What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

2020-21 NBA *Playoffs* Thread: Bucks are the champs and you can take that to the bank bromigos (13 Viewers)

So Shaq/Barkley says that Chis Paul is the greatest leader in basketball.

What say you all?
I think Barkley & O'Neal should feature themselves on Shaqin' A Fool if they believe Chris Paul is the 'greatest leader in basketball'.  There are plenty of reasons why his teams typically underachieve in the playoffs...one of which is the guy is an all-time ####### and his teammates eventually hate him.  That tends to show up on the court eventually.

 
Love how that list leaves our Dennis Rodman, a hall to fame player and probably the best defensive player ever. But we made sure to include Mo Williams. Good stuff. 
I think it was just a factual list of who made an all-star game while a teammate of said player.

But ASG's is a stupid metric to go by.  It is the least indicative of all of the awards, IMO.  It is more of a popularity contest than anything, but you don't have to be great and it is a mid-season award.

 
I agree but James will be 37 next season and has a lot of miles on his body so like old cars I expect more frequent breakdowns going forward.
I disagree because he is a freak of nature. I think his injuries this year were caused by a short off-season and playing a more condensed schedule. He is going to have a longer off-season this year and more motivation. Father time will eventually catch up to James, but I don't think it will be next year. 

 
I disagree because he is a freak of nature. I think his injuries this year were caused by a short off-season and playing a more condensed schedule. He is going to have a longer off-season this year and more motivation. Father time will eventually catch up to James, but I don't think it will be next year. 
he needs to consider load management

 
Giannis can surely lead a team to a title, sure.  But it’s pretty disingenuous to try to equate the ability of those two to win titles in the 70s and 80s to a lead cog on a team 40 years later.  Winning a title with a franchise player without much ability outside of 15 feet is infinitely more challenging in 2021 with how the game has evolved over those 40 years.  
It was more of a comparison of guys who were atypical as the best player on a team (even for their era).  Unseld and Malone led their teams and won with rebounding and other non-scoring means.  Giannis is in that same mold.  Sure the game has expanded to a 3-pt shooting league, but Giannis is also a lot more skilled and faster than either of Unseld & Malone.  It wasn't a direct comparison, but a conceptual one whereby an atypical star can be the best player on a Championship team.  Honestly, Shaq would probably fall in that category as well, but he was more offensive minded.  Maybe Duncan is a good comparison?  Either way, the whole point was to combat the concept that since Giannis doesn't shoot 3's, he can't be the best player on a championship team.

 
It was more of a comparison of guys who were atypical as the best player on a team (even for their era).  Unseld and Malone led their teams and won with rebounding and other non-scoring means.  Giannis is in that same mold.  Sure the game has expanded to a 3-pt shooting league, but Giannis is also a lot more skilled and faster than either of Unseld & Malone.  It wasn't a direct comparison, but a conceptual one whereby an atypical star can be the best player on a Championship team.  Honestly, Shaq would probably fall in that category as well, but he was more offensive minded.  Maybe Duncan is a good comparison?  Either way, the whole point was to combat the concept that since Giannis doesn't shoot 3's, he can't be the best player on a championship team.
I liked and understood your first comparisons just fine. They were better than Duncan for sure. Someone compared Giannis to Shaq, which seemed weird on the surface but was also accurate in how both force all five defenders into the half circle then still get postered. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Lol. Why would anyone want to go play with a guy that leads his team to the finals like 60 percent of the time?
i would say because he seems to be on the downside of his career, and not sure he can take a team to the finals again. Age has to get him at some point no? the TRT and whatever else is being fed into Lebron's body can't work forever.

If it was 2011, then sure.

 
I disagree because he is a freak of nature. I think his injuries this year were caused by a short off-season and playing a more condensed schedule. He is going to have a longer off-season this year and more motivation. Father time will eventually catch up to James, but I don't think it will be next year. 
I think this was a big factor for both of the returning finals teams getting bounced.

 
It was more of a comparison of guys who were atypical as the best player on a team (even for their era).  Unseld and Malone led their teams and won with rebounding and other non-scoring means.  Giannis is in that same mold.  Sure the game has expanded to a 3-pt shooting league, but Giannis is also a lot more skilled and faster than either of Unseld & Malone.  It wasn't a direct comparison, but a conceptual one whereby an atypical star can be the best player on a Championship team.  Honestly, Shaq would probably fall in that category as well, but he was more offensive minded.  Maybe Duncan is a good comparison?  Either way, the whole point was to combat the concept that since Giannis doesn't shoot 3's, he can't be the best player on a championship team.
Unseld was certainly a rock and a true leader of the Bullets.  But he did have Hall of Famer Elvin Hayes with him during those 2 Finals years.

