Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
Mike Davis a healthy scratch
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RB David Montgomery, DET (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
This isn’t that far off. I love his agility and hard ### running style, but he’s seems like just a grinder to me.
Football Jones
Footballguy
I never got a solid feel for Montgomery (so I was essentially neutral on him), but my fear is his calling card is breaking tackles & that's a tough go in the NFL.SayWhat? said:
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Overreactions abound. People need to remember that he's a rookie and his offense hasn't been good has been straight up bad thus far. The important thing is that his role is growing. His snap count has steadily improved: 38%->44%->67%-69%. The common narrative before the season was that Cohen was going to limit him and Mike Davis wasn't going to fade away. Well, Cohen has played more in the slot than he has at RB and Mike Davis played 2% of the snaps in week 3 and was inactive week 4. As far as competition goes, he's looking rosier than anyone could've expected. As far as offense goes, it's worse than anyone expected:
For some reason the team abandoned the run in week 1 and they've played two tough defenses in the past three matchups. Chicago ranks 31st in the league in yards per pass attempt with 5.8 (last season they ranked 16th with 7.3). That's not going to make Montgomery's job any easier, but hopefully they can regain last year's mediocrity at some point.
They play Oakland in week 5. A middle of the pack run D, probably the weakest defense they've faced this season. I honestly don't know which QB I'm rooting for between Daniel and Trubisky, but I'm leaning towards Daniel.
For some reason the team abandoned the run in week 1 and they've played two tough defenses in the past three matchups. Chicago ranks 31st in the league in yards per pass attempt with 5.8 (last season they ranked 16th with 7.3). That's not going to make Montgomery's job any easier, but hopefully they can regain last year's mediocrity at some point.
They play Oakland in week 5. A middle of the pack run D, probably the weakest defense they've faced this season. I honestly don't know which QB I'm rooting for between Daniel and Trubisky, but I'm leaning towards Daniel.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I feel like some of you are not actually watching the game and are just looking at stats. The run blocking has been terrible and the play almost as bad. The bulk of his carries the last two games have come at the end of the game when they are eating up clock and he's running into a stacked box. Not many RBs are going to gain much in that situation. I still tons of talent with him and know that he's created the majority of those yards on his own because the OL was not creating any holes.
My problem is that at no point, regardless of how the play appears to be developing, does it ever feel like he might break a big chunk play. That’s fine and all, but he’s going to be the definition of a guy that needs above average volume to produce viable fantasy stats IMO.
This is a common argument, but it seems pretty silly to me. Not everybody can be Barkley or Chubb. Last season David Johnson had 2 rushes over 20 yards and he only had 6 in his best (2016) season. Henry had 4. Alvin Kamara had only one!! Zeke was 2nd in the league with 11, but at 304 carries, that means he was only breaking a 20+ yard run once every 28 carries. Long runs account for a very small portion of most players' stats. Hell, Leveon Bell only had 3 carries over 20 yards (and 0 over 40) in 2017 and he had 1,291 yards rushing. Long runs are a common talking point, but a really weak one.
When defenses are playing as close to the LoS as teams are playing the Bears, you aren't going to get a lot of long runs. But that doesn't mean he can't average 4+ ypc if the offense ever gets going.
FWIW, Montgomery has 1 carry over 20 yards this year, which is more than Henry, Kerryon, Aaron Jones, DJ, Michel, Bell, etc...
Sir Psycho
Footballguy
This !There is a reason he breaks a lot of tackles... he has to. I’ll never understand the draw of RB’s to contact. It’s not just fans that think this way though, it’s coaches too. I know a guy like him isn’t built to be Jamaal Charles but let me go in that direction over the grinder every single day of the week.
flapgreen
Footballguy
simey
Footballguy
DeAngelo Williams did this a lot when he first started out in the NFL, but he figured things out in time.
fightingillini
Footballguy
Lot of RBs come into the NFL and learn the hard way that.....you can't outrun NFL defenses.....you can't dance behind the LOS and break it outside.
