Jayrod
Footballguy
No one will be easy to beat from here on out in either conference (except for maybe MIL?). Clippers have the better player, but the Jazz are the better team.
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2020-21 NBA *Playoffs* Thread: Bucks are the champs and you can take that to the bank bromigos (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
- Start date
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
wasnt able to watch the nightcap yesterday & am not a big Clips fan but, since my midseason Knicks eval played out, i'll restate what i said months ago about the Jazz. called them a team that was a LOT easier to figure out in 6-7 games than they are for a single match. you've been warned...
identikit
Footballguy
Jayrod
Footballguy
Figuring them out is one thing. Beating them is another. They have superior talent from 1-10 than most teams do. Sure Kawhi is better than Mitchell and George is better than everyone else on the Jazz, but you have to be able to execute schemes against Conley and Bogdonavic and Ingles and Clarkson and O'Neal as well while trying to make Rudy a non-factor. That is a lot of guys to keep track of and contain over a 7 game series. Any one of 6 guys can cause a lot of problems for a defense.
ETA: Also, the Clips have Lue as a head coach. Not sure how good he is at mid-series adjustments. From what I've seen in his career so far, not very...we'll see. I believe Monty Williams will have a lot more influence if the Jazz face the Suns.
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Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
might be a little early to dismiss the Nuggets....I realize they don't get a lot of run in here.....but feels like most are handing the Suns the series already......
TripItUp
Footballguy
Series definitely not over and I expect the Nuggets to win some games in the series.
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mr. furley
Footballguy
we live near a college and it feels like NBA jerseys have been very, very popular the last couple years. any time go by campus and there's a party or social gathering of college kids, most of the guys are wearing NBA jerseys.
i've seen this at other colleges too in the last couple years, but i'm so out of touch with what's cool these days that i'm not sure what's happening or why.
NBA fines Heat president Pat Riley for comments about LeBron James
$25,000 for tampering. The fine is equal to a cup of coffee for you and me. And it was a misunderstanding about the question.
>>The NBA on Wednesday fined Miami Heat president Pat Riley $25,000 for seemingly innocuous comments about Los Angeles Lakers and former Heat superstar LeBron James, announced that Riley was being disciplined for “violating the league’s anti-tampering rule.”
During Dan Le Batard’s 24-hour streaming marathon on Friday and Saturday, Riley was asked by a Le Batard staffer about leaving a key out for Dwyane Wade, now a part owner of the Utah Jazz.
But Riley thought the question was about James, who spent four seasons with the Heat before returning to the Cleveland Cavaliers in July 2014.
I would leave the key under the doormat if he would call me and let me know that he’s coming,” Riley said. “I would do that, but I doubt very much that key…That key is rusted now.
LeBron, look, he’s one of the greatest of all time, and for four years down here, if we want to go back and remember what those four years were like, it was four years in the Finals, four years of excitement, two world championships…It was the best time for the Heat. So I wish him nothing but the best, and if he ever wanted to come back, I’ll put a new shiny key under the mat.”
Riley then said his comments “will just get me fined for tampering” by NBA commissioner Adam Silver.<<
$25,000 for tampering. The fine is equal to a cup of coffee for you and me. And it was a misunderstanding about the question.
>>The NBA on Wednesday fined Miami Heat president Pat Riley $25,000 for seemingly innocuous comments about Los Angeles Lakers and former Heat superstar LeBron James, announced that Riley was being disciplined for “violating the league’s anti-tampering rule.”
During Dan Le Batard’s 24-hour streaming marathon on Friday and Saturday, Riley was asked by a Le Batard staffer about leaving a key out for Dwyane Wade, now a part owner of the Utah Jazz.
But Riley thought the question was about James, who spent four seasons with the Heat before returning to the Cleveland Cavaliers in July 2014.
I would leave the key under the doormat if he would call me and let me know that he’s coming,” Riley said. “I would do that, but I doubt very much that key…That key is rusted now.
