team just makes no sense. Why wouldn’t Johnson get an audition?
There is not other HC that would go back to Gore after what Johnson showed last week.
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QuizGuy66
Footballguy
lol naaaaah - maybe it's just the thrill of a quest for #1
Can't stand Cowher so good for you guys.
And to be honest NY Media generates more stories. Our stories are depressingly predictable. With a 1 1/2 game lead for the coveted #3 pick you'd think I could cheer a win as harmless but still can't since it means we'll keep our terrible coach.
You guys are much less interesting when things are going well
-QG
sheerterror
Footballguy
No, of course not - but I guess my point is to not let it be his decision - as it f'n shouldn't be when he's on his way out and that 'decision' could impact this franchise long, long after he's gone.
As to your second statement, I've made a lot of money on this trash bag team all season long just live betting their 1st half team total unders after it gets inflated when they score right away and look semi competent.
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