What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

A week later, I am still crushed. The perspective of a mixed-race marriage and a loss of trust (1 Viewer)

fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Yup, I think it would be great if this were a thread where we could try to reach out and share what's happening in our bubbles.  It's tough with all the trolls though.
Click to expand...
If it had started with something in tone  like "Guys, help me reconcile this..." rather than "My friend turned out to be a pod person and now I fear for my children" it would have helped.

 
chet said:
Koya--Consider this hypothetical.  A longtime family friend ends his friendship with your wife because she voted for Hillary.  He lost a son in Iraq and considers Hillary's actions to be treason.  He thinks that anyone who supports Hillary is also betraying the country that his son died protecting.
Click to expand...
There are a lot of reasons to reject Hillary.  But, to make the leap and say therefore Trump is nuttery.  At least 40% who voted for him in the Republican primary subscribed to the hate-filled rhetoric.  Let's not pass this off as just a "lesser of two evils" selection, which is still incomprehensible.  No, there are a lot of awful people who came out of the woodwork this year, emboldened by a racist (and sexist and homophobic) voice who could amplify their own views.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I don't know how to convey how incredibly common Koya's feelings are in the liberal bubble.  Koya's post could have been written by virtually everyone I know. 

I think it's important for those of you who live in the conservative bubble, or who don't pay attention to politics, to understand this isn't just one nutty guy going overboard. 
Click to expand...
My experience is that it is specifically liberal people of color, women, and LGBTQ who are taking it very hard.  Hard to blame them given the rhetoric coming out of the alt-right. 

 
Koya said:
No. I waited to let the initial shock and emotion pass.  And was not intending on posting this - here and certainly in a very public space on facebook - until I realized this morning that I literally could not feel comfortable letting my children (that wife and I plan on having) having as their godparents two friends I care about dearly, one of whom I've known for over 30 years.  

I realized that my mixed-race children don't deserve to be raised in a household where, as bad a choice as Hillary may have been, they chose someone who not only stands ideologically opposed to what we believe in, but who support someone who is harming those of minority decent across the nation.  Not sure what crystalized that for me... because it's not political.  I'd have no problem with any number of Romney, Bush etc supporters caring for my children, even if we share different viewpoints on certain matters.  That's political discourse and policy.

In this case, it's a clear white-nationalist bent.  And perhaps that was the deciding factor on why I posted it today. Because Bannon? Really? You are going to be the president for "everyone" and bring the lead cheerleader for the alt-right, white-nationalist movement as your key advisor?

And then it dawned on me just what this election meant.  That I can't, by definition, look at my friends like that the same way.  As the child of a Holocaust survivor, I don't take this #### lightly.  While I don't believe these people are actively racist (that's not to say they are not, at all, but then again, to a degree we all are), they certainly care so little about people such as my wife and I, and our children, that they'd elect someone who has come out very clearly for white-nationalism and against all those who stand in the way.  

Hope that explains the timing. It's been bottled up inside and I didn't want to further alienate anyone and wanted to move forward.  But I realized that forward can never again be in the direction we once thought it was.
Click to expand...
The bolded is your fault, not theirs. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Also, I should add that even though Donald Trump is uniquely awful, that's only part of the reason in liberal circles for the extreme reaction to the results.   If Trump had been a more typical Republican, I think people would still be freaking out because: 1) the Republicans basically stole the Supreme Court and paid no political price; and 2) the result was so shocking and unexpected due to the polls. 

 
cobalt_27 said:
See, this is just patently false.  By definition, if you support Trump, you support racism.  You may not think so, but you do.  At minimum, on an implicit level, it's ok with you.
Click to expand...
He's not my guy but no they don't. What if you care about a conservative Supreme Court?  Or repealing Obamacare?  You're getting neither by voting for Clinton. But it doesn't mean you support 100% of trump either. Just like those voting for Clinton don't necessarily support corruption, money laundering, and reckless handling of classified materials. There's gray area.  

 
jomar said:
here's the issue for many:  I was a Bernie supporter.  Trump could have adopted every one of Bernie's stances and he still wouldn't have got my vote.  Bernie wouldn't have gotten my vote if he did and said the things Trump said.  Issues aside, I could never vote for or support a racist/sexist/bigot.  those are disqualifying traits for many people.  for others, not so much it seems.  that can be disheartening
Click to expand...
Don't disagree. I disagree with painting everyone that voted for him as a racist. 

 
cobalt_27 said:
See, this is just patently false. By definition, if you support Trump, you support racism. You may not think so, but you do. At minimum, on an implicit level, it's ok with you.
Click to expand...
This is true but I think it's more important to understand why this is the case.

