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***Official 2014 World Cup Thread*** (1 Viewer)

wdcrob said:
CletiusMaximus said:
Cool video compilation from a Colombian fan: http://vimeo.com/100567648
Click to expand...
Love that the English fans skip straight over football and go to WWII for their football songs. Play to your strengths I guess.
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based on the video it looks like that was shot before or after the England/Costa Rica game - classic British sportsmanship (especially given they never even played German this Cup).

More amusing is that the most American chant of any side in the World Cup has to be Iran's - they can thank the 60s group The Routers for that one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxCIEHABB1M

:)

-QG

 
So I know it's been mentioned of course that Germany is the first European team to win a World Cup after crossing the Atlantic, not sure if it's been mentioned already but this also marks the first time a confederation has won three straight World Cups. Even with Europe's struggles in the group stage, at the later stages they showed why their allotment probably won't be changing.

-QG

 
QuizGuy66 said:
So I know it's been mentioned of course that Germany is the first European team to win a World Cup after crossing the Atlantic, not sure if it's been mentioned already but this also marks the first time a confederation has won three straight World Cups. Even with Europe's struggles in the group stage, at the later stages they showed why their allotment probably won't be changing.

-QG
Click to expand...
And they were PKs away from having two teams in the finals a 3rd straight time

 
Anyone have a compilation video of all the times Sweinsteiger (sp?) #7 Germany fell to the ground in yesterday's game? I have about 10 minutes to kill today and needed a good laugh.

 
QuizGuy66 said:
So I know it's been mentioned of course that Germany is the first European team to win a World Cup after crossing the Atlantic, not sure if it's been mentioned already but this also marks the first time a confederation has won three straight World Cups. Even with Europe's struggles in the group stage, at the later stages they showed why their allotment probably won't be changing.

-QG
Click to expand...
If UEFA takes up 14 spots (13 quals and 1 for host, something has to give some where else)

Would this work?

Host (UEFA): 1

UEFA 13:

CAF 5

CONMEBOL 5

ASIA 4

CONCACAF 3.5

Oceania .5

=========================================

This would be much cleaner if Oceania would be disbanded and folded into Asia. The move CONCACAF to 4 and do away with the 1/2 slots.

 
I am an avid sports fan, but really just a casual soccer fan. I love the world cup (think it's the greatest sporting event on the planet) and watched the majority of this year's as well as 2010's games, but, simply because I'm overwhelmed watching football, baseball, baseball, and golf so much, I don't have time for much else and rarely pay attention to the actual soccer leagues. Accordingly, one of the most interesting things about the world cup to me is that I've had numerous sources tell me that the world cup is a poor demonstration of who the actual quality players are and that a standard EPL team would crush any country (heck, even in this thread somebody argued that Brazil is nowhere near a top soccer team in the world).

Here were my takeaways from just my "eye test" from watching most of the games:

1. Some strikers appear way better than others. Robben looked like the best player in the world to me -- just faster than anyone else on the field. Messi, Suarez, and Reynaldo weren't far behind. Is this pretty accurate? Obviously, the hard time I'm having is measuring midfielders and defenders.

2. I had a hard time measuring the quality of goaltenders. The sample size just appears too low. Nonetheless, Tim Howard looked like the best player in the entire tournament at times. So did Costa Rica's keeper and Mexico's. I get that they "benefited" from tons of shots, but man were they impressive. However, I've heard these guys wouldn't even start for an EPL team. Is this true? If so, where are these goalies that they don't play and shine in the world cup?

3. The final was satisfying because Germany was clearly the best team all tournament. They are a freaking machine. Seemed to compare to basketball's Spurs. I learned then that a lot of the guys play for Bayern Munich. However, while I had heard of them before, they were never mentioned in the same breaths as team like Barcelona and Manchester United. Why is that?

TIA; Will answer yours.

ETA: Oh yeah, on flopping. I get the "part of the game" argument. But from a casual observer who otherwise loves all sports, it really does make it tough to get into the sport. I watched the game with an entire crowd of "bandwagon American fans" at a British pub yesterday, and a lot of wives and girlfriends were even lamented about how annoying flopping is. I just can't see soccer getting big in the US with flopping so prevalently against our general sports' ethics.

 
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Has nothing to do with soccer, but Argentine tango is some of the best music in the world. The Colombian video compilation made me think of it for some reason.

Gotan Project :thumbup:

 
Zow said:
I am an avid sports fan, but really just a casual soccer fan. I love the world cup (think it's the greatest sporting event on the planet) and watched the majority of this year's as well as 2010's games, but, simply because I'm overwhelmed watching football, baseball, baseball, and golf so much, I don't have time for much else and rarely pay attention to the actual soccer leagues. Accordingly, one of the most interesting things about the world cup to me is that I've had numerous sources tell me that the world cup is a poor demonstration of who the actual quality players are and that a standard EPL team would crush any country (heck, even in this thread somebody argued that Brazil is nowhere near a top soccer team in the world).

