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Start 2 QB & Superflex Leagues: Discussion and Strategy thread

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All my dynasty leagues are 2QB, but are generally a little more balanced out with a 3rd RB, 2nd TE, or an extra flex.

There's such a small gap in between QB's from 7~20 so it definitely makes it a little more challenging in how you pair your QB's up and all. It's like redraft after only playing dynasty, 2QB is the only way for me to play anymore ha.

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2QB 10 team dynasty, 6pts/TD, no ppr, no contracts. In that league QBs have an absolute chokehold on the league. One guy has Rogers, Brees, Stafford, Kaep. Another has had Brady, Cam and Romo. They are locked into top 4 every year, and won't trade unless it's a HUGE offer.

Just be careful.

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Agreed, 2QB or Superflex leagues where there isn't an escalating cost to keep QB's from year to year can quickly become untenable after a while.

In my dynasty league (which rosters somewhere around 40-50 QB's, including NFL 3rd-stringers in some case, since there is no waiver wire), we have one owner who has 6 or 7 starting QB's, while two teams struggled to start the minimum two. Fortunately, with escalating salaries at the end of every contract (and significant increases for players in the top-20, which is the majority of starting-caliber QB's), this situation won't last more than a year or two.

Even crappy QB's are worth their weight in gold, so it's paramount that there's a mechanism to ensure that a few are returned to the free agency pool every year.

Edited by SelenaCat

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Agreed, 2QB or Superflex leagues where there isn't an escalating cost to keep QB's from year to year can quickly become untenable after a while.

In my dynasty league (which rosters somewhere around 40-50 QB's, including NFL 3rd-stringers in some case, since there is no waiver wire), we have one owner who has 6 or 7 starting QB's, while two teams struggled to start the minimum two. Fortunately, with escalating salaries at the end of every contract (and significant increases for players in the top-20, which is the majority of starting-caliber QB's), this situation won't last more than a year or two.

Even crappy QB's are worth their weight in gold, so it's paramount that there's a mechanism to ensure that a few are returned to the free agency pool every year.

The reason why I like a league like this is the rookie drafts actually mimic the NFL drafts. Watkins isn't the consensus #1 and Sankey doesn't even sniff the top 3. There's actually value placed on QB and teams have to make much more difficult decisions on middling QB talent...much like the NFL does as well.

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Dynasty vs. redraft makes a big difference, since good QBs have more stability and longevity than any other position.

In redraft, if you miss out on the Wilson/Kaepernick tier and take someone like Tannehill, Dalton, or Bradford instead, you're probably only costing yourself a couple points per game.

But in dynasty, guys like Wilson have a good shot to keep doing what they're doing for the next decade, while guys like Tannehill face the risk of going the Josh Freeman route and being out of a job within a couple years. Invest in a good young QB and he'll keep paying off for years and years; scrounge for a starter and you may have to keep putting resources into the position year after year.

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I only do one league a year that has superflex, and QBs definitely lead teams to titles in that league. Weird rules allow you to actually have the ability to start THREE QBs, since one of the lineup rules says you have to start a "rookie of any position". So land a good rookie QB late somehow and bam.

If I did a 2 QB league for dynasty there would have to be some sort of rules, either roster limits or limit total number of QBs, so that teams don't get lucky and hit on some top tier young QBs and then rule the league with scoring and trades for ever and ever.

The leagues I am in become top heavy quick enough as it is.

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I only do one league a year that has superflex, and QBs definitely lead teams to titles in that league. Weird rules allow you to actually have the ability to start THREE QBs, since one of the lineup rules says you have to start a "rookie of any position". So land a good rookie QB late somehow and bam.

If I did a 2 QB league for dynasty there would have to be some sort of rules, either roster limits or limit total number of QBs, so that teams don't get lucky and hit on some top tier young QBs and then rule the league with scoring and trades for ever and ever.

The leagues I am in become top heavy quick enough as it is.

I am in multiple Superfelx leagues. A couple are only 3 pt per TD pass leagues (to create parity) and one caps the amount of QB's on a roster at four. One also is a super duper flex and we can start 1-3 QB's (this is a 6 pt per TD pass league).

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I only do one league a year that has superflex, and QBs definitely lead teams to titles in that league. Weird rules allow you to actually have the ability to start THREE QBs, since one of the lineup rules says you have to start a "rookie of any position". So land a good rookie QB late somehow and bam.

If I did a 2 QB league for dynasty there would have to be some sort of rules, either roster limits or limit total number of QBs, so that teams don't get lucky and hit on some top tier young QBs and then rule the league with scoring and trades for ever and ever.

The leagues I am in become top heavy quick enough as it is.

I am in multiple Superfelx leagues. A couple are only 3 pt per TD pass leagues (to create parity) and one caps the amount of QB's on a roster at four. One also is a super duper flex and we can start 1-3 QB's (this is a 6 pt per TD pass league).

