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I'm still undecided. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mr.Pack
- Start date
EZD222
Footballguy
Didn't watch either so couldn't tell you what the questions were in order. But if either side can't condemn both left extremism, or far right white supremacists, or lunatics (yes I'm characterizing Q has that) then that's an issue. I have a serious problem with that lack of denouncing racism or acting dumb like you don't know who or what it is. If that's what put me over the edge so be it. Just denounce it and move on. Maybe then people on the fence won't feel so slimy casting a vote for him then.
Trump disavowed it years ago. I remember because it's the first time I can recall hearing the term disavow. It spiked in the English vocabulary. But here we are.
jm192
Footballguy
Here's the thing:
Trump's a terrible person. But everytime someone hits me with those "stupid Trump" supporter insults...every step I've taken towards voting for Biden is wiped out. Why would I want to vote like someone that insults me?
"You must really be confused as to how the system works," because you don't agree with my point? As to call me stupid or uneducated?
Biden has been a Vice President for 8 years. He was a Senator/VP for 44 years. 8/44 years he was VP. That's ~18% of his service. He was chair of the Senate Judiciary committe for another 8 years. Are you seriously arguing that the Senator from Delaware hasn't had immense influence?
And people get on here and tell me that after two hundred plus years, racism in America is so bad. And it's because of Trump--who has been a politician for 4 years. There's systemic racism. And it's due to a guy who has the least time in the system?
What about Biden and his 44 years? What about Pelosi? Klobuchar has been a public servant to MN for 20+ years now. Black men are being murdered on camera in her state. But it's the POTUS's fault. The only person in the entire country who can change the winds of racism is the president. You can't be serious.
I'd give more credence to someone arguing that McConnell is the problem.
Seriously, check out Google use of the term.
https://www.google.co.uk/trends/
It peaked when he "disavowed" them in the 2016 campaign. Short memories here I guess. Strangely enough though you wont find that quote if you try to find it in Google, even though it seems we've move on from that term. Every one of the questions was "denounced", not "disavowed". Try to think for yourselves people. Not what you are fed.
https://www.google.co.uk/trends/
It peaked when he "disavowed" them in the 2016 campaign. Short memories here I guess. Strangely enough though you wont find that quote if you try to find it in Google, even though it seems we've move on from that term. Every one of the questions was "denounced", not "disavowed". Try to think for yourselves people. Not what you are fed.
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Biden is the nominee because he can reliably beat Trump. As simple as that. I think just about any of democratic options would have had a good chance to beat Trump but Biden is the surest thing. When the black voters got behind him in South Carolina that was it. Pete was my guy but he just couldn’t get the support of black voters needed to get the nomination. Biden has the same characteristics that made Trump appealing to some - not polished, makes mistakes and says some stupid things.
I view Biden as a buffer. You don’t go from Trump and immediately jump into a great President. You need someone to come in clean up the messes left and get it ready for the next person. Maybe that’s Harris, Pete, someone new or even a GOP candidate if they decide to go away from the Trump wing. But work needs to be done before we can rebound as a country.
When it comes down to a choice between Trump and Biden, all you need do is look at the most pessimistic view of Biden. He’s senile and either Harris or his handlers will be the ones running the country. That sounds fantastic right now. I wish Trump had handlers that would be running things.
What you missed at the town hall was tried to claim he doesn’t know who they are?( QAnon) I can almost believe he is so inept that he hasn’t been briefed about this group labeled a terrorist by his own FBI but we all know better. He has been asked by reporters numerous times about them and to condemn them. I realize he and his inner circle are pretty lame but by now he has had to of discussed or been briefed on exactly who they are.Trump disavowed it years ago. I remember because it's the first time I can recall hearing the term disavow. It spiked in the English vocabulary. But here we are.
Reminds me how back in 2016 he tried to claim he didn’t know who David Duke was after he had received Duke’s endorsement. But he had been quoted several times discussing David Duke years earlier. This exactly the kind if bald faced liar Trump is but he realizes his followers will never check out his absurd statements.