LeBron, look, he’s one of the greatest of all time, and for four years down here, if we want to go back and remember what those four years were like, it was four years in the Finals, four years of excitement, two world championships…It was the best time for the Heat. So I wish him nothing but the best, and if he ever wanted to come back, I’ll put a new shiny key under the mat.”
Riley then said his comments “will just get me fined for tampering” by NBA commissioner Adam Silver.<<
mr. furley
Footballguy
https://www.reddit.com/r/MkeBucks/comments/nvyiap/milwaukees_lackluster_first_quarter_offence_in/
links aplenty in the post (wtf, no spoiler tags?)
Milwaukee's lackluster first quarter offence in Game 2 against Brooklyn: Giannis Antetokounmpo's half court difficulties, subpar spacing, and inexplicable pull-up transition Giannis threes (self.MkeBucks)
submitted an hour ago by johnny-sacc
The Milwaukee Bucks scored an abominable 86 points in their evisceration at the hands of the Nets and are off to a disappointing 0-2 start to the series. They aren't completely dead in the water with the next two games in Milwaukee, but losing either will sink their title hopes to the deep, dark depths of one of the more forgettable Great Lakes for the third consecutive postseason of the Budenholzer era.
Needless to say, the Nets were on fire in the first. They scored 36 points on 14/23 FG (4/7 3PT) and 4/5 from the line. They also kept themselves to only one turnover in the quarter. Of course, limiting turnovers and making shots have the added benefit of limiting the opposing team's transition opportunities, forcing them into far less efficient half court settings. Case in point: Milwaukee scored 9 points off of 9 Nets turnovers; the Nets scored 23 points on 16 Bucks turnovers. Speaking of half court...
Giannis Antetokounmpo is still a severely limited half court offensive player
This fact reared its ugly head in Milwaukee's dismal 19 point first quarter. Whenever Giannis had the ball in his hands in the half court, things were not pretty. All four of his first quarter shot attempts were jumpers, with the closest being an 11 foot fadeaway that he of course bricked. Alarm sirens blared in Bucks fans' heads when they realized that he attempted zero (0) shots at the rim in the first and that the best they could muster with Blake Griffin as his primary defender were four pitiful jumpers:
If Giannis Antetokounmpo is gonna be posting up Blake Griffin, the end result better not be this Minnesota Wiggins-esque turnaround 13 footer. He was probably going for another disastrous turnaround jumper here but a timely double and recovery from Bruce Brown forces both the pass and Middleton brick (lots of those so far this series).
We again see an awful pullup jumper, which is alright for Kevin Durant to take but not a shooter as bad as Antetokounmpo is.
Here we see probably the worst shot of the quarter: a top of the arc pullup Giannis three pointer with 15 seconds left on the clock. Middleton messes up the spacing a bit with his inexplicable foray inside the arc, but even then a Giannis drive would've almost certainly triggered weakside help from Durant and collapsed the defence to create other opportunities.
The one time Giannis actually manages to truck Griffin back to the restricted area, he travels and turns it over.
In the third he also took two inexplicable transition pull-up threes as if he's Kevin Durant. I get that Griffin was sagging off you, but the whole point of that strategy is to bait him into the awful shots he took.
Giannis taking jumpers is obviously terrible offence. Much ado was made of his 49 point performance in the first of Milwaukee's back-to-back May matchups against the Harden-less Nets, but less was said about how he scored those points. The Nets played DeAndre Jordan in those games (who has gotten hit with two DNP - Trash designations this series) and the Nets sagged off of Giannis heavily. He made them pay that time, shooting 4/8 from three and 9/18 (!) from mid-range. Most of the time, however, a Giannis jumper is a great thing for an opposing defence.
Bad spacing and other offensive ####tery
The first quarter was a nightmare for the Bucks. They scored 19 points on 22 shots after not attempting even a single bucket in the restricted area. This is simply unacceptable against a lineup of Irving/Brown/Harris/Durant/Griffin.