Even capping QBs at 4 though doesn't help much to me. I'm in a few 2QB leagues here are some of the random QB rosters teams have:

Team 1: Andrew Luck, Matthew Stafford, Matt Ryan & Cam Newton

Team 2: Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Andy Dalton, Mike Glennon

Team 3: Drew Brees, Jay Cutler, Nick Foles, RG3

Team 4: Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers

the list can go on, but even just having these types of QB rosters in leagues is insane. If you have even 2 people who have 4 starting QBs then that makes the remainder of even a 10 team league praying that one of their backups can win a job. Also note, the above are from 2 separate leagues which is why you see an overlap with Ryan. I'm certainly a fan of the idea of say every 4-5 seasons QBs get dropped into an auction bidding war. Even if you don't do salaries for the rest of your players, just QBs alone would make the league more competitive.

Edited by Khy

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Im only in 10 team 2qb leagues now. One weve been 2qb for 7 years now. Goes pretty well. Its redraft with one keeper. We have a cap on the number of starting QBs you can roster. No more than 4 on the roster for the week. You can have up to 4 more non starting Qbs if you wish. If one of the backups becomes a starter, the owner must drop one of the 5 qbs before the week starts or the last one added to their roster is automatically dropped for them. It helps keep the pool somewhat level for all involved.

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I'm not a fan of 2QB leagues, but I'm confused why PPR is considered necessary to keep RBs from dominating while most consider it acceptable that the elite QBs are falling into the 3rd round.

I assume since PPR became the standard, eventually 2 QBs (or superflex) will as well.

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I agree that there needs to be some incentive to prevent QB hoarding. Another way to prevent is to increase the number of other starters. It makes trading a third starter more attractive because there are many more spots to upgrade.

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I agree that there needs to be some incentive to prevent QB hoarding. Another way to prevent is to increase the number of other starters. It makes trading a third starter more attractive because there are many more spots to upgrade.

Yeah, the issue is I'm not sure that still works. Think of it this was, if it's 2QB and not Superflex than you MUST start two per week. Which means you need at least 3 QBs and they can't share a bye week. Which is why in dynasty most people try to stash 4 starters if possible because you can't predict future byes. My personal opinion is that 2QB kind of just sucks and Superflex would be much better. Even in a 10 team league there's know way every team will have 3 starters. Cause you figure on average at least 2-4 teams have injuries or simply changes to their starting QB mid year. So saying there are 32 starters is a little misleading. It's more like 28-29 and that number expands to like 35 "valuable" QBs. Your Kirk Cousins, Matt Flynn types who are backing up QBs that have had significant injuries. Then the guys like Derek Carr, Scahub, Bortles & Henne. Definitely Manziel and Hoyer. But there's only like 25 legit every week start types. And being that most leagues have 2-3 teams with 4 of those? It makes a real strangle hold on the league. Not amount of roster or scoring changes are likely to adjust that. By making 2QB leagues you automatically make the scaresist position the most needed.

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Khy, on 17 Jun 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:
Gawain, on 17 Jun 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

I agree that there needs to be some incentive to prevent QB hoarding. Another way to prevent is to increase the number of other starters. It makes trading a third starter more attractive because there are many more spots to upgrade.

Yeah, the issue is I'm not sure that still works. Think of it this was, if it's 2QB and not Superflex than you MUST start two per week. Which means you need at least 3 QBs and they can't share a bye week. Which is why in dynasty most people try to stash 4 starters if possible because you can't predict future byes. My personal opinion is that 2QB kind of just sucks and Superflex would be much better. Even in a 10 team league there's know way every team will have 3 starters. Cause you figure on average at least 2-4 teams have injuries or simply changes to their starting QB mid year. So saying there are 32 starters is a little misleading. It's more like 28-29 and that number expands to like 35 "valuable" QBs. Your Kirk Cousins, Matt Flynn types who are backing up QBs that have had significant injuries. Then the guys like Derek Carr, Scahub, Bortles & Henne. Definitely Manziel and Hoyer. But there's only like 25 legit every week start types. And being that most leagues have 2-3 teams with 4 of those? It makes a real strangle hold on the league. Not amount of roster or scoring changes are likely to adjust that. By making 2QB leagues you automatically make the scaresist position the most needed.

Instead of Superflex, I like the idea that the second spot is QB/TE. If you're in a hole, it's not a guaranteed zero, but there's an impetus to have two quarterbacks. going at all times. I also like that the diamonds in the rough actually have value. I had to give up Ben Tate for Case Keenum last year. Scott Tolzien was a hot commodity and at least one team got to experience the joys of Tuel Time.

I'm not in a true 2-QB dynasty (Keep 6), so the lesser QBs and backups get churned. But even in a true dynasty, there's an opportunity to make offers for the Kaepernicks and Foles of the world before they get their opportunity.