I was on the other side of the fence those years (being a Sonics fan).  We had our own version of Unseld (leader/rebounder/non-stats oriented play) in Paul Silas.

The guy that worried me the most on that team was Bobby F-in Dandridge.  His off-the-wrong-foot, leg-splayed, clothesline arc daggers killed the Sonics in those two Finals in the 78 and 79. 

The lack of leaders in today's game is palpable.

 
I want this team to lose so freaking bad

I stopped reading here:

Which means they are the perfect team for Kevin Durant. He has exactly the sort of transcendental galaxy brain that likes to rise up very high, and then slightly higher, to think about things like deep time and space rocks and the meaning of life. And the Brooklyn Nets are his galaxy-brain superteam. At long last, after all these many millions of years, Kevin Durant may have finally found his true basketball home.
It wouldn't surprise me if this is how he thinks of himself and I'm confident he had a heavy hand in writing this.

 
I think last year and this year had pandemic related situations that impacted the results. Last year, the break, the bubble, no home court in the playoffs, no travel in the playoffs. This year, mostly empty arenas led to a lot fewer pressure situations and the no home court advantage scenario again. That likely messed with the seeding and the playoff tournament teams. 

How much that played into determining the champion is debatable. I’m still trying to put my finger on when the association turned into a defense optional league. 

 
It was more of a comparison of guys who were atypical as the best player on a team (even for their era).  Unseld and Malone led their teams and won with rebounding and other non-scoring means.  Giannis is in that same mold.  Sure the game has expanded to a 3-pt shooting league, but Giannis is also a lot more skilled and faster than either of Unseld & Malone.  It wasn't a direct comparison, but a conceptual one whereby an atypical star can be the best player on a Championship team.  Honestly, Shaq would probably fall in that category as well, but he was more offensive minded.  Maybe Duncan is a good comparison?  Either way, the whole point was to combat the concept that since Giannis doesn't shoot 3's, he can't be the best player on a championship team.
its spelled anteaternintendo take that to the bank brohan 

 
I missed the beginning of the game, then fell asleep shortly after I tuned in :lol: Did AD play at all? Last I saw near the end of the Portland game was that AD was cleared to play. I see in the box he only played 5 minutes. Did he get hurt again?

 
I missed the beginning of the game, then fell asleep shortly after I tuned in :lol: Did AD play at all? Last I saw near the end of the Portland game was that AD was cleared to play. I see in the box he only played 5 minutes. Did he get hurt again?
Yes, he started the game and was moving cautiously and then was trying to guard Booker and slid with him to the basket and started grabbing at his groin.  He sat on the floor for a bit and then eventually just went to the bench and never came back in.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Lakers are in salary cap hell right now--112 million in guaranteed deals for only five players. No first round picks that can be traded until 2027. Basically zero cap room to sign any meaningful FA. If they stay the course (and this is from ESPN) and try and resign what they have (and this is assuming people want to take min deals to play with Lebron) they are looking at a quarter of a BILLION dollars in salary next year when you figure in the luxury tax. 

Schroeder already turned down a 4 year 84 million deal the Lakers offered, so do you think he is going to take less just to say he played with Lebron. 

Article for those interested link

(it is a ESPN+ article just fyi) 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
From Dan Feldman —

Most points in a playoff first quarter since 1997 (as far back as basketballreference has data):

Michael Porter Jr. (tonight): 22
LeBron James (2010 CLE-BOS): 21
Gordon Hayward (2017 UTA-LAC): 21
LeBron James (2018 CLE-BOS): 21
Nikola Jokic (2020 DEN-UTA): 21
Booker with 22 last night as well in the first (6 threes!)

 
Love how that list leaves our Dennis Rodman, a hall to fame player and probably the best defensive player ever. But we made sure to include Mo Williams. Good stuff. 
And have people forgotten how good Pippen was?  I'm not a Pippen fan, per se but I still feel like he's never gotten his due because of the huge Jordan shadow he played in.  I know he was Top-50 all-time but he's still seen as riding Jordan's coattails.  James did have Wade in Miami but the argument that Jordan did it all by himself is wrong.

 
The Lakers are in salary cap hell right now--112 million in guaranteed deals for only five players. No first round picks that can be traded until 2027. Basically zero cap room to sign any meaningful FA. If they stay the course (and this is from ESPN) and try and resign what they have (and this is assuming people want to take min deals to play with Lebron) they are looking at a quarter of a BILLION dollars in salary next year when you figure in the luxury tax. 

Schroeder already turned down a 4 year 84 million deal the Lakers offered, so do you think he is going to take less just to say he played with Lebron. 