Here were my takeaways from just my "eye test" from watching most of the games:

1. Some strikers appear way better than others. Robben looked like the best player in the world to me -- just faster than anyone else on the field. Messi, Suarez, and Reynaldo weren't far behind. Is this pretty accurate? Obviously, the hard time I'm having is measuring midfielders and defenders.

2. I had a hard time measuring the quality of goaltenders. The sample size just appears too low. Nonetheless, Tim Howard looked like the best player in the entire tournament at times. So did Costa Rica's keeper and Mexico's. I get that they "benefited" from tons of shots, but man were they impressive. However, I've heard these guys wouldn't even start for an EPL team. Is this true? If so, where are these goalies that they don't play and shine in the world cup?

3. The final was satisfying because Germany was clearly the best team all tournament. They are a freaking machine. Seemed to compare to basketball's Spurs. I learned then that a lot of the guys play for Bayern Munich. However, while I had heard of them before, they were never mentioned in the same breaths as team like Barcelona and Manchester United. Why is that?

TIA; Will answer yours.

ETA: Oh yeah, on flopping. I get the "part of the game" argument. But from a casual observer who otherwise loves all sports, it really does make it tough to get into the sport. I watched the game with an entire crowd of "bandwagon American fans" at a British pub yesterday, and a lot of wives and girlfriends were even lamented about how annoying flopping is. I just can't see soccer getting big in the US with flopping so prevalently against our general sports' ethics.
Click to expand...
Messi is easily the best player in the world, but his fellow attackers with Argentina looked completely lost in terms of taking advantage of the space Messi created by having two and three guys shadowing him. And the times Messi beat the multiple defenders or other chances fell to them Higuain, Aguero and Palacios were just horrible. The game was there to be won for Argentina yesterday.

Measuring the true quality of GKs is really hard.

If you were making a list of the five biggest teams in the world everyone would include Bayern. They're a giant club -- arguably top three with Real and Barcelona.

 
Zow said:
Accordingly, one of the most interesting things about the world cup to me is that I've had numerous sources tell me that the world cup is a poor demonstration of who the actual quality players are and that a standard EPL team would crush any country (heck, even in this thread somebody argued that Brazil is nowhere near a top soccer team in the world).

2. I had a hard time measuring the quality of goaltenders. The sample size just appears too low. Nonetheless, Tim Howard looked like the best player in the entire tournament at times. So did Costa Rica's keeper and Mexico's. I get that they "benefited" from tons of shots, but man were they impressive. However, I've heard these guys wouldn't even start for an EPL team. Is this true? If so, where are these goalies that they don't play and shine in the world cup?

3. The final was satisfying because Germany was clearly the best team all tournament. They are a freaking machine. Seemed to compare to basketball's Spurs. I learned then that a lot of the guys play for Bayern Munich. However, while I had heard of them before, they were never mentioned in the same breaths as team like Barcelona and Manchester United. Why is that?
Accordingly, one of the most interesting things about the world cup to me is that I've had numerous sources tell me that the world cup is a poor demonstration of who the actual quality players are and that a standard EPL team would crush any country (heck, even in this thread somebody argued that Brazil is nowhere near a top soccer team in the world).
Click to expand...
In order based on the quote above

A standard EPL team would not crush all teams in the WC by any means. A standard middle of the road EPL team would likely go out in the group stage, pretty easily. In fact I would bet serious money that a middle of the road EPL team would not even qualify for the WC.

The very top of the EPL/La Liga/Bundesliga would do well in the WC, but never confuse the top 10ish teams in the entire world with teams in the middle of the pack in their respective leagues. It is night and day.

2) Tim Howard has played 342 EPL games. I am unsure how you have heard he would not start for an EPL team. The guy has been playing consistently in the EPL for a decade now.

Navas (CR keeper) has been a starter in La Liga (Spain) for a few years and was voted the top keeper in La Liga last season. The guy most certainly can play any where.

Ochoa has been playing in France's for a few years but is currently a free agent. He is the least accomplished of the 3 at the club level

3) Bayern"s "brand" is no where near as big as Man U's or Barca, but their pedigree is every bit as big. They are an enormous club that has not focused as much on world wide marketing as other big teams have.

 
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Zow said:
Oh yeah, on flopping. I get the "part of the game" argument. But from a casual observer who otherwise loves all sports, it really does make it tough to get into the sport.
Click to expand...
I'd also like to add that if you are on the side of "it's part of the game", then please stop complaining about refs missing calls. You can't have it both ways.

 
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Another note: The Bundesliga has the lowest Q value in the US amongst leagues. That will likely change in the coming years

Right now the general viewing habits based on ratings go something like this

Liga MX

.