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Khy, on 17 Jun 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:
Gawain, on 17 Jun 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

I agree that there needs to be some incentive to prevent QB hoarding. Another way to prevent is to increase the number of other starters. It makes trading a third starter more attractive because there are many more spots to upgrade.

Yeah, the issue is I'm not sure that still works. Think of it this was, if it's 2QB and not Superflex than you MUST start two per week. Which means you need at least 3 QBs and they can't share a bye week. Which is why in dynasty most people try to stash 4 starters if possible because you can't predict future byes. My personal opinion is that 2QB kind of just sucks and Superflex would be much better. Even in a 10 team league there's know way every team will have 3 starters. Cause you figure on average at least 2-4 teams have injuries or simply changes to their starting QB mid year. So saying there are 32 starters is a little misleading. It's more like 28-29 and that number expands to like 35 "valuable" QBs. Your Kirk Cousins, Matt Flynn types who are backing up QBs that have had significant injuries. Then the guys like Derek Carr, Scahub, Bortles & Henne. Definitely Manziel and Hoyer. But there's only like 25 legit every week start types. And being that most leagues have 2-3 teams with 4 of those? It makes a real strangle hold on the league. Not amount of roster or scoring changes are likely to adjust that. By making 2QB leagues you automatically make the scaresist position the most needed.

Instead of Superflex, I like the idea that the second spot is QB/TE. If you're in a hole, it's not a guaranteed zero, but there's an impetus to have two quarterbacks. going at all times. I also like that the diamonds in the rough actually have value. I had to give up Ben Tate for Case Keenum last year. Scott Tolzien was a hot commodity and at least one team got to experience the joys of Tuel Time.

I'm not in a true 2-QB dynasty (Keep 6), so the lesser QBs and backups get churned. But even in a true dynasty, there's an opportunity to make offers for the Kaepernicks and Foles of the world before they get their opportunity.

Yeah, I guess? Idk, in my 2QB leagues people hold a pretty tight noose around any player they feel has a path to a starting job. Any of these guys who were drafting in the Top 2 rounds of rookie drafts are usually held onto pretty tight. Kaepernick was a high 2nd round pick in all of my 2QB leagues when he came out. Foles was a mid-3rd and he'd likely have been higher too if it weren't for the fact that the Eagles looked like they were in a complete crash-and-burn status following the 2011 season.

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Obviously dynasty changes things and superflex is probably more appropriate. For a keep 1 league though, theres plenty of opportunity to obtain the necessary amount of QBs. In our 7 years of redraft 2 qb Ive only seen one week where a guy had no qb to play and that was purey his fault as he traded one of the 3 away and didnt get a WW pickup he wanted.

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Gawain, on 16 Jun 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:
SelenaCat, on 16 Jun 2014 - 9:20 PM, said:

Agreed, 2QB or Superflex leagues where there isn't an escalating cost to keep QB's from year to year can quickly become untenable after a while.

In my dynasty league (which rosters somewhere around 40-50 QB's, including NFL 3rd-stringers in some case, since there is no waiver wire), we have one owner who has 6 or 7 starting QB's, while two teams struggled to start the minimum two. Fortunately, with escalating salaries at the end of every contract (and significant increases for players in the top-20, which is the majority of starting-caliber QB's), this situation won't last more than a year or two.

Even crappy QB's are worth their weight in gold, so it's paramount that there's a mechanism to ensure that a few are returned to the free agency pool every year.

The reason why I like a league like this is the rookie drafts actually mimic the NFL drafts. Watkins isn't the consensus #1 and Sankey doesn't even sniff the top 3. There's actually value placed on QB and teams have to make much more difficult decisions on middling QB talent...much like the NFL does as well.

Absolutely, and since having only 1-2 rosterable QB's tends to make for a poor team and therefore better draft picks, you often see those QB's going early. I'm certain that in my 10-team dynasty league, two QB's will be taken in the first three picks, and a third by the sixth. It's not a particularly strong QB class, but I would expect at least two more rookie QB's to be taken as well, though with the escalating salaries and 3-year contract for rookies, there's less incentive to take "stash and wait" players.

As a note, 2QB works moderately well with 10-team leagues, but I'd absolutely push for Superflex in any 12-team or larger leagues as it's entirely possible for someone to get locked out of that 2nd QB, especially in an auction format, and there's no joy in having a team required to start a player who is either injured or not playing.

Edited by SelenaCat

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My 10 team auction dynasty league uses 2 quarterbacks and I love it. Huge strategy change when its a 2 quarterback league and when you combine that with auction it just becomes a chess match at the draft. I highly recommend it.

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12 team league

4 or 6 pts for passing TD's in the superflex format with PPR?

Starting lineup configuration 2RB/2WR 1 superflex, 2 RB/3WR 1 superflex, 2RB/2WR/1 FLEX RB/WR & 1 superflex?

How about roster size for a 12 team league?

