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January 6th - what will happen? (7 Viewers)

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Mile High said:
My daughter was listening to a video last night of a guy saying he thought it was ok to go into the capital building because the police opened the gates for them.
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that argument works to get you up the stairs.  not to break through windows and locked doors into the building itself.  although, those that came in later can say all they saw was an open door i guess.

 
Sinn Fein said:
BTW - arrests starting to pile up.  

WV GOP State Rep arrested.

The guy who posed in Pelosi's office - arrested - charged with entering and remaining on restricting grounds, violent entry, and theft of public property.
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He should be charged with sedition.  It may be tough to convict but it should be called what it was.

 
NEW: FBI Assistant Director Steven D'Antuono was just asked if the FBI has uncovered any efforts by people associated with Antifa to "frame" Trump supporters for the violence at the Capitol.

He said, "We have no indication of that, at this time."

 
Sea Duck said:
This is why the vast majority of demonstraters won't be prosecuted, IMO. Basically, anyone who didn't go beyond "trespass" is going to get off the hook. They're going to argue that they had tacit permission from both the President and from the police (who opened the gates).
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Who is going to buy that?  I doubt very much Garland will.

 
They took a dump on American democracy — literally.

Some of the unhinged pro-Trump rioters who stormed the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday defecated inside the historic building and “tracked” their feces in several hallways, the Daily News has learned.

A source close to Sen. Chuck Schumer said staffers to the New York Democrat found out about the fecal fiasco on Thursday.

The vile attackers, whose violent invasion of the Capitol left five people dead, apparently went No. 2 in a bathroom and then smeared their extremist excrement around the building, leaving behind brownish “foot-prints,” the source said.

“It looked like they tracked it around,” said the person.

Gotta be Elk-Man, right?

 
AAABatteries said:
Sea Duck said:
This is why the vast majority of demonstraters won't be prosecuted, IMO. Basically, anyone who didn't go beyond "trespass" is going to get off the hook. They're going to argue that they had tacit permission from both the President and from the police (who opened the gates).
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Who is going to buy that?  I doubt very much Garland will.
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A jury of their peers might buy it.

Plus, I suspect that we're going to start seeing a lot of pushback from Republican lawmakers. They are going to be faced with a difficult choice: do they side with the "law and order" mantra that they clung to (cynically?) throughout their political career? Or do they side with the voters who put them in office and are now demanding that their friends and sympathizers be let off the hook?

 
Sinn Fein said:
NEW: FBI Assistant Director Steven D'Antuono was just asked if the FBI has uncovered any efforts by people associated with Antifa to "frame" Trump supporters for the violence at the Capitol.

He said, "We have no indication of that, at this time."
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Poor Steve, Trump's probably about to fire him.

 
one of the strangest things to me was seeing rioters with blue lives matter flags breaking through police lines and busting past police seems to be a little confused take that to the bank brohans 

 
 haven’t seen any proof of antifa promoting violence

but that narrative continues to exist

so you have to ask yourself why

because if people believe antifa incited riots, that means trump and like minded agitators didn’t and let’s them off the hook

meant to post this hear instead of other thread

 
phandango said:
An article I read about impeachment brought up an interesting point. If the Senate convicted Trump, it would prevent him from running in 2024. If you're a Republican senator with presidential aspirations in four years, do you vote to convict in an effort to ensure Trump can't run, or cater to his base by voting to acquit?

In any case, I don't think there are 20 Republicans who would vote to convict, but it could be a free-for-all if Biden doesn't run again. 
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Somewhat untested waters, but historically conviction/disqualification have been handled differently (super majority for removal, simple majority for disqualification. If this precedent works for presidents, there could be an acquittal which is also a disqualification from holding future office. 

