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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread***


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I'd like to go on record saying it's possible, likely even, that Hunter Biden was improperly using his father's connections and influence to enrich himself.

That pales in comparison to Trump using the weight of the US Government to manipulate a foreign government into tarnishing his political opponent.

Not to mention: there is nothing Hunter Biden could have possibly done that is less shady than the #### pulled by either DJTJr, Kushner, or Ivanka.

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The quid pro quo discussion is a red herring. Sondland’s statement and testimony is proof that the President was running a shadow diplomacy operation using his private attorney outside of normal execu

This is no longer something worth arguing about for the time being.  Until the administration puts forth some compelling evidence or allows some witness to testify as to its side of the story, there i

34 minutes ago, moleculo said:

I'd like to go on record saying it's possible, likely even, that Hunter Biden was improperly using his father's connections and influence to enrich himself.

That pales in comparison to Trump using the weight of the US Government to manipulate a foreign government into tarnishing his political opponent.

Not to mention: there is nothing Hunter Biden could have possibly done that is less shady than the #### pulled by either DJTJr, Kushner, or Ivanka.

We've seen a rich history of foreign governments influencing US politics through "business dealings" with their children.  Nice, easy way to keep a political distance and at the same time peddle influence.  Hunter Biden got the deal of a lifetime in China - something that should have been looked into years ago.  No surprise that we see the same influence peddling in Ukraine.  

I fully support the whistleblower here - let him testify.  Let's see Joe and Hunter in front of Congress to explain this, as well.  There is a deep, deep well here to explore.

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7 minutes ago, Sand said:

I fully support the whistleblower here - let him testify.  Let's see Joe and Hunter in front of Congress to explain this, as well.  There is a deep, deep well here to explore

I think most people agree with this, except those that are doing everything in their power to keep it out of the hands of Congress.

Why would they do that?

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If I am reading this article correctly: 

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/20/politics/wsj-trump-ukraine-calls-biden-investigation-giuliani/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F

then Trump was careful not to mention any specific quid pro quo in the phone call. 

If that is the case, then in my judgment, he will get away with this. 

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2 hours ago, lazyike said:

Seems that the Trump machine isn’t showing much concern about this all but seems to me if the tape ( if there is one) reveals withholding the 250 million was part of this conversation this could be just a bit too much for some Republicans but I have been wrong about this before. 

 

Need to apologize for my lack in common sense here, broke my arm yesterday and am waiting for surgery on Monday and on pain medication (hydro condone)which has me thinking irrational. Upon further review I remember that GOP Senators and Representatives only want to get re-elected and seeing how 90% GOP voters don’t give a rat’s a$& or even know what Trump say or does I renege the previous post completely 

Edited by lazyike
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11 minutes ago, timschochet said:

If I am reading this article correctly: 

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/20/politics/wsj-trump-ukraine-calls-biden-investigation-giuliani/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F

then Trump was careful not to mention any specific quid pro quo in the phone call. 

If that is the case, then in my judgment, he will get away with this. 

Because congressional Democrats are spineless. This is absolutely ridiculous.  Pelosi et.al. are setting a precedent whereby literally nothing is impeachable.

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1 hour ago, moleculo said:

I'd like to go on record saying it's possible, likely even, that Hunter Biden was improperly using his father's connections and influence to enrich himself.

He seems to have violated traditional norms rather than laws.

I really want to urge respect for traditional norms until we can codify them into law, so this is a knock against the Biden family. But nothing that should change anybody's mind in a Biden-vs-Trump matchup.

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Just now, IvanKaramazov said:

Because congressional Democrats are spineless. This is absolutely ridiculous.  Pelosi et.al. are setting a precedent whereby literally nothing is impeachable.

This is true but it’s not only that. 

Suppose in the Watergate  tapes, Nixon had never directly said anything about paying people off? Suppose he carefully had listened, neither approved nor disapproved, and made general comments only? IMO, he never would have resigned and never would have been impeached. He would have argued that he didn’t understand, or that he himself was misunderstood, etc. 

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On an optimistic note, maybe this will bring down Trump and Biden both and leave us with a decent choice of 2020 Dem presidential candidates.  Enough with the racist, rich, clueless old white man as president motif. 

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17 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

He seems to have violated traditional norms rather than laws.

I really want to urge respect for traditional norms until we can codify them into law, so this is a knock against the Biden family. But nothing that should change anybody's mind in a Biden-vs-Trump matchup.

The New Yorker had a very unflattering article about Hunter. He has a long history of really bad life decisions. 