It's common knowledge now that Trump flipped counties in the Rust Belt that Obama had previously won. A lot of these people are obviously white and there's essentially no way they would have voted for Obama in 08/12 if they were full blown racists.

From the perspective of these people, their economic well-being superseded all else. Can you truly blame them? Let's say you're poor as #### and your life is miserable. When presented with the choice between a candidate running a tone deaf campaign (ImWithHer :lol: ), who pushed trade agreements that decimated your town and isn't really trying to court you anymore or a loud mouthed bigot who is promising to bring back your jobs even if it isn't even remotely feasible, who do you go with? Even if you find the latter candidate to be reprehensible, where does that get you?

On the surface, I actually think the choice was easy and I place most of the blame on Clinton. I know it's hindsight but I still can't get over how awful of a campaign she ran.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
He's not my guy but no they don't. What if you care about a conservative Supreme Court?  Or repealing Obamacare?  You're getting neither by voting for Clinton. But it doesn't mean you support 100% of trump either. Just like those voting for Clinton don't necessarily support corruption, money laundering, and reckless handling of classified materials. There's gray area.  
Click to expand...
No, you just decided that racism, xenophobia and homophobia are less important than whatever single issue you're smitten with.

 
cobalt_27 said:
See, this is just patently false.  By definition, if you support Trump, you support racism.  You may not think so, but you do.  At minimum, on an implicit level, it's ok with you.
Click to expand...
Lolololol yeah no not necessarily. I mean what the #### kind of #### logic is this?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Capella said:
If you were gay, Muslim or Mexican I bet you would feel different. 
Click to expand...
Well, honestly to be fair I am not sure and you may be correct. I am in an inter-racial marriage (but she is not of any racial group that is really under "attack").

I do have a cousin who married a Muslim, and I do like the guy a lot, and they have four daughters so maybe there could be some concern there (but honestly that would likely exist with or without Trump given the climate of the world at the present time). As far as Mexicans, he has already backed off from some of that campaign rhetoric, and as of now he is only speaking of deporting any undocumented Mexican that is charged with a crime. I doubt anyone has much issue with that.

Heck, I don't like the man for many reasons - but as some one that lives in the NYC metro area I do know he's a NY liberal at heart and as an American I know the limited powers of the presidency and trust the system to work the way it should. I seriously don't think Koya needs to worry as much as he is. I hope I am right. 

 
SameSongNDance said:
This is true but I think it's more important to understand why this is the case.

It's common knowledge now that Trump flipped counties in the Rust Belt that Obama had previously won. A lot of these people are obviously white and there's essentially no way they would have voted for Obama in 08/12 if they were full blown racists.

From the perspective of these people, their economic well-being superseded all else. Can you truly blame them? Let's say you're poor as #### and your life is miserable. When presented with the choice between a candidate running a tone deaf campaign (ImWithHer :lol: ), who pushed trade agreements that decimated your town and isn't really trying to court you anymore or a loud mouthed bigot who is promising to bring back your jobs even if it isn't even remotely feasible, who do you go with? Even if you find the latter candidate to be reprehensible, where does that get you?

On the surface, I actually think the choice was easy and I place most of the blame on Clinton. I know it's hindsight but I still can't get over how awful of a campaign she ran.
Click to expand...
You understand Trump won't actually help those people, right? His tax cuts won't help them. Even if their income is tied to coal and other non-sustanable energies, they are choosing their personal well being over the well being of this earth. 

No matter how you cut it, these people are ignorant, uneducated and date I say "Morons" of the highest degree.

I don't care if they voted Obama, Hittler or Castro. They are not intelligent.

 
From December 26, 2015, Koya writes:
 

I can't believe I'd EVER vote for Hillary. In this State or any other election.

But this is as no brainer as it comes. The flat irresponsibility of Trump makes that clear as day. Unless you are so blinded by ideology or indeed are a flat out nationalist (with all the negative connotations).

Then again, we've seen worse people get more support by larger percentages as Trump. Curious who ever admitted to those historic "blunders"
Click to expand...
So...now Trump supporters are racists that he cannot associate with and apparently even though there were worse people who got more support than Trump in the past...he had no problem keeping those friendships/relationships.