Since ratification, four troublesome questions have arisen under this clause. The first was whether the Senate may impose the sanctions of removal and disqualification separately and, if so, how. The Senate claims that it may impose these sanctions by separate votes: (1) removal, involving the ouster of an official from the office he occupies at the time of his impeachment trial, and (2) disqualification barring the person from ever serving again in the federal government. In 1862 and 1913, the Senate took separate votes to remove and disqualify judges West Humphreys and Robert Archbald, respectively. For each judge, a supermajority first voted to convict followed by a simple majority vote to disqualify. The Senate defended this practice on the ground that the clause mentioning disqualification does not specify the requisite vote for its imposition, although Article II, Section 4, mentions removal as following conviction. The Senate in 1862 and 1913 considered that the supermajority requirement was designed as a safeguard against removal that, once satisfied, did not extend to the separate imposition of disqualification.
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timschochet said:
I’m really torn on this impeachment question. I can’t blame any of the Democrats who are pushing for this: all of their arguments, IMO, are compelling and valid. What he did was wrong, it deserves impeachment and removal, it’s not safe to have him in there another 12 days, and if Republicans don’t agree let’s at least put them on record. I agree with ALL of that. 
On the other hand, it will effectively prevent Biden’s attempt to heal or at least make it a thousand times more difficult. It risks turning Trump into a victim or martyr. And McConnell will simply ignore it and run out the clock anyhow. 
I simply don’t know. 
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Practically speaking, Trump has less power now than at any other time in his presidency. I think officials would be quick to refuse any crazy orders and resign. I think Trump has given up now anyway. I’m not worried about these last 12 days.

 
The Dude said:
 haven’t seen any proof of antifa promoting violence

but that narrative continues to exist

so you have to ask yourself why

because if people believe antifa incited riots, that means trump and like minded agitators didn’t and let’s them off the hook

meant to post this hear instead of other thread
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Sure it is but let's not give it any credence by discussing it any further - it's nonsense.

Although I guess if Gaetz and others continue to promote it, maybe we need to keep exposing it as lies.  My fear is that there actually was one bad actor there and if that nut job gets exposed then it will add fuel to the fire.

 
parasaurolophus said:
The vast majority of summer protests were nowhere near the scope of this. Like not even same planet. I have zero issues saying that. 

But it isnt really a good argument what happened at CHAZ isnt pretty darn close. And was basically allowed to continue because the mayor took an anti trump stance so it was clearly a political issue.

I mean you had an area of the city partitioned off with armed guards. You had businesses held captive, people that lived there restricted. They took over city hall at least once. You had an internal security force that mowed down a jeep out for a joyride, killing one of the teens with a fatal head shot, injured the other. They took over a police station. I mean wtf?!?!

Was a single person prosecuted for anything? 

I dont bring this up to defend what happened yesterday. I want all of them charged. Every one. If they were caught on camera stealing letterhead, boom, theft. You threw a pipe? Federal prison you go. Treapass for you. Trespass for you. I mean come on, look at the DA thread I started? You think I want less people charged??

I bring it up because I find some of the talk a bit annoying, especially concerning the response of police. And I am bringing it up in what is mostly a fairly private forum and i am bringing up to the people that I converse with daily. 

It isnt like I am bombarding parler trying to tell these fools what they did was a-ok because blm did some stuff too. 
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CHAZ/CHOP had nothing to do with Trump.  

 
Juxtatarot said:
Practically speaking, Trump has less power now than at any other time in his presidency. I think officials would be quick to refuse any crazy orders and resign. I think Trump has given up now anyway. I’m not worried about these last 12 days.
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I'm only moderately worried about what Trump may do - they were interviewing somebody this morning who pointed out that the idea of Trump nuking somebody is pretty silly but if somebody attacks us, who is CIC and how does he react.  So, I'll hedge my bets and say I'm not too worried about something Trump starts but rather how Trump may react to something.  Either way - I still say get him out of there now.  Today.

 
So...honest question here because I just don't know...

Can the Department of Defense change nuclear codes and NOT give them to the President? 

 
Juxtatarot said:
Practically speaking, Trump has less power now than at any other time in his presidency. I think officials would be quick to refuse any crazy orders and resign. I think Trump has given up now anyway. I’m not worried about these last 12 days.
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This is actually a good reason to impeach.