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One league I am in is a more for fun keeper league of 8 teams. We start 2 QBs at only 4 pts per TD. It's PPR as well where we can start 2 RB, 2WR, 1TE and 2 FLEX.

Overall, QBs don't dominate the league. I've won it with a Romo/Cutler type combo before.

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2QB leagues have 2 huge problems.

1: The Blaine Gabbert effect. In the draft, even the worst QBs have value. Specifically they have way higher value than they should. All teams should have 3 QBs (even Superflex) and even horrible 3rd options (like Gabbert was) are better picks than backup WR4/5 types. Fantasy football, above all else, is about fun. It's no fun putting a guy you hate on your roster because you don't have much choice.

2: the first 2 rounds are dominated by QB, by design. There is just little to no risk in a top 3 pick. You get an elite QB, a second conventional first round pick near the 2/3 turn then a third borderline 1st round pick in the third. How is the guy at the 1/2 turn supposed to counteract a Manning/Murray/Julio start? Or a Manning/Bell/Big Ben start? The pressure to take a QB in the first 2 rounds is massive and it gives the guys drafting earlier a pretty big advantage.

By the end of the fourth round in most leagues that can start 2QBs, Carson Palmer should be gone. That should be enough reason to never be in a 2QB league. The whole thing boils down to higher draft position = more consistant team = huge advantage

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2QB leagues have 2 huge problems.

1: The Blaine Gabbert effect. In the draft, even the worst QBs have value. Specifically they have way higher value than they should. All teams should have 3 QBs (even Superflex) and even horrible 3rd options (like Gabbert was) are better picks than backup WR4/5 types. Fantasy football, above all else, is about fun. It's no fun putting a guy you hate on your roster because you don't have much choice.

2: the first 2 rounds are dominated by QB, by design. There is just little to no risk in a top 3 pick. You get an elite QB, a second conventional first round pick near the 2/3 turn then a third borderline 1st round pick in the third. How is the guy at the 1/2 turn supposed to counteract a Manning/Murray/Julio start? Or a Manning/Bell/Big Ben start? The pressure to take a QB in the first 2 rounds is massive and it gives the guys drafting earlier a pretty big advantage.

By the end of the fourth round in most leagues that can start 2QBs, Carson Palmer should be gone. That should be enough reason to never be in a 2QB league. The whole thing boils down to higher draft position = more consistant team = huge advantage

One giant strawman of a post we have here.

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2QB leagues have 2 huge problems.

1: The Blaine Gabbert effect. In the draft, even the worst QBs have value. Specifically they have way higher value than they should. All teams should have 3 QBs (even Superflex) and even horrible 3rd options (like Gabbert was) are better picks than backup WR4/5 types. Fantasy football, above all else, is about fun. It's no fun putting a guy you hate on your roster because you don't have much choice.

2: the first 2 rounds are dominated by QB, by design. There is just little to no risk in a top 3 pick. You get an elite QB, a second conventional first round pick near the 2/3 turn then a third borderline 1st round pick in the third. How is the guy at the 1/2 turn supposed to counteract a Manning/Murray/Julio start? Or a Manning/Bell/Big Ben start? The pressure to take a QB in the first 2 rounds is massive and it gives the guys drafting earlier a pretty big advantage.

By the end of the fourth round in most leagues that can start 2QBs, Carson Palmer should be gone. That should be enough reason to never be in a 2QB league. The whole thing boils down to higher draft position = more consistant team = huge advantage

Never played in a 2qb league I see. Palmer and similar qbs still go in the 7-10 rd range because people have different strategies much like regular leagues. Some people like to go Qb-Qb but are left with suspect rbs or wrs. Others like a more balanced approach. Then theres guys who like to take studs at rb and wr and take a shot on the mid tier qbs carrying them.

Its all about variety and more strategy. Traditional leagues are dominated by RBs. PPR is dominated by WRs. 2qb leagues need a balanced team to win the title. In my two leagues last year, the guy with the 8th pick won one with Romo and Cutler while having McCown from the WW. My other league the guy had the #1 pick with Brees and Dalton. So many different ways to win. Which is why it is so much fun.

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I got one league that is a Superflex league. 10 team league, start 1 QB, 1 RB, 3 WR/TE (combined into one position), 1 FLEX ANY, and 1 FLEX RB/WR/TE. It's also a PPR.

The draft strategy is probably the hardest one I deal with every year as the QBs don't usually go as fast as I see in other 2 QB/Superflex leagues. I drafted 2 early a few years ago and my team wasn't very good. Waited until round 6/7 last year and my team was better. Only a few seem to go each round with really no big runs. Makes for a tough decision or two on a draft strategy. I really enjoy the league however and it's probably the most challenging one I have.