.

.

EPL

.

.

MLS

.

.

.

.

SerieA/La Liga

.

.

.

.

.

.

Bundesliga

This issue will be improved in the next few years. Bayern will play a couple of games in the US this summer including playing in the MLS All Star game. Fox has also picked up the Bundesliga contract (starting next fall) which will finally give the league a platform to stand on. And with the increased presence of US players playing in the Bundesliga (especially as the EPL work permits become harder to get), more fans will be paying attention to that league in the next cycle.

 
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IMO, there are only two things that can derail the growth profile of the sport in the US, which has been large the last 8 years.

1) The US fails to qualify for WC.

Before you think this is impossible, you need to remember Mexico was minutes away from not qualifying. With Costa Rica likely going to be on a high with a bunch of young talented players, this could be a very difficult qualyfing cycle for US. You should also remember that the US was losing in its last game in the first round of qualifying. If it had gone on to lose that game, they would have been out before the last round of qualifying even began. Concacaf qualifying is just nuts.

2) MLS stabs itself in the eye by having a protracted strike lock out.

The CBA ends this year. The players bent over in the last CBA but they are not blind. The league is bringing in revenues like never before and the teams values is going up extremely quickly. The players are going to want their share this go around.

With two new expansion teams atarting next year, one team likely being rebranded and moved and another opening a brand new stadium, and the new TV contract starting that the MLS owners will have more incentive than normal to get this done.

I am nervous about this but remain hopeful that at worst they sign the deal in early March and just miss a week or two of the season.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Zow said:
Oh yeah, on flopping. I get the "part of the game" argument. But from a casual observer who otherwise loves all sports, it really does make it tough to get into the sport.
Click to expand...
I'd also like to add that if you are on the side of "it's part of the game", then please stop complaining about refs missing calls. You can't have it both ways.
Click to expand...
not sure what you guys mean by "part of the game"... I don't think anybody advocates, excuses or accepts flopping in here.

That said, there's "flopping" (taking a dive), "embellishing" (using histrionics to sell a foul) and just "riding a tackle" (getting off your feet to avoid getting hurt when a tackle is coming in- which looks like flopping to a lot of lay-people, IMO). The first two are garbage to me, even though it appears to be more culturally accepted in continental Europe and Latin America. Unless you want players continuously hurt, get used to the last one and try your best to take note of the difference.

Of course the problem is that players will always do their best to ride the tackle- but will also often embellish on top of it. That might be the type of play that's "part of the game" that those of us who played a lot and/or watch a lot excuse more than the occasional viewer; since the foul has occurred, some are more ok with whatever the guy does afterwards to help sell it. I'm not, but there you go.

I will always complain when I see a ref miss a call- especially a big call.Why not? I don't see how it's having it both ways here. I will also complain if players mess up. Or embellish. Basically, I'm just a complainer.

 
El Floppo said:
TheIronSheik said:
Zow said:
Oh yeah, on flopping. I get the "part of the game" argument. But from a casual observer who otherwise loves all sports, it really does make it tough to get into the sport.
Click to expand...
I'd also like to add that if you are on the side of "it's part of the game", then please stop complaining about refs missing calls. You can't have it both ways.
Click to expand...
not sure what you guys mean by "part of the game"... I don't think anybody advocates, excuses or accepts flopping in here.

That said, there's "flopping" (taking a dive), "embellishing" (using histrionics to sell a foul) and just "riding a tackle" (getting off your feet to avoid getting hurt when a tackle is coming in- which looks like flopping to a lot of lay-people, IMO). The first two are garbage to me, even though it appears to be more culturally accepted in continental Europe and Latin America. Unless you want players continuously hurt, get used to the last one and try your best to take note of the difference.

Of course the problem is that players will always do their best to ride the tackle- but will also often embellish on top of it. That might be the type of play that's "part of the game" that those of us who played a lot and/or watch a lot excuse more than the occasional viewer; since the foul has occurred, some are more ok with whatever the guy does afterwards to help sell it. I'm not, but there you go.

I will always complain when I see a ref miss a call- especially a big call.Why not? I don't see how it's having it both ways here. I will also complain if players mess up. Or embellish. Basically, I'm just a complainer.
Click to expand...
I get what you're saying. And the easiest way to say it is - I don't mean you. Or most people in here.

I'm talking about how in the first game of the World Cup, Brazil took a dive with no contact and then won on a penalty kick. After the game, when they interviewed the Brazilian coach, he said something like, "He didn't fake it. He was hit and it was a good foul."

That's :bs:

We all saw the replay. These players who lay on the turf grabbing whatever body part they can think of to get a call, only then to yell at the ref because he didn't make a call on a play where he actually got hit. Do you know my he missed that call, footballer guy? Because he's having trouble telling real injuries from fake injuries.