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8 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Biden hasn't won the nomination yet.  In fact you can get him at ~3/1 as the Dem nominee.

Warren's at ~3/2.

I’ve probably been the biggest Biden booster in this forum ( that despite the fact I’ve never loved the guy and he isn’t my first or second choice.) But this story could change my mind completely. Last thing we need is another Hillary email mess hanging over our heads all through election year. 

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11 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Biden hasn't won the nomination yet.  In fact you can get him at ~3/1 as the Dem nominee.

Warren's at ~3/2.

I am guessing part of the deal was to launch the investigation after Biden got the nomination...

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

I’ve probably been the biggest Biden booster in this forum ( that despite the fact I’ve never loved the guy and he isn’t my first or second choice.) But this story could change my mind completely. Last thing we need is another Hillary email mess hanging over our heads all through election year. 

Let me say first of all that reporters, pundits and candidates - even Biden and his team - who get into the weeds of this are doing Trump's work. I say that because from what I can tell there is absolutely no event to debate here. I don't mean 'IMO', I mean there is no event at all underlying this claim specifically about Hunter Biden. Lutsenko, who was in charge when Biden came, Kasko, who was in charge when it was happening, and the current prosecutor, all say there is no actual case. Kasko says the case was closed since 2014. Hunter Biden did not even join the board until months after the UK first initiated the claim that led to the investigation.

Quote

 

...at the time Biden made his ultimatum, the probe into the company -- Burisma Holdings, owned by Mykola Zlochevsky -- had been long dormant, according to the former official, Vitaliy Kasko.

“There was no pressure from anyone from the U.S. to close cases against Zlochevsky,” Kasko said in an interview last week. “It was shelved by Ukrainian prosecutors in 2014 and through 2015.”

Bloomberg.

The case had been dormant two years by the time Biden showed to talk about the very genuine issue of Ukrainian corruption.

Some more detail.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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1 hour ago, Encyclopedia Brown said:

The New Yorker had a very unflattering article about Hunter. He has a long history of really bad life decisions. 

You took me by the hand

You made me a man

That one night

You made everything all right

That one night

You made everything all right

So raw so right all night all right

Oh yeah, oh yeah

So raw so right all night all right

Oh yeah

 

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1 hour ago, lazyike said:

Need to apologize for my lack in common sense here, broke my arm yesterday and am waiting for surgery on Monday and on pain medication (hydro condone)which has me thinking irrational. Upon further review I remember that GOP Senators and Representatives only want to get re-elected and seeing how 90% GOP voters don’t give a rat’s a$& or even know what Trump say or does I renege the previous post completely 

Get well!

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3 hours ago, moleculo said:

I'd like to go on record saying it's possible, likely even, that Hunter Biden was improperly using his father's connections and influence to enrich himself.

That pales in comparison to Trump using the weight of the US Government to manipulate a foreign government into tarnishing his political opponent.

Not to mention: there is nothing Hunter Biden could have possibly done that is less shady than the #### pulled by either DJTJr, Kushner, or Ivanka.

Seems very unlikely considering what we know actually happened.  Ukraine was not investigating Burisma by the time Hunter joined the board.  Biden was joined by pretty much every Western government in lobbying for the removal of a prosecutor who was dragging his feet and protecting corrupt oligarchs who had been connected to the Yankuvich government. And while I have no confirmation either way, I'd be extremely surprised to learn that Hunter Biden's compensation as a board member would be tied to in anyway to a favorable outcome in the (reportedly dormant) investigation.  This feels very much like Uranium One in that the claimed corruption just doesn't make sense on its own terms.

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18 minutes ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Of course, the funniest thing about all this is that if it's no big deal and just part of Trump's foreign policy authority, then there's literally no corruption argument against Joe Biden, who is accused of doing EXACTLY WHAT TRUMP AND RUDY HAVE JUST TOLD US IS PERFECTLY LEGAL!

:lmao:solid point 

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53 minutes ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Of course, the funniest thing about all this is that if it's no big deal and just part of Trump's foreign policy authority, then there's literally no corruption argument against Joe Biden, who is accused of doing EXACTLY WHAT TRUMP AND RUDY HAVE JUST TOLD US IS PERFECTLY LEGAL!

Funny isn’t the word I’d use. 

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4 hours ago, timschochet said:

I’ve probably been the biggest Biden booster in this forum ( that despite the fact I’ve never loved the guy and he isn’t my first or second choice.) But this story could change my mind completely. Last thing we need is another Hillary email mess hanging over our heads all through election year. 

You were also the biggest Hillary booster in this forum.   And, after the election, you claimed you never loved her as a candidate.   

