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gianmarco

***Official Melvin "Flash" Gordon*** Thread of Love

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He looked extremely rusty, to the point where forcing the issue with him may have cost them the game. Ekeler easily outplayed, and I can't say for certain Jackson/Pope wouldn't have been better. Hopefully its just rust, and he is much better next week, because the guy who showed up today, isn't in Ekeler's league.

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11 hours ago, travdogg said:

He looked extremely rusty, to the point where forcing the issue with him may have cost them the game. Ekeler easily outplayed, and I can't say for certain Jackson/Pope wouldn't have been better. Hopefully its just rust, and he is much better next week, because the guy who showed up today, isn't in Ekeler's league.

Ekeler looked great fumbling the ball right next to the end zone 😂

Edited by Weebs210

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8 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

Ekeler looked great fumbling the ball right next to the end zone 😂

Please, that was a perfectly fine play. That fumble was meaningless. There was no time left on the clock, it was 4th down, and he was trying to stretch the ball into the endzone. It was the RB version of a QB throwing an INT on a hail mary. 

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1 hour ago, travdogg said:
1 hour ago, Weebs210 said:

Ekeler looked great fumbling the ball right next to the end zone 😂

Please, that was a perfectly fine play. That fumble was meaningless. There was no time left on the clock, it was 4th down, and he was trying to stretch the ball into the endzone. It was the RB version of a QB throwing an INT on a hail mary. 

:goodposting: 

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2 hours ago, travdogg said:

Please, that was a perfectly fine play. That fumble was meaningless. There was no time left on the clock, it was 4th down, and he was trying to stretch the ball into the endzone. It was the RB version of a QB throwing an INT on a hail mary. 

What? They lost by 7. So no it wasn't the same as a hail Mary lmao.

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7 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

What? They lost by 7. So no it wasn't the same as a hail Mary lmao.

It's exactly the same as a hail mary.

Either he scores or he doesn't.  It makes no difference if he fumbles, gets tackled, or goes out of bounds.

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10 minutes ago, davearm said:

It's exactly the same as a hail mary.

Either he scores or he doesn't.  It makes no difference if he fumbles, gets tackled, or goes out of bounds.

Ekeler himself disagrees so.

“This is the NFL,” he said. “You lose games doing that. It’s a crucial time. It’s like, ‘OK, we got all the way down here. Now, we have to finish the drive.’ I gotta hang on to the ball.”

Asked if he felt he would have scored, he added, “If I held on to the ball, yeah, I do. He just hit my arm.”

Edited by Weebs210

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1 minute ago, Weebs210 said:

Ekeler himself disagrees so.

“This is the NFL,” he said. “You lose games doing that. It’s a crucial time. It’s like, ‘OK, we got all the way down here. Now, we have to finish the drive.’ I gotta hang on to the ball.”

Well then both of you are misguided.

Hanging onto the ball and going out of bounds with it yields the exact same outcome.

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Just now, davearm said:

Well then both of you are misguided.

Hanging onto the ball and going out of bounds with it yields the exact same outcome.

And not fumbling results in a TD. Ekeler owner spotted.

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1 minute ago, davearm said:

Nope.  Go watch the video.  Ekeler's hands never got to the pylon, even after losing the ball.  The last few seconds of the replay make it very clear.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/video?gameId=401128019

I've watched the replay. He would have scored if he didn't fumble. I'm sure in the film room Ekeler will say "There was no time left on the clock, it was 4th down, and I was trying to stretch the ball into the endzone. It was the RB version of a QB throwing an INT on a hail mary" 

Edited by Weebs210

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1 minute ago, Weebs210 said:

I've watched the replay. He would have scored if he didn't fumble. I'm sure in the film room Ekeler will say "There was no time left on the clock, it was 4th down, and I was trying to stretch the ball into the endzone. It was the RB version of a QB throwing an INT on a hail mary" 

LOL.  His hands were almost a full yard short of the pylon, even after losing the ball.  

Regardless, the situation was exactly the same as a hail mary -- either you score or you don't, and nothing else matters.

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2 hours ago, fruity pebbles said:

Gordon should sue his agent for career suicide

Why is it his agent's fault? I doubt his agent wanted to miss paychecks.

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Nobody really gets to gloat after that outcome.

But MG will get the bulk of the carries - and Ekeler will get a lot of pass targets and some runs.

But uh we knew that already.

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1 hour ago, Weebs210 said:

I've watched the replay. He would have scored if he didn't fumble. I'm sure in the film room Ekeler will say "There was no time left on the clock, it was 4th down, and I was trying to stretch the ball into the endzone. It was the RB version of a QB throwing an INT on a hail mary" 

Dude, you are flat wrong here. Apparently you need to watch the replay again. Ekeler had zero chance of scoring on that play due to an excellent play by the defender, fumble or no fumble.