“Duke ran for governor of Louisiana in 1991 as a Republican, and Trump said at the time that President George H.W. Bush was right “to come out against” Duke’s campaign. Duke lost but he won a majority of the white vote — which Trump found troubling. “I hate seeing what it represents,” Trump said, referring to what he called the “anger vote.”
In 2000, Trump considered running for the Reform Party presidential nomination but did not run because he said he did not want to be associated with Pat Buchanan, who had left the Republican Party to seek the Reform Party nomination, and David Duke, who supported Buchanan. Trump at the time called Duke “a bigot, a racist, a problem.”
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I do not believe President Trump in his 4 years or VP Biden in his 44 years are responsible for systemic racism. The problem is that he fails to acknowledge it exists. Oh he may acknowledge it occasionally when forced but then his words and actions only support the police as he talks only of law and order without understanding what the BLM Is protesting or supporting their right to protest.
Capella
Footballguy
Nobody called you stupid. You mentioned Biden’s 47 years and asked why he didn’t change things. I responded he was a senator of a small state for most of those. Yes, he was VP. Personally I think his admin did a decent amount in those 8 years but you may disagree.
Again, never said systemic racism is because of Trump. Never said the only person who can change racism is the president. It’s hard to debate with somebody who continues to make stuff up.
Klobuchar, Pelosi etc are irrelevant to the conversation. More straw men. They aren’t running for president.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Do you think the trajectory of racial unrest has accelerated during Trump’s presidency, and do you believe it will worsen, improve or stay the same if Biden is elected?
In my relatively uninformed opinion, racial conflict is as bad as it’s been in my ~50 year lifetime, and our POTUS hasn't done anything to de escalate it. Increasing police/national guard presence at protests doesn’t count, and his rhetoric has arguably made things worse.
I don’t think Biden’s going to eliminate the problem(s), but he certainly won’t fan the flames. Even the most ardent Trump supporter has to admit uniting people isn’t his strong suit.
KingPrawn
Footballguy
The president has certainly lit the fire but the Democrats take every opportunity to fan the flames in order to gain politically. Of course they'll back off on fanning the flames if Biden wins. They're going to say, "See, everything's better."
MAC_32
Footballguy
I don't know if McConnell is a bigger problem, but when I read that I paused. The environment he created helped pave the way for this thing in 2016 and is one of the primary sources of discord over the last decade. Disheartening he's gonna win easy...we get the representatives we deserve.
Zow
Footballguy
Yeah. From the Mongolians. However I don’t think they’re currently much of a threat.
And I’m okay with decreased military. Again, I’d prefer that money go to pay debt or go directly back to the taxpayers.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
If the situation improves, I’ll accept that. An effective leader needs to be able to foster a more productive relationship with the “other side”, and I believe Biden is far better suited for that aspect of POTUS.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Absolutely. I have no idea how some people can suggest there’s no room to cut our military budget, or worse, increase it.
Widbil83
Footballguy
What? I believe you’re the poster who wants to “return to normalcy.” Like when Joe Biden told a black audience Mitt Romney wanted to put them back in chains. Or never voted against a war or tax raise put in front of him. You have no room attacking me here supporting a terrible candidate like Joe Biden.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
He’s allowed people to really speak their minds - it just turns out what is on their mind is fairly offensive. And that bank account thing.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I'm still undecided as to if I am voting for Biden or not. Trump is not getting my vote under any circumstance, but whether or not I vote for Biden is still up in the air. It'll probably be a gut decision on Election Day.
gianmarco
Footballguy
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Capella
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
jm192
Footballguy
I don’t think Trump is Mr. Fix it on the issue.
But Seriously, neither is Biden. 8 years as the VP and we are where we are. 8 years as the chair of the judiciary committee and we are where we are.
People are seriously trying to argue that the people with 20, 30,40 years experience are suddenly going to fix systemic racism? And the guy that has been here for 4 years is a bigger problem than them?
The whole argument is ridiculous to me. If Biden were going to fix or improve racial injustice in America, he’d have done so in 44 years.
That’s not being an ardent trump supporter. I’m a conservative. I don’t love Trump. But I certainly don’t buy that the old blood is going to fix a 240 year old problem after having had 40 years to do so. It's a ridiculous argument to me.
gianmarco
Footballguy
You are definitely not voting Trump. You are obviously against him.