That was kind of my point, anyway. :shrug:

 
El Floppo said:
TheIronSheik said:
Zow said:
Oh yeah, on flopping. I get the "part of the game" argument. But from a casual observer who otherwise loves all sports, it really does make it tough to get into the sport.
Click to expand...
I'd also like to add that if you are on the side of "it's part of the game", then please stop complaining about refs missing calls. You can't have it both ways.
Click to expand...
not sure what you guys mean by "part of the game"... I don't think anybody advocates, excuses or accepts flopping in here.

That said, there's "flopping" (taking a dive), "embellishing" (using histrionics to sell a foul) and just "riding a tackle" (getting off your feet to avoid getting hurt when a tackle is coming in- which looks like flopping to a lot of lay-people, IMO). The first two are garbage to me, even though it appears to be more culturally accepted in continental Europe and Latin America. Unless you want players continuously hurt, get used to the last one and try your best to take note of the difference.

Of course the problem is that players will always do their best to ride the tackle- but will also often embellish on top of it. That might be the type of play that's "part of the game" that those of us who played a lot and/or watch a lot excuse more than the occasional viewer; since the foul has occurred, some are more ok with whatever the guy does afterwards to help sell it. I'm not, but there you go.

I will always complain when I see a ref miss a call- especially a big call.Why not? I don't see how it's having it both ways here. I will also complain if players mess up. Or embellish. Basically, I'm just a complainer.
Click to expand...
It is also tough for people who haven't played or watched extensively to know what a foul is. A lot of contact doesn't look big in relation to NFL football but is a foul and often hurts. Getting studs on the top of your foot is very painful for a few minutes but looks like a little knock.

And then as you mention, riding a tackle is common ground in sport. If I was facing my own goal in my own third, it didn't take a whole lot of contact for the ref to call a foul. Any push or pull was usually enough to draw a call. But this type of move isn't as prevalent in American sports. Doing something for the sake of a foul. In football, you've started to see it with receivers/CBs who aren't watching the ball or basketball with guys jumping into defenders in the air but I think Americans struggle with that concept.

 
NewlyRetired said:
QuizGuy66 said:
So I know it's been mentioned of course that Germany is the first European team to win a World Cup after crossing the Atlantic, not sure if it's been mentioned already but this also marks the first time a confederation has won three straight World Cups. Even with Europe's struggles in the group stage, at the later stages they showed why their allotment probably won't be changing.

-QG
Click to expand...
If UEFA takes up 14 spots (13 quals and 1 for host, something has to give some where else)

Would this work?

Host (UEFA): 1

UEFA 13:

CAF 5

CONMEBOL 5

ASIA 4

CONCACAF 3.5

Oceania .5

=========================================

This would be much cleaner if Oceania would be disbanded and folded into Asia. The move CONCACAF to 4 and do away with the 1/2 slots.
Click to expand...
I think that the host spot shifts from CONMEBOL to UEFA. And that's it.

UEFA: 13+1

CAF: 5

CONMEBOL: 4.5

AFC: 4.5

CONCACAF: 3.5

OFA: 0.5

I think FIFA likes the mix of league-awarded and playoff spots.

I have a hard-time believing those playoffs spots will ever go-away. They are a way of assuaging the various confederations with the possibility of getting one more spot.

UEFA can point to the final 8/final 4 and champion to justify keeping all of their spots. Plus they are the home confederation next time. Hard to see them taking one away.

CONMEBOL was strong and will be losing the host spot.

CAF had 3 teams make the round of 16. They'll clamor for another spot and not get it. I think that FIFA is disinclined to include Africa in the playoffs. I think part of the reason they have home-and-homes followed by small 4 team leagues followed by home-and-homes is to keep costs down.

CONCACAF will of course push for the full 4. With the strength of the results it's the strongest case to be made. Regardless of America's perception as a soccer power it's big $ and FIFA would want to protect that you'd think which is the one rational for the number moving to 4. I still just don't see it.

AFC has 4.5 teams and if we're talking merit they would lose this 1/2 spot to CONCACAF. But FIFA is not all about merit - it is the WORLD Cup after all. And if there's a real chance that 2022 get moves (and you have to think that it's at least plausible) shifting the .5 from Asia to North America would be a double blow. Again it's not merit - I think we can agree that Asia sent its 4 best teams this time (no North Koreas in the bunch) - and they got blasted. But between politics and the negative perception that retrenchment in the "emerging futbol regions" - I don't see it.

Oh and 40 teams is still a smokescreen I think that will be mentioned but never put to a vote (b/c the minnows would pass it).

With 8 groups of 5 teams that means 96 games instead of 64 as well as 10 teams that will have to watch the last game (more chances for chicanery).