On October 8, Koya wrote:

Trust me, if Trump wins, eating crow will be about the 119th worst thing we will have to deal with.
Click to expand...
So, true. My drowning in dem salty tears is a legitimate fear right now.

 

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I agree that Trump himself probably isn't that conservative, but I'm worried he's just going to get played by all the people he's surrounding himself with.
Click to expand...
We'll find out.  In his life so far he's the guy who does the playing, not the guy who gets played. He's been completely underestimated by everyone in politics since day one all the way up to about 8:30pm last Tuesday night. The guy just moved mountains and won the presidency basically all by himself and with no backing. What else does he have to do for people to take him seriously?

 
Willie Neslon said:
We'll find out.  In his life so far he's the guy who does the playing, not the guy who gets played. He's been completely underestimated by everyone in politics since day one all the way up to about 8:30pm last Tuesday night. The guy just moved mountains and won the presidency basically all by himself and with no backing. What else does he have to do for people to take him seriously?
Click to expand...
I don't know, stop acting like a doofus?

 
  • Smile
Reactions: Ned
The thing that amazes me about all of what has happened here is that there are people who actively and honestly defend Trump.  I voted Hillary, but I didn't like it.  Had Hillary won, I wouldn't defend the vote, I wouldn't try to convince you she wasn't flawed, isn't corrupt, or  wasn't someone who typifies what is wrong in our political system.  I would simply defend the fact that when it came to policy, to issues like the Supreme Court, that I felt her agenda lined up with mine, and she was the only choice that did.  I accepted that the candidate that I was voting for was not someone I liked, but I vote for policy, not the person.

Trump supporters seem more than willing to look past and ignore what an awful human being he appears to be.  You willingly disregard the people he has hurt, offended, ripped off, and ruined.  If a Trump voter tells me that they voted for him because they favor conservative policy, they wanted a conservative SC justice, or just vehemently opposed Hillary, I might not agree, but I can respect it.  To defend him though?  To try to rationalize the things he's said, the things he's done over the years, the reprehensible behavior.... that I just cannot fathom.  Those are the people I am steadily losing respect for, and the ones who have left me most disappointed.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
I've posted my thoughts. Your problem, and many others here, is you can't stop assigning thoughts to people they don't have.  Then you guys question people's intelligence when they stop engaging you. Carry on. 
Click to expand...
You literally agreed with me.

Ramblin Wreck said:
He's not my guy but no they don't. What if you care about a conservative Supreme Court?  Or repealing Obamacare?  You're getting neither by voting for Clinton. But it doesn't mean you support 100% of trump either. Just like those voting for Clinton don't necessarily support corruption, money laundering, and reckless handling of classified materials. There's gray area.  
Click to expand...
You said people decided that repealing Obama care or getting a more conservative Supreme Court outweighed the bevy of negatives associated with Trump.

YOU literally acknowledged that these people decided those single issues were more important than other peoples social liberties, or empowering a racist, homophobic, xenophobic misogynist. 

Your thoughts are that people decided his flaws didn't matter when compared to other issues. That in and of itself is telling about the character of the voters.

I'm personally not surprised you don't see it, but the fact you can accuse me of assigning thoughts to people they don't have, when I'm echoing your own words is beyond delicious.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
If you were considering entrusting your children to these friends prior to the election you must have known and trusted them enough to not think they were "ok with bigotry and hate". I know people who voted both ways (and personally I voted for Johnson) and I think of them the same way as I thought of them before. I hope that after maybe a little more time has passed that you reassess your stance here. People have many different reasons for voting the way that they do. 
Click to expand...
:goodposting:  You were considering these people before their support of Trump and now because of who they voted for you disqualify them? That doesn't add up to me -  I assume you wouldn't have felt they were good candidates before the election if they showed any signs of racism.  Therefore it seems you are assigning the racist label to all Trump supporters. And there is no way to find common ground with people if you take such a superficial view of their reasons for voting.

 
The vast majority of voters in the state of Louisiana preferred Donald Trump. Yet only 3% of them voted for David Duke, running for Senator. 

This suggests to me that most people who voted for Trump are not racists and reject racism. 