The first Bucks play of the game was a Holiday/Lopez PNR that ended with a Holiday turnaround fade with 12 seconds on the clock. If the play is snuffed out by the Nets, okay, but this type of shot should only occur when absolutely necessary.
Bucks in the dunker's spot served mostly to clog the lane:
This was partially responsible for one of the bad Giannis jumpers. Durant is able to easily load up and Giannis misses the open Forbes when Brown also joins in, a find that a superior passer might've made.
Jrue Holiday meandering in the dunker's spot unleashed Landry Shamet's formidable Waluigi help defence at the rim.
Better things (could've) happened when things were spaced out to the three-point line:
This corner three was a tough make but Lopez had a window to shoot before his hesitation.
Giannis turns it over on this play but if he hadn't travelled, he could've possibly punished the help Durant provided. However, one of the flaws in Giannis' game is that he doesn't have the best court vision. He opts for the turnaround hook shot instead of passing out to a wide open Lopez. We should note that this pass is risky, but high-risk, high-reward passing is a capability of many elite passers such as LeBron James and Nikola Jokic.
Some other things that are less noteworthy include Khris Middleton's pitiful performance. His contribution to the first quarter 17 point deficit was 0/6 shooting from the field to go along with two turnovers. Turrible. The Bucks shooting 8/27 from three and only attempting 9 free throws (hitting 4) is also pathetic. Some of these things should correct themselves somewhat, but they might also not. Given how important each playoff game is and the hole the Bucks find themselves in as we approach Game 3, the Bucks better pray that it's the former.
That's all for today. Let me know if you enjoyed it or if I have no idea what I'm talking about. All feedback is appreciated.
links aplenty in the post (wtf, no spoiler tags?)
Milwaukee's lackluster first quarter offence in Game 2 against Brooklyn: Giannis Antetokounmpo's half court difficulties, subpar spacing, and inexplicable pull-up transition Giannis threes (self.MkeBucks)
submitted an hour ago by johnny-sacc
The Milwaukee Bucks scored an abominable 86 points in their evisceration at the hands of the Nets and are off to a disappointing 0-2 start to the series. They aren't completely dead in the water with the next two games in Milwaukee, but losing either will sink their title hopes to the deep, dark depths of one of the more forgettable Great Lakes for the third consecutive postseason of the Budenholzer era.
Needless to say, the Nets were on fire in the first. They scored 36 points on 14/23 FG (4/7 3PT) and 4/5 from the line. They also kept themselves to only one turnover in the quarter. Of course, limiting turnovers and making shots have the added benefit of limiting the opposing team's transition opportunities, forcing them into far less efficient half court settings. Case in point: Milwaukee scored 9 points off of 9 Nets turnovers; the Nets scored 23 points on 16 Bucks turnovers. Speaking of half court...
Giannis Antetokounmpo is still a severely limited half court offensive player
This fact reared its ugly head in Milwaukee's dismal 19 point first quarter. Whenever Giannis had the ball in his hands in the half court, things were not pretty. All four of his first quarter shot attempts were jumpers, with the closest being an 11 foot fadeaway that he of course bricked. Alarm sirens blared in Bucks fans' heads when they realized that he attempted zero (0) shots at the rim in the first and that the best they could muster with Blake Griffin as his primary defender were four pitiful jumpers:
If Giannis Antetokounmpo is gonna be posting up Blake Griffin, the end result better not be this Minnesota Wiggins-esque turnaround 13 footer. He was probably going for another disastrous turnaround jumper here but a timely double and recovery from Bruce Brown forces both the pass and Middleton brick (lots of those so far this series).
We again see an awful pullup jumper, which is alright for Kevin Durant to take but not a shooter as bad as Antetokounmpo is.
Here we see probably the worst shot of the quarter: a top of the arc pullup Giannis three pointer with 15 seconds left on the clock. Middleton messes up the spacing a bit with his inexplicable foray inside the arc, but even then a Giannis drive would've almost certainly triggered weakside help from Durant and collapsed the defence to create other opportunities.
The one time Giannis actually manages to truck Griffin back to the restricted area, he travels and turns it over.