10 groups of 4 teams would mean 70 games if 16 teams made the knockouts though I bet they'd go to 20 or even 24 advancing - so it'd be more like 78 games. Hosting the tournament is already enough of a challenge for most places they've been having it.

So there you go :)

ETA - I cannot imagine FIFA voting to effectively add 0.5 spots to an established area (CONMEBOL) at the expense of a growth area (AFC). They'll make CONMEBOL play for the 5th spot, and the fact of the matter is they'll win it almost every time anyway.

-QG

 
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El Floppo said:
there's "flopping" (taking a dive), "embellishing" (using histrionics to sell a foul) and just "riding a tackle" (getting off your feet to avoid getting hurt when a tackle is coming in).
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Everyone absolutely hates the first one -- and if FIFA wanted it gone they could do it in a week by implementing video review and then nailing a couple high profile offenders immediately.

The 2nd one is borderline, but still not bad as long as there's a foul.

The third one isn't an issue. Going over avoids a lot of injuries.

 
wdcrob said:
El Floppo said:
there's "flopping" (taking a dive), "embellishing" (using histrionics to sell a foul) and just "riding a tackle" (getting off your feet to avoid getting hurt when a tackle is coming in).
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Everyone absolutely hates the first one -- and if FIFA wanted it gone they could do it in a week by implementing video review and then nailing a couple high profile offenders immediately.

The 2nd one is borderline, but still not bad as long as there's a foul.

The third one isn't an issue. Going over avoids a lot of injuries.
Click to expand...
in all honesty, I think #2 plays worse in the US. But #1 is often (it seems to this novice) accompanied by #2

the thing that i hear the most is "they are rolling in pain their faces twisted in agony and then when a call is made or it is clear no call is coming they pop up and play on". I hear that complaint more then "they fell down with little or no contact"

 
B-Deep said:
wdcrob said:
El Floppo said:
there's "flopping" (taking a dive), "embellishing" (using histrionics to sell a foul) and just "riding a tackle" (getting off your feet to avoid getting hurt when a tackle is coming in).
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Everyone absolutely hates the first one -- and if FIFA wanted it gone they could do it in a week by implementing video review and then nailing a couple high profile offenders immediately.

The 2nd one is borderline, but still not bad as long as there's a foul.

The third one isn't an issue. Going over avoids a lot of injuries.
Click to expand...
in all honesty, I think #2 plays worse in the US. But #1 is often (it seems to this novice) accompanied by #2

the thing that i hear the most is "they are rolling in pain their faces twisted in agony and then when a call is made or it is clear no call is coming they pop up and play on". I hear that complaint more then "they fell down with little or no contact"
Click to expand...
Jesus, then just don't watch.

 
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It seems to me US sports fans are used to seeing people fake a foul. However, faking being in so much pain somehow seems sissy to them. We ride playing through pain, not pretending you have an ouchy just so maybe you get a call.

I am not saying that is right, but that is how it seems to me. However, there is crap in all sports i don't like. That does not mean you throw the baby out with the dishwater. Soccer is good enough that this one thing which bugs you should not ruin it for you

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
B-Deep said:
wdcrob said:
El Floppo said:
there's "flopping" (taking a dive), "embellishing" (using histrionics to sell a foul) and just "riding a tackle" (getting off your feet to avoid getting hurt when a tackle is coming in).
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Everyone absolutely hates the first one -- and if FIFA wanted it gone they could do it in a week by implementing video review and then nailing a couple high profile offenders immediately.

The 2nd one is borderline, but still not bad as long as there's a foul.

The third one isn't an issue. Going over avoids a lot of injuries.
Click to expand...
in all honesty, I think #2 plays worse in the US. But #1 is often (it seems to this novice) accompanied by #2

the thing that i hear the most is "they are rolling in pain their faces twisted in agony and then when a call is made or it is clear no call is coming they pop up and play on". I hear that complaint more then "they fell down with little or no contact"
Click to expand...
Jesus, then just don't watch.
Click to expand...
I am not saying me. I am just discussing why the flopping thing seems to be such a big deal to some americans. I think it is a tad silly but it does not prevent me from watching and enjoying the games!

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
B-Deep said:
wdcrob said:
El Floppo said:
there's "flopping" (taking a dive), "embellishing" (using histrionics to sell a foul) and just "riding a tackle" (getting off your feet to avoid getting hurt when a tackle is coming in).
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Everyone absolutely hates the first one -- and if FIFA wanted it gone they could do it in a week by implementing video review and then nailing a couple high profile offenders immediately.

The 2nd one is borderline, but still not bad as long as there's a foul.