 
Harry Manback said:
No, you just decided that racism, xenophobia and homophobia are less important than whatever single issue you're smitten with.
Click to expand...
14% of Gays voted Trump

8% of blacks voted Trump

29% of the Hispanic voted Trump

Its fine to demand answers from the supposed white hetero, racist, xenophobic and homophobic crowd, but what do you make of these voters? 

 
Koya said:
No. I waited to let the initial shock and emotion pass.  And was not intending on posting this - here and certainly in a very public space on facebook - until I realized this morning that I literally could not feel comfortable letting my children (that wife and I plan on having) having as their godparents two friends I care about dearly, one of whom I've known for over 30 years.  

I realized that my mixed-race children don't deserve to be raised in a household where, as bad a choice as Hillary may have been, they chose someone who not only stands ideologically opposed to what we believe in, but who support someone who is harming those of minority decent across the nation.  Not sure what crystalized that for me... because it's not political.  I'd have no problem with any number of Romney, Bush etc supporters caring for my children, even if we share different viewpoints on certain matters.  That's political discourse and policy.

In this case, it's a clear white-nationalist bent.  And perhaps that was the deciding factor on why I posted it today. Because Bannon? Really? You are going to be the president for "everyone" and bring the lead cheerleader for the alt-right, white-nationalist movement as your key advisor?

And then it dawned on me just what this election meant.  That I can't, by definition, look at my friends like that the same way.  As the child of a Holocaust survivor, I don't take this #### lightly.  While I don't believe these people are actively racist (that's not to say they are not, at all, but then again, to a degree we all are), they certainly care so little about people such as my wife and I, and our children, that they'd elect someone who has come out very clearly for white-nationalism and against all those who stand in the way.  

Hope that explains the timing. It's been bottled up inside and I didn't want to further alienate anyone and wanted to move forward.  But I realized that forward can never again be in the direction we once thought it was.
Click to expand...
Neither do I.

Both my mother and fathers parents were Auschwitz and Buckenwald surviors. My last name is German, my grandfather on my father side had a very successful chocolate factory in Germany before Hitler and the Third Reich took it all away and murdered his wife and 2 sons. My Grandfather David then met my grandmother Maria (whose previous husband was a very successful and talented soccer player for Poland was murdered along with her 2 children as well) at a liberation camp after the war. But before that he was in a work camp for many years before being trained to Auschwitz to work. He was strong and smart and knew how to survive. If you were able to remain strong and work you lived. But inevitably all of them were going to be gassed, burned or shot.

The point is I know this well. I spoke for hours upon hours with my grandfather (taped interviews with him as well on cassette tapes for 8th grade US history) over the years about the entire war and what transpired.

I am not nearly as paranoid or afraid as some are about President Elect Trump. I think the enigma of seeing how some of his supporters are of a racist ilk has people over reacting.

While I am watching and listening carefully to everything he will say and ultimately the actions he takes, I think the media as severely misguided Americans and painted a very broad brush about President elect Trump and what he stands for.

I did not vote for Trump.

But until proven otherwise I stand behind our elected president for good and bad.

I supported Obama despite not voting for him for a second term. I thought his last 4 years were shameful in many ways that I don't want to even get into (not much about talking politics to be honest).  This massive overreaction by some with all the protests and fodder tells me how manipulated many have become in this nation, by social media and a highly biased opinion based news media (both sides...not just the left slant but also the extreme right wingers too).

Being a moderate republican I am giving President Elect Trump an opportunity to show us what he can do. I trust the fact people around him will advise him properly.

I don't see this white supremacist "take back the country" slant ever coming to fruition. The moment we see our civil liberties being taken away is when you should get nervous. The moment you see a military state taking effect the likes of the SS and Gestapo had...yeah get nervous and revolt or flee.

But this is America.......this is our country. We are having a peaceful transfer of power taking place yet some people are simply acting like insane children.

I am sorry Koya.....sorry you are feeling this way. I think you need to relax, enjoy your family and live. Things are going to be fine man. Really...it's going to be OK.

Serious question.....what do you think is really going to happen over the next 4 years? A return to the KKK south across the entire nation? Come on people. Gotta stop this nonsense.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I didn't read four more pages of FFA crap but wanted to add my perspective as a mixed race person who has raised mixed race children.  Parents don't get to control the world of their children.  You can love and nurture them, provide for them, offer them safety but once they walk out the door, you lose control.  Your influence diminishes from total when they're babies to very little when they're grown.  You can only raise them to be strong, self confident and comfortable in their skin.  You're not alone on this mission:  family, friends, teachers, coaches, Girl Scout leaders, et. al. all play a role.  I hate that "it takes a village" line but it's true to an extent.