In the third he also took two inexplicable transition pull-up threes as if he's Kevin Durant. I get that Griffin was sagging off you, but the whole point of that strategy is to bait him into the awful shots he took.
Giannis taking jumpers is obviously terrible offence. Much ado was made of his 49 point performance in the first of Milwaukee's back-to-back May matchups against the Harden-less Nets, but less was said about how he scored those points. The Nets played DeAndre Jordan in those games (who has gotten hit with two DNP - Trash designations this series) and the Nets sagged off of Giannis heavily. He made them pay that time, shooting 4/8 from three and 9/18 (!) from mid-range. Most of the time, however, a Giannis jumper is a great thing for an opposing defence.
Bad spacing and other offensive ####tery
The first quarter was a nightmare for the Bucks. They scored 19 points on 22 shots after not attempting even a single bucket in the restricted area. This is simply unacceptable against a lineup of Irving/Brown/Harris/Durant/Griffin.
The first Bucks play of the game was a Holiday/Lopez PNR that ended with a Holiday turnaround fade with 12 seconds on the clock. If the play is snuffed out by the Nets, okay, but this type of shot should only occur when absolutely necessary.
Bucks in the dunker's spot served mostly to clog the lane:
This was partially responsible for one of the bad Giannis jumpers. Durant is able to easily load up and Giannis misses the open Forbes when Brown also joins in, a find that a superior passer might've made.
Jrue Holiday meandering in the dunker's spot unleashed Landry Shamet's formidable Waluigi help defence at the rim.
Better things (could've) happened when things were spaced out to the three-point line:
This corner three was a tough make but Lopez had a window to shoot before his hesitation.
Giannis turns it over on this play but if he hadn't travelled, he could've possibly punished the help Durant provided. However, one of the flaws in Giannis' game is that he doesn't have the best court vision. He opts for the turnaround hook shot instead of passing out to a wide open Lopez. We should note that this pass is risky, but high-risk, high-reward passing is a capability of many elite passers such as LeBron James and Nikola Jokic.
Some other things that are less noteworthy include Khris Middleton's pitiful performance. His contribution to the first quarter 17 point deficit was 0/6 shooting from the field to go along with two turnovers. Turrible. The Bucks shooting 8/27 from three and only attempting 9 free throws (hitting 4) is also pathetic. Some of these things should correct themselves somewhat, but they might also not. Given how important each playoff game is and the hole the Bucks find themselves in as we approach Game 3, the Bucks better pray that it's the former.
That's all for today. Let me know if you enjoyed it or if I have no idea what I'm talking about. All feedback is appreciated.
Last edited by a moderator:
mr. furley
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Word on the street (well, talk radio) is that Jayson Tatum and Brad Stevens butted heads and didn’t get along. That probably had a lot to do with Stevens moving to the front office. I wonder what that means for Tatum long-term and if he will look to bolt when he is first able vs. re-upping with the Celtics again. I don’t think Stevens will still be around in 2025 when Tatum is up for a new contract, so it may not matter. I suspect we will hear about lots of dysfunction with the C’s from the last few years as things leak out.
Insein
Footballguy
It's funny cause Morey got a $75k fine for a tweet supposedly tampering with Steph Curry. It was made in response to Steph congratulating his brother. It simply said "Join him" in a joking way.
identikit
Footballguy
Desert_Power
Footballguy
identikit
Footballguy
Desert_Power
Footballguy
I have a sweet Bobcats Al Jefferson jersey cause my buddy bought a L that was 2X long instead of 2XL and I bought it off him cause he couldn't return it. It's like a dressI'd need Big Country size
identikit
Footballguy
Frostillicus
Footballguy
trader jake
Footballguy
Gr00vus
Footballguy
identikit
Footballguy
Just read that D'Antoni's in the mix too.
Cannot stand his non-defense playing philosophy
Ugh.
Anyone else with a better opinion of him?