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8 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

Dude, you are flat wrong here. Apparently you need to watch the replay again. Ekeler had zero chance of scoring on that play due to an excellent play by the defender, fumble or no fumble.

You are the last person's opinion I will listen to about anything Ekeler. He easily scores there if he doesn't fumble. I'll trust what I see and the words of the player. 

Asked if he felt he would have scored, he added, “If I held on to the ball, yeah, I do. He just hit my arm.”

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1 hour ago, Weebs210 said:
1 hour ago, Just Win Baby said:

Dude, you are flat wrong here. Apparently you need to watch the replay again. Ekeler had zero chance of scoring on that play due to an excellent play by the defender, fumble or no fumble.

You are the last person's opinion I will listen to about anything Ekeler. He easily scores there if he doesn't fumble. I'll trust what I see and the words of the player. 

Asked if he felt he would have scored, he added, “If I held on to the ball, yeah, I do. He just hit my arm.”

Because I have been so wrong about Ekeler so far?

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Quote

Coach Anthony Lynn said Friday, "You could see Melvin’s rep count going up."

Lynn added, "I mean, I think last week Austin [Ekeler]’s rep count was much higher than Melvin’s. You could see Melvin’s going up this week." He also stated, "We have a package to put both those guys on the field, and it’s a pretty good package." Gordon is expected to play more snaps than Ekeler moving forward, but the fantasy-friendly nature of Ekeler's huge pass-game role makes both RBs viable RB2s for Sunday's matchup against the Steelers.

SOURCE: PFT on Twitter.

Oct 11, 2019, 4:10 PM ET

 

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3 hours ago, JoeSteeler said:

anyone starting Gordon and Ekeler this week in PPR?  Leaning towards it in my 16 team league.

In 12 team dynasty p, I have both Gordon/Ekeler and Gurley/Brown. Have to decide on 2 of those 4 and the Gordon/Ekeler option is definitely on the table (though, if Gurley is inactive, I think I have to start Brown over a workload split with Ekeler). 

Edited by joey
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Melvin Gordon rushed eight times for 18 yards in the Chargers' Week 6 loss to the Steelers, adding three receptions for 30 additional yards.

The entire Chargers’ run game was held in check for most of the evening. Overall, they converted 14 carries into just 32 scoreless yards. The good news for Gordon’s future fantasy forecast is that he managed to out-snap Austin Ekeler 37-to-28 (per PFF). This included plenty of pass-down work despite the Chargers trailing by multiple scores for most of the game, indicating Gordon’s fantasy production should be fairly independent of game script moving forward. Still, it's best to approach Gordon has more of a low-end RB2 for next week’s matchup at the Titans until this Chargers offense can show some signs of life.

 

Edited by The Frankman

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A first round fantasy RB available in the fifth round seemed like a no brainer draft, but now I'm not so sure.  Their OL is terrible right now and splitting work with Ekeler is no bueno.

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With that OL I’m not sure either of the Chargers RB is worth starting right now. Yeesh. That was a train wreck. 

With Gordon back that’s now a 60-40 RBBC from hell too. 

Chargers look really bad. Games against the Raiders & Chiefs should be fruitful, but even then I’m not sure that tissue paper OL can stop a stiff breeze. 

I realize not every team can pressure like PIT, but I’m betting a lot of DC’s went to school on SNF & will try to do the same things. 

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That o line is real bad. Gordon had no chance, was having to change direction before he even got to the line. Often times being hit at or behind the LOS. Yikes. On the rare occasions he made it to the open field he looked ok.

 

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42 minutes ago, iamkoza said:

That o line is real bad. Gordon had no chance, was having to change direction before he even got to the line. Often times being hit at or behind the LOS. Yikes. On the rare occasions he made it to the open field he looked ok.

I don't 100% disagree, but that might just be the new normal for the Chargers.

One thing we can all probably agree on, Melvin Gordon's contract year isn't going anywhere near how he'd hoped. 

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I cant recall a worse "holdout" outcome.  His value is just....kerplunk!  I know we can't make a direct comparison here but I actually liked how the Chargers were operating before he came back.  Whoever made the call for the Chargers to let him sit out thinking they would be just fine without him deserves a raise.  They were dead on. 

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2 hours ago, Shutout said:

I cant recall a worse "holdout" outcome.  His value is just....kerplunk!  I know we can't make a direct comparison here but I actually liked how the Chargers were operating before he came back.  Whoever made the call for the Chargers to let him sit out thinking they would be just fine without him deserves a raise.  They were dead on. 

