***UPDATE: Now OFFICIAL MNF Thread*** (1 Viewer)

porkins said:

Colin Dowling said:

That was absolutely a acatch. He had 2 feet in and mantained controll. He can move the ball in his hand and still have controll. He was attempting to tuck the ball into his elbow. He really didn't even need to do it. There was no point where he didn't have controll of the ball. In fact, he didn't even move it till he was alredy out of bounds.

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How so?

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They ruled it a catch, so that's what it was. But you're rationalizing it too much. He wasn't "attempting to tuck the ball in to his elbow." He was attempting to not drop a winning touchdown catch. The ball was moving PLENTY before he was out of bounds. The judgement was made that the movement was being made under control, but let's not pretend he was surehanded with it and then started his juggling act once he was OOB.

I was sitting on the couch watching that replay and fully expected it to be overturned. I don't know that I fully understand what "control" means in the ruling. He clearly wasn't juggling the ball ( like moss was earlier in the game ), but he didn't have it secured either in his hands or tucked to the body. He appeared to be moving the ball to a tucked position. The ball definitely was moving, but at no time was there any risk that he drops it. I would have been OK with an overturn, but I can see not overturning it also. The control out of bounds rules are there for the juggling catch, and this didn't fit that bill. It was just an odd case.

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Very well said.

Road Warriors said:

ConstruxBoy said:

Road Warriors said:

ConstruxBoy said:

I think the holding was a pretty ticky tack call. That would not get called as many times as it would. I don't think it affected the play.

As for the timeout, again, it was called against the rules. Notice I said above that I didn't say it was an excuse for Baltimore at all and it certainly could have been a TD. But an official allowing an Asst to call a TO is against the rules and bad officiating.

That was not a TD catch. I think my biggest beef with replay is that officials now use it as a crutch and they don't make the correct, tough calls anymore. They make the calls that are easiest and figure that replay will correct them if needed. The problem is that the replay official is giving deference to the game official with the indisputable evidence guideline. Not just in this game and this play. All season. Either officials need to man up and make the tough call on the field (like on QB fumbles or incomplete passes where they often just keep letting the play go) or the replay official needs to be able to "interpret" the play and not have absolute iron clad evidence to overturn a call.

Your use of the word "attrocities" gives a lot of insight into your character. You're better than that.

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I would guess when the primary target on a passing play is held from the LOS to his cut that the hold impacts the play.

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Possibly. Again, I don't think there would have been a huge uproar if it wasn't called. But I just can't get how people think the TD was a catch. Saying that the ball sitting on someone's open hand is control opens up a Pandora's Box in my opinion.

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There would have been a huge uproar from the Pats homers( disclosure: Pats homer) if that wasn't called, IMO.I was sitting on the couch watching that replay and fully expected it to be overturned. I don't know that I fully understand what "control" means in the ruling. He clearly wasn't juggling the ball ( like moss was earlier in the game ), but he didn't have it secured either in his hands or tucked to the body. He appeared to be moving the ball to a tucked position. The ball definitely was moving, but at no time was there any risk that he drops it. I would have been OK with an overturn, but I can see not overturning it also. The control out of bounds rules are there for the juggling catch, and this didn't fit that bill. It was just an odd case.

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It was certainly a tough call. I just don't think/like that the ball resting on an open hand is called control. I don't think it is. Interesting to know if the rule clarifies exactly what control is or not.

zoonation said:

CrossEyed said:

After watching NE the past 2 weeks, I think the Steelers have a legit shot next week. I think Lebeau will have a few tricks up his sleeve for Brady & Co.

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I do too.The Steelers will move the ball with ease IMO.I'll go out on a limb right nowit - 34NE - 31

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If FWP can hold onto the ball. He looked like an average RB against the Bengals.

Rogi said:

zoonation said:

CrossEyed said:

After watching NE the past 2 weeks, I think the Steelers have a legit shot next week. I think Lebeau will have a few tricks up his sleeve for Brady & Co.

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I do too.The Steelers will move the ball with ease IMO.I'll go out on a limb right nowit - 34NE - 31

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If FWP can hold onto the ball. He looked like an average RB against the Bengals.

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I've said it before and will say it again . . . the Steelers on the road are nowhere near as good this year as the Steelers at home.

David Yudkin said:

Rogi said:

zoonation said:

CrossEyed said:

After watching NE the past 2 weeks, I think the Steelers have a legit shot next week. I think Lebeau will have a few tricks up his sleeve for Brady & Co.

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I do too.The Steelers will move the ball with ease IMO.I'll go out on a limb right nowit - 34NE - 31

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If FWP can hold onto the ball. He looked like an average RB against the Bengals.

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I've said it before and will say it again . . . the Steelers on the raod are nowhere near as good this year as the Steelers at home.

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I think it goes further than that: to beat the Patriots you need to have the personnel to matchup with them. The Ravens had this on the defensive side and the elements helped a bit as well. Certainly this can be said for the Steelers, as their D may be even better than the Ravens; they are at least as good. The one area the Steelers struggle with is the play of their offensive line. Last night the Ravens O-line controlled much of the game (though the Pats D showed up big time in the 4th quarter). Much of Willie's average play can be attributed to the fact that the Steelers line just isn't that physical. Obviously he had some other issues against the Bengals (which could also have been influenced by the elements), but he hasn't looked stellar in some time.

To me, the MVP of last night's game was clear:

Jonathan Ogden DEMOLISHED Richard Seymour and Jarvis Green. Whenever McGahee ran to the left, he found HUGE holes. Whenever he ran right, he cutback left and found huge holes. The Ravens exploited that mismatch all night long, over and over again.