Kids are resilient and that's a good thing because regardless of race, they have to put up with a lot of kid and adolescent #### that we all went through.  Mixed race kids have it different but you have to help them prepare for that. 

I don't think white people understand how much black people view the Trump election purely through the prism of race.  I've been married to Mrs. Eephus since the Reagan administration.  She's never held any illusions about the state of racial relations in the country but she could see that in the long view, things were generally improving.  She's not sure anymore and has been very vocal about it.  My kids have had a President who looks like them for a good portion of their life.  We knew that wasn't going to continue but they're shocked by the change.  I don't think there are 50 million racists in this country but Trump's statements on race were such a dealbreaker for my family that they couldn't get past that.  I think Trump voters made their decisions for other reasons but I haven't been able to convince my wife of this.

 
Harry Manback said:
You understand Trump won't actually help those people, right? His tax cuts won't help them. Even if their income is tied to coal and other non-sustanable energies, they are choosing their personal well being over the well being of this earth.

No matter how you cut it, these people are ignorant, uneducated and date I say "Morons" of the highest degree.

I don't care if they voted Obama, Hittler or Castro. They are not intelligent.
Click to expand...
No #### but that's not the point, the vast majority of these people aren't policy wonks and no one should expect them to be. I'm saying from what I can expect the average voter to glean from both campaigns, Trump's was by far more effective and not due to bigotry - in fact it was effective despite of the bigotry. Clinton just ran a ####ty, tone deaf campaign and she is to blame. 

 
Harry Manback said:
No, you just decided that racism, xenophobia and homophobia are less important than whatever single issue you're smitten with.
Click to expand...
Everything always takes a backseat to the economy.

I don't think Trump is racist or homophobic. He had campaign positions, mostly around immigration, that could be considered xenophobic.  It's closely tied to stricter immigration policy though.  I'm willing to wait and see where he draws the line.

 
Harry Manback said:
You understand Trump won't actually help those people, right? His tax cuts won't help them. Even if their income is tied to coal and other non-sustanable energies, they are choosing their personal well being over the well being of this earth. 

No matter how you cut it, these people are ignorant, uneducated and date I say "Morons" of the highest degree.

I don't care if they voted Obama, Hittler or Castro. They are not intelligent.
Click to expand...
How have the democrats done for the people in Detroit, Baltimore and other inner cities? Are you gonna insult their intelligence them for voting D as well?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dr. Octopus said:
Well, honestly to be fair I am not sure and you may be correct. I am in an inter-racial marriage (but she is not of any racial group that is really under "attack").

I do have a cousin who married a Muslim, and I do like the guy a lot, and they have four daughters so maybe there could be some concern there (but honestly that would likely exist with or without Trump given the climate of the world at the present time). As far as Mexicans, he has already backed off from some of that campaign rhetoric, and as of now he is only speaking of deporting any undocumented Mexican that is charged with a crime. I doubt anyone has much issue with that.

Heck, I don't like the man for many reasons - but as some one that lives in the NYC metro area I do know he's a NY liberal at heart and as an American I know the limited powers of the presidency and trust the system to work the way it should. I seriously don't think Koya needs to worry as much as he is. I hope I am right. 
Click to expand...
This is a separate point from the concerns Koya is expressing, but anyone taking solace in the bolded is making a mistake IMO. 

I think there is a very good reason that virtually every living person on both sides of the aisle with a firm grasp on what a president actually does- former presidents, chiefs of staff, Secretaries of State and Defense, national security advisers, etc- opposes Trump, or at a minimum is unwilling to endorse him despite being Republicans. 

Both of George W Bush's chiefs of staff were strongly opposed to a Trump presidency. Take a step back and think about how ####ed up that is for a second.  The four living Republicans who know more than anyone what a president actually does (Bush I, Bush II, Andrew Card, Josh Bolten) all opposed their own party's nominee. Two of Bush I's former chiefs of staff are kinda "meh," on him, as is Cheney- that's the closest anyone who truly understands the presidency has come to endorsing Trump [insert Dan Quayle joke here].

Even if Trump was a model of racial, ethnic, religious and gender equality there would still be reason for serious concern about his presidency above and beyond the normal sour grapes stuff.