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My main league is a 10 team 2QB dynasty that starts QQRRWWTTFFF with 26 man rosters. I'd prefer that it was a superflex (just one of the flexes), but the league hasn't had a problem with anyone getting absolutely frozen out on the QB front. A few only have two viable starters, but punting two weeks isn't the end of the world if you can't scrounge a stopgap for a cheap price since the top 6 make the playoffs (top 2 have byes). The starting requirements are just deep enough, and benches just thin enough, that QB hoarding isn't very practical if you have any real interest in winning.



I enjoy the league, and especially the intrigue that now accompanies the rookie draft. Instead of a Watkins/Evans snooze-fest (barring a Sankey cameo), even the top drafters are now forced to factor in the three QBs who might not start coming off the board until the mid-to-late second in a standard rookie draft. If the draft plays out like I think it will, pick #5 will be choosing between Bortles/Sankey/Ebron. That's a pretty compelling situation, as all three are valuable commodities in this league.


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2QB leagues have 2 huge problems.

1: The Blaine Gabbert effect. In the draft, even the worst QBs have value. Specifically they have way higher value than they should. All teams should have 3 QBs (even Superflex) and even horrible 3rd options (like Gabbert was) are better picks than backup WR4/5 types. Fantasy football, above all else, is about fun. It's no fun putting a guy you hate on your roster because you don't have much choice.

2: the first 2 rounds are dominated by QB, by design. There is just little to no risk in a top 3 pick. You get an elite QB, a second conventional first round pick near the 2/3 turn then a third borderline 1st round pick in the third. How is the guy at the 1/2 turn supposed to counteract a Manning/Murray/Julio start? Or a Manning/Bell/Big Ben start? The pressure to take a QB in the first 2 rounds is massive and it gives the guys drafting earlier a pretty big advantage.

By the end of the fourth round in most leagues that can start 2QBs, Carson Palmer should be gone. That should be enough reason to never be in a 2QB league. The whole thing boils down to higher draft position = more consistant team = huge advantage

never happens like that in the 2qb league im in or in any other 2 qb leagues i have played in.

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Nice, some Superflex discussion. So annoying when the all mainstream media goes on and on about drafting QBs late or maybe snagging Peyton in the 4th round.

My main league is a 10 team Superflex redraft, 6pt Passing TD, PPR, Return Yards and IDP so its hard to find any realistic ADP. At least all the other guys in the league are in the same position. Last year was the first year we switched to this format and everyone took a QB in the 1st two rounds, but I suspect it may be heavier than that this year, with 2 in the first 3 rounds. I'd be surprised if anyone went QB-QB, but it could happen. At least the early rounds won't be predictable.

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I am in a "start 2 qb league", it's an 8 team league, we start 10 players, with no D, with heavy points value towards qbs, including extra points for distance scoring.

The first 3 picks will be qbs, but next 5 will be complete mixed bag... as the strategy of when to take your #1qb weights against the value of the top 4 RBs and DT/CJ.

We do have a roster cap of only carying 3 qbs to deter hoarding for competetive balance.

Trying to win with choosing a late qb ranked #13-#16 is a very dicey formula that works once in awhile, but the best success comes from grabbing a top qb early in rds 1-2, then finding a 2nd qb in the mid rounds. Hitting on Dalton/Rivers late last year was pure gold. But there is a new strategy every year as new QB powers emege as a result of our scoring system every year.

Running QBs are not overly valued in my league, so the passing length TDs count for a ton more. PManning is a complete rock start with D Brees and a solid A Rodgers.

Lots of strategy for the smaller league, and a hard roster size of 16 keeps the league competetive and the waiver wire very active. We also have a hard cap and blind bidding for the waiver wire.

Ive been in this league for over 20 years, the small size keeps the onwership turnover manageable, and the start 2qb option with "distance" scoring makes it very different from most leagues.

If anyone wants a copy of my scoring rules just PM me if you are interested in a high flying scoring start 2QB league.

BTW enjoyed last weeks On The Couch where Bloom discussed 2QB leagues, really great stuff.

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12 team league

4 or 6 pts for passing TD's in the superflex format with PPR?

Starting lineup configuration 2RB/2WR 1 superflex, 2 RB/3WR 1 superflex, 2RB/2WR/1 FLEX RB/WR & 1 superflex?

How about roster size for a 12 team league?

I would not be part of a 2QB or Superflex league that used "QB-friendly" scoring (.05 pt per PY / 6-pt pass TD or more), especially not one employing a snake draft format.
At that point, the positional advantage at QB relative to every other position becomes overwhelming and - because the gap between QB1 and QB10 is just so large - you're in a situation where a completely random factor (your draft position) weighs heavily on your chances of success.
I've found these types of leagues to work much better when the rules are tweaked to decrease, rather than increase, QB scoring. 3/TD, -2/INT, 1/40 pass yards is a good baseline IMO - at that level, the relatively low VBD generated by the top guys is offset by the inherent scarcity of the position, and you wind up with much more positionally balanced drafts / rosters up and down the line.
I also would stay far away from a must-start 2QB format with 12 teams. Superflex might work with 12, but I've never tried that combination to know one way or another.