Article for those interested link

(it is a ESPN+ article just fyi) 
I can't imagine they want Schroeder back.  

 
Stevens seems like a great fit as GM. might take a bit to learn the role, but he's smart, calculated.. seems like a basketball savant.

i think he'll do well and GM seems like a long-term job vs. the mania of coaching and that stress.
Well, the almost universal hot take among the Boston media is that Stevens is not a great fit for the job and will be somewhere else in a year. It is said he likes coaching, teaching younger players, player development, and X's and O's. It is also said he is not the type to worry about salary cap implications, player exceptions, stashing players overseas, and luxury tax considerations.

So the collective minds felt he would either move on to a premium NBA head coaching gig, a premium college head coaching gig, or if he likes getting kicked upstairs, even a college athletic director gig.

The rationale is Boston really wasn't considering Stevens as a replacement for Ainge and all the names they considered got shot down by the owner. Even though they are denying it, people feel that with Stevens still with 5 years on his contract, they would rather he try a G.M. role than pay him not to coach. Perhaps if he wants to coach a different NBA team they can get something in return for him . . . or if he wants to bolt to a college he can opt out of his contract and the Celtics won't owe him anything.

Another discussion that popped up everywhere was that he lost his locker room and the respect of his players. That lead people to think he would be happier in a college setting than dealing with a bunch of superstar prima donnas that can't be coached in the NBA. The other concern people had is Stevens is a straight shooter that doesn't lie, mislead, deceive, exaggerate, or take advantage of people. Essentially, they said those are great traits for a regular human being but terrible traits to be an NBA G.M.

We'll see how things go and how they play out, but some folks felt he might not even make it to the start of next year's NBA season with the team.

 
I disagree because he is a freak of nature. I think his injuries this year were caused by a short off-season and playing a more condensed schedule. He is going to have a longer off-season this year and more motivation. Father time will eventually catch up to James, but I don't think it will be next year. 
Can I cosign this?

After playing through to the Finals, we watch the Heat and Lakers both fall short in the 1st round.  Coming off the shortest off season in recent memory--maybe ever, these things were going to happen.  

LeBron was being discussed as an MVP candidate, even the front runner at times prior to injury.  Last night, in a blowout, he goes for 29 9 and 7.  He's certainly not LeBron James from 5 years ago.  But he's still a very good basketball player, and I don't think we saw the best version of what LeBron can currently be.  

LeBron's one of the best drivers of the basketball ever.  That wasn't there in this series.  I think that gets better with the off-season to rest and heal the ankle.  

But the other big thing people have always praised is his passing.  And it just didn't matter in this series.  He'd get guys open shots and they'd miss or in a lot of cases be afraid to shoot it.  He had 7 assists last night.  But maybe in a game like this he has 12 if you surround him with guys that can and will shoot.  

 
Can I cosign this?

After playing through to the Finals, we watch the Heat and Lakers both fall short in the 1st round.  Coming off the shortest off season in recent memory--maybe ever, these things were going to happen.  

LeBron was being discussed as an MVP candidate, even the front runner at times prior to injury.  Last night, in a blowout, he goes for 29 9 and 7.  He's certainly not LeBron James from 5 years ago.  But he's still a very good basketball player, and I don't think we saw the best version of what LeBron can currently be.  

LeBron's one of the best drivers of the basketball ever.  That wasn't there in this series.  I think that gets better with the off-season to rest and heal the ankle.  

But the other big thing people have always praised is his passing.  And it just didn't matter in this series.  He'd get guys open shots and they'd miss or in a lot of cases be afraid to shoot it.  He had 7 assists last night.  But maybe in a game like this he has 12 if you surround him with guys that can and will shoot.  
i almost started diddling with a Shakesperean soliloquy watching the King dribbling at the top of the key in the second half, already behind by 20+, wondering why the forces of nature were not bending to his will and how it could be that his army did not consist of Horsemen of the Apocalypse but stainheads and headbands. O wither me, not age, not destiny, but the indignity of pledging the troth of championship moments to Sir Wes of Matthews. Redeem your warrior, o great halls of fame, that such may not be so!