ETA:  Here's an example I've used before.  Trump said during the campaign that he wouldn't necessarily accept the results of the election.  No harm no foul in 2016.  But what happens if President Trump loses the 2020 election and won't accept the results because he claims it was "rigged" or whatever?  There is no reason to believe that is a far-fetched hypothetical.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet said:
The vast majority of voters in the state of Louisiana preferred Donald Trump. Yet only 3% of them voted for David Duke, running for Senator. 

This suggests to me that most people who voted for Trump are not racists and reject racism. 
Click to expand...
Not really.  One doesn't have to think very hard to come up with more plausible alternative hypotheses.  One can be a racist, support racists, and view fellow racists as unqualified, lacking in any other substantive ideas, outdated/boring, etc.

 
Cjw_55106 said:
14% of Gays voted Trump

8% of blacks voted Trump

29% of the Hispanic voted Trump

Its fine to demand answers from the supposed white hetero, racist, xenophobic and homophobic crowd, but what do you make of these voters? 
Click to expand...
Blacks and hispanics can be racist and sexist too.  The concept of internalized racism being a plausible explanation for this.

 
McGarnicle said:
I do think what we're seeing now is a release of a lot of pent-up emotion. It was a long, drawn out, contentious, hateful and soul-crushing election cycle and now it's finally over. The happy racists are feeling empowered to say racist things, and the ignorant trolls love to gloat. 8 years ago there was a lot of emotion too, obviously of a much different tone and content, but some of it was pretty ridiculous too. Then eventually we all realized nothing really changed, we still have to get up in the morning and go to work. Remember when Obama was going to completely transform Washington? 8 years later, half the electorate is as fed up as ever and willing to vote for an insane baby, because this time dammit, things really need to change. It ain't gonna change. Politics just sucks and it gets more depressing the more you follow it. Life's too short. I wish I could redo the last 18 months and pay zero attention to any of this.
Click to expand...
This...no matter what side you're on.  A lot of the Trump votes were because he wasn't a lifetime politician corrupted by the system.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
I just want to offer one small piece of unasked for advice.

The Left REALLY needs to start picking their spots when using the term "hate".

You sound like the weirdos shouting "Herbert" in that trippy Star Trek episode Way to Eden.
Click to expand...
If you cry wolf too many times, people stop caring.

People have stopped caring.

 
SameSongNDance said:
No #### but that's not the point, the vast majority of these people aren't policy wonks and no one should expect them to be. I'm saying from what I can expect the average voter to glean from both campaigns, Trump's was by far more effective and not due to bigotry - in fact it was effective despite of the bigotry. Clinton just ran a ####ty, tone deaf campaign and she is to blame. 
Click to expand...
You won't see any disagreement from me there. Clinton botched it bigly.

I just can't believe people would look at the two and think Clinton would hurt us as a nation worse.

 
cobalt_27 said:
Not really.  One doesn't have to think very hard to come up with more plausible alternative hypotheses.  One can be a racist, support racists, and view fellow racists as unqualified, lacking in any other substantive ideas, outdated/boring, etc.
Click to expand...
So from yout POV, these 97 percent are racist for voting for Trump, but found David Duke boring :lol:

 
timschochet said:
Not gonna lie, I was as devastated as Koya, still am. 

But- I look at the Trump supporters in this forum, most of them: SIDA, RBM, Loan Sharks, Court Jester, etc- and they're not racists, and they're not fascists. We disagree on a lot of issues but these are good dudes who love America as much as I do, and I truly believe that if Trump ever tried to do anything that was really racist or bigoted or a threat to American liberty, (I'm not talking about questionable appointments now, I'm talking about laws that actually affect people) these folks would turn against him in a heartbeat. I have no doubt of that, and I think they're representative of most people who voted for Trump. 

There are others, however, who truly are racist and they supported Trump for racist reasons- but they're a small minority here and elsewhere. 
Click to expand...
Great post Tim and spot on.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Anarchy99
At a loss for words . . . the vacation that never happened (apparently)
2
Replies
77
Views
2K
ghostguy123
ghostguy123
S
Am I (we) the problem (AITA) - advice from the collective wisdom of the FFA
2 3
Replies
129
Views
3K
GroveDiesel
GroveDiesel
Nick Vermeil
DST, No not Defense and Speacial Team, Delaware Statutory Trust
Replies
0
Views
113
Nick Vermeil
Nick Vermeil

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top