Montgomery IMO will learn that and improve. Pretty hard to be fantasy relevant with a 3.4 YPC and sharing the carries with Cohen and Davis.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Seriously, where were these holes that allowed him to just run north/south? I agree that sometimes he sits behind the line too long but he has nowhere to go. He runs similar to Leveon Bell, very patient waiting behind his blockers for a hole to open up. The problem is they haven't been opening up.
flapgreen
Footballguy
The OL has been a big issue with running the ball, but it falls equally on Montgomery. He's had some very poor runs and missed yards a lot as well.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I haven't noticed too many missed yards by him so far. There have been some but not many.
I would mostly agree. And the Leveon comp from a style standpoint is spot on. But I haven’t yet seen him create holes when they’re seemingly not there, which great RBs can do.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I've seen him gain positive yardage when nothing was there numerous times. It just goes unnoticed because it's only for a 2 or 3 yard gain. What some fail to notice is that he should've been tackled for a loss if not for what he made of it.
Agreed. I think he’s great at making 3 yard gains when nothing seems to be there. I notice that. What I’d like to see it a 15 yard gain when it seems only 3 are there.
flapgreen
Footballguy
I was going to point this out. I think he's bad but to be fair to him yesterday, he had a bunch of carries in the fourth quarter where they were just killing clock. He didn't need to get more than a yard or two a carry.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
This is where I'm at with this. I can't say he is being overly patient or too cautious or whatever but there is nothing there for him to run through. I've been seriously impressed that he has managed to get anything at all. He desperately needs the Bears passing game to be viable.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
barackdhouse
Footballguy
flapgreen
Footballguy
If you watch all of the Bears games closely, youll see it quite frequently. He just needs to adjust to the pro game more. P
I will reiterate my point above: the Bears have a paltry 5.8 yards per pass attempt. That is awful. It's actually even worse than it sounds. That's worse than all 32 teams last year... In fact, over the past FOUR seasons, only one team has averaged less than that over a single season, so if we lumped them in there, they'd rank 128th out of 129. When defenses are crowding the LoS because they know you aren't going to beat them through the air, the RB isn't going to be able to thrive. When Bell was in PIT, do you think he faced 8 in the box very often? Teams had to respect the pass. This talk of Montgomery needing to learn the pro game (not the person I'm replying to) is laughable. If he hadn't learned the pro game, their veteran offseason acquisition (Mike Davis) would not have been inactive week 4.fightingillini said:
That brings me to your last line. Is Montgomery sharing carries with Cohen and Davis? Montgomery has 58 carries and 12 targets through 4 games after a slow start (as mentioned his snaps have gone 38%->44%->67%-69%). Cohen has 13 carries and Mike Davis has 9. So Montgomery is getting 72.5% of the carries. In the last two games, he's got 8 targets to 9 for Cohen and zero for Davis. Truly, the only thing missing is a running lane. And I'm not going to put it on the OL. This is a talented bunch. The problem is that they've faced good defenses that aren't the least bit scared of the pass. I don't care how good your OL is, when you've got six guys blocking eight guys, you're going to lose no matter how good your OL is.
So this is on Nagy and Trubisky. Not Montgomery. Not the OL. Maybe Chase can strike even a modicum of fear into Oakland's defense in week 5... that's the only hope Montgomery has of seeing a running lane.
Well said. I couldn’t agree more. I think he has a nice game against the Raiders this weekend
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Exactly. I don't feel like I'm making excuses for him yet. Once I see him miss open holes then I will call him out on it but so far there is nothing there. I've been impressed with his ability to make something out of nothing on a lot of plays. Once the OL blocking improves we'll have a much better idea of what he is.barackdhouse said:
will be interesting to see how this weekend goes for David Montgomery. Right now of all backs, he is #16 in total touches so far this year, and that is with 7 touches week 1. I know it might be a weird London game but Oakland is in a rough spot here - Tyrell Williams missed today again, Josh Jacobs shouldn't do much against the run D, and the other only viable target will be Darren Waller and the Bears know that.
Montgomery is in line for ~20 carries and a few catches. Yes the Oakland Run D has actually been pretty good, and the Bears o-line is struggling in the run game, but the Oakland defense should be on the field a lot. Will be interesting to see what his final stat line is. Thinking 85-90 yards and a touchdown.