The third one isn't an issue. Going over avoids a lot of injuries.
Click to expand...
in all honesty, I think #2 plays worse in the US. But #1 is often (it seems to this novice) accompanied by #2

the thing that i hear the most is "they are rolling in pain their faces twisted in agony and then when a call is made or it is clear no call is coming they pop up and play on". I hear that complaint more then "they fell down with little or no contact"
Click to expand...
Jesus, then just don't watch.
Click to expand...
:lmao:

 
No viewership numbers are in yet but the overnight ratings for the final were up 13% over the 2010 WC final over night rating.

That is a good early indication that this game will beat US Portugal as the most watched soccer game ever in the US. Could come up north of 26 million viewers.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
B-Deep said:
wdcrob said:
El Floppo said:
there's "flopping" (taking a dive), "embellishing" (using histrionics to sell a foul) and just "riding a tackle" (getting off your feet to avoid getting hurt when a tackle is coming in).
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Everyone absolutely hates the first one -- and if FIFA wanted it gone they could do it in a week by implementing video review and then nailing a couple high profile offenders immediately.

The 2nd one is borderline, but still not bad as long as there's a foul.

The third one isn't an issue. Going over avoids a lot of injuries.
Click to expand...
in all honesty, I think #2 plays worse in the US. But #1 is often (it seems to this novice) accompanied by #2

the thing that i hear the most is "they are rolling in pain their faces twisted in agony and then when a call is made or it is clear no call is coming they pop up and play on". I hear that complaint more then "they fell down with little or no contact"
Click to expand...
Jesus, then just don't watch.
Click to expand...
:lmao:

 
sporthenry said:
El Floppo said:
TheIronSheik said:
Zow said:
Oh yeah, on flopping. I get the "part of the game" argument. But from a casual observer who otherwise loves all sports, it really does make it tough to get into the sport.
Click to expand...
I'd also like to add that if you are on the side of "it's part of the game", then please stop complaining about refs missing calls. You can't have it both ways.
Click to expand...
not sure what you guys mean by "part of the game"... I don't think anybody advocates, excuses or accepts flopping in here.

That said, there's "flopping" (taking a dive), "embellishing" (using histrionics to sell a foul) and just "riding a tackle" (getting off your feet to avoid getting hurt when a tackle is coming in- which looks like flopping to a lot of lay-people, IMO). The first two are garbage to me, even though it appears to be more culturally accepted in continental Europe and Latin America. Unless you want players continuously hurt, get used to the last one and try your best to take note of the difference.

Of course the problem is that players will always do their best to ride the tackle- but will also often embellish on top of it. That might be the type of play that's "part of the game" that those of us who played a lot and/or watch a lot excuse more than the occasional viewer; since the foul has occurred, some are more ok with whatever the guy does afterwards to help sell it. I'm not, but there you go.

I will always complain when I see a ref miss a call- especially a big call.Why not? I don't see how it's having it both ways here. I will also complain if players mess up. Or embellish. Basically, I'm just a complainer.
Click to expand...
It is also tough for people who haven't played or watched extensively to know what a foul is. A lot of contact doesn't look big in relation to NFL football but is a foul and often hurts. Getting studs on the top of your foot is very painful for a few minutes but looks like a little knock.

And then as you mention, riding a tackle is common ground in sport. If I was facing my own goal in my own third, it didn't take a whole lot of contact for the ref to call a foul. Any push or pull was usually enough to draw a call. But this type of move isn't as prevalent in American sports. Doing something for the sake of a foul. In football, you've started to see it with receivers/CBs who aren't watching the ball or basketball with guys jumping into defenders in the air but I think Americans struggle with that concept.
Click to expand...
I wonder too- perception-wise for the US viewer who is used to seeing hand-sports where a lot of the contact happens up high, I dont' think there's as much understanding about what it takes to bring down a grown man.

In football, guys with the ball can plant both feet and initiate contact, or at least put themselves in a more secure stance to receive contact. Soccer, if you have the ball you're always on one foot (other foot on the ball), so it's far easier to get taken down. I think non-players/watchers see a big guy get knocked down without that much contact and immediately assume it's a dive.

 
NewlyRetired said:
Another note: The Bundesliga has the lowest Q value in the US amongst leagues. That will likely change in the coming years

Right now the general viewing habits based on ratings go something like this

Liga MX

.

.

.

EPL

.

.

MLS

.

.

.

.

SerieA/La Liga

.

.

.

.

.

.

Bundesliga
Click to expand...
Have you ever seen a regional breakdown for the TV ratings? I live in the northeast and have never seen a Liga MX game but I would imagine the ratings in California and Texas are enormous.

 
B-Deep said:
wdcrob said:
El Floppo said:
there's "flopping" (taking a dive), "embellishing" (using histrionics to sell a foul) and just "riding a tackle" (getting off your feet to avoid getting hurt when a tackle is coming in).
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Everyone absolutely hates the first one -- and if FIFA wanted it gone they could do it in a week by implementing video review and then nailing a couple high profile offenders immediately.