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modogg
Footballguy
pretty sure that happened in the season, seemed very evident for a lot of the games where the team really seemed to ignore Brad and played quite terribly on the court
Anarchy99
Footballguy
It came out today that both the team and Kemba Walker are mutually interested in a divorce. As I mentioned a few days ago, what would BOS have to give up to move him?
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Still amazed the Nuggets got past the Blazers with a backcourt of Rivers and Campazzo. If Porter doesn't pick it up, it might be a quick series here.
Suns defense up front might be the most underrated in the league. If they continue to get anywhere near as close as much offensive output from Crowder/Bridges, they're going to be tough to beat in the West.
Suns defense up front might be the most underrated in the league. If they continue to get anywhere near as close as much offensive output from Crowder/Bridges, they're going to be tough to beat in the West.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
At what position are we giving the Jazz an advantage vs the Suns?Suns haven't come against a team that has their 2nd best player healthy
modogg
Footballguy
interesting that Kemba mentioned he wanted to move on too. that makes close to every top other player they had for last 4 years make it a point to want to leave the team if true. pretty crazy...
and will be interesting what they will have to part with. Kemba is expensive, but there will be some needy teams looking for a PG. my guess with cost may come down to what a physical shows on his knees
Frostillicus
Footballguy
If get Suns/Jazz we might actually get a game where neither team scores 100.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
And I’d disagree on at least 3 of the 4.
I’d concede center although that’s closer than most would realize.
which is why the Suns own the Jazz this year.
Deamon
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
Gobert wins DPOY. Well deserved. He's now won it 3 of the last 4 years which is wild.
Gobert- 464 Voting Points
Simmons- 287 Voting Points
Green- 76 Voting Points
Bam- 31 Voting Points... including one voter who gave him a 1st place vote.
Giannis 12
Capella 10
Embiid 7
Holiday 6
Turner 3
Butler 2
Pope 1
Thybulle 1
Gobert- 464 Voting Points
Simmons- 287 Voting Points
Green- 76 Voting Points
Bam- 31 Voting Points... including one voter who gave him a 1st place vote.
Giannis 12
Capella 10
Embiid 7
Holiday 6
Turner 3
Butler 2
Pope 1
Thybulle 1
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I'm not sure who among Bucks, Jazz, Sixers, Clippers, Suns is the 2nd best team but before Game 1 of MIL-BKN I think there's a decent chance the Bucks would have won a poll among those 5 teams as being 2nd best behind the Nets (if we take for granted they at #1). After watching the Nets pound MIL for two games I think my take is that's been the most impressive thing so far in these playoffs. Further - I think the only team that could match them with firepower and a star is the Clippers. I'm not ready to rule out Kawhi and think they would present the stiffest challenge to the Nets (but if George averages 4-17 the rest of the series they aren't winning).
AAABatteries
Footballguy
And yes, Mitchell is a star and maybe you could call him a superstar but he will need to prove it by at least getting to Finals. Kawhi has been very measured in these playoffs so far. I could see him going off for 40 in the next game and them splitting in Utah.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
With no Harden, I think the Sixers would give the Nets the toughest challenge, as Simmons could slow down Irving and the Nets have no one to stop Embid. With that said, I'm not sure it's a given that the Sixers get by the Hawks with so many shooters that have the ability to get blistering hot.
If Harden is back by the ECF, I don't see how anyone stops the Nets. They have some really nice players outside of the Big 3, especially with Blake re-emerging.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Maybe all of this Jazz vs Suns talk is a bit premature as they both still have another series to win first and both need to stay healthy. But since premature discussion is what we do here, this is my position by position matchup comparison for Suns/Jazz:
PG - CP3 vs Conley - Paul had a better season and right now he is playing great. He has also has had the better career, is a leader and his ast/TO ratio is unreal in the playoffs. Plus Conley isn't even playing right now and will have a bit of rust to shake off. If he doesn't make it back, they have started Ingles and slid Mitchell over to point (but all signs point to him coming back soon so I'm not considering him to be out for this analysis). But even with Conley, I give the clear advantage to the Suns.