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Is anyone in this thread interested in discussing actual players or is this just for talking about league structures, etc.?

There are a lot of QB's whose ADP is QB15+ that are intriguing options to start as someone's second QB. Either as part of a QBBC or sleeper high-end QB2s.

Would be interested in debating the prospects of these and will start a different thread if that is more appropriate

Emerging guys like Locker, Tannehill, S. Bradford etc. plus a number of vets with improved/new situations and/or weapons (C. Palmer, J. Flacco, E. Manning, etc.).

Edited by PhantomJB

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2QB 10 team dynasty, 6pts/TD, no ppr, no contracts.

I'm in one league just like this, though it is Superflex, rather than start 2Q. Out of 220 roster slots for the league, 43 are currently being used on QBs, and we haven't had our rookie draft yet. So that number could increase.

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Gawain, on 16 Jun 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:
SelenaCat, on 16 Jun 2014 - 9:20 PM, said:

Agreed, 2QB or Superflex leagues where there isn't an escalating cost to keep QB's from year to year can quickly become untenable after a while.

In my dynasty league (which rosters somewhere around 40-50 QB's, including NFL 3rd-stringers in some case, since there is no waiver wire), we have one owner who has 6 or 7 starting QB's, while two teams struggled to start the minimum two. Fortunately, with escalating salaries at the end of every contract (and significant increases for players in the top-20, which is the majority of starting-caliber QB's), this situation won't last more than a year or two.

Even crappy QB's are worth their weight in gold, so it's paramount that there's a mechanism to ensure that a few are returned to the free agency pool every year.

The reason why I like a league like this is the rookie drafts actually mimic the NFL drafts. Watkins isn't the consensus #1 and Sankey doesn't even sniff the top 3. There's actually value placed on QB and teams have to make much more difficult decisions on middling QB talent...much like the NFL does as well.

Absolutely, and since having only 1-2 rosterable QB's tends to make for a poor team and therefore better draft picks, you often see those QB's going early. I'm certain that in my 10-team dynasty league, two QB's will be taken in the first three picks, and a third by the sixth. It's not a particularly strong QB class, but I would expect at least two more rookie QB's to be taken as well, though with the escalating salaries and 3-year contract for rookies, there's less incentive to take "stash and wait" players.

As a note, 2QB works moderately well with 10-team leagues, but I'd absolutely push for Superflex in any 12-team or larger leagues as it's entirely possible for someone to get locked out of that 2nd QB, especially in an auction format, and there's no joy in having a team required to start a player who is either injured or not playing.

In my league, QBs certainly go earlier in rookie drafts, but not to the same extent being described here. I expect Watkins, Evans, and Sankey to be the top 3 picks in this league. I hold the #3 pick, and I'm not considering a QB, based on my team needs. I think Bridgewater and Manziel will definitely be first rounders; Bortles may slide to the second. When 43 QBs are rostered across 10 teams, QB isn't really a need for many teams.

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Here's a Super-flex redraft that just started if anyone wants to comment on the different strategies going on. Lots of flex options in this league.

10 starters with 18 man rosters, .5 PPR for RB and 1 PPR for WR/TE, .04 ppy and 5 pt passing TD for QB, start 1-2QB, 1-4RB, 2-5WR, 1-4TE

These are not all super savvy owners or experts for sure (except for me...ha ha) but it gives you an idea anyway.

http://football21.myfantasyleague.com/2014/options?L=64472&O=17

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Is anyone in this thread interested in discussing actual players or is this just for talking about league structures, etc.?

There are a lot of QB's whose ADP is QB15+ that are intriguing options to start as someone's second QB. Either as part of a QBBC or sleeper high-end QB2s.

Would be interested in debating the prospects of these and will start a different thread if that is more appropriate

Emerging guys like Locker, Tannehill, S. Bradford etc. plus a number of vets with improved/new situations and/or weapons (C. Palmer, J. Flacco, E. Manning, etc.).

here's the back end of my rankings

Manning, Eli : new coordinator, better? weapons with Beckham and 3rd year Randle

MANZIEL: "if" he wins the job, a real wild card, even without gordon

Smith, Alex : perenially underrated, but andy reid and a weaker d make him a pretty decent fall back

Tannehill, Ryan : new coordinator, soso d, but a shaky line thats been attempted to be shored up make him an upside pick

Manuel, EJ : will he have a holo effect off of sammyw atkins? could get a bump from that alone

Flacco, Joe : adding s smith will free up t smith to do what he does best, i think he has a better year than last years bust year

Bradford, Sam : still a run first team, shotty still is a factor to keep him from being a top guy, but could be very serviceable

BRIDGEWATER: wild card guy if he wins the job, jennings and patterson with ap make him a decent later round flyer

Smith, Geno : as a jets fan i think he will win the job and keep it, better weapons and a west coast offense, he will be effective and very cheap late round option

Fitzpatrick, Ryan : shoudl win the job, and has AK and Hopkins, wild card becuase we dont know what obrein will do with this O, and the D is good, so could be a run low risk O

Locker, Jake: might be a very good guy to pair in a 3QB rotation, talent is decent on the O and the run game might not be all that

Glennon, Mike : Good weapons, but head coach not a pass guy, and will mccown keep this job?