The 2nd one is borderline, but still not bad as long as there's a foul.

The third one isn't an issue. Going over avoids a lot of injuries.
Click to expand...
in all honesty, I think #2 plays worse in the US. But #1 is often (it seems to this novice) accompanied by #2

the thing that i hear the most is "they are rolling in pain their faces twisted in agony and then when a call is made or it is clear no call is coming they pop up and play on". I hear that complaint more then "they fell down with little or no contact"
Click to expand...
another component for NFL fans- guys who take a knock have trainers come out onto the field and help them limp off all the time. we can't see their faces under their helmets, but they're not rolling around and around, so we don't see that part. But then those players come back in the game. Not much different than soccer (again- histrionics aside), except that NFL players can take a rest and just be subbed back in when they're feeling better.

lol scooby.

 
Tom Hagen said:
NewlyRetired said:
Another note: The Bundesliga has the lowest Q value in the US amongst leagues. That will likely change in the coming years

Right now the general viewing habits based on ratings go something like this

Liga MX

.

.

.

EPL

.

.

MLS

.

.

.

.

SerieA/La Liga

.

.

.

.

.

.

Bundesliga
Click to expand...
Have you ever seen a regional breakdown for the TV ratings? I live in the northeast and have never seen a Liga MX game but I would imagine the ratings in California and Texas are enormous.
Click to expand...
You not watching Univision etc doesn't make those highly-watched channels disappear. But I'd be interested in the numbers too

 
I just think anyone who wants to complain about flopping should first be required to run at full speed and have someone take their legs out from under them

I'd imagine they'd roll around in a bit of pain

 
El Floppo said:
B-Deep said:
wdcrob said:
El Floppo said:
there's "flopping" (taking a dive), "embellishing" (using histrionics to sell a foul) and just "riding a tackle" (getting off your feet to avoid getting hurt when a tackle is coming in).
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Everyone absolutely hates the first one -- and if FIFA wanted it gone they could do it in a week by implementing video review and then nailing a couple high profile offenders immediately.

The 2nd one is borderline, but still not bad as long as there's a foul.

The third one isn't an issue. Going over avoids a lot of injuries.
Click to expand...
in all honesty, I think #2 plays worse in the US. But #1 is often (it seems to this novice) accompanied by #2

the thing that i hear the most is "they are rolling in pain their faces twisted in agony and then when a call is made or it is clear no call is coming they pop up and play on". I hear that complaint more then "they fell down with little or no contact"
Click to expand...
another component for NFL fans- guys who take a knock have trainers come out onto the field and help them limp off all the time. we can't see their faces under their helmets, but they're not rolling around and around, so we don't see that part. But then those players come back in the game. Not much different than soccer (again- histrionics aside), except that NFL players can take a rest and just be subbed back in when they're feeling better.

lol scooby.
Click to expand...
dont forget all the cuts to commercial so that masks this.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
B-Deep said:
wdcrob said:
El Floppo said:
there's "flopping" (taking a dive), "embellishing" (using histrionics to sell a foul) and just "riding a tackle" (getting off your feet to avoid getting hurt when a tackle is coming in).
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Everyone absolutely hates the first one -- and if FIFA wanted it gone they could do it in a week by implementing video review and then nailing a couple high profile offenders immediately.

The 2nd one is borderline, but still not bad as long as there's a foul.

The third one isn't an issue. Going over avoids a lot of injuries.
Click to expand...
in all honesty, I think #2 plays worse in the US. But #1 is often (it seems to this novice) accompanied by #2

the thing that i hear the most is "they are rolling in pain their faces twisted in agony and then when a call is made or it is clear no call is coming they pop up and play on". I hear that complaint more then "they fell down with little or no contact"
Click to expand...
Jesus, then just don't watch.
Click to expand...
:lmao:
Click to expand...
Just wanted to point out I was laughing at you, not with you.

 
Tom Hagen said:
NewlyRetired said:
Another note: The Bundesliga has the lowest Q value in the US amongst leagues. That will likely change in the coming years

Right now the general viewing habits based on ratings go something like this

Liga MX

.

.

.

EPL

.

.

MLS

.

.

.

.

SerieA/La Liga

.

.

.

.

.

.

Bundesliga
Click to expand...
Have you ever seen a regional breakdown for the TV ratings? I live in the northeast and have never seen a Liga MX game but I would imagine the ratings in California and Texas are enormous.
Click to expand...
Liga MX is the most watched league in the US. With hispanic populations large in many US cities, Univision and Telemundo's reach is huge. Remember that a ton of Liga MX games are free OTA, something than neither MLS or EPL can state.

As for regionality, it is what you would expect. The heavier the hispanic population, the bigger the ratings.