Fortunately for the Pats, there aren't a league full of Ogdens out there. Nor are there backs like McGahee who can exploit thos mismatches as effectively.

Workhorse said:

To me, the MVP of last night's game was clear:Jonathan Ogden DEMOLISHED Richard Seymour and Jarvis Green. Whenever McGahee ran to the left, he found HUGE holes. Whenever he ran right, he cutback left and found huge holes. The Ravens exploited that mismatch all night long, over and over again.Fortunately for the Pats, there aren't a league full of Ogdens out there. Nor are there backs like McGahee who can exploit thos mismatches as effectively.

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Agreed. Ogden looked like a giant out there!

Stingdiddy said:

Gaffney didn't control that ball.

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meanjoegreen said:

Wow, he did not have control of the ball.

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AndersonToEdwards said:

lol, that's a catch?

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weasel3515 said:

Definitely juggling it by a mediocre receiver. More Kraft money at work. Can't wait for the Pats to get beaten in the playoffs so everybody can say..."so what?".

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Popinski said:

Absolutely not a catch. Refs need a summer course in how to evaluate a replay.

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mad sweeney said:

captbly said:

dawrecker said:

looks like incomplete to me, dont see how you can change hands and consider that having control of the ball. Refs will give it to them though, have given them the rest

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Players change hands all the time. look at RBs.. just cause your swapping it.. doesnt mean you dont control the ball.

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I don't think I've ever seen a pass ruled complete like that though.

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Steeler said:

The Ravens self destructed at the end and were going to lose either way, but not overturning that TD was terrible.

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MSULions said:

I can not believe they gave gaffney that touchdown.oh wait, yes i can...total joke, but entirely predictable.

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That was not a catch. He may have had control in the sense that a juggler has control of all 3 balls he is juggling. But the rules state that the ball must be secured and 2 feet down. No one can dispute that he did this.

Weapon of Mass Instruction said:

That was not a catch. He may have had control in the sense that a juggler has control of all 3 balls he is juggling. But the rules state that the ball must be secured and 2 feet down. No one can dispute that he did this.

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IIRC, in previous rulings/reviews refs have said the ball could be moving provided it was not loose or "out". In watching the replay a zillion times, Gaffney's left hand appears to stay on the ball until he moves it to his right hand. When and where he established possession is debatable, and apparently they felt there was not enough to overturn the call. Similarly, if they called it incomplete they would not have ruled it a TD either.

David Yudkin said:

Weapon of Mass Instruction said:

That was not a catch. He may have had control in the sense that a juggler has control of all 3 balls he is juggling. But the rules state that the ball must be secured and 2 feet down. No one can dispute that he did this.

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IIRC, in previous rulings/reviews refs have said the ball could be moving provided it was not loose or "out". In watching the replay a zillion times, Gaffney's left hand appears to stay on the ball until he moves it to his right hand. When and where he established possession is debatable, and apparently they felt there was not enough to overturn the call. Similarly, if they called it incomplete they would not have ruled it a TD either.

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I understand what you are saying. However, when he transferred from the left to right hand -- it was basically pitching the ball from one hand to the other. It did not land precisely in the hand -- it rattled off the heel of the hand and bounced around a little before he re-controlled it with the right hand.My point is that he didn't have constand control with 2 feet before going out of bounds.

David Yudkin said:

Weapon of Mass Instruction said:

That was not a catch. He may have had control in the sense that a juggler has control of all 3 balls he is juggling. But the rules state that the ball must be secured and 2 feet down. No one can dispute that he did this.

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IIRC, in previous rulings/reviews refs have said the ball could be moving provided it was not loose or "out". In watching the replay a zillion times, Gaffney's left hand appears to stay on the ball until he moves it to his right hand. When and where he established possession is debatable, and apparently they felt there was not enough to overturn the call. Similarly, if they called it incomplete they would not have ruled it a TD either.

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Did they even review this aspect of the play? The referee was under the hood for what 15 seconds? I don't thinks NFL ref's are very good at looking at TV replays anyway so I think the call stands no matter what, but I don't believe the entire catch was actually reviewed. They just didn't spend enough time on it unless the TV broadcast was misleading.

A couple of points:

1. I was at the game last night. Great crowd. The stadium was rocking. Pretty fair amount of Pats fans there. Baltimore fans were pretty cool. Good amount of Pats fans in my section and the only Pats fan to get a hard time definitely deserved it. In fact the guy that got the most abuse was a guy wearing a Steelers' Palamula shirt.

2. The rule on kickoffs is that the receiving team has the option to take the ball 30 yards from the point of the kick or have the kicking team penalized 5 yards and rekick. The Patriots could not have guaranteed that Baltimore start on the 5 yard line simply by kicking the ball out of bounds.

3. 4th down timeout was just luck on the part of the Patriots. There is very good video of the side judge whistling the play dead before the ball is snapped. I dont see how anyone can argue that.

4. I can see how the holding call can be considered Ticky Tack. I dont think it is likely, nevermind a guarantee, that Watson catches that pass without the interference/holding/illegal contact. It was a penalty but could have gone either way.

5. I thought Gaffney's catch was a TD. I dont think he "juggled" it but can see those that say the movement of the football proves that he didnt control it.

6. Watched Brady's press conference when I got home. Obviously I am a big Brady fan but I thought it was hilarious when he said he heard the whistle and held up. He went on to say that if the whistle hadnt blown he would have definitely got the first down. Said totally tongue in cheek.

Great game. Cant wait for the Steelers to come to town this Sunday. Should be another great game.