You aren't sure about Biden.
The way Trump wins is if Biden doesn't get enough votes. That's what happens when you vote anyone else. Might as well not show up.
This isn't the year to place a symbolic vote, especially if you live in a state that matters. Trump needs to be overwhelmingly defeated if you are against him.
jm192
Footballguy
jm192
Footballguy
Left:
Go vote! Everyone go vote! Make sure your voice is heard! Not like that.
I’m leaning towards voting for Jorgenson myself. You do you good brother (or sister).
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
It's never the year to place a symbolic vote, is it? Every damn election, there is a portion that screams out, "This isn't the year to vote for a 3rd party candidate!" Always voting R or D is how we get stuck with no other real options. I am not so obtuse as to think that my single vote for a 3rd party candidate will all of a sudden make them viable and a legit threat to either major party (and I didn't think that in 1992, 1996 or 2016 when I voted for a 3rd party candidate then either), but I'll be damned if the two major parties are going to keep treating the public like they do and giving us trash candidates and then think I'm gonna play ball. Votes need to be earned.
Edit: I think Biden is going to win in a rout, barring something unforeseen happening in the next few weeks, and I don't live in a swing state (Missouri), so I kind of fall into that "your vote doesn't really matter at all that much" category.
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I'm tired of the argument that not voting, or voting third party is a wasted vote. You know what a wasted vote is? A wasted vote is voting for Obama and then watching him kick 5 million families out of their homes while the banks get bigger, taking us from four wars/sustained bombing campaigns to seven, dropping so many bombs that the Pentagon warned we might be able to replenish them fast enough, and having real income decline for the bottom 90% during a period of sustained economic expansion for the first time since reliable statistics have been kept.
I understand the impulse to return to normalcy. But can we acknowledge that "normal" is still crappy for a lot of people in this country.
I understand the impulse to return to normalcy. But can we acknowledge that "normal" is still crappy for a lot of people in this country.
gianmarco
Footballguy
I've never once advocated not voting for a 3rd party candidate. This is the first year. Only because I've never felt someone was a danger as President like the situation we are in now.
So, no, for me, it's not every election.
I would love to get rid of the two party system. I agree with a lot of what you wrote.
But not this year. Not this election.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Although I have no idea how much time/effort Biden has devoted to systemic racism over his career, the issue certainly has become more pressing to warrant his attention as POTUS. And no, I don’t expect him to “fix it”, but I suspect he won’t make things worse.
Capella
Footballguy
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Why does it matter if someone cannot understand the justification for voting Trump, or go so far as to suggest it’s a stupid decision? Do people really vote based on how others might perceive them, or protest their intelligence being insulted?
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Nice that you grouped those two together in c.
Probably none of you examples. More likely the anti-maskers following Trumps lead who are causing the business to get throttled back to 25% capacity as cases spike in the area again.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Agree wholeheartedly. I’ve never voted, live in a decisively Democratic state and still plan on casting a vote for Biden. The more overwhelming the defeat, the better, not only for the prospects of a contested election, but also as an emphatic sign Americans won’t tolerate Trump’s brand of politics moving forward.
Widbil83
Footballguy
You’re suddenly safer from being bullied on this board for being a Trump supporter than you are for being an undecided voter.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
I’ve never been to WI, but imagine drunken applies to most people willing to live there.We talking Madison, or outside Madison?
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Drunken yes, but Madison is mostly an island of blue surrounded by a lake of red.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
Off the top of my head....
Tax cuts for businesses and lower bracket income earners
Bombing the crap out of Isis, weakening them bigly
Upping Military spending
Taking care of our Veterans
Just to name a few. I'm not happy there is no ACA replacement plan tho. While I'm glad they're dismantling it, i would really like to hear the replacement and hopefully it has an emphasis on the first A - Affordable which Obamacare never was.
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
Thanks for stopping by. There's got to be a Biden rally somewhere out there for you
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
Great question.
I'm taking everything in, from this thread, to the town halls to reading up on Bidens plans and policies.