 
Last edited by a moderator:
And have people forgotten how good Pippen was?  I'm not a Pippen fan, per se but I still feel like he's never gotten his due because of the huge Jordan shadow he played in.  I know he was Top-50 all-time but he's still seen as riding Jordan's coattails.  James did have Wade in Miami but the argument that Jordan did it all by himself is wrong.
james also had bosch and a still hot shootin ray allen down there not weighing on anything but just saying that miami team was pretty loaded take that to the bank bromigos 

 
i almost started diddling with a Shakesperean soliloquy watching him standing at the top of the key in the second half, already behind by 20+, wondering why the forces of nature were not bending to his will and how it could be that his army did not consist of Horsemen of the Apocalypse but stainheads and headbands. O wither me, not age, not destiny, but the indignity of pledging the troth of championship moments to Sir Wes of Matthews. Redeem your warrior, o great halls of fame, that such may not be so!
i liked this post but honestly that was just me trying to look smart the only shakespere i know makes fishing rods take that to the bank brohans 

 
Agreed.

I always thought he would be next in like for the Duke job.  Now that Scheyer's got that--I guess Stevens in the front office is going to be a thing.
I'm not sure why anyone would keep coaching over being a GM.   Stevens was making around $4M as the coach.  I bet he pulls in $3M+ as GM.  I've only coached travel and AAU, but I was up night after night thinking through rotations, plays, dealing with players and parents, etc.  Lots and lots of antacid involved.  GM probably only up nights during trade deadlines and the draft.  Don't have to travel if you don't want.  Seems like a cushy lifestyle 300 days per year.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Unseld was certainly a rock and a true leader of the Bullets.  But he did have Hall of Famer Elvin Hayes with him during those 2 Finals years.

I was on the other side of the fence those years (being a Sonics fan).  We had our own version of Unseld (leader/rebounder/non-stats oriented play) in Paul Silas.

The guy that worried me the most on that team was Bobby F-in Dandridge.  His off-the-wrong-foot, leg-splayed, clothesline arc daggers killed the Sonics in those two Finals in the 78 and 79. 
Dandridge put them over the top after a decade of playoff heartbreak. He was playing Dad-ball before it had a name. Their other secret weapon was Tommy Henderson at PG. He was as steady as they came after having manic dudes like Kevin Porter. Kevin Grevey was another fine player in those years.  Unseld, Hayes, and Chenier were on the downside. 

The Bullets' 1975 team was their best and they hit a perfect storm of Bullets-bad, Warriors-playing-out-of-their-minds, Attles-outcoaching-Jones in the Finals.

 
I'm not sure why anyone would keep coaching over being a GM.   Stevens was making around $4M as the coach.  I bet he pulls in $3M+ as GM.  I've only coached travel and AAU, but I was up night after night thinking through rotations, plays, dealing with players and parents, etc.  Lots and lots of antacid involved.  GM probably only up nights during trade deadlines and the draft.  Don't have to travel if you don't want.  Seems like a cushy lifestyle 300 days per year.
how many years did you play college and pro ball in europe its a thing now so you have to tell us take that to the bank bromigo

 
I can't imagine they want Schroeder back.  
I was unable to read the article since I don't have ESPN+, but my understanding is that they pretty much have to bring him back. They're over the cap with or without Schroder, so letting him walk wouldn't enable them to sign someone else -- they'd just lose their starting PG with no replacement. 

 
I was unable to read the article since I don't have ESPN+, but my understanding is that they pretty much have to bring him back. They're over the cap with or without Schroder, so letting him walk wouldn't enable them to sign someone else -- they'd just lose their starting PG with no replacement. 
maybe no replacement would be an upgrade if i am the lakers i run davis gasol drummond and kostas and i guess labron and just turn the clock back about 50 years and go all big all the time and just beat people up they might not win a lot but it would be fun to watch those lardos try to keep up wtih devon brooker and other fast guys take that to the bank brohans 

 
Time to blow the Blazers up and try something different.  Good bye to Stotts, who had a terrific tenure but he can't coach defense and it will cost him his job.  Olshey might get another year - he'd like an extension but that's unlikely - but he'll be under the gun to trade CJ and that's a problem because he places an enormous value on him that the rest of the NBA does not.  

Change is a coming.....I for one welcome it.  Been a good ride, but this iteration of Portland will never surpass the peak of the Western Finals two years ago.  Not when the NBA deck of elite teams is stacked against them.  

 
Time to blow the Blazers up and try something different.  Good bye to Stotts, who had a terrific tenure but he can't coach defense and it will cost him his job.  Olshey might get another year - he'd like an extension but that's unlikely - but he'll be under the gun to trade CJ and that's a problem because he places an enormous value on him that the rest of the NBA does not.  

Change is a coming.....I for one welcome it.  Been a good ride, but this iteration of Portland will never surpass the peak of the Western Finals two years ago.  Not when the NBA deck of elite teams is stacked against them.  
They gotta keep Lillard, you think?

Would be crazy to move him imo.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I went in and checked out the last couple pages of the gambling thread.  Good lord what's wrong in there?  Like someone hid a dead fish. 

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top