Montgomery is in line for ~20 carries and a few catches. Yes the Oakland Run D has actually been pretty good, and the Bears o-line is struggling in the run game, but the Oakland defense should be on the field a lot. Will be interesting to see what his final stat line is. Thinking 85-90 yards and a touchdown.
Dawg Pound 69
Footballguy
Isn't Kyle Long expected back this week ? That should help the running game. Montgomery seems to be way too slow when he stops and tries to change direction.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Starting him with confidence this week. He’s got RB1 written all over him.
• Travel to England seems harder on defenses than offenses. Maybe I’m off here (and I admit I’ve not researched this) but IIRC defenses have struggled going overseas on that turf.
• Bears QB2 will need to hand it off early & often if the Bears want to have a shot at a win here.
• Raiders may be without Tyrell Williams (foot)! helping an already dominant Bears D keep them in this game. Raiders should struggle mightily to put up points with only Waller as their weapon.
• Montgomery has looked like the best RB on the team consistently & I think the Bears know that this is the game to feature him.
• Raiders defense isn’t very good.
Spitballing here; but Monty is my RB2 this week. Hopefully I’m right.
• Travel to England seems harder on defenses than offenses. Maybe I’m off here (and I admit I’ve not researched this) but IIRC defenses have struggled going overseas on that turf.
• Bears QB2 will need to hand it off early & often if the Bears want to have a shot at a win here.
• Raiders may be without Tyrell Williams (foot)! helping an already dominant Bears D keep them in this game. Raiders should struggle mightily to put up points with only Waller as their weapon.
• Montgomery has looked like the best RB on the team consistently & I think the Bears know that this is the game to feature him.
• Raiders defense isn’t very good.
Spitballing here; but Monty is my RB2 this week. Hopefully I’m right.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Didn’t look slow when a change of direction resulted in his longest play of the season last week.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
big game coming v,. Raiders. he had 21 carries last week. it just feels like he's about to bust lose. they HAVE to run with Chase at QB.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Kyle has been terrible this year. His body is giving out. Hurts to say but it's almost been better without him.
-X-
Footballguy
I was mostly referring to the second half of the game vs. MIN and even vs. WAS & DEN. You know, when we were trying to milk the clock. That has been the pattern when we get the lead.
He’s been getting bigger chunks earlier in games. You can watch again to see what I’m talking about. Clear as day.
The bottom line is, if Nagy doesn’t spread the defense out more often and get Monty into space instead of pile ramming, it’s going to stay this way.
-X-
Footballguy
To be fair, nobody has played on “that turf” as Tottenham Stadium is brand new. Perhaps you meant “that style of turf.”Starting him with confidence this week. He’s got RB1 written all over him.
• Travel to England seems harder on defenses than offenses. Maybe I’m off here (and I admit I’ve not researched this) but IIRC defenses have struggled going overseas on that turf.
• Bears QB2 will need to hand it off early & often if the Bears want to have a shot at a win here.
• Raiders may be without Tyrell Williams (foot)! helping an already dominant Bears D keep them in this game. Raiders should struggle mightily to put up points with only Waller as their weapon.
• Montgomery has looked like the best RB on the team consistently & I think the Bears know that this is the game to feature him.
• Raiders defense isn’t very good.
Spitballing here; but Monty is my RB2 this week. Hopefully I’m right.
Bears don’t need to be (and shouldn’t be) one-dimensional. Daniel completed 73.3% of 30 passes last week against a much better defense. They need to be balanced.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
“England” is what I meant. It’s different I’m on a roll, let it go.
IMO they need to be more run-heavy. The Bears did well last week with a balanced offense. But they also failed to control the clock, which has been their bane all season.
I just had this discussion with a Bears fan friend & we agreed - their defense gets winded from spending too much time on the field because they get too cute with the passing game. It’s allowed opponents to stay in games way too long, and by the time the 4th rolls around the D is less effective.
For the Bears to be a winning football team they need to lean on that defense, but that also means ball control & giving the D a chance to rest. IMO that means ground & pound. Take some shots with PA off of that, sure. But they have a bruiser who seems to get better as opponents wear down - they should use him that way.
