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January 6th - what will happen? (6 Viewers)

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Sinn Fein said:
Couple of big names arrested today:

Jacob Chansley - AKA Elk man

Adam Johnson - AKA Pelosi Podium guy. 

Johnson in particular will be trading in a life as a stay-at-home dad, while his wife works as a doctor, to life as a stay in jail dad.
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This guy lives about 15 miles south of me. He doesn’t look familiar. Hmmm..

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1347946852591824897
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Interesting tweets below on that link.

From Kyle Griffin: "If impeaching Trump would "further divide the country," as Republicans claim, then what did the GOP think challenging Biden's election win would do?"

A funny one from Dave Brown: "This is the first time a sitting president has been banned from Twitter going back to 1812"  :lmao:

 
tri-man 47 said:
If Trump pardons them, I think that seals the deal to having him removed.  Even if he waits until the 19th, an impeachment would take away his pension, and he could be barred from any future political office.  I'm not convinced he's willing to trade his political future for an elk man.
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He was motivated to make a statement to avoid accountability in a court of law.  I think pardons would broaden his accountability - and he’s not going to risk that for anyone - and turn his back on supporters again

 
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Sinn Fein said:
Statement from WV State Rep who was arrested for storming the Capitol.

It rings true and honest to me.  I hope he recovers from this incident professionally and personally.  He made a mistake, there are consequences, but there is also forgiveness and moving forward when you acknowledge those mistakes earnestly.
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I'm impressed, seriously.  In one of Joe's threads there was some discussion earlier around repentence (or mea culpas, to use the secular vernacular) and grace.  Speaking only for me, I wholeheartedly welcome this guy back into my good graces.  I'll leave justice to the professionals.

Oh, and his mom is awesome too. 

ETA:  or grandma.  I have issues with confusion.

 
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Sinn Fein said:
Statement from WV State Rep who was arrested for storming the Capitol.

It rings true and honest to me.  I hope he recovers from this incident professionally and personally.  He made a mistake, there are consequences, but there is also forgiveness and moving forward when you acknowledge those mistakes earnestly.
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he never admits what he did was wrong and only apologizes to a small set of people and not america and doesn’t acknowledge that what he did threatened democracy so basically i have a hard time finding it a meaningful apology or giving him credit take that to the bank brohans  

 
tri-man 47 said:
If Trump pardons them, I think that seals the deal to having him removed.  Even if he waits until the 19th, an impeachment would take away his pension, and he could be barred from any future political office.  I'm not convinced he's willing to trade his political future for an elk man.
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Pardoning insurrectionists storming the Capitol would represent a compound fracture to the concept of checks and balances.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Oh, I was never in favor of not getting his due in court - grandma, or no grandma.

But, as I posted later, I may have grossly overestimated his character.  
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Sorry if I misunderstood. Your first mistake was paying attention to the words that come out of a politician's mouth. At this point in our politics, only actions matter.

 
GoBirds said:
Wait....you mean they weren’t actively trying to take hostages using the zip ties like many in here claimed? 
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Nah, dozens (more?) were filmed violently yelling hang Mike Pence, not take Mike Pence hostage.

 
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Death Bytes said:
Can they be pardoned before they even plea guilty or the court rules them guilty?

Aren't they innocent until proven guilty? That would make them innocent right now. 
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Insomniac is right above -- a pardon can be granted in advance of charges or even indictment (impeachment), and Ford's pardon of Nixon is precedent. Here is the precise wording Ford used:

Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.
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So "all offenses against the United States" proscribed by a specific (if long) time period.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Statement from WV State Rep who was arrested for storming the Capitol.

It rings true and honest to me.  I hope he recovers from this incident professionally and personally.  He made a mistake, there are consequences, but there is also forgiveness and moving forward when you acknowledge those mistakes earnestly.
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It reads like a normal “apology” written by a PR person.  This could have been any situation.  It’s basically boilerplate langauage.

Is he sincere?  Honest?  I have zero way of knowing.

 
Insomniac said:
Nixon was never charged.
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Do you mean criminally?

There were three distinct charges (obstruction of justice, abuse of power of the office of the presidency, and contempt of Congress) in the articles of impeachment that were approved by the Judiciary Committee for the formal impeachment hearing in May of '74.

These never made it to the Senate for trial because the damning smoking gun tape pretty much forced Nixon's resignation prior to this going to any trial, but most scholars and historians I've read believed that both the House and Senate would have voted for impeachment based on the evidence tied to those charges. 

 
Alex P Keaton said:
It reads like a normal “apology” written by a PR person.  This could have been any situation.  It’s basically boilerplate langauage.

Is he sincere?  Honest?  I have zero way of knowing.
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i am sure this guy would have been first in line to call for forgiveness and moving on had a left wing mob stormed the capitol, killing a cop, and smearing #### on the walls. 

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Do you mean criminally?

There were three distinct charges (obstruction of justice, abuse of power of the office of the presidency, and contempt of Congress) in the articles of impeachment that were approved by the Judiciary Committee for the formal impeachment hearing in May of '74.

These never made it to the Senate for trial because the damning smoking gun tape pretty much forced Nixon's resignation prior to this going to any trial, but most scholars and historians I've read believed that both the House and Senate would have voted for impeachment based on the evidence tied to those charges. 
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I was just talking about Nixon being pardoned by Ford. Nixon was an "unindicted co-conspirator" but he wasn't charged with anything. I believe his pardon prevented him from being charged criminally.  Then again, no matter how many episodes of Law and Order I watched that isn't the same as going to law school and passing the bar.