 

You lack credibility in these matters.

3 hours ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Of course, the funniest thing about all this is that if it's no big deal and just part of Trump's foreign policy authority, then there's literally no corruption argument against Joe Biden, who is accused of doing EXACTLY WHAT TRUMP AND RUDY HAVE JUST TOLD US IS PERFECTLY LEGAL!

This is a little too nuanced for Trump voters, yes?

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3 minutes ago, The Future Champs said:

You were also the biggest Hillary booster in this forum.   And, after the election, you claimed you never loved her as a candidate.   

 

You lack credibility in these matters.

 

I liked Hillary a lot more than I like Biden. Still do. 

My credibility should be based on whether what I write makes sense. Not on my record of predictions. Actually my record of predictions is pretty good, but it shouldn’t matter. Only if what I write currently is credible. That’s not up to me but to you and anybody else reading this. 

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44 minutes ago, The Future Champs said:

This is a little too nuanced for Trump voters, yes?

I'm sure you're waiting for one of the normal cadre to chime in with the "but Trump voters are to stupid to read so yeah".  

Took care of that to advance the line here so we can keep movin' on movin' on.

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16 minutes ago, Sand said:

I'm sure you're waiting for one of the normal cadre to chime in with the "but Trump voters are to stupid to read so yeah".  

Took care of that to advance the line here so we can keep movin' on movin' on.

I don't think anyone here would say or post anything like that GB.  They don't support him out of stupidity.  It's more like being in a cult and brainwashed because they only believe what Trump tells them to believe. 

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13 hours ago, Sammy3469 said:

Proof?

Trump’s the one that’s stopping the whistleblower, not Schiff :shrug: 

Don’t you want the truth to come out?

Oh God, the other eight times someone asked DN for proof of Schiff lying weren't inconclusive enough?

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10 hours ago, Sheriff Bart said:

Not that I expect any of the usual suspects to read it, but just in case the good Lord casts the scales from an eye or two, I'll make it easy for them:

Quote

In 173 pages on Russian interference, Mueller identified constant contact and interaction between the Russian campaign to elect Donald Trump and the Trump campaign. Mueller found clear evidence of collusion, as the examples below demonstrate.

Mueller decided not to prosecute for criminal conspiracy based on a very narrow prosecutorial standard that he clearly laid out in the report. However, it is abundantly clear that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to interfere in the 2016 election.

Here are six clear examples of collusion from the Mueller report:

Quote

The Mueller report builds on the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that there were two campaigns to elect Donald Trump— one run by Trump and one run by the Russian government. The Mueller report clearly identified collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, despite repeated denials from Trump and many of his senior advisers and close associates that there were any connections between the two campaigns.

A total of 272 contacts between Trump’s team and Russia-linked operatives have been identified, including at least 38 meetings. And we know that at least 33 high-ranking campaign officials and Trump advisers were aware of contacts with Russia-linked operatives during the campaign and transition, including Trump himself. None of these contacts were ever reported to the proper authorities. Instead, the Trump team tried to cover up every single one of them.

Beyond the many lies the Trump team told to the American people, Mueller himself repeatedly remarked on how far the Trump team was willing to go to hide their Russian contacts, stating, “the investigation established that several individuals affiliated with the Trump Campaign lied to the Office, and to Congress, about their interactions with Russian-affiliated individuals and related matters. Those lies materially impaired the investigation of Russian election interference.”

Below is a comprehensive chronological list of the contacts that have been discovered to date and some of the many lies Trump’s campaign, transition team, and White House told to hide them.

 

Edited by Dinsy Ejotuz
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12 hours ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Seems very unlikely considering what we know actually happened.  Ukraine was not investigating Burisma by the time Hunter joined the board.  Biden was joined by pretty much every Western government in lobbying for the removal of a prosecutor who was dragging his feet and protecting corrupt oligarchs who had been connected to the Yankuvich government. And while I have no confirmation either way, I'd be extremely surprised to learn that Hunter Biden's compensation as a board member would be tied to in anyway to a favorable outcome in the (reportedly dormant) investigation.  This feels very much like Uranium One in that the claimed corruption just doesn't make sense on its own terms.

That hasn't stopped it from spreading like wildfire in the conservative echo-chambers.  So much so, even Tim is reconsidering Biden.  Amazing.

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5 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

I mean - the allegation is that the President used his position to pressure a foreign country to investigate a political rival.

If that is not an abuse of power - then nothing will ever be an abuse of power.

Until a Democrat, or a woman or a black guy (but I repeat myself), does it.

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