SG - Booker vs Mitchell - These guys are both the go-to studs and can fill it up on offense. However, I think Mitchell is a better defender and can slow down Booker more than Booker can slow down Mitchell. It is very, very close, but I give the slight advantage here to the Jazz.
SF - Bridges vs Bogdonavic - Bogdonavic avgs more PPG. Outside of that (including advanced stats), Bridges is better across the board. He is more efficient, a better rebounder, passer and defender. This one actually isn't even close, IMO. Advantage Suns.
PF - Crowder vs O'Neale - Both of these guys bring toughness and do a lot to help the team besides score. Crowder is a better scorer and O'Neale is a better rebounder and defender. They split the advanced metrics and while they are 2 very different players, I can't find a big reason to rank one guy over the other. Crowder has more experience, but O'Neale has been more reliable, starting 71 games this season. I call this one Even.
C - Gobert vs Ayton - Three time DPOY Gobert is no joke and a legit anchor to this team. I am a huge fan of his and he is the key to the Jazz's post-season. He is #1 this year in total blocks & rebounds. Ayton is a better scorer, I'll give him that, and he is a plus defender in his own right but he is a clear notch below Gobert in overall value and effect on the game. Advantage Jazz.
Bench - Craig/Payne/Johnson/Saric vs Clarkson/Ingles/Favors/Niang - Honestly, as I look at this my original thought was that it was close, but the Jazz have several advantages here, IMO. Clarkson was 6th man of the year because he can absolutely fill it up and doesn't need any help to get good looks. Payne & Craig have been scoring very good off of the bench, but neither are in quite the same category as Clarkson. Ingles is also a threat to off for 20+pts on any given night. However, the biggest issue for the Suns is the lack of a legit big man off of the bench. All of their guys can shoot 3's, but Favors is a very good defensive center and rebounder and Johnson just doesn't bring much more to the table than Craig other than a bit more height. Saric has been shaky from what I've seen and won't see much time in close games. Niang has been slightly better, but is still on the back end of the rotation. All that said, with the scoring capability of Clarkson and the fact that the Suns have no one to really back up Ayton I have to give the bench advantage to the Jazz.
Coaching - Williams vs Snyder - I like both of these guys a lot and both could have been named Coach of the Year for their team's accomplishments this season. However, since I'm basically having to split hairs here I think Snyder has the upper hand. He has had a longer tenure with the Jazz, has coached in the playoffs for 5 straight seasons and has been to the 2nd round 3 times. Williams just won his first playoff series in 3 tries this season and has never coached in the 2nd round of the playoffs and the last season he coached a team in the playoffs was 4 years ago. Also, the Jazz finished #1 this year (despite going 0-3 vs the Suns this year...but that's not overly impressive as I broke those down earlier in the thread). All said, this is another close one but I give the advantage to the Jazz.
Add in the fact that the Jazz would have a legit home court advantage in the series I give a slight advantage to the Jazz and think they win the series in 7 games. However, if Conley misses time I think things could swing in favor of the Suns as the Jazz bench advantage decreases and the advantage at the guard positions swings solidly in the Suns favor. Also, there is a real risk to the Jazz getting beat in this round by the Clippers. The Suns are firmly in control and I'd be surprised if they don't close out the Nuggets in 5. I really hope we get to see the Jazz/Suns because I think it would be a great series and I prefer both of them over the Clippers.
TripItUp
Footballguy
I rank the remaining teams as follows
1. Nets (assuming Harden plays again this postseason)
2. Suns
3. Jazz
4. Clippers (difficult to rank due to inconsistency)
5. Hawks
6. Sixers (difficult to rank due to Embiid injury)
7. Bucks
8. Nuggets
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Frostillicus
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
Slight disagreement on bench and coach. It is obvious you are an astute viewer because most casual fans don't realize just how good Bridges is. He is working his way into close to a max contract and most fans have barely seen him play. So props on the SF call.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Bridges is a very good 3 and d guy, but he isn't even in the same galaxy as a max guy.