McCown, Josh : not a bad early season guy, but will glennon push him?

BLAKE BORTLES: should start early in the season, and they are building some weapons there, very late round flyer

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2QB leagues have 2 huge problems.

1: The Blaine Gabbert effect. In the draft, even the worst QBs have value. Specifically they have way higher value than they should. All teams should have 3 QBs (even Superflex) and even horrible 3rd options (like Gabbert was) are better picks than backup WR4/5 types. Fantasy football, above all else, is about fun. It's no fun putting a guy you hate on your roster because you don't have much choice.

2: the first 2 rounds are dominated by QB, by design. There is just little to no risk in a top 3 pick. You get an elite QB, a second conventional first round pick near the 2/3 turn then a third borderline 1st round pick in the third. How is the guy at the 1/2 turn supposed to counteract a Manning/Murray/Julio start? Or a Manning/Bell/Big Ben start? The pressure to take a QB in the first 2 rounds is massive and it gives the guys drafting earlier a pretty big advantage.

By the end of the fourth round in most leagues that can start 2QBs, Carson Palmer should be gone. That should be enough reason to never be in a 2QB league. The whole thing boils down to higher draft position = more consistant team = huge advantage

I completely disagree. I have won my 10 player total point start two QB leagues with several different strategies. Seems like you have it out for Blaine for some reason but like anthing else in FFB it is a strategy. Last year there were between 2-3 qb's taken in the first two rounds. Like any other draft the run really didn't start until the 4th round. I will say the winner last year drafted manning and brees early so it will be interesting to see how the QB run goes this year.

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Khy, on 17 Jun 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:
Gawain, on 17 Jun 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

I agree that there needs to be some incentive to prevent QB hoarding. Another way to prevent is to increase the number of other starters. It makes trading a third starter more attractive because there are many more spots to upgrade.

Yeah, the issue is I'm not sure that still works. Think of it this was, if it's 2QB and not Superflex than you MUST start two per week. Which means you need at least 3 QBs and they can't share a bye week. Which is why in dynasty most people try to stash 4 starters if possible because you can't predict future byes. My personal opinion is that 2QB kind of just sucks and Superflex would be much better. Even in a 10 team league there's know way every team will have 3 starters. Cause you figure on average at least 2-4 teams have injuries or simply changes to their starting QB mid year. So saying there are 32 starters is a little misleading. It's more like 28-29 and that number expands to like 35 "valuable" QBs. Your Kirk Cousins, Matt Flynn types who are backing up QBs that have had significant injuries. Then the guys like Derek Carr, Scahub, Bortles & Henne. Definitely Manziel and Hoyer. But there's only like 25 legit every week start types. And being that most leagues have 2-3 teams with 4 of those? It makes a real strangle hold on the league. Not amount of roster or scoring changes are likely to adjust that. By making 2QB leagues you automatically make the scaresist position the most needed.

Instead of Superflex, I like the idea that the second spot is QB/TE. If you're in a hole, it's not a guaranteed zero, but there's an impetus to have two quarterbacks. going at all times. I also like that the diamonds in the rough actually have value. I had to give up Ben Tate for Case Keenum last year. Scott Tolzien was a hot commodity and at least one team got to experience the joys of Tuel Time.

I'm not in a true 2-QB dynasty (Keep 6), so the lesser QBs and backups get churned. But even in a true dynasty, there's an opportunity to make offers for the Kaepernicks and Foles of the world before they get their opportunity.

Yeah, I guess? Idk, in my 2QB leagues people hold a pretty tight noose around any player they feel has a path to a starting job. Any of these guys who were drafting in the Top 2 rounds of rookie drafts are usually held onto pretty tight. Kaepernick was a high 2nd round pick in all of my 2QB leagues when he came out. Foles was a mid-3rd and he'd likely have been higher too if it weren't for the fact that the Eagles looked like they were in a complete crash-and-burn status following the 2011 season.

I think the take away from what he said is about increasing the number of other starters. My leagues use a QB/RB flex but then we add a 4th WR and a 2nd TE and also a WR/TE flex.

I'm sitting on 4 starting QBs right now, and have pretty mediocre to sub par TEs. I'm much more likely to move one now to a QB-hungry team because instead of other teams having an advantage at a single TE starting slot, they now have an advantage at both.

Increasing the value of those other positions helps too. We have staggered PPR, helping TE more than the rest, which also helps keep QB value from outpacing other positions. RB is really the one who suffers, and we're good with that compared to what RB value used to be.