Yes, and whoever made the decision to shift most of Ekeler's snaps to Gordon in his first 2 games back deserves to be fired, because he/they were dead wrong. Looking at you, Whisenhunt and Lynn.

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13 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

Yes, and whoever made the decision to shift most of Ekeler's snaps to Gordon in his first 2 games back deserves to be fired, because he/they were dead wrong. Looking at you, Whisenhunt and Lynn.

Ekeler looked horrible as well last game lol.

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The Chargers are 2-4 because they didn't pay Gordon.

This narrative that Ekeler is playing better than Gordon is true in fantasy football, but Gordon averaged a career high 5.1 ypc last year. Ekeler is averaging 3.8 this year and has two lost fumbles. 

I know ekeler has caught the ball well, but he could have been catching the ball as a 1b back instead of a primary ball carrier.  

The chargers had 104 rushing first downs last year. They had 26 through the first 5 weeks (pro football reference isn't updated for week 6 yet).  They've converted first downs through the air at a good rate but those are inherently riskier passes when you're not running well. Rivers had 13 turnovers last year.  He has 8 already this year. 

Hunter Henry and Williams being hurt impacted the offense. Gordon being out and now rusty is hurting the offense more. 

Like the 2018 Steelers with Bell, the Chargers badly miscalculated by falling to bring in their most important offensive player and wasted a year of a dwindling championship window.  They will have slightly more cap space to sign players for next year when it's too late but 2019 was a rare opportunity at a division title with a vulnerable mahomes chiefs team losing a couple games already. 

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3 hours ago, bostonfred said:

The Chargers are 2-4 because they didn't pay Gordon.

This narrative that Ekeler is playing better than Gordon is true in fantasy football, but Gordon averaged a career high 5.1 ypc last year. Ekeler is averaging 3.8 this year and has two lost fumbles. 

I know ekeler has caught the ball well, but he could have been catching the ball as a 1b back instead of a primary ball carrier.  

The chargers had 104 rushing first downs last year. They had 26 through the first 5 weeks (pro football reference isn't updated for week 6 yet).  They've converted first downs through the air at a good rate but those are inherently riskier passes when you're not running well. Rivers had 13 turnovers last year.  He has 8 already this year. 

Hunter Henry and Williams being hurt impacted the offense. Gordon being out and now rusty is hurting the offense more. 

Like the 2018 Steelers with Bell, the Chargers badly miscalculated by falling to bring in their most important offensive player and wasted a year of a dwindling championship window.  They will have slightly more cap space to sign players for next year when it's too late but 2019 was a rare opportunity at a division title with a vulnerable mahomes chiefs team losing a couple games already. 

All of this is spot on.

add losing the starting center, (not a JAG, but one of the better centers in the NFL IMO) - I think id read that they were without 5 pro-bowl players on SNF? 

chargers had a rookie guard making his first start 

Gordon’s holdout didn’t do that. 

The OL is a mess. Several either playing out of their natural position or inexperienced in general. 

after week 5’s game they said they had to simplify the offense to run anything. So it’s hard to crap on coaching too badly - they got dealt a bad hand.  Injuries are the great equalizer in the NFL. 

as a Niner fan I’ll say I’m shocked they won this week - several OL & their all pro FB out, it took a little luck & a lot of defense, but among my circle of friends I’d predicted their first loss for largely the same reasons the Chargers looked so bad. 

losing Pouncey isn’t just losing a player though - dude was the heart of that offensive line. Arguably the leader of that offense next to Rivers. That’s a brutal loss.

hard to imagine the Chargers winning without him, and in context of this topic, hard to imagine a successful running game behind a make-shift line for either back. 

I agree Gordon’s holdout was unsuccessful - but everyone agreed it was dumb from the start since he lacked leverage. All he did was showed the Chargers that Eck could handle a larger role.  

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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Evan Silva‏Verified account @evansilva

Since ending his holdout, 15 of #Chargers RB Melvin Gordon’s 20 carries have gained 3 yards or less (75%).

8 of his 11 targets have gained 3 yards to less (73%).

All told, plays intended for Melvin Gordon have averaged 2.77 yards.

Just 1 of them (3%) has gained a first down.

9:32 AM - 14 Oct 2019

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50 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Evan Silva‏Verified account @evansilva

Since ending his holdout, 15 of #Chargers RB Melvin Gordon’s 20 carries have gained 3 yards or less (75%).

8 of his 11 targets have gained 3 yards to less (73%).