Here are some press releases:

http://corporate.univision.com/2014/05/liga-mx-clausura-final-on-unimas-network-reaches-4-7-million-total/

http://corporate.univision.com/2014/01/univision-networks-broadcast-of-liga-mx-season-attracts-more-viewers-than-english-premier-league-season-on-nbc-universal/

http://corporate.univision.com/2014/05/univision-delivers-blockbuster-liga-mx-futbol-ratings-in-2014-regular-season/

 
CletiusMaximus said:
B-Deep said:
Bonzai said:
http://youtu.be/-9fe8bJ1hhQ

"I don't give a ####. We are the champions. We won the trophy. You can rub that golden boot #### behind your ears!" :lol:
Click to expand...
holy crap he really says that?
Click to expand...
He's joking with a somewhat exaggerated Bayrisch accent, and I think otherwise just responding to a stupid question. Bonzai's literal translation could also essentially be "shove it up your ###".
Click to expand...
lolol

i think it rules!!!

 
NewlyRetired said:
Zow said:
Accordingly, one of the most interesting things about the world cup to me is that I've had numerous sources tell me that the world cup is a poor demonstration of who the actual quality players are and that a standard EPL team would crush any country (heck, even in this thread somebody argued that Brazil is nowhere near a top soccer team in the world).

2. I had a hard time measuring the quality of goaltenders. The sample size just appears too low. Nonetheless, Tim Howard looked like the best player in the entire tournament at times. So did Costa Rica's keeper and Mexico's. I get that they "benefited" from tons of shots, but man were they impressive. However, I've heard these guys wouldn't even start for an EPL team. Is this true? If so, where are these goalies that they don't play and shine in the world cup?

3. The final was satisfying because Germany was clearly the best team all tournament. They are a freaking machine. Seemed to compare to basketball's Spurs. I learned then that a lot of the guys play for Bayern Munich. However, while I had heard of them before, they were never mentioned in the same breaths as team like Barcelona and Manchester United. Why is that?
Accordingly, one of the most interesting things about the world cup to me is that I've had numerous sources tell me that the world cup is a poor demonstration of who the actual quality players are and that a standard EPL team would crush any country (heck, even in this thread somebody argued that Brazil is nowhere near a top soccer team in the world).
Click to expand...
In order based on the quote above

A standard EPL team would not crush all teams in the WC by any means. A standard middle of the road EPL team would likely go out in the group stage, pretty easily. In fact I would bet serious money that a middle of the road EPL team would not even qualify for the WC.

The very top of the EPL/La Liga/Bundesliga would do well in the WC, but never confuse the top 10ish teams in the entire world with teams in the middle of the pack in their respective leagues. It is night and day.

2) Tim Howard has played 342 EPL games. I am unsure how you have heard he would not start for an EPL team. The guy has been playing consistently in the EPL for a decade now.

Navas (CR keeper) has been a starter in La Liga (Spain) for a few years and was voted the top keeper in La Liga last season. The guy most certainly can play any where.

Ochoa has been playing in France's for a few years but is currently a free agent. He is the least accomplished of the 3 at the club level

3) Bayern"s "brand" is no where near as big as Man U's or Barca, but their pedigree is every bit as big. They are an enormous club that has not focused as much on world wide marketing as other big teams have.
Click to expand...
Thank you :thumbup:

 
El Floppo said:
TheIronSheik said:
Zow said:
Oh yeah, on flopping. I get the "part of the game" argument. But from a casual observer who otherwise loves all sports, it really does make it tough to get into the sport.
Click to expand...
I'd also like to add that if you are on the side of "it's part of the game", then please stop complaining about refs missing calls. You can't have it both ways.
Click to expand...
not sure what you guys mean by "part of the game"... I don't think anybody advocates, excuses or accepts flopping in here.

That said, there's "flopping" (taking a dive), "embellishing" (using histrionics to sell a foul) and just "riding a tackle" (getting off your feet to avoid getting hurt when a tackle is coming in- which looks like flopping to a lot of lay-people, IMO). The first two are garbage to me, even though it appears to be more culturally accepted in continental Europe and Latin America. Unless you want players continuously hurt, get used to the last one and try your best to take note of the difference.

Of course the problem is that players will always do their best to ride the tackle- but will also often embellish on top of it. That might be the type of play that's "part of the game" that those of us who played a lot and/or watch a lot excuse more than the occasional viewer; since the foul has occurred, some are more ok with whatever the guy does afterwards to help sell it. I'm not, but there you go.

I will always complain when I see a ref miss a call- especially a big call.Why not? I don't see how it's having it both ways here. I will also complain if players mess up. Or embellish. Basically, I'm just a complainer.
Click to expand...
This is a totally fair way to view this. And please don't interpret my initial statement to be singling out anyone in here.

 
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