You don't want a government with a bunch of people deciding on their own, what orders to follow, and what orders to ignore.  You want someone in charge that you trust, and that the people will follow their directives.

 
the rover said:
Have reliable information that one of the guys that ended up on the floor of the senate is a retired 2 star general and that the FBI has identified him.   This should come out in the news in the next day or two.
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Thats been in twitter for a while.

There was a pretty good picture of him - in full gear, including helmet.

 
Sinn Fein said:
This is actually a good reason to impeach.

You don't want a government with a bunch of people deciding on their own, what orders to follow, and what orders to ignore.  You want someone in charge that you trust, and that the people will follow their directives.
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I was about to post the same thing.  If @Juxtatarot is right (and I think he probably is), it means that the US is basically without a functioning constitutional government right now.  It also implies that the military is bypassing the civilian chain of command to make decisions on its own, which is less than completely ideal if you're worried about a coup.

This is one of many reasons why Trump must be removed from office through impeachment or the 25th amendment.

 
Death Bytes said:
No it's not pretty close. It's not close at all. 

Not one of the riots this summer exposed a weakness in our national defense. Not one of them did. Movies and TV shows have been written using the idea of congress being taken out in it's entirety. It was even the butt of the joke in "Invaders from Mars" when Jack Nicholson's line said "Two out of three branches of our government still exist... and that's not bad." These people shared for weeks what they were going to do on numerous socially media sights, and if one... just one of our enemies had put two and two together, there would have been half a dozen additional people in that crowd with backpacks that got into the Capitol and it would be a shell right now, and Designated Survivor would be more than a show we watch on Netflix.

So no, you've provided nothing to me to even remotely move me towards the position that they're close... not even pretty close.  
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This is a really strange argument. You pretty much just said...

This could have actually been so much worse if another group of people participated so therefore that makes it so much worse what this group did. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
The mayor's response sure did. 
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Response to what?   

I live in the area.  I was there.  I know the history.  I have friends that own houses in the area that was taken over.   It had nothing to do with Trump.  

Mayor Durkin is an incompetent buffoon, but the person really driving that clown show was Kshama Sawant, who is at the head of most of the stupid things in Seattle.

 
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ChiefD said:
So...honest question here because I just don't know...

Can the Department of Defense change nuclear codes and NOT give them to the President? 
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I've heard the following via word-of-mouth a few times over the years, and someone on CNN yesterday morning was discussing it as well:

There were four days between Richard Nixon realizing he didn't have the votes in the Senate to avoid acquittal (8/5/1974 upon the public release of "the smoking gun" tape) and his effective resignation date (8/9/1974). Over those four days, White House Chief of Staff Alexander Haig instituted strict orders over several federal departments that any command given or request made by Nixon needed to be cleared through Haig. This was meant to be the fail-safe against Nixon doing something irreversible (e.g. launching nukes).

I believe (but don't know) that Trump is in a similar state now that Nixon was then. I believe (but don't know) that, for instance, Trump no longer has unchecked executive control over any federal department.

 

 
the rover said:
Response to what?   

I live in the area.  I was there.  I know the history.  I have friends that own houses in the area that was taken over.   It had nothing to do with Trump.
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DURKAN: So, I know it will shock you that the President is perhaps not giving an accurate or truthful picture.

We've got four blocks in Seattle that you just saw pictures of that is more like a block party atmosphere. It's not an armed takeover. It's not a military junta. We will - we will make sure that we can restore this.

But we have block parties and the like in this part of Seattle all the time. It's known for that. So, I think the President - number one, there is no threat right now to the public. And we're looking - we're taking that very seriously. We're meeting with businesses and residents.

But what the President threatened is illegal and unconstitutional. And the fact that he can think he can just tweet that, and not have ramifications is just wrong.
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His comments clearly led to her defending it. 

Also this in response to him saying he would clear it out. I dont remember what his exact tweet was since it was deleted(or unavailable for another reason). 

Make us all safe. Go back to your bunker.
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