All told, plays intended for Melvin Gordon have averaged 2.77 yards.

Just 1 of them (3%) has gained a first down.

9:32 AM - 14 Oct 2019

It’s a shame he decided to hold out. He kind of did this to himself. He took a big step and made real progress last year, but now it’s like he’s starting over. These numbers read like his rookie season.

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2 hours ago, bostonfred said:

The Chargers are 2-4 because they didn't pay Gordon.

It's shocking to me that anyone honestly believes this. 

Can you unpack it for me? Are you saying that they would have beat DET and HOU if they would have had Gordon? HOU is just a better team, and it's not really close so if you are saying Gordon would have made the difference in that game I think your dead wrong. DET? Well, Ekeler had 133 yards from scrimmage and a TD so I don't think the RB position is the reason they lost that game either.

It's almost like some people are watching a completely different team. They are 0-2 since Gordon came back(keep in mind he wants to be payed like a franchise RB). Ekeler is only averaging 3.8y/c?! Behind the same OL Gordon is averaging 2.5y/c. The chargers were 2-2 without Gordon, and now are 0-2 since he came back. So he WAS the missing piece all along..... WTF.

The crowd that said that the chargers are making a big mistake not caving to the demand of Gordon and his agent are just looking more silly each and every week. How can people possibly be doubling down on this?!

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1 hour ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Evan Silva‏Verified account @evansilva

Since ending his holdout, 15 of #Chargers RB Melvin Gordon’s 20 carries have gained 3 yards or less (75%).

8 of his 11 targets have gained 3 yards to less (73%).

All told, plays intended for Melvin Gordon have averaged 2.77 yards.

Just 1 of them (3%) has gained a first down.

9:32 AM - 14 Oct 2019

Seems to me that production is closer to a top 50 RB in the NFL than it is to a top 5 RB. And people are STILL saying that the chargers should have given him the money he was asking for. I said before the season began that he was getting overpaid at $5mil. At the end of the day telesco was incredibly lucky Gordon and his agent turned up his nose at ~10mil/season. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

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3 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

All of this is spot on.

add losing the starting center, (not a JAG, but one of the better centers in the NFL IMO) - I think id read that they were without 5 pro-bowl players on SNF? 

chargers had a rookie guard making his first start 

Gordon’s holdout didn’t do that. 

The OL is a mess. Several either playing out of their natural position or inexperienced in general. 

after week 5’s game they said they had to simplify the offense to run anything. So it’s hard to crap on coaching too badly - they got dealt a bad hand.  Injuries are the great equalizer in the NFL. 

as a Niner fan I’ll say I’m shocked they won this week - several OL & their all pro FB out, it took a little luck & a lot of defense, but among my circle of friends I’d predicted their first loss for largely the same reasons the Chargers looked so bad. 

losing Pouncey isn’t just losing a player though - dude was the heart of that offensive line. Arguably the leader of that offense next to Rivers. That’s a brutal loss.

hard to imagine the Chargers winning without him, and in context of this topic, hard to imagine a successful running game behind a male-shift line for either back. 

I agree Gordon’s holdout was unsuccessful - but everyone agreed it was dumb from the start since he lacked leverage. All he did was showed the Chargers that Eck could handle a larger role.  

This. Gordon isn't playing in a vacuum. His holdout didn't work to his advantage, but it failed "Financially", not "Physically. The team around him isn't the same team that was on the field last year due in large part to injury.  Hard to see it fully rebounding due to OTHER PEOPLE's injuries. That isn't on Gordon. His scene changed.

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28 minutes ago, BoltBacker said:

It's shocking to me that anyone honestly believes this. 

Can you unpack it for me? Are you saying that they would have beat DET and HOU if they would have had Gordon? HOU is just a better team, and it's not really close so if you are saying Gordon would have made the difference in that game I think your dead wrong. DET? Well, Ekeler had 133 yards from scrimmage and a TD so I don't think the RB position is the reason they lost that game either.

It's almost like some people are watching a completely different team. They are 0-2 since Gordon came back(keep in mind he wants to be payed like a franchise RB). Ekeler is only averaging 3.8y/c?! Behind the same OL Gordon is averaging 2.5y/c. The chargers were 2-2 without Gordon, and now are 0-2 since he came back. So he WAS the missing piece all along..... WTF.

The crowd that said that the chargers are making a big mistake not caving to the demand of Gordon and his agent are just looking more silly each and every week. How can people possibly be doubling down on this?!

Maybe the two fumbles on the goal line has something to do with it. Ekeler should stop eating popcorn pregame.