 
Insomniac said:
I was just talking about Nixon being pardoned by Ford. Nixon was an "unindicted co-conspirator" but he wasn't charged with anything. I believe his pardon prevented him from being charged criminally.  Then again, no matter how many episodes of Law and Order I watched that isn't the same as going to law school and passing the bar.
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Got it. I consider the official articles of impeachment as formal charges, but that's me. His resignation prevented impeachment, and to your point, Ford's pardon prevented federal charges from being sought, but I do consider the weight of evidence and articles of impeachment as charges.

 
These Black Capitol Police Officers Describe Fighting Off "Racist ### Terrorists"

BuzzFeed News spoke to two Black officers who described a harrowing day in which they were forced to endure racist abuse — including repeatedly being called the n-word — as they tried to do their job of protecting the Capitol building, and by extension the very functioning of American democracy. The officers said they were wrong footed, fighting off an invading force that their managers had downplayed, and not prepared them for. They had all been issued gas masks, for example, but management didn’t tell them to bring them in on the day. Capitol Police did not respond to BuzzFeed News’s request for comment about the allegations made by officers.
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“That was a heavily trained group of militia terrorists that attacked us,” said the officer, who has been with the department for more than a decade. “They had radios, we found them, they had two-way communicators and earpieces. They had bear spray. They had flash bangs ... They were prepared. They strategically put two IEDs, pipe bombs in two different locations. These guys were military trained. A lot of them were former military,” the veteran said, referring to two suspected pipe bombs that were found outside the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee and the Republican National Committee.

The officer even described coming face to face with police officers from across the country in the mob. He said some of them flashed the badges, telling him to let them through, and trying to explain that this was all part of a movement that was supposed to help.

“You have the nerve to be holding a blue lives matter flag, and you are out there ####### us up,” he told one group of protestors he encountered inside the Capitol. “[One guy] pulled out his badge and he said, ‘we’re doing this for you.’ Another guy had his badge. So I was like, ‘well, you gotta be kidding.’”

Another officer, a newer recruit, echoed these sentiments, saying that where he was on the steps to the rotunda on the east side of the Capitol, he was engaged in hand-to-hand battles trying to fight the attackers off. But he said they were outnumbered 10 to one, and described extraordinary scenes in which protesters holding Blue Lives Matter flags launched themselves at police officers.
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culdeus said:
A somewhat common denominator developing that there are a lot of combat vets in the mix here.  Some seeing legit combat.  
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I’ve followed Jack Murphy for a number of years. He was sounding the alarm on this back in the summer. He’s an eclectic dude, former Ranger that was all up in it until he wasn’t, then turned investigative journalist. Good follow, not a vet bro like a lot you saw at the Capitol this week.

https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr/status/1347200970388865024?s=21

 
You hear some stories about how organized some of these traitors were.  Trained cops & military, high tech gear and detailed plans.  Then you have the Elizabeth Revolutionaries and Sparky Balls types.    

 
Haven't seen actual confirmation that this is the officer who died, but that's the story making the rounds and given that he's face down being beaten on by the mob it seems somewhere north of "possible".

ETA: there's video leading up to this moment, so it's real, but it's not very nice.

Good news is that these murderous traitors are all going to be IDd and put away for a very long time.

 
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Lawyer types, how broad can an aggressive prosecutor go with charges?  Is everyone who broke into the Capitol on the hook for the murder charge?  What about the people who broke through the barriers but didn't make it inside the building?  How broad can they go?

There's so much footage of this event and so many people working on IDing them that it's only a matter of time before we know the names of almost all of them.

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Haven't seen actual confirmation that this is the officer who died, but that's the story making the rounds and given that he's face down being beaten on by the mob it seems somewhere north of "possible".

ETA: there's video leading up to this moment, so it's real, but it's not very nice.

Good news is that these murderous traitors are all going to be IDd and put away for a very long time.
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Where can we see the video? Is there a catch all thread somewhere for all the perps? 

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Lawyer types, how broad can an aggressive prosecutor go with charges?  Is everyone who broke into the Capitol on the hook for the murder charge?  What about the people who broke through the barriers but didn't make it inside the building?  How broad can they go?

There's so much footage of this event and so many people working on IDing them that it's only a matter of time before we know the names of almost all of them.
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I asked the same question earlier.

In some ways this is like charging a bank robber with murder if one of his accomplices dies in the commission of the crime.  I don't know the details on proving a conspiracy - but I imagine the difficulty will be establishing some pre-existing plan amongst the mob (as opposed to those who will argue there was no coordination, they simply got caught up in the heat-of-the-moment mob mentality).  Certainly there is evidence out there among some people of planning to storm the Capitol - but I don't really know that you can make a strong case with that evidence.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Lawyer types, how broad can an aggressive prosecutor go with charges?  Is everyone who broke into the Capitol on the hook for the murder charge?  What about the people who broke through the barriers but didn't make it inside the building?  How broad can they go?

There's so much footage of this event and so many people working on IDing them that it's only a matter of time before we know the names of almost all of them.
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In most jurisdictions, the underlying “dangerous felony” that would support a felony murder conviction are codified by statute. I doubt that unlawful entry or even felony trespass would suffice (nor should it, IMO). 

 
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