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2QB leagues have 2 huge problems.

1: The Blaine Gabbert effect. In the draft, even the worst QBs have value. Specifically they have way higher value than they should. All teams should have 3 QBs (even Superflex) and even horrible 3rd options (like Gabbert was) are better picks than backup WR4/5 types. Fantasy football, above all else, is about fun. It's no fun putting a guy you hate on your roster because you don't have much choice.

2: the first 2 rounds are dominated by QB, by design. There is just little to no risk in a top 3 pick. You get an elite QB, a second conventional first round pick near the 2/3 turn then a third borderline 1st round pick in the third. How is the guy at the 1/2 turn supposed to counteract a Manning/Murray/Julio start? Or a Manning/Bell/Big Ben start? The pressure to take a QB in the first 2 rounds is massive and it gives the guys drafting earlier a pretty big advantage.

By the end of the fourth round in most leagues that can start 2QBs, Carson Palmer should be gone. That should be enough reason to never be in a 2QB league. The whole thing boils down to higher draft position = more consistant team = huge advantage

I completely disagree. I have won my 10 player total point start two QB leagues with several different strategies. Seems like you have it out for Blaine for some reason but like anthing else in FFB it is a strategy. Last year there were between 2-3 qb's taken in the first two rounds. Like any other draft the run really didn't start until the 4th round. I will say the winner last year drafted manning and brees early so it will be interesting to see how the QB run goes this year.

I played in three start 2QB leagues last year. These were deep leagues with 14 starters and 10 team leagues w/24 man rosters. I won the championship in one with Campbell, Cassell, Clemens / Bradford, Palmer, Schaub, and had Geno and Manuel early on,and didn't draft the 1st QB until pick 11.3

In the other I lost in the championship game and had some combination during the year of Cutler, Wilson, Fitzpatrick, Glennon, Manuel and Geno, and didn't draft the 1st QB until 7.8

In the third league I missed the playoffs by 1 VP (top 4 make playoffs), with Big Ben, Flacco, Cassell and Gabbert and didn't draft the 1st QB until 6.10

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2QB leagues have 2 huge problems.

1: The Blaine Gabbert effect. In the draft, even the worst QBs have value. Specifically they have way higher value than they should. All teams should have 3 QBs (even Superflex) and even horrible 3rd options (like Gabbert was) are better picks than backup WR4/5 types. Fantasy football, above all else, is about fun. It's no fun putting a guy you hate on your roster because you don't have much choice.

2: the first 2 rounds are dominated by QB, by design. There is just little to no risk in a top 3 pick. You get an elite QB, a second conventional first round pick near the 2/3 turn then a third borderline 1st round pick in the third. How is the guy at the 1/2 turn supposed to counteract a Manning/Murray/Julio start? Or a Manning/Bell/Big Ben start? The pressure to take a QB in the first 2 rounds is massive and it gives the guys drafting earlier a pretty big advantage.

By the end of the fourth round in most leagues that can start 2QBs, Carson Palmer should be gone. That should be enough reason to never be in a 2QB league. The whole thing boils down to higher draft position = more consistant team = huge advantage

1) Everything you said applies to 1 QB leagues but instead of QBs being out of whack, it's RBs that are disproportionately taken in the first few rounds and you end up having to rely on guys like Mark Ingram, Chris Ivory and Jordan Todman.

2) Leagues where guys like Cordarrelle Patterson are drafted before guys like Cam Newton & Matthew Stafford, and where you can get Joe Flacco or Eli Manning on the waiver wire are, IMO, even more wonky.

3) Early draft position in snake drafts are favored in any format.

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QBs should have value. They are the most important position in the sport, and therefore should be important in fantasy as well. Every starting qb should be on a roster.

Edited by Leeroy Jenkins

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I'm currently in an PPR 14 team, Auction Superflex Startup. The QB were downgraded with a -3 INT and -.5 sack and its very interesting.

$300 cap, 5% yearly 4 year contract max.

With the ability to put 1st and 2nd yr players on the TS for only 10% the cost during the auction, Johnny and Teddy were very expensive but other than that the QBs for the most part were fairly affordable. Ofcourse the cream of the crop where expensive (15% of the cap each) but QBs 5 - 15 were more reasonable(10 - 8% each). I myself 1st got Cam at $29.25 and he was #10 priced QB. A day or so later I was the highest bidder on RG3 for most of the timer until a "price adjuster" thought my RG3 bid was too low and out bidded me (at the time he had 2 high priced QBs already, he now has 4!). I turned my attention on Russel Wilson and overpaid at $27 (he was the 13th priced QB).

The draft is almost a quarter of the way done but most of the big players are taken and almost all starting QBs

http://football4.myfantasyleague.com/2014/options?L=26388&O=102&SORT=POSITION

Edited by KellysHeroes

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