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26 minutes ago, BoltBacker said:

Seems to me that production is closer to a top 50 RB in the NFL than it is to a top 5 RB. And people are STILL saying that the chargers should have given him the money he was asking for. I said before the season began that he was getting overpaid at $5mil. At the end of the day telesco was incredibly lucky Gordon and his agent turned up his nose at ~10mil/season. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

So based on two rusty games for Gordon you are willing to make this assumption. Lol.

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25 minutes ago, BoltBacker said:

Are you saying that they would have beat DET and HOU if they would have had Gordon?

Well, the chargers lost 13 to 10, and ekeler fumbled on the 1 yard line, but he had a good fantasy football performance so it can't be his fault.  

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201909150det.htm#all_pbp

Look at the play by play.  

The chargers had ten possessions.

5 of them ended on the set of downs that included a run of two or fewer yards and a failed first down. For example, a 2 yard run on 1st and 10, followed by two incomplete passes, or a zero yard run on 2nd and 10 followed by an incomplete pass). The worst was justin Jackson running for a 4 yard loss on first down, incomplete pass by rivers on 2nd, and an interception by rivers on third.  

The sixth ended with an ekeler fumble on the 1.

It's not that Gordon never runs for no gain or 2 yards. Every running back does. But another thing that sucks is that all of the drives im talking about ended with incomplete passes. Once the chargers ran it on first or second down and failed to get 3 plus yards, they literally never tried a second run to set up an easier third down.  

Rivers attempted 36 passes.  15 of them were on 2nd and 8 or longer,  or third and 8 or longer. 

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No Okung, no Pouncey - if i could get out of this backfield I would.   5th round Melvin Gordon not looking so good, wish I had taken Mark Ingram.

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What's the timetable injury status for Okung and Pouncey?  I think those are highly significant issues for the Chargers.

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2 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

Can you unpack it for me? Are you saying that they would have beat DET and HOU if they would have had Gordon? HOU is just a better team, and it's not really close so if you are saying Gordon would have made the difference in that game I think your dead wrong.

As for the Texans, the chargers led that game 17 to 7 at halftime. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201909220sdg.htm

What do winning teams do in the second half when they have a two score lead?

I doubt you said "start their first drive of the second half with a run for minus four and go 3 and out", but that's what the chargers did.

TheTexans scored and the chargers next drive took about six minutes off the clock but didn't score. The next drive ended when ekeler ran for 1 yard on first and 10 and rivers passed twice.  And the one after that ended when watt failed to convert a 3rd and 1. 

Considering they lost by 7, and ekeler only had 9 rushes, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to suggest they would have had a better chance if Gordon had played. 

 

Edited by bostonfred
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I think it's also pretty obvious that Gordon would be playing better right now if he'd gone to training camp and been part of the team.  Does that mean they'd be 6-0 with him?  There's no way to say either way.

But there's no question in my mind they'd be better than 2-4, and I'd literally have bet money on it.  They'd probably be 4-2 or better right now.  And with the chiefs losing twice already that means they'd be at the top of their division.

Failing to sign Gordon saved them money but cost them a year of a dwindling window.  

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Here are some facts about Melvin Gordon's career:

  1. He has played 59 career games. He averaged 4+ ypc in just 28 of them (47%).
  2. He has 943 career rushing attempts. Just 365 of them (39%) have gained 4 or more yards.
  3. Gordon's 1 season with a good ypc was 2018. He averaged 5.9 ypc on 64 carries running outside Okung in 2018 and 4.1 ypc on his other 137 carries. Okung is currently out and might not play a snap this season, maybe never again.
  4. Since Gordon returned from his second injury last season, he has played in 6 games. In those games, he has 68 rushing attempts for 187 rushing yards (2.75 ypc) and 15 receptions for 88 yards (5.9 ypr).
  5. In 2018-2019, the Chargers are 6-2 without Gordon and 9-7 with him.

IMO anyone who thinks the problem with the Chargers record this season is that they didn't sign Gordon and get him into camp and the full regular season probably doesn't follow the Chargers and thus probably has an uninformed perspective on the matter.

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5 hours ago, bolldpt said:

What's the timetable injury status for Okung and Pouncey?  I think those are highly significant issues for the Chargers.

Pouncey is out for the season. Okung's status is not known. In theory, he could return after week 7, but he is out due to a pulmonary embolism. That likely means he is on blood thinners, which makes it likely he will not play at all this season.

The Chargers probably have the worst OL in the NFL at this point.

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18 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

The Chargers probably have the worst OL in the NFL at this point.

I think we see eye to eye on pretty much all Chargers related things, but don't you dare take that title from Miami. 

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